Rice rockets and gas guzzlers.

[ethan]

WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

Ok, just kidding. I'm new to the board and wanted to stir things up a bit (or at least try). I know that everyone wants to have pride in their car, especially if it's an American built classic. But I wonder why there isn't more comraderie between the import tuners and the classic hot rodders? (Or is there, and maybe I'm just not seeing it?) We're essentially doing the same thing-- just dealing with different parts and engine sizes. Ok, so the import tuners do have a tendency to slap on really stupid looking body effects and an abundance of 'Neuspeed' stickers, but all that aside... it seems like there could be a lot to learn from each other.

I've got both a 66 Skylark and a 96 Nissan 200SX SE-R. My 200SX gets to 60 in just under 7 seconds and can toast many of the cars on the road. However, I fully love the American muscle-- my first car was a 78 Malibu 350/4bbl/4spd-- man that thing was fast. And the styling of my Buick is way cooler than my Nissan will ever be.

What do you think? Will we ever just get along? Or are we destined to trash talking for years to come?

(Ok, ok, so the trash talking is actually fun-- when I'm driving my Buick I tend to loudly blow by Acuras and Hondas, and when I'm driving my Nissan I often zip past stock Camaros. Yadda yadda.)

[GSXMEN]

ethan said:

What do you think? Will we ever just get along? Or are we destined to trash talking for years to come?



You've got a better shot at getting these guys to buy Chevies!!:Brow: :grin:

The big difference between us is in attitude. Alot of the 'ricers' are going for 'the look' and nothing to back it up. Here, it's more like, "speak softly, and carry a BIG stick"...

I've never seen a Stock Appearing ricer run in the elevens! I've also never seen a GS weave in and out of traffic across 3-4 lanes, with no blinkers on...:rolleyes:

Not trying to 'scare you off', of course!:grin:

[ethan]

Yeah, I agree with you there. I will NEVER, EVER put some stupid wing on the back of my Nissan. While I can't even come close to understanding their aesthetic choices, I still think it's cool that they enjoy modding their cars-- even if it is to just put some ugly clear lens covers on their taillights.

But you're right-- living in L.A. I've seen more import tuners driving crazy on the freeways than anyone else. But on the other hand, I do remember being somewhat reckless at age 16 in my Malibu!

[CyberBuick]

I've also never seen a GS weave in and out of traffic across 3-4 lanes, with no blinkers on...

Hmm.. Haven't ridden with me enough then... :shock: :puzzled: Bill knows tho... :Brow:

I think GSXMEN (Scott) has it right when he said ricers go for the look without anything to back it up where-as we speak softly and carry a huge stick.

Another peeve with ricers is they are so hyped up on Nawz and crap, that they're all a laughing stock. They 'think' they're fast because of all the stickers & wings and besides, how could your 2+ ton 30yr old boat beat their 1000lb 4banger with fartpipe exhaust that to be honest, even sounds sissy.. I can't help but laugh when I hear one.. And to think, they actually paid for that option..

Not to mention the traffic hazard they pose while on the road zipping in and out of any available space. They're kinda the opposite of SUV drivers.. Ricers take any available space, suv drivers make their own space.

I'll step down now and wait for the hate mail.... :rolleyes:

[69GS400s]

What gets me - clearly stated in my post about Shamoo recently humiliating a ricer - is that they Think their rides are Bad-Ass racers !! Granted, some are fast....but to drive a Euro-Can with at least 3-5K in Mods in it, and then get sorely beaten REPEATEDLY by a totally stock 1994 Roadmaster Station Wagon with 137,000 miles should give them a hint !!!

It doesn't.....they do the Ricer Fly-By......and go on thinking they're the Kewlest Thang on the Planet:Do No:


This I dont understand

[Freedster]

GSXMEN said:
I've never seen a Stock Appearing ricer run in the elevens!

They're out there, you maybe haven't noticed them because they appeared stock. They are in the minority, though. Some would probably contend that "stock appearing" and "ricer" were mutually exclusive terms too, but that's open to some interpretation.

I guess it depends on the crowd they hang with. Through the Eagle Talon list I used to be on, there were pretty distinct factions: guys that liked show, and guys that liked go. The drag racers, especially the guys with sub-12-second cars, were generally as disdainful of the kanji-sticker-fart-pipe-ugly-wing-white-taillight look as we are. The guys with fast street cars generally didn't want to draw attention to themselves. There was one guy on the board with a sub-10-second AWD car that looked completely stock aside from a slightly lowered suspension and a front-mounted intercooler. I think that he liked the stealth look, and I think it might have helped him out a little when he street raced for money too.

My favorite import sleeper is one that made it to Sport Compact Car magazine's "Ultimate Street Car Challenge" last year. It was a Hyundai Tiburon (!!!!!) that the owner had built for street racing, and it packed quite a surprise. I won't ruin it for you, but here's some links to the article that talk about the events it won:

Dyno Run
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0203scc_uscc6/

Drag Strip
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0203scc_uscc9/

Gross Display of Horsepower
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0203scc_uscc13/

Now that I think about it, I guess I would contend that the reverse of your statement is probably true too. I've never seen a riced out street-legal import car that ran in the elevens either, at least not in person.

- Freed

[Shortymac83]

Some cars are quick from the factory. I think supras can make mid 14's straight off the showroom - not much slower than a new Camaro and just 2 seconds slower than a Z06. Not bad. If I was gonna get an import, it'd be the Skyline. man are those cool!

[Ken Mild]

QUARTER-MILE TIME
RANK CAR TIME POINTS NOTES
1 Hyundai Tiburon 10.96 sec. 100 Holy mother of God
2 Nissan Skyline GT-R 11.99 sec. 91 AWD burnouts are cool
3 Ford Mustang 12.19 sec. 90 At home
4 Toyota Supra 12.77 sec. 86 Bog zoom
5 Toyota MR2 13.09 sec. 84 Mr. Two smoking tires
6 Datsun 510 13.15 sec. 83 Mr. K's wet dream
Nissan 300ZX 13.19 sec. 83 Mr. K's damp dream
7 Ferrari F360 Modena 13.29 sec. 82 Enzo's wet dream got stomped
8 Nissan Sentra 14.34 sec. 76 Should have launched in second
9 Acura Type R 14.75 sec. 74 Autocross cars don't drag race

0-60 MPH TIME
RANK CAR TIME POINTS NOTES
1 Hyundai Tiburon 3.33 sec. 100 Didn't even squeal a tire
2 Nissan Skyline GT-R 4.11 sec. 81 Clutch of the century
3 Ford Mustang 4.31 sec. 77 Feather throttle all the way
4 Toyota MR2 4.86 sec. 69 It's light
5 Toyota Supra 5.02 sec. 66 Turbo lag
6 Ferrari F360 Modena 5.09 sec. 65 Paddleball
Datsun 510 5.13 sec. 65 Mr. K's damp dream
7 Nissan 300ZX 5.26 sec. 63 Old suspension equals bad launch
8 Nissan Sentra 6.49 sec. 51 Too much power, too little tire
Acura Type R 6.49 sec. 51 Still an autocross car


Wow, 3.33 60 foot and didn't squeal a tire? So much for FWD getting no traction. :Dou:

[Leviathan]

...well, not all Importers are evil, not all Musclers are quiet. I've had some great chats about dynamically tuning the HKS codes in a Supra. There's a lot of smart racers out there building imports. these guys talk racing though.

Bragging about your great expensive car and all your brilliant skills is still just transparent blustering - no matter what you drive. It's pride, not performance.

If looks and bragging with friends are what you enjoy, great, go nuts. I admit it makes them entertaining prey.

That applies to US as well...

It takes a certain kind of person to build a car that's "different" not trendy. A lot of Buick builders are sportsmen, we're here to discuss how things work, not brag about our recent purchases. Let's put it this way, I've met only 2 Buick jerks.

Status does not equate to "nice", cash does not equate to "smart", and looks do not equate to "beauty" in my universe. I'll ignore the trolls and go back to my EFI designs.

Do Import racers and BBB racers get along? You bet.

Will ricers and racers get along? Sure... we always enjoy fresh meat.

...just my two tenths.

[ethan]

Yeah... I'm excited about working on my 'Lark, as well as my 200SX SE-R. In a way, my two cars are sort of similar-- both very unique, you don't see too many of them on the road, and they are both fully tweakable. I can't wait until I drop a bigger powerplant in my 'Lark so it can finally toast my 200SX! :)

[sixtynine462]

Wow, 3.33 60 foot and didn't squeal a tire? So much for FWD getting no traction.
that would be 60mph, not 60'... a little bit of difference there!

[Ken Mild]

sixtynine462 said:that would be 60mph, not 60'... a little bit of difference there!

:Dou: :Dou:

Yep, you're right.

[11SecondGS]

Becuase they make stupid Generalized statements like:

"Our 4 cylinders are smokin v8's"

makes me laugh, hey buddy come smoke my v8

[brblx]

it all depends on the mindset.

i know a guy who is big into imports and drives a honda daily...but it is totally stock and not riced at all. it's just a commuter and he knows it. he can discuss imports and i can discuss v8s and we'll both simply nod our heads to each other...no hostility becuase there's no BS. we like what we like, and since i know he isn't talking out his ass i don't give him any grief.

other times, i just don't know. a friend on mine is big into 'racing' his stock-drivetrain vtec accord with something like a whopping 130hp. i remember the time a stock cavalier challenged him to a 'race'...that must've been the saddest display i've ever seen.

[BigBadBuford]

I'm also into Buicks and Nissans, I have a '72 Skylark and I've had a 240SX and now have a 350Z. Most of the import crowd - your usual fart-can, euro-tailed POS owner is usually a real jerk, but the owners who are into performance usually appreciate any car that is fast. I think you still have your bickering over FWD vs RWD and HP/L vs displacement arguments, but when they know what they are talking about they are still fun to talk to.
Although the ricers do it more than us, I've still seen some Buick owners drive pretty recklessly at times (me included). Right after I put my 455 in my Buick, I ran into an '80s Regal (I don't think it was a GN), and we were sort of screwing around and he passed me on the shoulder pretty quickly which I don't really consider a smart move. Fortunately, with Buick owners that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

[Poppaluv]

O'K so I've got this beater of a Hyundai Accent.Dead # 3 cylinder,banged,battered,bruised. No good to me anyhow, and I was wondering what I could do to make a statement about how KOOL my car could be. So this is what I've done. I grabbed an old ironing board and mounted it legs up over my rear trunk with 2x4 spacers. (I figure the more I extend the legs up the more downdraft I'll see-right?). Then I took an old Foldiers coffee can and tack welded it to my muffler.:laugh:But it doesn't sound right. Would you believe I drove this car (can't go over 35mph) to our lakefront in New Orleans to show the ricers out here that with some homemade inginuity my car could be as kool as any Neuspeed and ARP stickerd Focus. When I showed up some laughed at me:mad:Can someone tell me why?

P.S. I'ts true and when I give my G.F her digital camera for X-mas I'll post the pictures :Dou:

[RebelShredMojo]

Im pretty cool with the whole ricer idea...with cars like 300ZX,Supras,VR4s, WRXs....the PREFORMANCE ones. However, most of the ricers dont have those, They get a Civic put exhaust on it, and think they can beat anyone on the road. Alot of them make a point to tell everyone that. The reason most of them street race, is they cant back up thier ****talking at the track.
Hell, Theres a couple at our cruise spots..they will usually rack off thier Folgers cans at us, But, Get beside em at a light...they usually turn.
What bothers me the most though, is that they say its cheaper to fix up an import over a domestic...So many of em them do a $5000 engine swap....for like 50hp....Wheres can buy a 430hp 350 Chevy for $4k..with a warrenty. Not to mention compare prices on bolt on parts...I still have yet a ricer explain thier logic of that statement to me

In the end though..We've got the faster cars, so thats really all that matters :TU:

[lostGS]

I have been trying to deal with a delema. The delema of spending my income tax on a 280 HP 73 GS 455 with class and potental of more HP per $$$$.

OR


spend the same or more building my 2002 Ford Focus wagon with a 130( rated) 4cyl and maybe get 150 Hp out of it with mods.



What do you think I will do?????????


Keep my Focus as my work car and buy the GS, DAMN RIGHT!!!!!!!!

even thou I drive a tuner car I still believe that the older muscle can eat any Rice on the road. I cannot stand 99% of the Riceboys. They have this holier than thou attitude, ( my car is faster than yours) It could be a documented 8 sec car but Rice boys think there 150 Hp Honda is faster. Hell my wife loves to beat ricers in our 89 crown vic. I cannot wait to get my GS so I can play with all the rice boys in town. I get a stead supply of new rice here because I live where Wyoming technical is so every 6 months or so we get a new in flush of a$$holes.


Tim

just waiting to play

[AZ-69 Skylark]

It seems my theory about Nissan owners is panning out. They love underdogs... and Buicks when they learn about them.

I have a 2000 Nissan Sentra SE and a 69 Skylark and I love them both. I hate ricers and think that stealthy or understated looking is just right. To cast invectives at imports or "old, inefficient" gas guzzlers just because it makes one feel superior is stupid.

Imports are a different creature alltogether and a blast. I still love the simplicity of our Buicks tho. Being the underdog is nice because most of the idiots leave you alone. It's twice as nice when you beat them too.

Ethan, you're lucky with your 200SX. You can get a nice turbo kit for it from Jim Wolf Technology. You even have a pretty good aftermarket for your car too. As for mine, well...

BigBad, I would flame you for selling your 240SX ( well not really, but I would LOVE to own one myself), but you got a 350Z (drool) and I cannot argue with your choice. According to a local guy who was at the earlier parts of the new Z's track testing, they considered turboing it but changed their minds. Talk about a retarded decision. Instead of creating another legendary car they made a great, but lesser car. The 300ZX is revered for a reason and it isn't because of the naturally aspirated version. I think the current Buick and Nissan execs are cut from the same cloth. BTW I'm not ripping the new Z, just Nissan's lack of vision. I wouldn't say no to owing one myself.:pp

[RATROASTER]

My Gen-X college buddies are always riding me for my old man Buick............until I step on it.............then they are rubbing their sore necks the next day. It takes brains and smarts to run a muscle car. They are high maintenance. You have to keep after your car. On the other hand, rice burners and newer cars can run extended periods of time with minimal maintenance. I'd say three quarters of my college buds don't even know how to check their tranny fluid and another half have can't change a flat tire!!

Alot of Gen-Xers are afraid to ride in muscle cars. I've had freinds that won't ride in my '67...........too dangerous. No shoulder belts, No air-bag, too much power and that car had a 350 and airport gears!!

I don't know what older guys' perception are of kids in their mid 20's owning muscle cars, but being a Gen-Xer and owning a muscle car is kind of different. For me, I enjoy having the ratty car with the clanking fenders and the rattling interior with the killer motor that smokes newer cars........just because I enjoy the perception of being an underdog!! Kids my age have no idea what real power is. They have absolutely no idea, none at all. Their ignorance always guarantees a few kills for me and the cocky ones really build self esteem once you smoke 'em!!:laugh:

[AZ-69 Skylark]

RR, I may only be 29 but you are dead on about these kids not knowing what real power is about. I look at the BBB as being a Cleidsdale(spelling?) horse, while the pumped up imports are like the Arabians. Different animals, but a lot fun.

[John Eberly]

This debate has been going on FOREVER - there was TONS of trash talk when the big 3 brought out musclecars in the '60s and the old time HOT RODDERS with their thirty year old iron made fun of the wheels, tires, spoilers, graphics, and chrome tips....

Hmmm - sound familiar??? "Damn kids don't know anything, more money than sense, and would you LOOK at THAT THING!!!" See, the "new kids" from 1970 are now the "old men" and we're yukking it up at the stupid youngsters who think they're hot s**t when they can get 100 hp out of their CRX with headers - "just wait 'till I get my NAWWZZ!"

I think that the sixties-seventies musclecars were the HIGH WATER MARK for performance cars, but that's just 'cause they were the COOLEST when I was a teenager. They are crude compared to modern cars, just like an A-V8 rod is compared to a '70 GSX.

I just hope that the future of personal transportation is COOLER than the past - onward and upward!!

[NJBuickRacer]

The only imports I really look out for are the quiet ones. I'm known to hit the local street racing scene on occasion, I usually bring out the Vette. Most of them won't even try, had a little bit of fun with the ones that would. The only races I could get for $ were all American iron. There's fast muscle cars, and fast imports too. I have seen a few musclecars with loud pipes and a 2-bbl 350 that couldn't get out of their own way. But at least it's built here. I personally will not have any part of a car that isn't built in this country. Some will argue that a few imports are built on U.S. soil, but where do you think the profits go? I also won't buy a car that isn't assembled in the U.S., regardless of brand name. Camaros built in Canada, Crown Vics in Mexico, I really wish that we would start taking some pride in our country and demand cars that are built here. I don't like sending profits over to a country that we went to war with about 60 years ago. Too many Americans died fighting for our rights, and here we are now sending money back to the countries that good Americans died fighting against.

[chryco63]

NJVetteGuy said: I also won't buy a car that isn't assembled in the U.S., regardless of brand name. Camaros built in Canada, Crown Vics in Mexico, I really wish that we would start taking some pride in our country and demand cars that are built here. I don't like sending profits over to a country that we went to war with about 60 years ago. Too many Americans died fighting for our rights, and here we are now sending money back to the countries that good Americans died fighting against.

Artie,

This is not intended as a flame, but please do realize that Canadians went to war with Americans 60 years ago as well, all for the same freedom. My uncle was a POW for over 9 months just like many other Americans were POWs. I also live less than 15 min. from the LS1 assembly plant in St. Catharines, and we have a family friend that works there. I can vouch that the Canadian plant builds a quality product. A fast car is a fast car no matter where it's built. That's not to say I like it when my Hot Rod is beat by a four banger, but it is humbling, and thus, such occasions have persuaded me to buy a new 3.55 Sure Grip and I'm also ordering a new cam... It's Hot Rodding, and it's what the hobby is all about. Though some ricers can't seem to figure that out!

:rolleyes:

And, yes, although some profits are going overseas, they don't call them The Big Three for nothing. :)

Happy New Year all!

[Leviathan]

NJVetteGuy said:Camaros built in Canada, Crown Vics in Mexico, I really wish that we would start taking some pride in our country and demand cars that are built here. I don't like sending profits over to a country that we went to war with about 60 years ago. Too many Americans died fighting for our rights, and here we are now sending money back to the countries that good Americans died fighting against.

Ummm.... we're at a 1.5 to 1 exchange rate (Meaning I work twice as hard for every US part I buy) and Canada trades with the US at a zero duty on wheat, lumber, cars, oil, and metals. It ain't a raw deal, Canadian labour is dirt cheap because of the exchange rate, but all US products are sold here at a 2x premium and we pay duty on everything WE buy. We could all cry foul, but in reality the arrangement is mutually beneficial.

As far as fighting spirit and determination over the last 100 years we've contributed an equal or greater %age of our forces. My family lost 28 of the 34 men sent to WWII. I happen to have spent 2 years in northern Canada working for DnD/DoD installing repeater towers for US radar stations during the Cold War. The 2 guys from my team killed when thier plane went into the Mackenzie Delta certainly paid the price to do thier part.

We're all for keeping our Classic Cars and V-8's, we'd love to see a RWD car back in the GM stable, and the racing crowd in Calgary has more than a few Buicks.

This is North America, you're not in this alone. Have some good `ol Canadian :beer with us while I race my US car and we'll call `er even :TU:

[RATROASTER]

Plus in Canada you can get Molson XXX!!:beer

[lostGS]

Accually the Crown Vic is built in the St thomas, onterio Canada assembly plant.
And the F-body is DEAD
Tim

[HoChiWaWa]

the youth of today is pretty dumb... i should know, at 20 i have lots of contact with them. i have watched people throw thousands of dollars into ricers, even get them pretty fast, but most of them just throw on the damn fart pipe and some stickers and the biggest most horrendous spoiler they can find and think they are the bees knees. the ones who know what there doing (at least the ones i know) usually stick to a sleeper look, not show off they're power untill they need to, no i can respect that. as for the rest of them, well i enjoy blasting through the suburbs and setting off the alarms in all the lil ricers they're daddies bought for them.
Not your average 20yo
Josh

[Smartin]

yeah...I'm 21 and I see all that crap driving around with the coffee cans coming out of their asses. Sometimes I just want to kick one of those cans in asnd see it cruch under my foot. That'll be interesting when the owner sees a toe-shaped crescent moon in his $3000 coffee can exhaust pipe. Hell, that might increase HP...or fart noise.

[Leviathan]

When a boom-boom stereo or farter gets too close I take great joy in revving up the 455 to drown out the noise.

Too bad they don't make a header valve you can operate from inside!

[Smartin]

JC Whitney makes a set of dumps that you can operate by cable from the inside. I would kill for a set of those just for that reason. It would shake the decals off those cars!!

[Dale]

Smartin said:yeah...I'm 21 and I see all that crap driving around with the coffee cans coming out of their asses. Sometimes I just want to kick one of those cans in asnd see it cruch under my foot. That'll be interesting when the owner sees a toe-shaped crescent moon in his $3000 coffee can exhaust pipe. Hell, that might increase HP...or fart noise.

:laugh: I saw in an ad for a local auto parts store in yeserday's paper that the ricer type can now buy a tail pipe that has LED lights surrounding it.:Dou:

[Smartin]

real cute...when are the mariachi horns coming to the market?

[AZ-69 Skylark]

It gets worse. They even have a fake intercooler and a device that makes a blow off valve sound. This is so people think you have a turbo. How pathetic.:blast:

[Eric Schmelzer]

Dale said::laugh: I saw in an ad for a local auto parts store in yeserday's paper that the ricer type can now buy a tail pipe that has LED lights surrounding it.:Dou:

I've seen these in Crutchfield. Stooooopid. Its amazing what people will put on there cars.

[Greg Schmelzer]

HoChiWaWa said:the youth of today is pretty dumb... i should know, at 20 i have lots of contact with them. i have watched people throw thousands of dollars into ricers, even get them pretty fast, but most of them just throw on the damn fart pipe and some stickers and the biggest most horrendous spoiler they can find and think they are the bees knees. the ones who know what there doing (at least the ones i know) usually stick to a sleeper look, not show off they're power untill they need to, no i can respect that. as for the rest of them, well i enjoy blasting through the suburbs and setting off the alarms in all the lil ricers they're daddies bought for them.
Not your average 20yo
Josh

Josh, a 20 year old that says "the bees knees"? You are right, you are not average:puzzled:

[Shortymac83]

I always have fun with ricers around here. They're usually stockers with a body kit and a thumper of a stereo. ugh. Even the Delta can smoke them and when I hit 2nd and 3rd gear, I'm gone, but they dust me in 4th. 60 and 1200rpm's are bad for that kinda stuff...

[gstewart]

clint:
back in the middle 60s, a friend of mine had a 58 pontiac, 2 dr ht with a juiced up 283v8 with a 4v & an auto trans. this car had dual exhausts & cutouts on the exhaust pipes that u could open & close from the inside of the car . when he dragged someone , he would open up the cutouts & race or if he drove thru one of the local small towns, open would go the cutouts . it was noisy.
i was present one night when he beat a 64 ford galaxy 500 390v4 4spd in the quarter mile . a 283 beats a 390 !
gerry
72 gs 350 ht #s

[edk]

i have one even better than that . the summer of `1969 in winnepeg canada they ran a 283 4 door impala against a 1968 HEMI charger in a heads up stock class and the 283 won easily.

[wkillgs]

I'd say that times really haven't changed...I grew up in the late '70's , early 80's....Back then we had the run-of -the-mill 307 Camaro's with the pro- stock hood scoop running 15's, as well as the sleeper's running 12's. Spoilers, 15 x 10 Cragers, M-50-15's, air-shocked rear ends jacked sky-hi, side pipes, stickers on the windows, glass packs, loud stereos, etc, etc. Same stuff, different times.....We had the Lookers as well as the Runners.....
Sure, our musclecars ruled the street for decades... The tides changed in the late '80's with the intro of the intercooled GN's....Yes, I came to that realization the first time my '66 GS got beat by a GN.... rather humbling, I should add....
Technology has caught up with the times, and has even pulled ahead of the previous restrictions concerning emissions, fuel economy, and political 'correctness' . Performance is back. Performance is cool again. Same stuff, different times, but in a different form. Deal with it!
I've also made a transition...a turbo SAAB. Fast (sort of) good on gas, cheap insurance, cheap parts, and replaceable (even disposable?). It'll never take the place of my GS's, but it fits the times. Any gearhead would appreciate a big-block GS, as well as a tweaked turbo-anything, as long as it runs!! Odd as it seems, there are a number of guys on SAABnet who also own GS's!! Why?...Performance!!
We're all car guys...The more things change, the more they stay the same!!...

[Leviathan]

:TU:

Some parking lots in town are lot of fun with a stock 455 exhaust. With open headers I could set off alarms from ground level!

The wheels are already turning on adding a set to the Wagon this spring...:Brow:

[GSmycarsfast]

I live in AZ and I cant stand Rice burners there everywhere and travel in packs that sound like swarms of bees driving by with there fart tips. Whatever happened to buying american cars and supporting our ecconomy no wonder it sucks so bad. I try explaining things to ricers boys i always tell them theres no substitute for cubic inches but they cant seem to understand what i mean or they try to say technology, ok technology well take the same technlogy and put that on a big block:grin:

Im sorry and im probably gonna lose a lot of friends but new cars just dont have any charcter to them they all look the same especially Jap Crap there all beer cans on 20 inches wheels as far as im concerned. Oh yeah and another thing NOS sucks. Bottles are for babies all throtle no bottle is the way to go theres more skill in makeing hp without NOS. Anyone cant bolt on NOS to there honda with a few adjustments but it takes skill and always a since of pride when you rebuild an engine and start it for the first time. So to everyone who likes Ricer Rockets:moonu:

[ethan]

GSmycarsfast said:Whatever happened to buying american cars and supporting our ecconomy no wonder it sucks so bad.

Anyone cant bolt on NOS to there honda with a few adjustments but it takes skill and always a since of pride when you rebuild an engine and start it for the first time. So to everyone who likes Ricer Rockets:moonu:

One theory behind the reason why people started buying Japanese cars was because in the 80s, a lot of American cars sucked big time. Take a look at Consumer Reports and you'll see that most Japanese cars in the 80s were more reliable than American cars. That explains why Chevy had to get Toyota to build the Nova and the Prizm. And they got Suzuki to build the Tracker. And they got Isuzu to build the Storm. That's why Ford got Kia and Mazda to build the Aspire and engineer the Escort. The Big 3 didn't know how to build smaller, fuel efficient, reliable cars, which is what more Americans wanted.

I don't think people who buy Japanese cars are un-American at all. I think GM, Ford and Chrysler were un-American in the 80s for building crappy cars and not paying attention to the market. Actually, I have no problem buying a Toyota Camry or Nissan Maxima (or a number of other Japanese-engineered cars) because they're built with pride here in America by Americans.

I think it comes down to attitude. There is no question-- the sleeper will always be much cooler than any flashy car. That's why I'm cool with Japanese cars and American cars, as long as the owner has some taste. It's fun to blow by unsuspecting Camaros in my Nissan, and it's also fun to rattle the nerves of some dork driving a lowered Civic with a fart pipe in my Buick.

The one thing that I think ruffles the feathers of some of the rocket-haters is that it's so much easier to mod a Civic or an Integra than anything else. There are a ton of companies that sell the parts. There are a ton of bolt-on solutions. Most of the mods that I see on compact cars are easy mods, not much skill involved. But if you know your ****, you can actually make a Civic incredibly fast.

[11SecondGS]

I have a 97 buick skylark. Its a piece of crap. No two ways about it. If it was built like my 72' GS, there probably wouldn't be a problem. Don't believe me, go to consumer reports and read the ratings of some of GM's finest.

:blast:

[GSmycarsfast]

Yeah well thats why all my cars are old, back when they made a car. I own a new dodge truck just to tow my other cars around but as far as buying new cars I dont. One thing is for sure they dont build them like they used to.

[Smartin]

You dispose of a new car when you're done with it these days. You don't rebuild anything. It's not worth dumping another $3000 into a car that's not worth half that.

That's why I like my tanks in the driveway....they just keep going and giong and giong.....

[msc66]

Yeh, ricers suck, but I also understand their existance. They are mostly daily drivers and you have to admit, that's what they're good for. Most of the kids that drive them either couldn't afford to have a muscle car at home in the garage or don't have the knowlege needed to build one.

Really, they are just modifying whats available to them and for this I blame the automakers. If there were affordable v8 rear wheel drive cars available then they would probably be modifying them.

In the 70's you had the van craze. You also had the 4 dr Plymouth with air shocks, N-50's and a hood scoop. These guys were like the majoity of ricers today... they weren't serious hot rodders. When these guys get older they'll forget about cars. The serious ones will either get into muscle cars, street rods, or will seriously race imports.

I equate the ricers of today with the hair metal bands of the 80's...loud, rediculous, and extremely popular but in 10 yrs they'll be as laughable as "Poison". So let the mainstream have their ricers and techno music. I'll take the rebelion of true underground rock & roll and V-8 powered hotrods anyday!

[GSmycarsfast]

msc66, very nicely said i agree with all except the part about v8 cars not being affordable. I would rather take a new mustang over a jap car and i hate mustangs with a passion. There are american cars with v8's that are affordable you just got to do research to find a car that would fit in your budget. But everything else i agree with you 100%.

[Da Torquester.]

I usually keep quiet on this subject but Adam you hit it right on the head. Your horsepower per dollar is much better spent on a 5.0 Mustang rather than a compact japanese car. In most cases a V-8 configured engine will always make more torque and horsepower than an inline four. The only four cyl. engine I see out there that makes any descent power and torque in stock form is the Boxter Four ( opposed four cyl.) that is in the Subaru Wrx and the inline four in the Eagle Talon. Just last weekend out at Pac. Raceways here in Seattle, I saw a Subaru Wrx run consistent low 13's all day. Most all the other ricers out there were running from 18's to 15's at best. :boring: :boring: V-8s (imho) just sound better. Who would want their car's sound to be mistaken for that of a bodily fucntion anyway?
John:)

[msc66]

Adam, Yeh, the Mustang. I didn't forget about it, but it is only one car. The 5.0 cars are plentiful and affordable and I do see a lot of younger guys driving them. Too many of them actually. There needs to be other options. There needs to be cars that someone with little knowledge or experience could go to the dealer pick one up and modify it and learn as they go. But, it needs to have the image and performance potential to lure them in.

People in general have a sheep mentality. Most of these guys are driving modified ricers because their friends are. Its a trend and like all trends this too will pass (although the SUV thing is lasting much longer than I hoped). What will the next trend be however depends on what is readily available to the masses. Build readily available, affordable, V-8, rwd cars and they will come.

The thing that really bothers me about the whole ricer thing is the reactionary way in which auto makers and after market suppliers are jumping on the band wagon. To me this threatens our end of the hobby more than anything else.

Oh well, maybe if we ignore them they'll just go away!

msc66

[Shortymac83]

MSC, you can get a decent fullsize BOPC coupe from the 70's and 80's for under $2,000. I rarely see even stock civics go for less than that. My car was $500, and by the time it was roadworthy, I'd dumped about $2,000. So $2500 for a decent car that I'd trust to California and back. It takes less knowledge to rebuild a carburated dinosaur than a VTECH thingy, IMO

[msc66]

Matt,
I know what you're saying and you speak the truth. However, you and I might see the potential in these cars but to the majority of the ricer crowd they're just old boats. To get them out of the 4 banger/front drivers they need access to something with a performance image that is of their generation. Something that can be driven coast to coast when they buy it and then they can slowly build it up and learn in the process.

That's all I 'm sayin'...but then what do I know?

msc66

[Shortymac83]

I see what ya mean. Maybe that's why Olds needed the phrase "It's not your father's Oldsmobile." They need a sporty-looking car. camaros and Mustangs are still pretty expensive, and G bodies are climbing into the stratosphere, especially turbo buicks. Cutlasses can still be gotten in decent shape for $4,000 for a 307 powered one.

[msc66]

Yeh man. The worst thing the big three ever did was to axe their mid-size rear drivers. A camaro or firebird could be hell for a young guy/girl to insure but a regal, monte ect. is just a passenger car right. Offer a sport package that is short on luxury items but offers good handling, nice wheels and a basic but peppy small V8 and you've got a great base for a fun but affordable modern hotrod.

Yeh, I know that they still make the monte but its dog ugly and its a lame dog dragging it self around by its front paws.
Come to think of it, Thats one of the reasons that I hate NASCAR. None of the cars even remotly resemble what comes off the showroom. If NASCAR would require that the cars be raced in the configuration the they are produced (if its a 4 dr front drive 6 cyl taurus then it has to be raced as such) then I'll bet the outcry from fans and racers alike would change thing pdq. If Nascar said that in 2 or 3 yrs they would enforce these rules you know that the big three would have new 2 dr, rear drive, V8 cars in their stable by then!

You know, they're really startin' to piss me off !!! (whew, I feel better know)

msc66

[ross]

Ken Mild said:QUARTER-MILE TIME

0-60 MPH TIME
RANK CAR TIME POINTS NOTES
1 Hyundai Tiburon 3.33 sec. 100 Didn't even squeal a tire
2 Nissan Skyline GT-R 4.11 sec. 81 Clutch of the century
3 Ford Mustang 4.31 sec. 77 Feather throttle all the way
4 Toyota MR2 4.86 sec. 69 It's light
5 Toyota Supra 5.02 sec. 66 Turbo lag
6 Ferrari F360 Modena 5.09 sec. 65 Paddleball
Datsun 510 5.13 sec. 65 Mr. K's damp dream
7 Nissan 300ZX 5.26 sec. 63 Old suspension equals bad launch
8 Nissan Sentra 6.49 sec. 51 Too much power, too little tire
Acura Type R 6.49 sec. 51 Still an autocross car


Wow, 3.33 60 foot and didn't squeal a tire? So much for FWD getting no traction. :Dou:

i had to register just to reply to this...
these numbers came from a sport compact car magazine "ultimate street car challenge" article.
that tiburon was not exactly a front-wheel drive. it did have an engine driving the front wheels, but it ALSO has another engine sitting in the back seat driving the rear wheels. yes, its actually all wheel drive. two engines, two (automatic) transmissions. both engines were turbo-charged and the car ran on methanol.
(i skimmed through the rest of the thread, but if i missed a similar reply already, i apologize)

[ethan]

Yes, that's very true... All of those compacts are HIGHLY modified... I can't imagine how much $$ went into those!

[skyphix]

I know this is an old thread but...

I'm interested in both. I'll take a RWD/AWD Import any day, I'll take just about any car pre-73 as well, and a select few 73 and later.

I.E. I've got my beater Honda, which may become a Beater Subaru 2.5RS depending on what job I can land for the winter.

Another Example: My contemplation to find a non-running 91-93 240SX and swap in a Turbo engine... 13 second car for a little under 3 grand.

Whats keeping me from doing these import-oriented projects? The up-and-coming 455 swap for the Skylark, as well as a small bit of frame rebuilding on said car.

[Sky72lark]

I've owned a Buick for the last 21 years consecutively, and I prefer them above all other cars, but I'm not ashamed to say I like my little 98 Mexican/German VW Jetta. Call it Mexican rice if you like, but other than going through a few power window motors/regulators, I love my Black, tinted VW as a daily driver. It packs a little punch for what it is. ALMOST every option available(PW, PS, 4 WHL DISC, SUNRF, SPOILER, CRUISE, ALLOYS, CD,DUAL PWR MIRRORS, REAR DEF, REMOTE TRUNK, 6 DISC CD, CASS, AM/FM,TRIP ODO,FOG LIGHTS, ETC, ETC except leather, heated seats , and V6, (STD GLX OPTIONS). BUT, VW offered plently of options that year.
Anyway, LOVE MY BUICKS, but also like alot my little 2 liter 5 speed.

[Ken Mild]

POPPALUV66 said:O'K so I've got this beater of a Hyundai Accent.Dead # 3 cylinder,banged,battered,bruised. No good to me anyhow, and I was wondering what I could do to make a statement about how KOOL my car could be. So this is what I've done. I grabbed an old ironing board and mounted it legs up over my rear trunk with 2x4 spacers. (I figure the more I extend the legs up the more downdraft I'll see-right?). Then I took an old Foldiers coffee can and tack welded it to my muffler.:laugh:But it doesn't sound right. Would you believe I drove this car (can't go over 35mph) to our lakefront in New Orleans to show the ricers out here that with some homemade inginuity my car could be as kool as any Neuspeed and ARP stickerd Focus. When I showed up some laughed at me:mad:Can someone tell me why?

P.S. I'ts true and when I give my G.F her digital camera for X-mas I'll post the pictures :Dou:


This thread has been going on forever and this is the first time I've seen this post. :laugh:

That is HILARIOUS! :grin:

I would LOVE to see pics of that! :TU: :Comp: :pp

[evil16v]

ethan said:WHY CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?


What do you think? Will we ever just get along? Or are we destined to trash talking for years to come?



Nope. Don't have any respect for each other.

[greensbuickfarm]

Guys,

No offense, but you're going about this the wrong way. If you want a nice little 4CYL FWD car, and you want a sleeaper of a Buick that will SUPRISE just about everything you encounter ('cept maybe my Turbo minivan...), then do what I did...

Take one 1986 Skyhawk Turbo T, add some 50 series tires and nice wheels (no 20s or anything like that), bolt on a Holset HX25 turbo and a big IC and a 2.5" exhaust through a race magnum. Not loud, not ricey, but hey! Mid 14s at 10psi on street tires anyone?

Jason

[lesabre]

Nothing beats American MUSCLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gr8ScatFan]

lesabre said:Nothing beats American MUSCLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

True.

Steve

[462CID]

Well here's the thing...I live in a major city. There are 'car clubs' around, and I'm sure some of them are actually populated by car guys, but when i see one of these club cars, with a sticker that covers the entire top half of the windsheild (no joke) or the whole rear window (again, no joke), it tends to stand out, and I notice what the car is and how the driver drives it. This doesn't mean only some members of some local clubs drive these cars, but they stand out more.

1) these clubs tend to really flaunt their membership. It's so in-yer-face it's a bit sickening
2) they tend to drive like jerks
3) when and if I (rarely) talk to these guys, they talk about mods, which tend to includ subwoofers and amps. I've got those things, too- in my living room. I consider a "mod" to be a larger throttle body, not a bit of stereo equipment.
4) when they talk about their "mods", they tend to include the cost of stereo equipment...ok, 15K in mods, but 10 of it's in the stereo and 5 of it's in the rims and tires! Which means you've got a stock car with an aftermarket radio and expensive wheels, to me. I say, "I spent over 5K on my engine" and they reply with, yeah, I got that in my stereo.
5) When I reply that I have mild "mods" which include higher compression pistons, 12 bolt positraction, and a street/strip distributor, they tend to look at me like I'm speakin' French. They reply with, "you gotta get bigger wheels!". No, no I don't. I need better heads and a new cam.
6) i go to auto parts stores, and I can clearly remember aisles devoted to performance parts...manifolds, tachs, distributors, cams....and now these aisles are replaced by, and I'm not kidding, aisles with names like "appearance performance" and "visual performance"
7) I've worked with carbon fiber for years...it doesn't belong on gearshift handles, steering wheels, or, for the luva GOD on an instrument panel- that stuff's conductive!!
8) when I pass a mid '90s hatchback on the road, I don't give one dead rat butt...but when they pull up next to me, they want to race. Sometimes if the guy seems to be on a goof, I'll floor it for a second, but usually, everyone seems to want to race, like we're on some grudge match showdown at high noon. Hey buddy! There IS NO you and me! We have no history!
9) Those exhaust tips...for Gosh sakes, what's with the exhaust tips?!?! I know a guy with a Stealth TT who needs an exhaust and is reluctant to get it done because he's worried the sound from his real performance exhaust will sound too much like these awful coffee cans...and I really can't blame him. It seems like these exhaust tips try to sound like a big V8, if you ask me...I've never heard a muscle car with a tinny exhaust, that tries to replicate an I-4's sound.
10) the guys that have real performance oriented imports find these things I've listed above just as sickening, more often than not.


I know that the car culture today revolves around the cars readily
available today, but I can't see how stickers of a little boy peeing on another brand's logo helps performance.

[Gr8ScatFan]

I don't get why they put that kind of stuff on their cars. It actually hurts performance. The body kits and wings add weight to the car and those mufflers reduce horsepower by about 20. If I was ever going to have a ricer I would put a turbo on it from Precision and not waste money on wings or body kits. When did looks become more important than performance. Lee Shephard must be spinning in his grave. The Buick GSCA modo is "Going Fast With Class" and I feel that we do that. But these clowns are going slow with class, well not much class either considering the way they are around other people cars. They talk about how their cars make more noise than any car around but that noise really sounds like someone farting in a jar. I was reading a magazine about the ways of the ricer owners and how they do things. There were points like Us: Installing a full cage after breaking into the 10's. Them: Installing a cage for more places to mount gauges. Us: Keeping a low profile and letting e.t.'s tell the story. Them: Hoping the body kit will disract anyone from discussing e.t.'s. Also has anyone seen the items they have to make horsepower. They spend 4000 dollars on a supercharger that makes 75 horsepower. A 6-71 makes 300 horsepower and its 2500 dollars. I just hope these import owners get smarter someday.

Steve

[KRD]

evil16v said:Nope. Don't have any respect for each other.


Well, as owning a 66 Skylark and 77 Trans AM plus a 95 Sonoma.

I feel as if I have respect for each class. My truck is I guess what you can call mildly euroed out. It is lowered 3", Has 17 " CenterLine Rims, a 40 series Flowmaster Exhaust (Cat cut out), and a performance clutch in it. I have the club sticker on my windshield, with other grafics. I have a 262 V-6 in it that is hopefully going to be rebuilt to suit twin turbos. (Had wing on bed cover but took it off)(You can see my truck with wing at link in my signiture)

Plus what is better than vibrating the car next, in front, and behind me with my subwoofer set up. It is so much fun to see the other people roll up there windows thinking they can escape the vibration.

Anyway lets get to the point. This is the technology of today, and it is just kids being kids. I should know, I'm 20. I'm sure when you were kids the adults hated the things that you did to your cars. It is call growing up in different eras. Luckly for me I also grew up around muscle cars, and that is what comes first to me. But my truck is also very fun to drive. Plus it is what the girls like. Awwwww...yes the girls.

[KRD]

oh, yeah...almost forgot.

If they want to go slow then let them and quit complaining. Who gives a rats butt, let them think they are fast, let me think my truck is fast. I would rather think that my truck is slow. Then I will not get any more speeding tickets. (Have 3 already)(Plus 3 warnings for noise pollution):grin:

[msc66]

This is what I don't get. Why is blasting someone out with your stereo fun? I've tried really hard to think if I or my friends did anything like this when we were 20 but I honestly can't remember anything. Our goal was to have fast cars. Sure, there were those with the airshocks and glasspacs but we all thought these guys to be idiots. Their cars were loud and tacky and slow. Much like the imports of today. Yeh, we street raced but the trick to having a good street racing scene was to not attract the attention of the police or the community. We also tried to be as safe as possible. Out of the way places and eighth mile runs were the rule. Nobody wanted to get hurt and we certainly didn't want to hurt someone else. We also didn't want to get caught.

Don't get me wrong, by 20 I was into punk rock and yeh, I stood out but I wasn't bothering anyone else and I didn't go around blasting "the damned" for three city blocks. It was my thing and I didn't fell the need to force it on others. Like I've said before, I understand why people have these cars today and that's fine for them but why the need to annoy those around you with it?:Do No: The cars don't bother me so much as the additudes of so many of their owners who seem to think their fart pipes, stereos, and poor driving habits make them cool because it bothers other people. What? Do they think they're some kind of modern day rebel biker gang or something? Give me a break :Dou:

[frtlnrbuick]

msc66 said:

Never underestimate the power of large groups of stupid people. :grin:

[462CID]

msc66 said: Do they think they're some kind of modern day rebel biker gang or something? Give me a break :Dou:

This is what I call the "I'm the most important person in the world syndrome". They are showing you, themselves, and anyone who's looking that "they own you" and are better than you are in some way. Appearance is King and as long as they make their statement loud enough and rudely enough, they are the "winners". This is directly proportionate to the attitude that says, "it's not my problem". As they would say, Nuff said.