455 Pans (Skylark)?

[john hixon]

Stef's, TA. Poston...

Anywhere else? I'm shopping for a deep sump race pan.

>>>First thoughts... Too XXXXXX expensive. :ball:

Thanks!

John

[LARRY70GS]

John,
In the GS Extra is an avertisement by SRE Performance fabrications. 7Qt. Oil Pans with baffles/ comes with new pickup and hardware 350.00 on exchange basis, 125.00 core charge. It says they are working on an aluminum fabricated oil pan for the Big Blocks, says to call for details. 920-684-6776, 2028 Meadow way, Manitowoc, WI 54220.

[john hixon]

Thanks for the lead Larry. I've seen their valve covers and the quality looks A1.

[cacmanjr]

I have been to their shop and seen their aluminum pans. A very nice piece with extremely high quality welding.

[Bruce Hunter]

Hi John, Steve Renolds is the owner of SRE fab. he is very detail oriented and meticulous in every way, if you ever see his gorgeous blue GS, you'll better understnd what I mean, Give him a call on his oil pans, I have seen them and they are top of the line pieces! I currently have his valve covers and they fit and look real nice! he can fab and orweld just about anything you need. HTH, Bruce

[Kerry s.]

Hi Guys,

John.....I can personally vouch for Steve and his business, SRE. I recently purchased a custom pan from him made especially for my Regal project. It's made for use with a block girdle and for clearing an un-modified crossmember. The quality is WELL WORTH the price to me!:TU:

Here's a pic of it on my block.....

[Kerry s.]

Here's a pic of the pan above with one of Steve's "regular" design pans......

[OUTRAGEOUS]

Kerry, those pans sure look good, probably a good weight savings over a Poston pan. how much oil do those pans hold? Randy

[rh455]

Does SRE have a website?

[Bruce Hunter]

Hey Reynold, I don't believe Steve has a website at this time, his ph# is posted above. and he runs an add in the GS-xtra as well.

Steve and his wife Debbie are two great Buick people to know, they are very detail oriented,and dedicated Buick enthusiasts.
Bruce

[dukec]

Kerry

Just looked at the pictures of your SRE pan - very cool.

But what is with the external oil line you have in the picture?

While you are building a race motor and I am just building a street motor - highly modified - I am wondering what is up with that line.

It looks like you are running from the spot in the block where the oil pressure sending unit screws in.

Where is it going in the back?

Thanks

dukec

:Do No:

[Tim S]

dukec said:Kerry

But what is with the external oil line you have in the picture?

Where is it going in the back?

:Do No:

if he's doing what i think he is, then i was just about to post a question about it.

i was scoping out the oiling system on my block yesterday, and i saw the tip on buickperformance.com about moving the oil pressure sending unit to the rear of the block. then i started wondering why i couldn't run an external line from the oil pump to the rear of the block, to pump oil through the driver side lifter gallery. it would be flowing against the current through the block, but i can't think of any reason why that would mess things up?

is that what it's for, Kerry?:Brow:

[Kerry s.]

OUTRAGEOUS said:Kerry, those pans sure look good, probably a good weight savings over a Poston pan. how much oil do those pans hold? Randy

Yes, the sheet aluminum pans are much lighter than the cast Poston's pan but I'm using a combination TA main/HALO girdles with the SRE pan so I'm sure it still weighs more.:grin: I've yet to actually fill my pan but I would think it's capacity is somewhere between 6 and 7 qts for it plus filter. The other pan pictured on the right I would guess to be at least a 9qt pan.:TU:

[Kerry s.]

dukec said:Kerry

Just looked at the pictures of your SRE pan - very cool.

But what is with the external oil line you have in the picture?

That is to directly feed the rear of the engine. There is typically a 5-10psi drop in pressure from the front to rear and this will help to equalize that.:TU:


While you are building a race motor and I am just building a street motor - highly modified - I am wondering what is up with that line.

ACTUALLY the engine pictured is for my driver Regal project! My Stage3 EFI Procharger'd race engine for my GS will use PAE's upcoming new 455 block as a foundation!:TU::TU:


It looks like you are running from the spot in the block where the oil pressure sending unit screws in.

Where is it going in the back?

Thanks

dukec

:Do No: :grin:

Yep that's right! All the oil galleries in the block that can benefit from it are drilled out. That paticular one is drilled out to 7/16" and is re-tapped to 3/8"NPT. A -8AN line is ran to the rear thru a bulkhead fitting above the starter then up to the pass. side lifter gallery. I drill this gallery out to 1/2" from the rear to meet the front portion that is already drilled to that. The factory "necked" it down to 3/8" at the center cam bearing journal in an attempt to boost pressure to the rear of the block. I also drill and tap and use a 4"X1/8"NPT long brass tube as my new pressure reference point. From there I use a "T" block so I can use both my factory guage (or "idiot" light) and a good quality aftermarket guage such as my Autometer Pro-Comp guages.

Here is a pic of the continuation of the new feed line to the rear as well as the new reference point...

[Kerry s.]

Tim S said:if he's doing what i think he is, then i was just about to post a question about it.

i was scoping out the oiling system on my block yesterday, and i saw the tip on buickperformance.com about moving the oil pressure sending unit to the rear of the block. then i started wondering why i couldn't run an external line from the oil pump to the rear of the block, to pump oil through the driver side lifter gallery. it would be flowing against the current through the block, but i can't think of any reason why that would mess things up?

is that what it's for, Kerry?:Brow:

Yep Tim that's correct!:TU: It's not going to "mess things up" if done properly. It does require that some clearancing on the block webbing be done back there so that everything will clear the flywheel/flexplate OK. As well as drilling and re-tapping of a couple of things. In this situation I would definately be sure and use an adjustable pressure regulator and use accordingly. Most importantly though (to me at least:Smarty: ) is that the crank feed holes in the main saddles of the block (#2-5) be drilled out to 11/32" (the front should already be 3/8") all the way to the lifter gallery to insure more oil to the rods. With all the drilling and tapping you'll be doing (whether doing the main saddles to the crank or not) this is definately not something you'll want to do without the engine being completely disassembled. If you don't already have a copy, be sure and get Steven Dove's (Jim Burek's the major contributing author for the V8 section) "how-to" Buick book "Guide to Buick Performance Engine's". Jim did a great job and it gives good illustrated pic's for you to see and work with. Definately good reading for even those of us who've been around Buicks for awhile! :TU:

[Tim S]

yep, got the book. some of it seems to go against the 'conventional wisdom' of the forum, but it's still very helpful.

what is the braided line in the left hand side of that last picture? where does it go?

[Kerry s.]

Tim S said:yep, got the book. some of it seems to go against the 'conventional wisdom' of the forum, but it's still very helpful.

what is the braided line in the left hand side of that last picture? where does it go?

That's one of the two "direct-to-the-pan" drain lines because I also have a filled lifter valley. In this pic you can see where they drain to each side of the rear main seal just inside the pan rails. Also look closely and you'll see the plates that fill the voids between the lifter bores. Notice too that there is an additional hole directly above the camshaft to further help in draining as this will be a street car.

[Tim S]

velly intellesting!

i've seen the picture of your lifter valley from above, and wondered where those drain holes go- now i know!

how did you drill the lifter galley out? foot-long drill bit?

and if you're completely re-routing the driver side lifter galley, are the grooved cam bearings necessary? seems like they'd be a common failure point in a high-lift cam, being so thin.



you've said before that you're running a 14+ qt oil supply in that thing, do these extra lines require that much more capacity?

sorry if i'm asking for 'Confidential- for Kerry's eyes only' info, i'm just naturally curious :Brow:

[Earick Racing]

We offer a Pro-Stock style aluminum pan.

[Kerry s.]

Tim S said:velly intellesting!

i've seen the picture of your lifter valley from above, and wondered where those drain holes go- now i know!

how did you drill the lifter galley out? foot-long drill bit?

Yes, I went to a local hardware store and picked up a foot-long 1/2" drill bit. I think it was around $15 (a few years back), TA Performance also sells a drill bit kit (part#2060 for $65.00) that includes the nesessary bits for the oil gallery enlargement. It includes 5/8",1/2" and 17/32". They also stock a 9/16" too. All but the 17/32"(6") has a 12" shank.


and if you're completely re-routing the driver side lifter galley, are the grooved cam bearings necessary?

I'm not "completely re-routing" just splitting the feed so that it's feed from both front (as normal) and rear so that the oil "meets" midway in the block and thus should equalize pressure (hence....no drop as it normally does from front to rear). I still use the grooved cam bearings.


seems like they'd be a common failure point in a high-lift cam, being so thin.

They are a "much better than stock" material and design. I've never had a problem with them. That being said......MANY other Buick racers are using MUCH bigger cams (rollers) and spring pressures than I and I've not heard of any problems.


you've said before that you're running a 14+ qt oil supply in that thing, do these extra lines require that much more capacity?

Actually what you are seeing here is for my Regal project. The 14+qt stuff I've talked about before is on my GS with a Moroso 3qt Accumulator, -10AN lines and a System1 remote filter along with a TA 9qt pan. All the lines and such give me that kind of capacity. As far as the Regal, I'm not to sure how much (if any) of this stuff I will add to it as it is just intended to be my driver.:Brow:


sorry if i'm asking for 'Confidential- for Kerry's eyes only' info, i'm just naturally curious :Brow:

There's nothing "confidential" about this stuff. Most of this was/has already been done to one extent or another before I did it. I don't really take any credit for this. Especially the filled valley, or the oiling modifications. Just things I've learned over the years.:TU:

[BQUICK]

Kerry....how does the front attach to the timing cover? I had to use silicone on the Stefs pan due to the reversed front lip.

Bruce

[Buicks4Speed]

Hey Kerry, are you going to put a vacuum pump on your motor?
I see you have your lifter galley epoxied but I can't see enough to notice any openings for crank case ventilation other than the drain backs.
What kept you from tapping the side of the filter plate by the bypass for an oil feed to the back of the block. I was told there was better pressure and volume there than at the side of the block and it wouldn't take away as much from what your sending to the front of the block? Then you would have the pressure port available for a guage. Just compairing information and curious. What do you think?:Do No:

[Kerry s.]

BQUICK said:Kerry....how does the front attach to the timing cover? I had to use silicone on the Stefs pan due to the reversed front lip.

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

If you look closely at the pic you'll see I've got a TA main girdle so there is the spacer that the pan bolts to and which in turn it bolts to the timing cover. Steve (SRE) did have to modify his design for me because of the fact I'm also using TA's Halo girdle. By reducing the front depth of the pan to clear my crossmember and steering linkage it then needed notches added to clear the Halo. I'm not quite sure I know what you are referring to by "the reversed front lip"?:Do No:

[Kerry s.]

Buicks4Speed said:Hey Kerry, are you going to put a vacuum pump on your motor?
I see you have your lifter galley epoxied but I can't see enough to notice any openings for crank case ventilation other than the drain backs.

Hi Rick,

Yes I do plan on adding a vacuum pump. If you look closely you'll see that the foundation for the epoxy is first AM&P's Lifter Valley Girdles steel plates that I very closely contoured for a low, tight fit. In each of those plates I've drilled and tapped and fitted STEF's Valley Breather Tubes. Also the front of the engine, behind the timing chain I've drilled (2) 5/8" holes for draining on deceleration as well as vents for the crankcase.



What kept you from tapping the side of the filter plate by the bypass for an oil feed to the back of the block. I was told there was better pressure and volume there than at the side of the block and it wouldn't take away as much from what your sending to the front of the block? Then you would have the pressure port available for a guage. Just compairing information and curious. What do you think?:Do No:

With this going into a Regal there is not near enough as much room as in the earlier Skylark/GS chassis. That was my main reason for doing as I did plus the fact that I really don't think it makes that much of a difference. :Do No: I've just gotten into the habit of taking pressure from the rear of the block as to me it's going to give you a more accurate assessment being the farthest from the pump. This may not be the way others do or would do it but it seems to work good for me.:TU:

Here's another pic of the full lifter valley showing the breather tubes......

[Kerry s.]

Here's a pic of the front of the block showing the drain/pressure relief holes behind the timing chain.....

[Buicks4Speed]

Hey Kary,
Looks good.:TU: My #6 an line was a bit close in the back in relationship tp the flywheel. What did you do to get your #8 to clear. The place you picked to get the pressure was cool. I was asking about taking pressure off the filter plate verses the side of the block. If you've got the pressure it really doesn't matter, just thought I 'd bring up the topic to through it out on the table for conversation purposes, not to knock your craftmanship.:Brow:

[Kerry s.]

Hi Rick,

That actually took me several tries (and hours) of a combination of tapping deep enough to almost fully seat the 3/8"NPT to -8AN fitting into the block and cutting down the NPT part to shorten it up so it doesn't interfere with my pressure pick-up point. Plus the fact of the necessary grinding/clearancing of the block webbing back there.

I understood what you were saying and took no offense what-so-ever. I too believe that more than one approach should be explored.:TU:

BTW.....I wish I had the funds right now for your Moroso Vacuum Pump set-up :(, that looks like a really good deal to me!:Smarty:

[Buicks4Speed]

I bet it took some work to get it to fit.:blast: Its pretty tight back there. I went the easy route and put a #6 in it. Much less headache........................Unless you count the time when the pipe fitting broke off flush in the block after it was in the car right after I got it started.:blast:
I'm attaching a pic of my current front plumbing setup.

[Kerry s.]

Rick,

Your set-up there looks real good!:TU: What's that -12AN line for, evacuation straight from the crankcase to the header collector maybe?:Do No: If so I bet you are also running one out of the fuel pump cover plate on the opposite side too? I been thinking of running one there myself connected directly to a vacuum pump.:Smarty:

[Jetstar I]

Hey Rick is that a girdle I see sandwiched between the pan and block?

Ante

Hey Kerry, Chili sez you're an OK guy......its just too bad you like Buicks, LOL!:grin: :moonu:

[Buicks4Speed]

The #12 line you see is a External pickup I made with an in-line Moroso pick-up filter that goes directly to the top of the pump over the gears from the pan. The block has a plug in the original pickup passage and there's an additional plate where the pickup tube mounted to. The in line filter is a very coarse screen that take place of a screen in the pan so I can monitor it to make sure it is not getting clogged with any type of debris-rtv, bearing metal, ect.

Yeh, there's a girdle there and a halo girdle on the inside with a bunch of other tricks.:Brow:

The #12 line for my vacuum pump comes off the back of the intake and there's a relief valve on the valve cover.

[Buick]

Rick, can you tell us more about the pick-up filter mod? It sure is a better place to spot large debris. Thanks.
Ramin

[Kerry s.]

Hey Kerry, Chili says you're an OK guy......it's just too bad you're into Buicks,LOL:grin: :moonu:

Oh Yeah Ante.....too bad:Brow: :laugh: :Brow:



The #12 line you see is a External pickup I made with an in-line Moroso pick-up filter that goes directly to the top of the pump over the gears from the pan. The block has a plug in the original pickup passage and there's an additional plate where the pickup tube mounted to. The in line filter is a very coarse screen that take place of a screen in the pan so I can monitor it to make sure it is not getting clogged with any type of debris-rtv, bearing metal, ect.

Rick....sounds like a slick set-up there. I like the external in-line screen filter too!:TU:

[Buicks4Speed]

I made a tapered aluminum box inside my pan that is set up to savange 1/4" off the bottom of the pan. It connects to a #12 bulkhead fitting and goes through the passenger side of the oil pan sealed by "o" rings. A #12 line @6" long goes into the #12 moroso pickup filter #23860 then to another section of #12 line to a large #12 to 1" NPT 90 degree fitting that has been trimmed and welded to the top of the pump where it feeds directly over the gears. There is a small "box" that sticks out just above the gears on the front cover where the oil intake passage is. This box was ground off and opened up sufficiently then the fitting was welded on. I blocked off the stock passages with a plug in the block and a plate over the pickup tube mount. I believe AMP has a replacement lower plate kit that allows a #12 Feed line to go into it and also reduces restriction but my setup cost me under $100. The only thing I had to buy was the Moroso in-line filter. I got all the lines and fittings off of UH-1 HUEY helicopter's we were gutting out and turning in. They where throwing away all the braided lines so I thought I would make good use out of them.

[Buicks4Speed]

The oil pan.....

[Jetstar I]

Rick, did you weld your own sump to the stock pan? If so what mods did you do on the inside like baffles....

I've got a weird chassis and I have to make a bigger sump myself. I need some ideas and tips on how to do it.

Ante

[Kerry s.]

Hi Guys,

Rick......that set-up looks really good. Here's a pic of a swivel dual -12AN inlet that I recently picked up from Indy Head Service the last time I was over there. I plan on this being for my 'charged 475ci and coupled with the Peterson pump/vac unit. I also like the fact it has a "dorsal fin" to follow the oil for both acceleration and deceleration.:TU: Maybe this is something others (or yourself:Do No: ) have not seen due to it being basicly a Mopar item...

[BQUICK]

My Stef's pan has no provision for bolting to the timing cover. The oilpan lip goes back toward the motor rather than away as in a stock pan. What are people doing?? I just used silicone.

Bruce

[Buicks4Speed]

Kary
COOOOLLLLLL!!!!I want one!:TU: :Brow:

Bruce, I wish I could help. My whole bottom half of the motor is RTV'd together. The only problem is the little pieces that break off and get in the pickup screen. I can pick them out now with the external screen.:TU:

[GS Kubisch]

That 's the P/U that I got when I went to the "Scavenger" external system.
Oil pressure is always there,accel.,decel,whenever.
I did gain about 20 PSI with this system,I'm trying to figure the best way to "give back" about 15PSI as I think 90PSI through the traps at 6700rpm is a little too much.

Any idea's?

[Dennis Halladay]

Peterson has external pressure regulators, you could hook inline and route excess oil back into a non-pressure area. Fuel pump location would work well or tap into the side of the oil pan and route extra oil back there.

[Kerry s.]

BQUICK said:My Stef's pan has no provision for bolting to the timing cover. The oilpan lip goes back toward the motor rather than away as in a stock pan. What are people doing?? I just used silicone.

Bruce

Bruce......Do you mean it has an un-equal lip where it meets closer at the block/cover/spacer intersection and then gradually increases gap from there on out?? Like in this pic.....and as you can see this is without the pan gasket in place but the timing cover gasket is there.

[Kerry s.]

Buicks4Speed said:Kary
COOOOLLLLLL!!!!I want one!:TU: :Brow:

Bruce, I wish I could help. My whole bottom half of the motor is RTV'd together. The only problem is the little pieces that break off and get in the pickup screen. I can pick them out now with the external screen.:TU:


Rick.....That pick-up will put you back $125. The screen on it is removable too. Here's another pic of it...

[Kerry s.]

GS Kubisch said:That 's the P/U that I got when I went to the "Scavenger" external system.
Oil pressure is always there,accel.,decel,whenever.
I did gain about 20 PSI with this system,I'm trying to figure the best way to "give back" about 15PSI as I think 90PSI through the traps at 6700rpm is a little too much.

Any idea's?

Gary......where are you taking your pressure readings from, the front or the rear? Personally I'd be very careful there as my last Stage3 had what I considered "high pressure" readings too (in the high 80's/ low 90's BUT taken from the front and was with the HP/HV pump) and when I lowered it it wasn't long afterwards that I lost that engine.:ball: Does your Scavenger system use an adjustable regulator? Have you tried backing it out a turn or two? Only minimal results? What about the pressure relief spring you're using? Have you tried a weaker used one maybe?

Just throwing out some ideas....:Do No:

I think Dennis may have a good idea if you decide to leave all as is but you would want to meter it in some way and would probably only want to use no bigger than a -3AN line. :TU:

Hope something I've said is in someway beneficial...:)

[Jim Weise]

GS Kubisch said:That 's the P/U that I got when I went to the "Scavenger" external system.
Oil pressure is always there,accel.,decel,whenever.
I did gain about 20 PSI with this system,I'm trying to figure the best way to "give back" about 15PSI as I think 90PSI through the traps at 6700rpm is a little too much.

Any idea's?


:confused:

that sounds just fine to me...

I would not give back anything.. 70 psi is great for a motor that revs to 6..

JW

[BQUICK]

Kerry, no my front lip is not like that. It goes forward then back toward the motor ....no way to put bolts in other than coming thru the timing cover first after drilling and taping the pan flange.
This Stefs pan had been a nightmare since they fabbed it for use with a block girdle. I spent hours gring away alot of the side scrapers for clearance.

Bruce
BQUICK

[Steve Reynolds]

Hi everyone.
Once again I must apologize for not being up to speed on the web site. I only check the site when I have time and I didn't have much time lately.
I would like to thank Kerry S., Bruce Hunter and everyone else for their positve comments about SRE products. I am building a car for a local NFL football player, and it has been monopolizing most of my time. I still intend to supply products to any Buick people that need them. Unfortunatly it is taking longer than I originaly anticipated to do the R&D. I definitly want to do the products right the first time! I am working on several new products now, including a complete external oil pump system using the Peterson Wet/Vac pump. I am working with Peterson to develop some of the unique features needed for our Buicks. I will have this system on my car in Bowling Green. From there I hope to work out any bugs that might arise. This will also give more opportunity to do more testing of the fit and function of my oil pans.
Anyone needing fabricated steel or aluminum components should feel free to call. I love a challenge! Ph. 920-684-6776

Thank you all again!!! Steve Reynolds

[Adam Whitman]

I found this great thread while searching for info. I have my stage 2 going again and am now checking oil pressure at the back of the block.

Idles cold at about 50 PSI; hot(250*) at about 18PSI; oil pressure at 4000RPM(250*) is about 65 PSI with 5-30 Mobil 1 oil. Pressure limited to 70 PSI. It is set up tight, hence the thin oil.
Is that enough for a 494 that revs to maybe 6500?

Coated bearings looked perfect at last teardown. (except cam bearings, probably dead from 20-50 oil I tried using to help with oil temp issues. The dist gear was a giveaway). This is even with the pan heater I have on it.

Another hot-oil problem due to hard-block. Can anybody substantiate or dispell the "don't use an oil cooler on a Buick" story?

My last idea is to run water tubes that circulate coolant through the pan . My oil-pan capacity is now around 12 QT's.(it only delays the inevitable oil-temp rise)

[Weekender]

I made a tapered aluminum box inside my pan that is set up to savange 1/4" off the bottom of the pan. It connects to a #12 bulkhead fitting and goes through the passenger side of the oil pan sealed by "o" rings. A #12 line @6" long goes into the #12 moroso pickup filter #23860 then to another section of #12 line to a large #12 to 1" NPT 90 degree fitting that has been trimmed and welded to the top of the pump where it feeds directly over the gears. There is a small "box" that sticks out just above the gears on the front cover where the oil intake passage is. This box was ground off and opened up sufficiently then the fitting was welded on. I blocked off the stock passages with a plug in the block and a plate over the pickup tube mount. I believe AMP has a replacement lower plate kit that allows a #12 Feed line to go into it and also reduces restriction but my setup cost me under $100. The only thing I had to buy was the Moroso in-line filter. I got all the lines and fittings off of UH-1 HUEY helicopter's we were gutting out and turning in. They where throwing away all the braided lines so I thought I would make good use out of them.

Hi Rick

I have been reviewing all the oiling mod threads on the site since I haven't had a lot of success with the stock BBB system. In your setup, once you weld in the fitting bosses to the oil pump housing does it warp the pump housing so that it must be reconditioned? :Do No:

Larry Eaton aka Weekender

[Buicks4Speed]

I have been reviewing all the oiling mod threads on the site since I haven't had a lot of success with the stock BBB system. In your setup, once you weld in the fitting bosses to the oil pump housing does it warp the pump housing so that it must be reconditioned?

I didn't have any distortion in my housing but that doesn't mean that it can't happen. I believe there is enough material above the gears that you should be fine. The only think I had to do was clean-up the oil pump shaft guide. There was a small spot halfway down the guide that needed cleaned up. easy fix. :TU: