wrong or right pilot bushing?

[69 wag]

i have tried three different pilot bushings but can't get any of them in the back of the crank. why? bearing measures out at 1.093 but the hole in the crank is 1.071. the engine is a 455 1972-5. crushed the first two bearings. even year one specs the bearing at 1.093 od. the engine was apparantly out of an auto and i checked for a sleeve. been hung up on this for over a month. do these bearings have to be milled or do i just have the wrong ones. anyone have a part number. i've been using skfd656 which is supposed to fit all buick cranks from 64 to 81. please help. thanks
pete

[Brent]

The cranks are not finished to the spec for the pilot bearing. I have tried to turn down the pilot bushing to fit, but then had problems with 4th gear grinding. Come to find out the hole in the crank is not centered for alignment. Various companies such as dick miller sell a pilot bearing assembly that goes in where the automatic hub went. This area is centered and works well with the manual trannys. Good luck.
Brent

[PaulGS]

I had the same problem. I installed one of the conversion bearings that gets installed in the converter recess.

There were intermittent reverse gear grinding issues, and then the conversion bearing spun in the crank........ :Dou:

I ended up pulling the engine to have the crank machined correctly.

Come to find out the converter recess in the crank was not concentric. That caused my problem.

[64GS455CLONE]

After reading the post from Pete (69 WAG) on pilot bearings, and Brent response to the post. I would like to get intouch with Dick Miller's company to buy one of his pilot bearings for my 455 engine which i am going to install a 5speed trans in it next week. Brent or anybody else, will you please post Dick Miller contact info. Thanks for any help. Oliver

[Woodie]

Ok, if I get this wrong let me know. The Auto cranks have the hole for the bearing but... it is not finished to the proper dia. and not centered on the centerline of the crank... That would explain why I have destroyed 3 from TA. S#$T!!! Guess there goes trying to put the manual back in to the car (Not original engine). If its not one thing its another :Dou: :Dou: :Dou: ...

[64GS455CLONE]

Hey, (69 WAG) (Paul GS) (Woodie) or any body else that had a problem with the pilot bushing for the 455 engine when installing a 4 or 5 speed trans. Thanks to (Brent) who reply about his problem with different pilot bushing said to get touch with Dick Miller Racing.I call him today and he was away until the end of next week. When i get in touch with him i will let you all know about his pilot bushing he makes for the 455.Thanks again for all your post & replies. Oliver

[mainebuick]

man that is weird. You would think the hole in the crank would HAVE to be dead center, to machine the crank. how would that cause grinding in one particular gear?. The input shaft of a tranny doesnt move in and out. You would think that if the pilot hole were off center, it would wobble, and vibrate all the time.

[bobs67sky]

Hey, (69 WAG) (Paul GS) (Woodie) or any body else that had a problem with the pilot bushing for the 455 engine when installing a 4 or 5 speed trans. Thanks to (Brent) who reply about his problem with different pilot bushing said to get touch with Dick Miller Racing.I call him today and he was away until the end of next week. When i get in touch with him i will let you all know about his pilot bushing he makes for the 455.Thanks again for all your post & replies. Oliver
Hi Oliver, as i'm ready to start my conversion and trying to figure out the best route to go with the pilot bearing.I'm interested if you got in touch with Dick Miller .As i will be re building my motor i would have the option to turn my auto crank to the proper size for the brng.or use Dicks brng.If you have his contact info myself and others doing this conversion would appreciate it.Cheers Bob

[staged67gspwr]

Funny thing is on all 3 engines i`ve had behind my car(a 430,a 455 and the current 455)i never encountered this issue with the pilot bushing? :Do No:



Thanks

[69 wag]

hi all, i got my bearing from dick millar racing last week. havent installed it yet. just type in dick millar racing in google for all his info. i had my bushing in 5 days from where he is to northern bc canada. shipped us mail. i wont use ups because of all there bogus high broker charges.cheers pete

[64GS455CLONE]

Hi guys, Like (69wag) I got my bearing last friday from Dick Miller Racing. I won't be having my trans install until the week of the 21 of January.Hey 69 wag, when you get your trans install let us know how it work out.(www.dickmillerraceing.com)Phone (662. 233. 2301) Happy New Year To All.--Oliver

[Andrew]

So there are part numbers for stick cranks and auto cranks?
Not sure what the back of a 455 crank looks like. But...
Nailheads use a bushing that fits where the nose of the TC would be. Then the bearing fits inside that. Can someone verify that the trans input shaft was even reaching your pilot bearing?
Im hoping its this simple for you guys.
Best luck,
-a

[rjohns]

Just completed reading this thread and I can say I am really surprised!
So is the consensus that if you want to put a stick trans behind a 455 which virtually all were Automatic equipped 455 cars ,I have to machine the end of the crank to install pilot bushing ?
Buick machined a different hole for 4 speed cars??

[staged67gspwr]

I`m starting to think that all `73-up engines might of had the pilot bushing issue.

Thanks

[87GN_70GS]

When I put a '70 455 in my '70 350 4-speed car, I just put a pilot bushing in the back of the auto crank but didn't notice any issues. I have some cranks lying around I could look at to see if there is any differences.

[moleary]

As a rule, the crank should be machined for the pilot bushing. I always have the shop do it to any crank they work on for me so it can be used in any application.

I am curious about this Dick Miller bushing, any use it yet? I also would be suspect since the cranks generally require work for a proper fit of a standard pilot bushing if it was not a MT crank from the factory.

[GranSportSedan]

can anybody give me a part number for the Dick Miller pilot bushing? i went to his web site but a search turned up nothing. Bob

[87GN_70GS]

Looks like pilot bushings are being made wrong nowadays:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173124

HTH

[MPRY1]

Thats an interesting thread. Here I thought it was only us odd ball Buick gear rowers who were having these problems. They never mention if the roller bearing pilot bearings are the correct O.D....I wonder if they are?:Do No:

[greg davis]

I tried the roller version first with the same problem, then a bronze and again the same problem.

the bronze is a whole lot easier to modify and/or remove than the roller.

it is very interesting to hear the Chevy guys are having the same problem.

[87GN_70GS]

give me a part number for the Dick Miller pilot bushing?

Found this on Mondello's site:

http://www.mondellotwister.com/Transmission.htm

PB-460. HTH

[GranSportSedan]

The Dick Miller part is 39.00 plus shipping. I'll post pics as soon as mine arrives

[rjohns]

So what casting # /year of 455 blocks will have correct pilot bearing hole in crank?
Or just focus on early 455 blocks 70-72 that have machined hole for Z bar stud drilled and tapped already at back drivers side rear of block as good indicator for good block and crank.Those early blocks should have correct diameter hole in crank to accomodate pilot bearing for Muncie input shaft?
Thoughts/Input?

[GranSportSedan]

my 73 block was drilled and tapped for the Z bar stud but the crank was not drilled for the pilot bushing.

[greg davis]

Its doesnt appear to be the crank, it appears the O.D. of the bushing, especially if it is effecting other makes as well.

[Steve Schiebel]

You folks actually believe GM would have invested in machining separate cranks for AT vs. MT cars? I highly doubt that. I recently installed a TA Perf pilot bushing in the rear of my '71 Riv's 455. I did put it in the freezer overnight to shrink it. A thin film of lube and it tapped in hard using a length of hardwood (shovel handle) and mallet. No problems. The BW ST10 input shaft pilot also fit the bushing like a glove.

[PGBuick]

I have encountered several auto trans cranks on 300's and 455's that were not machined to accept the pilot bushing. I have successfully turned down the bronze bushing to a light press fit in the auto crank hole with no performance issues. From an engineering perspective, it makes no sense that the auto trans crank hole is not centered. It is a drilled hole that was most likely drilled on a lathe. It's centered, but it's the wrong size and may have a stepped ID.

[gs_jimmy]

My 1971 Stage 1 is drilled/tapped and the crank had the correct size hole (centered too!). Think I got the bushing from Y1 or GM (it was a GM bag), lubed it up and drove it into the crank.

Never had any vibration, shift problems so far.

Jim

[66skylarkpost]

the crank of the '73 riviera motor ( originaly auto ) i have in my stepside truck was cut but not completley to the bottom of the hole , only about an inch or so . being i used an adapter plate to mate up to the chevy bell and trans i used a extended length chevy racing bronze bushing http://www.jrmotorsports.com/product.cfm/productID/5159.cfm . a couple soft taps witha hammer usin a thin block of wood , it went in without any issues :Do No:

[87GN_70GS]

After picking thru my junk in the garage, I found the '70 crank I have has the bushing still in it so I didn't remove it. It was out of a big car w/auto. But I remember that years ago I did not have any issues with the bushing going in. The '73 crank is from a big car w/auto and is not drilled big enough. It is around 1.060" as near as I can tell, or about 0.030" too small. It is deep enough however. My '76 crank is big enough for the first .625" or so. Then it necks down about 5-10 thou or so. So a bushing would go in fine until about 0.125" was sticking out. Don't know if that is for extra clamp, or it is not machined properly.

My old bushing meaures 1.096" OD by .75" length.

[GranSportSedan]

my 73 crank was drilled deep enough just not large enough to accept the standard bushing. just for kicks i froze my bronze bushing and then forced it in to the crank with a BFH. then i tried installing my trans to see if the shaft would go in the bushing.. not a chance.. I cut the bronze bushing out and installed my Victory performance adapter busing and retried.. smooth as butter. the price of the adapter busing with shipping was 50.00 from Dick Miller racing. it's a roller bearing rather than a bushing and it's actually a nicer piece than the needle bearing style.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture058.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture059.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture060-1.jpg

[MPRY1]

That Dick Miller bearing looks like a real nice piece. I have never seen a sealed cartridge bearing used like that, but I have to say it looks like it would hold up a lot better then the needle bearing type. :TU:

Where did you get it?

[GranSportSedan]

I ordered it directly from Dick Miller racing. bearing was 39.00 plus shipping. it comes complete with instructions for all applications and situations

[Horsman]

Installed my pilot bushing that was included with my Ram brand clutch assembly. The OD on the pilot bushing is slightly larger than the inside diameter of the crank shaft...installed bushing and now the inside diameter if the pilot bushing is too small to accept the input shaft on the transmission.:spank: Today I purchased 3 different pilot bushings, the NAPA brand (roller pilot bearing) OD is the smallest of the three. Playing hell trying to get the most recently installed pilot bushing back out of the crank. Was thinking of just getting a drill bit and opening the bushing up slightly. Does anyone have any thoughts on if this is a good or bad thing or should I keep trying to remove the bushing from the crank and start with a fresh one????

Help!!!!!

[Floydsbuick]

Thats an interesting thread. Here I thought it was only us odd ball Buick gear rowers who were having these problems. They never mention if the roller bearing pilot bearings are the correct O.D....I wonder if they are?:Do No:

I put a Chevy Roller in the BBB 4X4. Fit great. But.....when I had the crank at the machine shop, I had that crank hole checked in advance.

[Floydsbuick]

[QUOTE=Steve Schiebel;1001926]You folks actually believe GM would have invested in machining separate cranks for AT vs. MT cars? QUOTE]



Same castings, they just didn't bother to clean up the holes on the AT cars sometimes.

[GranSportSedan]

dick miller racing has the adapter bushing that goes in cranks like yours.. dont try to use the one you have in there now.

[racenu]

My 455 was auto and I got a bushing from TA for my Richmond 5 speed. It was suppose to tap right in, after awhile it tapped right in alright (i didn't want to force it so used a bigger hammer) and when it did the tranny would'nt fit in the bushing. ...alittle dremmel work and presto. The way I see it the tranny input only spins in the bushing when the clutch pedal is depressed?

[Horsman]

My 455 was auto and I got a bushing from TA for my Richmond 5 speed. It was suppose to tap right in, after awhile it tapped right in alright (i didn't want to force it so used a bigger hammer) and when it did the tranny would'nt fit in the bushing. ...alittle dremmel work and presto. The way I see it the tranny input only spins in the bushing when the clutch pedal is depressed?

That's the idea I was thinking...maybe a small dremel sanding bit and take a few thousands out of the bushing to make the input shaft fit. We will give it a try.

[GranSportSedan]

what happens when you dont get the hole exactly centered? just spend the 50.00 and buy the dick miller bearing. it's a very nice piece

[Horsman]

what happens when you dont get the hole exactly centered? just spend the 50.00 and buy the dick miller bearing. it's a very nice piece

The biggest problem I am having is getting the most recent new pilot bushing I installed out easily. Sanding bit on the dremel seemed to work ok this evening. Clearance is a few thousands larger than the tip of the input shaft. Shaft goes in just fine sine the modification of the bushing with the sanding bit. What would be the issues if I run with what I have done?? I agree with your suggestion of changing the pilot bushing but the problem is getting the bushing back out at this point. I have tried pullers with slide hammer and nothing is working. Any advise.

[racenu]

If you need to remove the bushing once you drive it in, you could try cutting the bushing starting on the inside with a small dremel die grinding bit or a pencil or die grinder. Take care not to go all the way through as you don't want to grind the crank. Once you get most of the way through go to the opposite side, and do the same thing, this should relieve the pressure and shrink the bushing somewhat enough that it should pop out with a slide hammer or something else. This is what I would do, someone may have a better idea or have a proper tool to remove it but I don't have one.

[greg davis]

Jeff I have had the same exact problem you have, I found a roll sanding attachment for the Dremel that was a perfect fit.

Be careful and push the Dremel straight into the bushing. You do not have to enlarge the opening very much at all. Take your time.

I have a year and a half on this bushing modification with no problems.

[Horsman]

Jeff I have had the same exact problem you have, I found a roll sanding attachment for the Dremel that was a perfect fit.

Be careful and push the Dremel straight into the bushing. You do not have to enlarge the opening very much at all. Take your time.

I have a year and a half on this bushing modification with no problems.

Greg, you did exactly what I did last night. I noticed the ID of the pilot bushing is slightly larger after the modification, which gave a slight bit more movement in the hole (when using my clutch alignment tool) to work ok. I slid one of the pilot bushings on the end of the alignment tool and can wiggle the bushing, there is some clearance there. You can feel more movement when sliding the pilot bushing on the worn M21 input shaft. I guess you probably have tha same Dremel kit that had the sanding disc that just snugly fits in the bushings. With your success with the added clearance with no issue, I feel this is a good fix. Thanks for the input, glad to know I am not the only one who has done this modification. :TU:

[racenu]

Has anyone got pics of how far in the Pilot bushing is suppose to be? I'm thinking now that I should cut mine out and start over?

[Horsman]

Has anyone got pics of how far in the Pilot bushing is suppose to be? I'm thinking now that I should cut mine out and start over?

It should be flush with the opening in the back of the crank if using the bushing style.

[PaulGS]

my 73 crank was drilled deep enough just not large enough to accept the standard bushing. just for kicks i froze my bronze bushing and then forced it in to the crank with a BFH. then i tried installing my trans to see if the shaft would go in the bushing.. not a chance.. I cut the bronze bushing out and installed my Victory performance adapter busing and retried.. smooth as butter. the price of the adapter busing with shipping was 50.00 from Dick Miller racing. it's a roller bearing rather than a bushing and it's actually a nicer piece than the needle bearing style.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture058.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture059.jpg
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/gransportsedan/Picture060-1.jpg

I had one of those adapter bearings fail. It is a cheap Chineseum bearing.

[PaulGS]

Olds used a really HD ball bearing. It is BCA7109.

If you have the crank cut, use that bearing.

[racenu]

my cranks not drilled, so flush it is. thanks Gord

[GranSportSedan]

Paul
are you saying the dick miller racing piece is cheap chinesium? i highly doubt that considering the qaulity of the parts dick miller makes and sells. there may be cheap copies out there that are using crappy bearings.

[GSX-Rated]

I just bought a GM pilot roller bearing & it measures 1.093 in. I took it to my machine shop & I am having them shave down .023' so it will fit in my crank. It seems that the GM bearing has enough meat on the outside to shave it down some, the aftermarket does not seem to have as thick of a casing. I'll probably pay the guy $20.00, so that + the $16.00 to buy the bearing = $36.00. Close to the Miller piece, but w/out shipping. We'll see how it comes out.

:Do No:

[87GN_70GS]

The failure mode for a roller bearing is that the cage or rollers gall then turn to powder, leaving very large clearances for the pilot shaft in the hole. The failure mode for a bushing is that the bushing wears and clearance slowly builds up.

[PaulGS]

Paul
are you saying the dick miller racing piece is cheap chinesium? i highly doubt that considering the qaulity of the parts dick miller makes and sells. there may be cheap copies out there that are using crappy bearings.

That is what I am saying.

If you compare the adapter bearing to the GM original, you will clearly see the difference.