Dont You Care??!

[RACEBUICKS]

It's a Wednesday night and you are at a church prayer
meeting
When somebody runs in from the parking lot and says, "Turn
on a radio,
turn on a radio." And while the church listens to a little
transistor
radio with a microphone stuck up to it, the announcement
is made: "Two
women are lying in a Long Island hospital dying from the
mystery flu."
Within hours it seems, this thing just sweeps across the
country.
People are working around the clock trying to find an
antidote. Nothing
is working. California, Oregon, Arizona, Florida,
Massachusetts. It's as
though it's just sweeping in from the borders. And then,
all of a sudden
the news comes out. The code has been broken. A cure can
be found. A
vaccine can be made. It's going to take the blood of
somebody who hasn't
been infected, and so, sure enough, all through the
Midwest, through all
those channels of emergency broadcasting, everyone is
asked to do one
simple thing:
Go to your downtown hospital and have your blood type
taken. That's
All we ask of you. When you hear the sirens go off in your
neighborhood,
please make your way quickly, quietly, and safely to the
hospitals. Sure
enough, when you and your family get down there late on
that night,
there is a long line, and they've got nurses and doctors
coming out and
pricking fingers and taking blood and putting labels on
it. Your wife
and your kids are out there, and they take your blood type
and they say,
"Wait here in the parking lot and if we call your name,
you can be
dismissed and go home." You stand around, scared, with
your neighbors,
wondering what in the world is going on and if this is the
end of the
world.

Suddenly a young man comes running out of the hospital
screaming.
He's yelling a name and waving a clipboard. What? He yells
it again! And
your son tugs on your jacket and says, "Daddy, that's me."
Before you
know it, they have grabbed your boy. Wait a minute. Hold
on! And they
say, "It's okay, his blood is clean. His blood is pure. We want to make sure he doesn't have the disease. We think he has got the
right type."
Five tense minutes later, out come the doctors and nurses,
Crying and hugging one another; some are even laughing.
It's the first
time you have seen anybody laugh in a week, and an old
doctor walks up
to you and says, "Thank you, sir. Your son's blood type is
perfect. It's
clean, it is pure, and we can make the vaccine." As the
word begins to
spread all across that parking lot full of folks, people
are screaming
and praying and laughing and crying.

But then the gray-haired doctor pulls you and your wife
aside and says,
"May we see you for moment? We didn't realize that the
donor would be a
minor and we need . . . we need you to sign a consent
form." You begin
to sign and then you see that the number of pints of blood
to be taken
is empty. "H-how many pints?" And that is when the old
doctor's smile
fades and he says, "We had no idea it would be little
child. We weren't
prepared. We need it all." "But-but...You don't
understand."
"We are talking about the world here. Please sign. We need
it all!"
"But can't you give him a transfusion?" "If we had clean
blood we would.
Can you sign? Would you sign?" In numb silence, you do.
Then they say,
"Would you like to have a moment with him before we
begin?" Can you walk
back? Can you walk back to that room where he sits on a
table saying,
"Daddy? Mommy? What's going on?"

Can you take his hands and say, "Son, your mommy and I
love you, and we
would never ever let anything happen to you that didn't
just have to be.
Do you understand that?" And when that old doctor comes
back in and
says, "I'm sorry, we've got to get started. People all
over the world
are dying."

Can you leave? Can you walk out while he is saying, "Dad?
Mom? Dad?
Why, why have you forsaken me?"

And then next week, when they have the ceremony to honor
your son, and
some folks sleep through it, and some folks don't even
come because they
go to the lake, or to the beach, or some have to go
shopping, or
Some don't want to take off from work and some folks come
with a
pretentious smile and just pretend to care. Would you want
to jump up
and say, "MY SON DIED FOR YOU! DON'T YOU CARE?"

Is that what GOD wants to say? "MY SON DIED FOR YOU.
DON'T YOU KNOW
HOW MUCH I CARE?" Father, seeing it from your eyes breaks
our hearts.
Maybe now we can begin to comprehend the great Love you
have for us."
You can now spread the gospel ... or delete it. If you
are not ashamed
of God or what he has done for you, pass this on, PLEASE
Spread the word. So, take a few moments to forward this.

[chryco63]

Thanks Michael!

It's hard to realize how much we often turn our backs on God.

[GSXMEN]

Thanks Mike! If that story doesn't put things in the right perspective...nothing will!!!

[jeff bullock]

Thank You Mike.Sometimes we forget how precious our lives really are and how valuable they are.Jeff B.

[KEN COTRONA]

If you were all-powerful and all-knowing,
why not save everyone yourself?
Is it a sacrifice if you know that your son will return to life in a few days? and those few days of "death" will be spent in "heaven" chillin' with you on your almighty throne?
just wondering....................

[chryco63]

Ken,

Let's put the binders on here for a second! Jesus DID NOT go to heaven during his three days of death. He went to Hell with our sins, plus the sins of the entire world. God cannot have evil in Heaven. Love and evil do not mix at all. Jesus did a couple things we cannot do ourselves. First, he was a "dump truck." He dumped our sins in Hell, where they belong. Secondly, Jesus rose back to life. He literally overpowered Satan.

"Well of course, he did, He's the Son of God" you say. True! But, Jesus was every much a human being just like you and I. Jesus was not a ghost, before OR after he rose from the dead. He was a livin', breathin', walkin', talkin' Human Being.

Now, could *we* dump our sins in Hell? No. But we can be re-united with our sins if we choose not to realize the sacrifice that Chirst made for us and obey his Good Teachings. Can we overpower Satan? We can while we live on earth! But only if we choose Christ. If we do not choose Christ, we refuse the gift of Salvation. Then we end up in Hell, and God cannot help us there because we have been separated from Him.

Ken, Jesus going to the cross was a sacrifice because He was separated from God, His Father. God sacrificed His Son to Hell. If God did not sacrifice Jesus to Hell, He would have sacrificed ALL OF US to Hell. That sure doens't sound like an all loving God.

But then, one can say, "Well, God is Almighty and All Powerful. Why doesn't He just use His power to save us all right now?" The answer is that God does not automatically control us and save us. We are not marionettes or puppetts or robots. We are, obviously, human beings. We make our own choices. Right? If God controlled us, we would be robots. Or, life would be one huge video game. Since that isn't reasonable or even true, God has given US the choice to Live for Eternity with Him (choosing Christ) or Live for Eternity with Satan (choosing the world).

Ken, please consider this. Read the Bible for yourself! It does not contradict itself, and it proves itself correct even to this very minute!!! Analyze it! Prove it to yourself! Be open minded! I challenge you! It is God's true Word, and it is the Breath of God!

:TU: :TU: :TU: :TU:

[KEN COTRONA]

http://www.ffrf.org/bquiz.html

a bible knowlege quizz, i got 24 of 50 right.

[chryco63]

Ken,

I don't know if that quiz is a random quiz (whether I got the exact same quiz as you did) but a lot of those questions in that quiz are out of context. For example, question 30 asks about Christmas traditions in the Bible. Christmas itself (the annual celebration of Christ's birth) isn't even mentioned in the Bible. How can the quizmaker even ask that question.

Also, question 34 says Jesus came to start wars. Jesus did not say that. This is found in Matthew 10:34. I have four translations of the Bible, and each one says that Jesus came with a sword. By that, Jesus means that families will become divided when someone accepts Jesus and someone else doesn't. Continue to read this in verse 37.

Question 32, 41 and 48 are pretty twisted, too. The quizmaker worded those questions to say what he wanted to say, not what the Bible says.

So, considering that a lot of those questions were bogus, I think you got an excellent score Ken. A lot of that Old Testament stuff is tough!

[KEN COTRONA]

did you see the answer page? for example question 30's answer
Christmas trees. --Many other Christmas traditions have their roots in pagan practices, such as the holly wreath, a fertility symbol. Even the date of Christmas, near the winter solstice, is linked to sun worship. Modern Christians have stolen Christmas from the pagans.

I tend to wonder about the stoning to death questions.
are the passages taken out of context?
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them; Then shall his father and mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of the city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:17) "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he that cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him." (Leviticus 20:9)

seems like a lot of rock throwing going on. (i think that the "stonee" was buried with just thier head exposed to make the stoning more effective]
question 34 doesnt say that jesus came to start wars it says. What did Jesus say about peace?
Answer: B

"Don't think that I came for peace on earth. I came to start wars." --Are these the words of a good man?
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34) "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished! Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51) These words, by the way, come immediately after Jesus talked about beating slaves. (See Question 33)
how is that interperted to be about divided families?

32 41 and 48 are twisted i agree on that.

have you studied other religions and historical texts? flood stories are in nearly every cultures myth. ( tons of problems with the noah story taken as truth)
look into the pre- christian goddess religion, the babaloynian myths, the epic of gilgimesh, the greek myths, all have strong elements that are present in the bible. it seems to me that christianity was created as a " government" a way to control people by fear, fear of an all seeing ,all knowing "father" . you will be punished for doing wrong. i bet it seemed like a good idea at the time, and it probably was, but it has evolved into a cult of sheep blindly following the shepard without asking why.

[chryco63]

Ken,

I didn't see the answer page.

Regarding question 30 to Christmas... I AGREE! When the wisemen came to Bethlehem to see their Saviour, did they give gifts to each other? No! They gave gifts to the King! To the Messiah! To Christ! I don't know if I've emphasized this in my previous posts, but Christians need to follow the teachings of Christ, not men.

See, since Christmas isn't a teaching of Christ, and isn't in the Bible, it has gone chaotic in the hands of men. People spend untold billions of dollars giving gifts to family and friends, all (or mostly all) in the name of Christ. Did Christ institute this? Mmm, not that I can find. So, since Christmas isn't put in the hands of Christ, it is put in the hands of men, and this is where it becomes wrong, because we neglect helping thousands of people because we have to spend money on buying gifts, gifts, gifts. Can you imagine how many Lost we could save, how many homeless we could shelter, how many hungry we could feed if we abandoned "Christmas" and put God's money where it really belongs? Give your gifts to the King! (Matt. 25:31-46) Do not be hung on tradition and human heritage (Luke 3:8), but obey Christ (Luke 9:35)!!!!

As for much stoning to death, yes there was quite a bit of that in the Old Law (or, Moses's Law). But, we can disregard stoning now, since we have Christ, the New Law, who tells us to love our enemies! (Matt. 5:43-48). If a son turns and rebels against his father, it would be wrong for the father to murder his son (Matt. 5:21-26). Instead, Jesus asks us to be compassionate and love unconditionally (just as he does), and to forgive others just as God forgives us (Lord's Prayer, Matt. 6:9-15). On the opposite, side, Jesus also commands children to obey their parents, and to honour their parents.

First, about beating slaves. Jesus does not command us to beat slaves. That analogy is about God the father (master) and his followers (slaves). See, I am a slave to Christ. I serve Christ, to my best. I know my Father's will, that I should preach the Good News to all, so all may know God the Father and the grace, mercy and love he lavishes on us. I know that is my job, correct? If I do not do that, what is in store for me? Obviously, not a shaking of the finger and a "No, no." I haven't grasped the opportunity God has given me to tell others of Christ. If no one else reaches the people that I didn't talk to, they might go to Hell. I will then be punished by God according to his grace and mercy, and I could go to Hell as well. Just as a Bible-time slave was punished for not doing his job, God will do the same for me if I do not serve Him properly.

Obviously, slavery was still heralded at the time that Luke wrote this Scripture. Slavery was something that was still often held in God's hand. 150-200 yrs. ago, when slavery was abolished, most Masters weren't thinking of slavery as someone who works for free for you, to serve you while you provide their basic needs, but rather they thought of slaves as possessions, replaceable, disposable, trash. Definately not a Christian manner of treating people. My final point: Do not take Luke 12:47-48 about beating slaves. Nobody should be beaten, because the Lord says "Vengence is mine, I will repay." (At the moment, I forget what Scripture that is). Take this Scripture from Luke as what will happen to those who say they are "Christians," but do not do what Christ asks.

Addressing Jesus bringing a sword: Ken, it does not apply only to families. Best friends, teachers and pupils, some churches themselves.... Wherever there is a split between choosing Christ and choosing the world, it is because Jesus has brought division, right? The baptism Jesus talks about is being immersed in the sins of the world. The fire Jesus talks about is (I think) the fire that he would soon bring as his disciples would bring the Good News around the world. Fire as in hatred for Christ, Himself. If everyone chose Christ, we would have peace. But will everyone choose Christ? No. People hate Jesus because it means they must give up earthly possessions, friends, money and things they have worked hard for, to follow Christ.

Ken, I have not fully studied other religions and cultures (I have started researching Muslim and Buddishim), and I am not well-versed in the Old Testament yet, but I can tell you that Christianity is not a "government." I can say, and will testify, that CHRIST HAS WORKED IN MY LIFE!!! If Christianity was invented, what good was it for the inventors to be persecuted, insulted, beaten and even stoned to death for the story they invented. What good is it for me to be called a "Bible Thumper" if the Bible doesn't work for me. If it didn't work, I would throw it away so I wouldn't have to be insulted, right? Ken, the Bible works, and I'm telling you so.

Ken, these are good questions you have asked. I still wholehartedly advise you to keep reading your Bible. Read the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) and familiarize yourself with the story of Christ. The New Testament is the New Law, the one of Christ and of pure love. Read on!

[KEN COTRONA]

from the bbc
shttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm
biblical "stoning"
jesus had long hair, and wore robes and sandals too............................................... ... ha ha ha ha


Monday, 6 January, 2003, 19:18 GMT
Cannabis linked to Biblical healing

Many of the miracles concerned healing

Jesus Christ and his apostles may have used a cannabis-based anointing oil to help cure people with crippling diseases, it has been claimed.
Researchers in the United States say the oil used in the early days of the Christian church contained a cannabis extract called kaneh-bosem.

They suggest the extract, which is absorbed into the body when placed on the skin, could have helped cure people with a variety of physical and mental problems.

The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records



Chris Bennet

The author of the article, published in the US drugs magazine High Times, says his findings are based on a study of scriptural texts.

Wide use

The article does not question the validity of the miracles reported in the Bible but rather examines whether the early Christian Church may have made use of substances with an active medical effect.

It does not rule out the role played by blind faith in Christ.

Chris Bennett said cannabis was widely used at the time to heal the sick.

"The medical use of cannabis during that time is supported by archaeological records."

He said the ancient anointing oil contained high levels of cannabis extract.

"The holy anointing oil, as described in the original Hebrew version of the recipe in Exodus, contained over six pounds of keneh-bosum - a substance identified by respected etymology, linguists anthropologists, botanists and other researchers as cannabis extracted into about six quarts of olive oil along with a variety of other fragrant herbs.

"The ancient annointed ones were literally drenched in this potent mixture."

Miracles

Mr Bennett suggested the drug may have played a role in some healing miracles carried out by Jesus and his disciples.

He wrote: "In the ancient world, diseases such as epilepsy were attributed to demonic possession.

"To cure somebody of such an illness, even with the aid of certain herbs was considered exorcism or miraculous healing.

Jesus often becomes the final hope for the pharmacologically impaired



JesusJournal.com

"Interestingly, cannabis has been shown to be effective in the treatment of not only epilepsy but many of the other ailments that Jesus and the disciples healed people of such as skin diseases, eye problems and menstrual problems."

Mr Bennett said the findings suggested that it was unchristian to persecute people who used cannabis.

"If cannabis was one of the main ingredients of the ancient Christian anointing oil, as history indicates, and receiving this oil is what made Jesus the Christ and his followers Christians, then persecuting those who use cannabis could be considered anti-Christ."

However, Christian groups in the United States have rejected Mr Bennett's claims.

They have insisted that the arguments made in the article are lame.

In a response to the article published on JesusJournal.com, critics said: "As many of us know firsthand, Jesus often becomes the final hope for the pharmacologically impaired."

John Cunyus, the author of a book on Christian healing, said: "Well, the Bible does say that St. Stephen was stoned... but perhaps not in that sense!"

[GKMoz]

Something just flew over someones head:grin: 1 corinthians 2:10-14 and 2 corinthians 2:14-17 to read and know the word of god is one thing, but to KNOW theee word of GOD is another(john 1:1):grin:

[chryco63]

Ken,

Jesus did not- I repeat- DID NOT, use cannabis (or "pot," for the sake of shortforms) to heal people. It is written in black and white that when Jesus healed people, he used something that is very special to human beings... touch.

Human touch is special. We all need to be touched, and we can sometimes be offended when we aren't touched (ever been offended when someone didn't take their glove off to shake your hand?). So, people were actually touched by the Son of God to be healed. If you need examples, just look at Matt. 8:3, 8:15, 9:25, Mark 7:33-35, 8:23 & 25... and there are many others.

You'll also notice that Christ was able to just speak... and heal people of sicknesses, demons and evil spirits. That's how strong the voice of God is alone. As well, God created the world just by speaking it into existence.


It does not rule out the role played by blind faith in Christ

Blind faith? I would have to disagree. If you saw Jesus heal a man of leprosy on the spot , would it be blind faith to believe that he can heal, let alone be the Son of the Almighty God? Even if you didn't see the actual healing, many people saw the healed person. Matt. 9:26, 9:32-33, John 5:1-15, 9:1-12 and so on.

Since it seems that these Pot folks have not really studied the healing events of Jesus, I would have to disagree and say that their article and research is quite bogus. I would like to see their results along with their claims.

[JAKE]

Hi Ken: I have enjoyed reading this running battle and would like to say right off the bat that I know I can't change your mind but from your words I know that you know who can! Yes I have studied various religions of the world and I know off the many similarities. The Bible starts out with IN THE BEGINNING every thing else is after the fact including these other religions. You seem upset about the brutality of the Old Testament but if you would bother to study it all you would see there are reasons behind all off it and all of it was brought on by mankind not by GOD! As you have been told we do have free will and we allways have had, Check out Adam and Eve. God's plan for us is not the plan our ancestors followed and for that matter most of us,Christian or not, are not doing to good at it either. Did Jesus come with a sword?YES Did he come to bring change and upheavel? YES Why? Read all about it in the New Testament! The leaders in the government and the CHURCH were not following GOD'S WILL! Those who believed did find they could no longer tolerate the sin filled life of others even if it was their MOTHER! True Christiananity brings CHANGE! And CHANGE can be HARD! You think it was easy for GOD to give JESUS up because He knew it wasn't for good. JESUS came as a MAN. He suffered all temptations and hurts common to man in order to be truly able to take on our sin. GOD knew he was at the time flesh and would suffer physical pain and mental anguish like a MAN! You don't think that would be hard? On top off that GOD is not used to giving up anything! Is Christianity a government? YES! A Theocracy! Guess who's in charge? In closing this sermon I would like you to know that Christianity is not like other religions, It is a Personal Relationship with GOD! You don't have to have buildings,Preachers or anything else. Those things are only tools to reach others and to give strength to ourself and others thru the GOD given gifts we have. Ken, I hope you stick with this till you figure it out, all I ask is that you look at both sides of the question. PS I didn't take the quiz but i probably would flunk it so your score shows you have some knowledge! GOD BLESS!
JAKE 1972 455 Stage 1 "SKY"LARK

[TXGS]

Mike thanks for your post:TU:

[KEN COTRONA]

There were religions before christianity, lots of them. because the bible say "in the begining" does not mean it came first.
in the Hulk comic , Hulk say " Hulk strongest one there is arrrggggg" but is he ? He never beat Thor.........

All the nastyness was gods fault, he created us right? well, he didn't do a good job. If we were created in his image, and we are not perfect, does that not mean god is not perfect? but A PERFECT GOD WOULD HAVE CREATED US PERFECTLY. so, either A: god is not perfect or all powerful (the bible says he is, is the bible wrong?)
B: god did it in purpose, so that we can suffer and be punished for doing the flawed things we were created (by god) to do in the first place, if he wanted us to "do" anything, he should have created us that way. (If you want to build a 455 you don't use vtec honda parts, then throw it in the fire when it wont run.)
c: it's a whole lot of crap.
and the answer is.............C

why would a creature of infinate power, and infinate knowlege give a rats petootie about us? there must be way cooler places in the universe to hang out. do you sit and manipulate the lives of ants? do you even think about them? the gap between us and ants is far far less than the gap between us and omnipotence.
god seems to have all of our emotions " he loves us " he cares about everyone even sinners blah de blab bla bla........
god is a figment of our collective imaginations, a modern day boogie man, whose gonna getch in the end if you do bad.

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-- James Madison (1751-1836)

If the book the Bible and my brain are both the work of the same Infinite God, whose fault is it that the book and my brain do not agree?" - Robert Ingersoll

[JAKE]

Ken: I didn't mean to start a running battle with you but your ideas are so unique I can't help myself. I hope you take this all in good spirit because that is the way it is given. This debate is far older than either of us and I doubt we can solve it. The thing most people don't see or just don't want to accept is the fact that GOD created us for HIS OWN PLEASURE! REV: 4:11 People and especially Americans don't want to think that they are not in charge and what they want is not first priority! As far as being created flawed you seem to not want to accept the concept of free will even though you want to have it! Yes there were lots of religions before Christianity GOD didn`t start a religion IN THE BEGINNING only two people that he communed with. It was much later that he called Jacob out to start a nation that was to be the priests of GOD to show GOD'S power and love to all the other people in the world. JESUS came much later ushering in the age of grace that we now have and his followers became known as CHRISTIANS. You wonder why GOD would care about us, why do you care about your RIV? As far as cooler places to hang out in the universe I can't answer that as this is the only place I been. GOD has no desire to punish us for our flawed behaviour HE desires to save us from it. HE is not hanging around trying to catch you doing something wrong so he can get you. HE is hanging around like a loving father trying to help you. Yes religious bondage does shackle but JESUS came to free us from the Religion of Man and from the bondage of all sin. As far as whose fault that a mans brain and a book don't agree it's all about our old buddy Free Will! If you have a son who becomes a preacher will it be your fault? Just remember Ken, Christians aren't perfect they are forgiven sinners who are trying to get it right and even the Apostle Paul said that he fell far short of the mark.
GOD BLESS YOU ( Even if you did talk about Buicks and Hondas in the same breath!!) JAKE

[KEN COTRONA]

Jake, my idea's are in no way unique.
http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/
check out this board, a few buick guys from here, also go there.
they noticed us in a thread titled "silly creationist arguments" in the science forum.
they can be a bit harsh, so look out if you post anything there.
the quality of discussion is very good however.
I try to write with a bit of humor, and fun.

Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear.

-Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

[chryco63]

Ken,

The Bible in full is not Christianity. Christianity doesn't start until about ~3/4 through the Bible (as you probably know). So, yes, there were religions before Christianity... the Pharisees were glued to the law of Moses, which was a "religion" before Christ. But, God says, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" Matt 17:5

Ken, you seem to have misplaced the fact that as humans, we are free-willed. If I choose to drive a Buick, I'll drive a Buick. If I want a Chevy motor in my Buick, I'll put a Chevy motor in my Buick (which I'm not). If I choose to follow the Bible, I will follow the Bible. If I choose to kill someone, I will kill someone. If I choose to have unprotected sex, I will have unprotected sex. If I choose to attempt to rescue 10 people from a burning building, I'll attempt to rescue 10 people from a burning building.... and so on, right?

We are created in God's image by being spiritual beings, having a spirit, and having the given ability to have free choice. God is The Ultimate Spirit, God, The Almighty.... but not a person. Thus, God created humans in His image. God chose to create us... see? Coming full circle, we see that all the nastiness in the world, to be general, is the fault of humans because we have chosen to follow our ways instead of the perfect ways God has set before us. Our ways are not perfect because we do not have the knowledge. God's ways are perfect because He was the One that created us, the earth and all that is in it. Ken, we are created perfectly... just look at the human body, and how complex it is, how it functions, how we reproduce.

You also say that if He wanted us to "do" anything, he would have created us to do so. Also realize Ken, as I have mentioned before, that we are not robots. God could have made us robots, but He didn't. He made us in His own image... we are like a car optioned out like God, in that we are spiritual and have free choice, but we don't have luxuries like, actually being God, or having almighty power.

Now, why does God love us, care about us, want us with Him in eternity? Why would God, someone sooooo powerful and mighty and big want to do anything with something as small and fragile as humans? Ken, I can't answer that any other way than saying three things:

1. Because He created us in His own image
2. Because He does
3. I don't know.

To relate to answer #1, just look at this whole Buick Board. God created us in His own image, so obviously, He'd be pretty interested in us. It's obvious we enjoy Buicks because, well, look at how this board functions! To relate to answer #2 & 3, it's just like my sister says "why do you like that ugly Buick?" She doens't know why I like it (it's pretty darn old and ugly to her), but she know's I like it! I don't know why God loves me, but I know he does!

Ken, God's not gonna get ya' if you do bad. He will, at the end, condemn you to Hell if you do not follow His will, which is about showing Love to one another and directing others to God's Love.
It's not about doing good or bad. I can do 10 burnouts in my Chrysler. That's bad because I have no more tires. I can murder someone who angers me. That's bad because now I'll go to jail. I can remember to give my mom a Valentine's card. That's good because she won't get frustrated with me since I forgot. I can run Sunoco 94 octane in my Buick. That's good because it will run better.... See how all of these, good or bad, are irrelevant to God's will? However, I can repent of my sins after I've murdered someone, and devote my life to God. I can give my mom a card that describes how much I love her, and how much Jesus loves her... not because I don't want to forget her on Valentines day, but because I love her because Jesus loves me!

Ack! This is looong! I'll stop now. I hope this helps!

[chryco63]

How do we make this thread appear on multiple pages? I think it'd be a good idea... it's a loooong scroll down to the bottom. :Comp:

[sbbuick]

What is a son? Isn't a son someone who is younger, but in all ways equal to the parents? As a parent, wouldn't you wish for your son to grow up to be a better, a Greater person than yourself?

Is, or was Jesus the SON Of GOD? That's what is being taught by Christians all over the world. God, the incredibly powerful, complex being who created the entire universe and everything in it. All the laws of Physics, Nature, Time and Space, DNA, etc..

I grew up being told about the Trinity, etc. I have searched for many years. I personally have concluded that No, Jesus was Not the Son of God.

I put Jesus on the same High Level as some would put The Bhudda. A powerful person, greater than most, higher than most, but no - not the same as "God".

[Stg1Regal]

As much I know about the Bible, I really can't defend with Phrases and scriptures.

What I do know Jesus is the Son of God, he was created , as were in God's image......we dont know what God Actually Looks like, but Jesus and us were created to be normal in appreaance and to walk on this earth, the image was in PURNESS, umblemished soul, when Adam and Eve where created they where pure they did not hide their nakedness from God.
Wisdom and knowledge was promised to them from a serpent ,they did get them, hence when God came down to find out who took a bite out of the fruit of Knowledge he, found them hiding, ashamed and clothed.
Wisdom or knowledge isn't the evil it's what you do with it.

As for God he is pure.....what he says is Law ,, to the point he can't break his own rules ..when he created the earth..
Genesis 1:26
"LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE and Let HIM HAVE DOMINIAN OVER EVEYTHING ON EARTH"
US?????
Yep ...Him talkng to himself and the others of heaven to say.. if the world is pure we can asend to there, if it isn't, we can't,hence him being able to walk in the garden to find Adam and Eve. After wich finding them with knowledge and wisdom and hiding themselves , and not to mention they broke one of Gods laws,the earth wasn't pure.
He also gave man rule of the earth , not himself....once again God makes a Law, so God can't be here on earth.

As for Jesus dying on the cross, and God not doing anything about it......HE COULDN'T...because of his own law in Genisis.
The world wasn't pure..

Jesus knew what was going to happen to him in the Garden the night before his crucifixion, he prayed so hard , that he sweated blood. (proven theroy)

Jesus didn't just walk on this earth knowing he was going to die, he walked on this earth to let everyone know about God and his deeds and the right ways.

Jesus Christ was Jesus's name, Jesus was his earthly name, Christ was his standing with God, like a CEO is to a company.

As for whats been going on in the world and why dosen't God do something about it.....don't worry he will..... Have Faith...
When Sadam took off in the middle of his interveiw, it took Dan Rather by surpise, when inquired what happen he was told that Sadam went to pray......
THats what has beeen encouaged to all of through Gods word, to pray, even to pray without ceasing....
When you pray..GOD does hear you.....(READ MY POST ABOUT MY THANK YOUS FOR PRAYERS) it does work.....
WHY? because when praying you are actually giving GOD permission to do something....then he can intervein..AT ANY LEVEL.
Another case in point myself , my family, and my Dad's Church, My church, My men's group, and my Youth group, all have been praying for my Nephew, he's just off the coast of Iran, waiting for his orders to go to Bagdagh (SP?) and build and raise an airstrip for the Marines , while probaly under fire.
Well of course we dont want him or his unit hurt, and his wife is very sick and is pregnant, and they got married 5 months ago, and her health is getting very worse......
at about 3pm today we got E-mail from my SIS, his MOM ,that the Doctor concluled that his wife needs him here, and the RED CROSS should be in motion tomorrow to go get him and bring him home.

Just read the Bible like a child reads a book....grab a friend or realative to bounce your questions off of.

I'm one of our youth volunteers at the church...I have dealt with open ended sinical questions like yours , from some of the youth out side God's word( but mind you they do bring a understanding to us in what direction in Gods word to go to and derive and answer ).I have seen them finally accept it and their and their famlies lives,be blessed and flourish.

I am a Christian.....I proudly pronounce my faith in God, and accept His son died for my and even your sins.

But I'm not going to shove it down your throat..
It's walk of faith and accepting his words.....

I have no philisopical quotes from great people to throw back at
ya.
I just know that one man spent most of his life trying to prove the Bible to a be a farce, or it was added on to or written by people to satisfy , and make their belief in Christ "seem "real.

What he came up with.....was simple... Mr.Josh Mc Dowell found out every biblical reference , text, or events, and words written ....DID HAPPEN.!!

THE BIBLE, AND ALL THE WORDS SPOKEN IN IT,....IS REAL!!!

The ones before Christ and after his birth and even after his death..

even then he tried again to disprove it....couldn't

It's now been said with out a doubt......in the history of ANY KNOWN written text.. the Bible is Accurate, and truthful, Real, and did exsist when Moses, and Christ....walked this earth.

Now try go dispell that.... you can't......

Have faith in what you read now, it will clear away any questions you have.

It's time to step out of your comfort zone, and let his word the BIBLE tell and show what to do to move on in his Faith.

Remember the serpent....? he knew about the knowledge and the wisdom..... and we accepted it for it's face value, not it's purity
Now we have,what we have here today, in this forum.....A MAN 's QUESTIONABLE FAITH...with the world's Knowledge to back him up. Sounds like the serpent is causing a stir again.

As for Jesus chillin knowin he would only be dead for 3 days and nights.....SORRY DUDE.....nope he was in HEll fighting for yours and mines and everyone souls...ALONE..

Christianity isn't a religon.....it's a belief, or really "THE FAITH" in God's word.....some will accept it, others won't...
Again look at all your texts and references that you have tossed out at us......are they pure.. are they spoken in the way..the most purist man alive or in heaven would have said them?

good luck in your quest....have Faith guide the rest of the way