A study of Revelation

[RACEBUICKS]

I am involved in a in depth study of Revelation at church on Sunday eves. I was just doing my "homework" between coats of white paint on a ford van and thought , since we have this section here maybe some of you Bible beleiving christians might enjoy a discussion about it too. I have found it to be a very intense study myself. I hope we dont get started on a bunch of bunny trails but rather stay on track as per what the Scriptures have to say on the subject. So what do you think? Start at chapter 1? :Smarty:

[RACEBUICKS]

1The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
Greetings and doxology
4John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
7Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

One like a Son of Man
9I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. 10On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, 11which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
12I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13and among the lampstands was someone "like a son of man,"[b]dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

19"Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later. 20The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels[c] of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches

[chryco63]

Being in Bible College, I just finished a class on Revelation last term. My interpretation of all the craziness and chaos in the book may differ largely from many of you, but I think there's no better way to conclude the Scriptures than with Revelation... God certainly did it right (as if there's any other way for him). The book is laced with messages of hope and triumph... which is great news for us!

[GKMoz]

Hope you don't consider this a bunny trail ? But I was saved in March of 1980 because of the book of revelation !! I read Hal Lindsays "late great planet earth" stayed up all night reading the whole book. Couldn't put it down !! As for your study, Where do we begin to talk about such a discriptive account of coming events ?? and that it stands up with the book of Daniel. My first thought of the book of revelation is the invitation of 3:20 Behold I stand at the door of your heart, If you will open the door I will come in and supp with you and you with me. Great location for that particular invitation, Right before John discribes the coming events !! IMHO Gary / Moz

[Floydsbuick]

Revelation.....good stuff.

The Seven churches back then were all in present day Turkey.

Patmos wasn't no picnic, besides exile this was a sentence of hard labor!

I'll be curious as your study progresses how you feel about the rapture. Pre-tribulation, during, or post-tribulation.

Gary brings up a great point, since Satan himself disguises himself as an Angel of light. Daniel complements Revelation very well.

[RACEBUICKS]

One thing I was interested in was, can you imagine what he was looking at? OR trying to write down what he saw? It would be like explaining a Microwave oven to someone from the 1600's (electricity....whats that) (Microwaves???? HUH????)

[badbuick]

Revelation is a good choice for a study. I will read on it, and hopefully weigh in with some comments. With all that is going in our world, the days spoken of may be closer than we think. I'll look forward to following along and learning as well. TW

[bob k. mando]

I'll be curious as your study progresses how you feel about the rapture. Pre-tribulation, during, or post-tribulation.

you forget "amillennial".




i'm a whacko. most dispensationalist christians wonder why the United States "isn't" in Revelations. if you take Rev to be true, i suspect that the US actually is portrayed. and it's not very pretty.

[GSXMEN]

i'm a whacko. most dispensationalist christians wonder why the United States "isn't" in Revelations. if you take Rev to be true, i suspect that the US actually is portrayed. and it's not very pretty.

Bob - I heard a good explanation of that the other night. Since there are so many that claim to be Christian in this country, it's likely that a good chunk of that population will be caught up in the Rapture. That would leave some serious issues with all sorts of areas in the country....cops, firefighters, pilots, military, etc.

It would leave this country in a crippled state.

Dan - I absolutely believe the Rapture to take place BEFORE the tribulation. I don't think for one second that the Lord would put His children thru that. Can't say that I've ever heard a Preacher make a solid case otherwise either. Graham, Falwell, Haggai, etc. all preach(ed) a Pre-tribulation Rapture.

[mrgransport]

I am a pre-millenium person. I believe that the US is referenced in Revelations, but not as a world power and is not really referenced after I believe the 3rd chapter. Also, GSXMEN I agree with your view. It says " Because you have kept the word of my patience I will keep you from the hour of temptation. "(Rev 3:10) I think God will take the believers out of this world prior to the wrath he pours out on it and see this as his promise to do so. Very interesting study. Will definetely make you search your soul to make sure you are right with God.

Gary: Hal Lindsey is one of my favorite reads. Has some very interesting views on the end times. Great to see his writing brought you to Christ ( or at least provoked you to let the Holy Spirit open your heart).

[badbuick]

Good morning to all of you. I know that you don't know me as I am relatively new to this board, but not to Buicks. When my sons were younger we did a study of Revelation, from a kids perspective of course, as that is what I enjoy the most. I do the elementary chapel services for our Christian school, and have been doing kids ministry for almost 21 years. So, I look forward to talking with adults this time.

I think verse 3, is a good place to start. I see three things here. Read, Hear, and Heed. How blessed we will be to read God's word and keep it in our heart. This verse tells us that we "are" blessed for doing so. And to read Revelation outloud, so you hear the words as well. But the important part is the heeding of what you read. "For the time is near." Getting others to believe that truth is the difficult part. But we didn't believe at one time, and now do. It was the movie, "A Thief in the Night." that drove me to the alter. It is a 70's series of movies about the events of Revelation shot right here in Iowa. If you can locate this series, watch it, you will never be the same.
v.7 "Behold, He is coming with the clouds." I too believe that we will be removed prior to the tribulation. On that day, the unsaved will sadly say, "It was true." That is not a happy thought.

[mrgransport]

Amen! Sobering thought when you think of friends and loved ones that do not know the Lord. A Thief in the Night is an excellent movie.

[davidwroth]

Hello all, after graduation from a dispensational Bible college and attending a convent/reformed church. My views have changed. Has anyone read Hank Hanegraaff’s book “The Apocalypse Code"? OR read/heard what R.C. Sproul has to say? The popular dispensational view of Rev. a VERY new view that has come about during 20th century, so I would advise keeping and open mind about eschatology. Remember that scripture interprets scripture, and we should use an exegetical approach to understanding what is being said. :TU:

David R

[RACEBUICKS]

17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

The writer should have been scard beyond anything. Nothing like standing before Jesus after he had assended. And being shown all this stuff and being asked to right it all down. Nothing like pressure huh??

[custom]

Michael,
Thanks for starting this thread. Revelation is one of the most important books of the Bible as it completes the message of Christ started in Genesis.
One cannot study Revelation without linking it back to the O.T.

Sadly today many denominations and churches shy away from Revelation simply because either one, they feel it is irrelevant or two, it's simply too hard to understand. Neither could be farther from the truth.

Revelation is one of the greatest witnessing tools a Christian has in this day and age for we have the daily news bringing us updates that directly coincide with prophecy. Right before our very eyes we are witnessing the world begin to position itself for what will be the the final assult on Israel and the Jews which we are told will be preceeded by the return of Christ.

[RACEBUICKS]

Mark Swietoniowski =
I can read what is on the v8 site but cannot post because I have webtv.
John had the holy sSpirit to inspire(help him remember) what he saw so
that was not a problem and the fellow that quoted 3:20, well that verse
is for believers and not the unsaved. It is for the back sliden.
Man Isure wish Icoud participate in the study discussion! Mark


I will help someone else join in now too :laugh:

[bimmer1]

Like many of you I love to fish, and as a responsible fisherman I always try to “release” fish that are under/over sized or, are otherwise, out of season. Consequently, I’m sure I am not alone in wondering what those “released” fish think of our world once they return to their own “world” at the bottom of the Gulf. If fish have any cognitive abilities, can you imagine the difficulty it would have in trying to comprehend the strange world he saw during those few seconds? And…what words could he possibly have at his disposal to describe to his friends what he saw? How does one accurately describe a thing that doesn’t exist in his/her reality?

I think John, much like a “fish out of water”, had to search the full breath of his language skill to create word pictures that could accurately describe for us who and what it was he was privileged to see in that vision; and he still comes short. For we still struggle to grasp fully what it is he tries to show us. Indeed, trying to describe, in human language, an otherworldly or Heavenly experience is a virtual impossibility. How can the finite fully grasp the infinite?

Praise God…As always, He comes to our rescue:

“Do not be afraid” He says. “I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. The mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand and of the seven golden lampstands is this: The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.”


In Him,

Tom

[Evans Ward]

I've always had a huge interest in the prophecies so subscribing to this thread! No doubt about it, The Great I Am will hold true to His every word in history that is to come. His word says that in the final battle of Armagedeon, we will see bloodshed at a point that will be more than all other wars combined throughout history! I always think of the great hymn, When the role is called up yonder I'll be there, when I think of end times and very thankful for my salvation decision! Praise God for his many blessings and give thanks in everything! Satan, the great deceiver, will not go down without a bang and a fight, but he and his demons WILL be cast eternally in the lake of fire. As Christians, we must be obediant to a Holy God as to our calling to help fullfil the Great Commission and be fishers of men. I look forward to joining into this discussion but want to leave you believers with this thought.... when was the last time you shared Jesus with someone else?

[GKMoz]

http://www.v8buick.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1077058 Please explain your view on rev 3:20 ? is not Jesus knocking on the heart of every man ? if I am a believer, How can i come in to a place I already am in ? The book itself is prophecy for sure !! but is a warning to man to come to the Savior !! As believers we have some understanding of it. But the unsaved have NONE ! I Cor 2:14 proves that. I to believe we will be taken out BEFORE the 7 year tribulation. If the world is a is crazy as it is now? How in the world could a believer stand the insanity of the tribulation ? As the trib saints will have to endure unimaginable horrors !! As for myself I can hardly stand the craziness of our day ! I think we se the rapture as an escape of the church. But it is actually a glorifying of the Mercy of God ! It marks the last seven years of Jacobs ( 490yrs ) trouble. 483 of which have been fulfilled. there remains 7 years of the O.T. to be fulfilled dealing with the Jewish nation as a whole.remember the the bible has always dealt with the "chosen people" first and formost. the church is just the branch. IMHO Gary / Moz

[chryco63]

Hmm... if I may give a prophecy of my own, I kind of see the intensity of this thread escalating as the discussion continues, since we all hold views and interpretations that can, at times, be quite conflicting, yet are very dear to our hearts. With this potential for the thread, I offer this suggestion: let us not be dogmatic when we present out interpretations. If we disagree, let us agree to disagree. God's grace is great enough to cover differences in interpretation with this incredibly challenging book!

That said, I wish to comment on the passage in 3:20. In essence, I do believe that Jesus stands at the door of the heart of every soul and asks to come in. He died for all, and it's my belief that he doesn't want his gift to go to waste for anybody. However, contextually, 3:20 is in the midst of a passage where Jesus is talking to these seven churches in Asia. I believe this to mean, then, that Jesus is not talking to the unsaved here, but rather a real church of believers, those already saved, who have unfortunately become quite apathetic and materialistic in their religion. Though they profess to be a church, they have, in practice, closed the door to Jesus. Thus, he stands at their door and knocks for them to accept him again, and repent (vs. 19).

Nevertheless, though I would not myself use this as an evangelistic verse, I have no qualms with anyone who has come to know Christ through this verse! To God be the glory, and God bless you all!

[RACEBUICKS]

I think we all know to keep this civil. At least I hope this is what its supposed to be a study of the word.... of God

[chryco63]

I agree, Mike. It's probably that I'm just rather ignorant of everybody's congeniality and am simply stating the obvious above. :) It's just that it's not uncommon in several churches that I know of for people to be quite reactive when confronted with differing opinions, and for emotions to intensify with little room for reason and a peace-loving spirit. However, we are Buick people -- Fast with Class -- and I'm sure that that class permeates all of our lives.

Regardless, I have gone off topic. Back to your regularly scheduled Revelation study... :)

[RACEBUICKS]

Revelation 2
To the church in Ephesus
1"To the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks among the seven golden lampstands: 2I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false. 3You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary. 4Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. 5Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. 6But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
To the Church in Smyrna
8"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:
These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again. 9I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
To the Church in Pergamum
12"To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of him who has the sharp, double-edged sword. 13I know where you live—where Satan has his throne. Yet you remain true to my name. You did not renounce your faith in me, even in the days of Antipas, my faithful witness, who was put to death in your city—where Satan lives. 14Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: You have people there who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin by eating food sacrificed to idols and by committing sexual immorality. 15Likewise you also have those who hold to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. 16Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. 17He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.
To the Church in Thyatira
18"To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. 24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan's so-called deep secrets (I will not impose any other burden on you): 25Only hold on to what you have until I come. 26To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—
27'He will rule them with an iron scepter;
he will dash them to pieces like pottery'[b]— just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give him the morning star. 29He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

[RACEBUICKS]

Nothing like being called to the carpet. It amazes me that he just names names and starts listing the offenses. I kind of throw it as if he is scolding us like children. (as we are)

[bob k. mando]

Bob - I heard a good explanation of that the other night. Since there are so many that claim to be Christian in this country,

operative word being "claim".

if you start comparing the percentage of people who poll as believing in "a god" ( not necessarily having anything to do with christianity ) or even those who claim to be "christian" with the numbers of people of claim to believe in "Hell" or "Satan" and you must very quickly come to the conclusion that there are a very great many people who either have no idea what they're talking about or who don't want to acknowledge the natural conclusion of their professions of 'faith'.




it's likely that a good chunk of that population will be caught up in the Rapture ... It would leave this country in a crippled state.

not what i'm talking about at all. and if you want to look at it from the POV of Revelations, then Laodicea is the church of the last age and provides a clue as to the actual scripture which would address the US specifically as well as addressing the condition of the 'church' within the US :
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%203:14-22;&version=9;
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked




I believe that the US is referenced in Revelations, but not as a world power and is not really referenced after I believe the 3rd chapter.

just to make things clear to everyone reading, i disagree with your qualifier.





It's just that it's not uncommon in several churches that I know of for people to be quite reactive when confronted with differing opinions, and for emotions to intensify with little room for reason and a peace-loving spirit.

well, there's little reason for some denominations to be cooperative with the standard dispensationalist interpretation of various verses. Roman Catholics, fer instance, would be hard pressed to view you kindly.

[badbuick]

"To him who overcomes", is key in this chapter. We all get so caught up in living that the seriousness of how we live becomes less important. God means business. He says, don't do this, but be this way instead. Repent, repent, He says. Chapter 2 reads like the evening news. I wonder if all of the people who claim to be Christians, really voted the values that are precious to true Christianity, would our government and courts be different? Today the world calls evil, good, and good, evil. That goes against the grain of chapter 2.

[RACEBUICKS]

Revelation 3
To the Church in Sardis
1"To the angel[a] of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b]of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the Church in Philadelphia
7"To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:
These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open. 8I know your deeds. See, I have placed before you an open door that no one can shut. I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. 9I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you. 10Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. 11I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. 13He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
To the Church in Laodicea
14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:
These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent. 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."