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View Full Version : Group Purchase - Crane Nailhead Roller Cam BLANKS!! - $150



BuickStreet
02-26-2003, 02:57 PM
Ok Nailheaders, here's a fantastic opportunity to buy a Crane Cams Roller cam blank. Price is $150 and the 'banker' will be Lee F Schelin from the NailheadBuick group at Yahoo.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/NailHeadBuick/

He needs 40-50 orders to make this happen and is already receiving a good response from that group but they have asked me to pass the word onto this group and also the BPG.

He is in touch with Jim Hill of Crane Cams who said this...


Lee:

Yes, I did investigate and found that we haven't had steel roller cam cores
for the Nailhead motor in 15-20 years. If there was sufficient interest we
could make a run of them, but we usually require a minimum of about 40 to
tool up to produce cores. This number is dictated by the capacity of our
carburizing furnaces, 40 per batch.

We do have many cam lobe profiles available for the early Buick, but a cam
core would have to be supplied or a flat-tappet cam in good condition
provided for a regrind. As I mentioned in earlier correspondence, regrinds
on flat-face cams (hyd or mech) are risky, and always prone to early wear.
Spring pressure must be carefully considered, as excessive pressure will
hasten the move of cam lobes into metallic particles that clog up the oil
filter!

As for roller lifters, I find that we did not make any roller lifters for
the Buick, ever. I'm not familiar with the oil system in these engines, but
if you will send me a pair of your tappets I'll check them out and see if
there's anything we have that might work. Of course, Isky was a viable and
reliable source for these, so you might begin by starting there.

Ironically, Pete Robinson, the man who literally "put Crane Cams on the
map", started his hot rod career with a '40 Ford coupe powered by a 6-71
blown Nailhead motor. Pete drove it both on the street, daily, as well as
street raced in the Atlanta area, during his Georgia Tech student days.
Harvey Crane ground Pete a special cam for his Nailhead. That satisfaction
established a lifelong relationship with Pete and Crane, cut all too short
by Pete's untimely death at Pomona, in '71.

-Jim Hill


Then in a later thread...


Lee:

To produce an 8620 steel, carburized "Semi-Finished Cam Core" would cost $150.00 per cam. That delivers a core that has been heat treated (carburized), has a distributor drive gear, rough-shaped cam lobes in correct index (with stock Buick pattern), and ready for finish grinding by any cam company the purchaser selects.

Our normal policy is to ask for an up-front committment of about one-half of the total amount before we could schedule production.
-Jim Hill


Then in a later thread...


The "lobe spacing" will be as specified for the stock Buick prints. These must be turned out of 8620 bar stock, into a "round-lobe" core, then CNC machined on one of our big cam mills. This would be consistent throughout the production run of cores. As far as profile, I would say that the cores will handle anything an engine builder would want to throw at a Buick Nailhead V-8.

- Jim Hill


You can follow the thread by logging into the Yahoo NailheadBuick group but this is one of the latest posts by Lee F Schelin

OKay guys, after discussing the cam deal with Jim Hill of Crane, he
wants me to act as the banker. So if you want a Crane Roller Cam Core,
show me the money....LOL

Cost will be $150 each plus shipping

Send your $$$ to

Standard 1320 Productions
c/o Lee Schelin
2911 East Vista Street Unit D
Long Beach CA 90803

Stick a note in your envelope that your check is for the Crane cam.

I will not cash any check until we have enough funds for all 40 cams.
Once the funds are here, I'll make a check out to Crane and deposit your
check in my Standard 1320 account

This is a rare oppotunity to obtan a roller cam blank that after getting your heads flowed can be ground specifically for your application by any grinder you like. The benefit over a replacement or re-ground cam is that...


...The other cams are preground, most are regrinds of stock cams. That means you can't get the lift if you need something with a little more whomph ...If you've had your ports cleaned up or a major porting job then the only way you can get the correct grind is to start with a core. Remember you can't determine what the cam grind should be until you've had the heads flowed. Once that's completed, the cam grinder can determine the best grind for your engine

Let's support this group purchase as it might be a long while before we get another opportunity like this again.

BuickStreet
02-26-2003, 05:38 PM
The boards been busy and this post dissapeared off the list within a few minutes. TTT for those who missed it earlier.

CTX-SLPR
02-27-2003, 12:49 AM
Howdy,

While it would be nice to have something like this, if there are no compatable roller lifters how would we use something like this and wouldn't it mandate the use of roller rockers as well? If you could get us a list of where to get all the parts to put together a viable valve train to untilize the roller blank ground to our specs it would be alot more enticing to alot of us I bet. I know roller rockers are offered but they take big orders for them too. I'm also leary about no lifters or matching springs for a such a cam.

Thanks,

BuickStreet
02-27-2003, 12:57 AM
Obviously I don't have a vested interest in these cams other than wanting to pass on the news but he does say...


Isky was a viable and reliable source for these, so you might begin by starting there.

I'd say the best thing to do is to go and join the Yahoo group (which I think is a must for any Nailhead lover anyway) and ask them as they seem to have many of these answers. The thread has been going for some time and the question of the roller lifters might have already been answered. I'll check tonight when I get home.

In the meantime...

I believe Tom Telesco is in the final stages of developing his roller rockers and with the entire valve train being 'roller-ised' would make a great improvement to any Nailhead. In fact I'm not sure I'd use a roller cam without using Tom's Roller rockers.

Tom, any input on this?

BuickStreet
02-28-2003, 05:04 AM
I don't believe that Hydraulic Roller Lifters were ever available for a NailHead. I am in contact with a company now about the availability of Hydraulic Rollers, but they won't be available for 3-4
months. It's thru Schubeck Racing.

Just today I sent Lee some info about them. I ordered a set of Flat Tappet Hydraulic Racing Lifters to try in my stocker '64 Riv. They aren't cheap at $720.00 plus shipping & they would have to be used with some kind of adjustable valve train, pushrods or rockers. I'm sure Hydraulic Rollers are more, I believe Joe told me around $960.00.

The positive side is they don't need any break-in, can be re-used over & over again on any hydraulic cam, new or used, will not wear out cam or lifters, & can be put back in any hole if the motor comes apart again for any reason. This is especially appealing to racers who may try many diff. cams to find the best combo.

BuickStreet
02-28-2003, 05:55 AM
I don't know about you guys but I'm dreaming of a full roller Nailhead. Hang on...I'm not dreaming at all, it's about to become a reality!

Tom's roller rockers+crane roller cam+dual quads+TA headers...somebody pinch me!

Dan K
02-28-2003, 06:02 PM
I am very interested in a roller cam, but a blank cam? I personally don't know anything about the grind that a nailhead would like, and if I did, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea about who to have grind it. Maybe Carmen Faso would have some ideas.....Dan

BuickStreet
02-28-2003, 06:14 PM
Dan, you don't have to know. The beauty of getting a blank is that you can have it ground to suit your application exactly. Cams should be ground to suit the flow of your heads, the size and tune of your carb, the weight of your car, the gearing of your rear end, your gearbox type and the intended driving application. I'm sure that there are people who will help you determine the specs of your cam based on their collective experience if you give them these specs. The problem with getting an existing cam reground is that you usually have to compromise things like the base circle. I'm obviously not an expert but I believe that you are limited in the lift available from a stock reground cam as the only way to get extra lift is to reduce the base circle which ends up too small requiring custom pushrods and can possibly lead to your lifters fowling on the cam bearing shoulders.

Vendors like TA Performance, Tom Telesco, Carmen Faso or any of the cam builders etc... would all be able to assist you in determining the exact specs of your cam. I suppose you could do it backwards and build your motor to suit a readily available cam profile but the choices are limited and may not suit your intended application. Sure it's a pricey alternative but at least now you will have the choice. The trick to getting the most out of your engine is in the matching of your parts to the cam and at least now you will have the opportunity to tune it to get the most of your engine.

Dan K
03-01-2003, 07:59 AM
Hi Bill,
I don't know a whole lot about roller cams, and perhaps that is part of the problem. As I understand it, they reduce friction, but a major advantage is that you are not limited to a purely egg shaped eccentric profile. You can use a figure 8 profile if it suits your needs. There aren't a whole lot of guys out there with Buick nailhead experience like Carmen or Tom, and I don't know how much collective experience they have with a roller cam in the nailhead. That stuff requires a lot of experimentation, I would think. It's probably fairly easy for the Chevy guys to call the machine shop and have them "plug in the numbers" to get the grind they want, but then there are problems with indexing, etc. Even new boxed cams have to be indexed. Is it the same process for a roller cam? While I am not averse to buying a few blanks while they are available, I'm not sure I'd be better off than just buying a tried and true conventional cam that was worked out with racing experience. 150.00 apiece sounds like a great price, but if I get them both ground, and they don't optimize my particular package, I could be worse off than with a "blueprint" grind. Maybe Tom or Carmen can help me out here. Is it really that easy to call the grinder and have him grind the optimal nailhead cam for me? Again, I think my lack of knowledge is holding me back.....Thanks, Dan

IgnitionMan
03-01-2003, 12:35 PM
As you know, I do a lot of aluminum Buicl/Rover work.

Those lifter bores can get nasty after lots of miles, and bushing them is a real pain, and severely weakens the lifter holder bores.

I don't sleeve the lifter bores in those engines any more, I simply bore the lifter holes to accept the next diameter in the food chaini, Ford small block lifters.

Since there aren't any Nailhead roller lifters, solid or hydraulic, why not use the next easily available parts. Just have to make sure theire isn't a lobe to adjacent lifter interference problem.

In the case of my aluminum stuff, the difference in lifter bore diamerter from the stock lifter to the Ford is .013/.015 difference. More than enough clearance for no interference issues between adjacent lobes to lifters.

Might look into alrternate makes of roller lifters.

Dan K
05-05-2010, 07:04 PM
I don't believe that Hydraulic Roller Lifters were ever available for a NailHead. I am in contact with a company now about the availability of Hydraulic Rollers, but they won't be available for 3-4
months. It's thru Schubeck Racing.

Just today I sent Lee some info about them. I ordered a set of Flat Tappet Hydraulic Racing Lifters to try in my stocker '64 Riv. They aren't cheap at $720.00 plus shipping & they would have to be used with some kind of adjustable valve train, pushrods or rockers. I'm sure Hydraulic Rollers are more, I believe Joe told me around $960.00.

The positive side is they don't need any break-in, can be re-used over & over again on any hydraulic cam, new or used, will not wear out cam or lifters, & can be put back in any hole if the motor comes apart again for any reason. This is especially appealing to racers who may try many diff. cams to find the best combo.

I know this is an old post, but did they ever make thse roller lifters? Dan

funkyriv
05-06-2010, 08:54 AM
This post is from a long time ago. Did the order for the Crane roller camshafts workout? Will they ever do this again?

TA Performance claims to have NH roller lifters in their catalogue.

87GN@Tahoe
05-06-2010, 04:09 PM
TA is doing a hydraulic roller cam for the nailhead now...

I thought Crane Cams was liquidated sometime last year?

425 2X4 Nailhd
05-07-2010, 10:46 AM
TA is doing a hydraulic roller cam for the nailhead now...

I thought Crane Cams was liquidated sometime last year?
Yes Crane is long gone.
S & S bought the remains, I believe they only make Motorcycle Cams now.
Howards Cams still has Roller cams and Roller Lifters for the Nailhead.

Opelsauce
05-07-2010, 12:04 PM
Called Howard's and was told that they do NOT have a roller cam or lifters for the Nailhead! Infact, they make NOTHING for it.:(
---Jim

TABuickMike
05-07-2010, 02:07 PM
TA Performance claims to have NH roller lifters in their catalogue.

Yes we have roller cams and lifters for the Nailhead engines :beers2:

SpecialWagon65
05-07-2010, 03:15 PM
Yes we have roller cams and lifters for the Nailhead engines :beers2:

Cool, thanks Mike...someday...

GSBuick65
05-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Yes we have roller cams and lifters for the Nailhead engines :beers2:

dont see anything online, how much are lifters? got any specs on cams?

funkyriv
05-08-2010, 01:18 AM
dont see anything online, how much are lifters? got any specs on cams?

See this older thread for pics, info and prices on cam, grind and lifters.

http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=177998&highlight=roller+cam+nailhead

TA perf link for NH roller cam (http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA%5FROL%2D401) - you specify the grind.

Search TA website for "1412" and there is a listing for "Hydraulic Roller Lifter - $495" - However, this same part number indicates "400-430-455 Hydraulic Roller Lifters - $345" in the current download catalogue.

TABuickMike
05-11-2010, 03:01 AM
I might not have them online, look through the catalog I know they're there for sure

Dan K
05-14-2010, 07:25 PM
Yes we have roller cams and lifters for the Nailhead engines :beers2:

God Bless you Mike! I have my nailhead at the machine shop right now: Mike Smith Machine in FTW, TX (817-626-6800). It'll be getting 8 sleeves, due to a pantload bodyshop in OK leaving it outside without the air cleaner. It's the numbers matching block AND my first car, so I have to eat the cost and save the original engine. Too, it might be one of the Police Interceptors.....long story, but short on paperwork proof.
Anyway, I would VERY much like to use one of your roller setups in it, as well as ANY other nailhead goodies that you (and I) have, to keep it externally stock appearing, but internally stout. I also have Tom Telasko's roller rockers, that I'd like to use in it. Do you recommend or not recommend using roller rockers with your cam? Would you be able to talk to the builder and come up with a grind to max out my application? I am sure I will need one of your timing covers, stainless valves, true roller timing chain, oil pump, etc. I will be going back to standard bore with the sleeves...Do you recommend(or have in stock) 10.25 standard forged pistons? Any help is appreciated. I'll pay any phone bills that you generate, in helping Mike Smith with this engine. Thanks, Dan