Spiral core plug leads add power!

[BuickStreet]

Well they did for me anyway.

My old ignition leads where a set of Bosch 'high performance'. I was trying to diagnose a slight miss at idle that's been bothering me for a while. My ignition leads where a year old so it was time to change them (just to be sure).

As I was removing them I checked their resistance on an ohm meter. The old ones measured 4.75 - 5.0 Kilo ohms. The shorter ones had slightly less resistance than the longer ones which was to be expected.

I bought a set of 9mm Spiral core high performance leads and was really surprised to find that they measured 1.5 - 1.9 kilo ohms! The first one I measured I thought I must have a dud but they all measured consistently at around that level of resistance reducing with the length of the lead. I thought "fair enough as long as they all measure evenly there shouldn't be a problem".

What I didn't expect was the quite impressive power increase with no other changes other than the ignition leads. I was literally startled when I drove it up the street on it;s maiden voyage with the new leads and smiled and said "allllll right!" to myself. It is definite and noticeable mostly on the bottem end which has gained a healthy boost.

Anyway, it might be something to check. Get your ohmsmeter out and make sure that that spark has the least resistance to the plug as possible. Next I'm going to try opening the plug gap to .050" as Dave suggested. I guess that less resistance equals more spark gets to the plug - obviously.

[Smartin]

I wonder if this is my problem....

My motor has a slight miss every few seconds. I haven't investigated much yet, but will.

[BuickStreet]

What sort of ignition (plug) leads do you have on at the moment Adam?

Just for the record, the leads improved the idle but there is a slight missfire that is still present. The extra power was an unexpected bonus though. Not sure if this helps HEI's only or if it will also help normal points distributors. It's worth a try though.

[Smartin]

When you refer to igintion leads, do you mean plug wires? I am running Bosch Super whatevers...auto zone special order stuff.

[BuickStreet]

Yes I mean plug wires. I think there's a culture gap going on here. I wonder how many people have skipped over this thread because they don't know aht the heck I'm going on about. Next thing you'll be telling me is that you're not sure what a "dizzy" if a "diff" is. Crikeys mate! What's a bloke godda do to be understood around here? What with all the weird spelling you guys use an' all.

[Smartin]

Maybe I should visit Australia and see the country...

Any vixens in your part of town?:Brow:

[Ivan]

Hello all,

As far as ignition wires go i always found magnecor site to be a good read:
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm

Check out the "truth" and "faq" sections in particular.
They seem to make some nice points here and there.

[IgnitionMan]

Same cylinder misfiring all the time, or random cylinders??

[Smartin]

feels random to me...never a steady break.

[BuickStreet]

Mate! This place is full of gorgeous women. I'm surprised that you guys don't visit more often! And the way your dollar is worth more than our dollar it'd be pretty good value too. No worries about that.

Dave, good point, not sure. It's not as serious as it was when I had the old 'plug wires' on but seems to happen more when it's in gear than when it's resting at idle in park. Sometimes there will be a shudder that rocks the entire car. Funny thing is that when I move it to high stall it actually gets worse than when it's in low stall. Is that some sort of a clue?

In idle, it seems to have a nice rumble that sounds like a drummer doing triplets at a constant rate. It actually idles much better than many engines I have had before and I wouldn't normally worry about it but have known this engine to idle completely smooth as low as 450rpm (currently it's set at 500). A glass of water on the air cleaner wouldn't ripple. Not so anymore. One thing I have done is remove the carb spacer form under the Q-Jet in case it's fuel distribution as I noticed that my front two plugs on each bank where slightly blacker than the rear two (on each side) which where perfect. I was going to re-install it last weekend but got sidetracked. How would I tell what cylinder was misfiring?

[IgnitionMan]

Too lean/vacuum leak/valve clearance and too lean/vacuum leak/valve clearance. Check booster lines, check valves, PCV system for correct weighting valve for the engine package, etc.

Bill, my friend, Barry Sheene, died in Gold Coast this morning, just before the Daytona 200. He was a former two time world champion in Formula 1 motorcycles. Throat and stomach cancer, diagnosed nine months ago. I got up this morning, and got the strangest feeling, and told myself Barry had died just a few minutes earlier. Phone rang, confirmed it. Very strange.

[Adam Whitman]

Sorry for your loss of a friend. It must have been very interesting to have a friend that was as great at something as Barry Sheene was at racing. I'm too young to have "been there" when he was racing, but have seen footage on a movie called "Taking it to the Limit" I believe. Any moorcycle racing fan should recognize the name. You were definitely in the presence of greatness.

[BuickStreet]

Sorry to hear about Barry. I heard it last night but didn't remember that he was your friend. Now that you mention it though I do remember that you mentioned it during my visit.

Regarding the PCV valve. I was not aware that there where different weights. How can I determine if mine is corerct? To be honest I just popped into my local GM dealership and asked for a replacement 90 degree PCV.

Now that you mention the booster, when I switch the engine off I can clearly hear vacuum escaping from it. It's been like that ever since I bought the car and because the brakes work fine and seem quite powerful I figured that the booster was getting enough vacuum for it to operate correctly. I never imagined that it would have this effect on performance. I'll get it rebuilt as soon as possible. It could be the valve also I suppose (and hope). I'll check it out and let you know if the problem persists.

[baking]

Sorry if this is a stupid question but..........

Is Spiral Core a name brand, or is it the way the wires (leads) are manufactured?

:Do No:

[BuickStreet]

There are no stupid questions on V8Buick.com.

The core of a spiral core spark plug lead consists of a core of wire which is made of a tightly wound very thin wire. You can have a small 1/2 inch section of this spiral core and unwind it for may metres (or yards if you prefer).

[baking]

There are no stupid questions on V8Buick.com.

Is that a challenge? :laugh:


What would be a good brand to get?
Thanks!

[SpecialWagon65]

Hey Bill, if that booster is making a hissing noise it may be the rubber cup right behind the master cylinder. I had one dried out and leaking, fixed it and changed the idle considerably. Its a pretty easy fix- Prior to investigation I was thinking I had to rebiold the whole booster, man what a relief.

[IgnitionMan]

Look at the hole on the engine side fo the PCV valve. The "plunger" inside it should have a letter and/or number on it. This number is the loading of the PCV valve for the vacuum level it operates properly on.

Examples:
Stock Chevy 283, 327, stock cam: 2
1966 427/425 Corvette, solid lifter big cam: 6

Easiest way to get a PCV valve that works is to get into the catalogue specs for each part number, then go check the loading numbering for each, then select the one closest to the vacuum level you need.

I was Yvon duHamel's mechanic at Kawasaki, 1973 thru 1976. Built/tuned H2R and F9R race bikes, for Yvon. Up until 1996, I had my won 240GP team, raced all over the world. I know/knew all those people whom raced and built/tuned.

[BuickStreet]

Great tip Ted, thanks very much, I'll check it out. It sure will be a relief if that's the problem. I'll let you know. Is it a special part or could I make one from rubber stock? That is, is it flat rubber or is it moulded into a special shape?

Dave, great info once again. You should write a book about your (mis?) adventures. I'd certainly buy it. You're a regular "Smokey" you are. The number on my PCV is 2072 "Made in USA". Not sure where I'm going to be able decipher that number. I guess I'll start with the GMH service department. Or, is there a correct one that I can buy from over there? My vacuum is 22 at idle.

[Adam Whitman]

IgnitionMan said:Look at the hole on the engine side fo the PCV valve. The "plunger" inside it should have a letter and/or number on it. This number is the loading of the PCV valve for the vacuum level it operates properly on.

Examples:
Stock Chevy 283, 327, stock cam: 2
1966 427/425 Corvette, solid lifter big cam: 6

Easiest way to get a PCV valve that works is to get into the catalogue specs for each part number, then go check the loading numbering for each, then select the one closest to the vacuum level you need.

I was Yvon duHamel's mechanic at Kawasaki, 1973 thru 1976. Built/tuned H2R and F9R race bikes, for Yvon. Up until 1996, I had my won 240GP team, raced all over the world. I know/knew all those people whom raced and built/tuned.

I never knew that! I wonder what number the PCV valve is that you get from FRAM at Wal-Mart? :Dou:

Guys like you are my heroes. I admit I'm too much of a hack to make a GP bike sing, but sure like to dream about the idea. Pretending I'm Eddie Lawson when cruising the passes on my GPz is as close as I'll get. Now if it were only a race-series ELR..

I bet you've got some great stories to tell.

[SpecialWagon65]

Bill, its a cup about 2" diameter(5 cm) and 2" deep. Molded special, would be impossible to fab from flat stock. If you need one, let me know, i probably have a used one around that would be servicable. I have not tried to buy a new one. Cheers,

[BuickStreet]

Thanks Ted, if mine works out to be unserviceable and I can't find a NOS or new one I'll definitely take you up on that offer.

From your experience, is it possible to just unbolt the booster and have a look? Or, does the process of removing the booster destroy the gasket. I'm thinking that if it's old and stuck it might be a pain to remove and I don't want the Electra off the road while I'm waiting for a replacement to arrive.

BTW I walked past a workmate of mine's desktop the other day and guess which car he had as his wallpaper? You guessed it, the rear 3/4 view of your Wildcat.

[IgnitionMan]

Smokey was a great friend of 32 years.

I found him walking around the pits at Daytona Bike Week, 1994, looking for another friend of mine, Merrill Van Der Slice, AMA competition director. So...I walk him over to the AMA office in the Firestone Garage.

Merrill asked him if he had to pay to get into the race track, I said "Merril, he probably has keys to the whole place!". Smokey pulled 'em out and showed Merril the whole ring of keys for Daytona. Merrill was impressed. Just priceless.

The next day, Merrill, Smokey and I are walking down the pit road, all the way to the end where the Harleys are, and we are having a serious discussion on camshaft design and engine stuff, when we pass a whole group of motorcycle magazine editors and tech writers, and all I hear from them muttering is, "Oh, man, he really does know Smokey Yunick". Yup, I did, he was a good guy, all the way. I got asked every tech question those magazine people could think of for a whole year after that, what a pain.

[BuickStreet]

Dave, if I ever become wealthy enough (and I'm working on it - my current income doesn't feed my Buick addiction) I'm going to hire you a nice secretary and you can just dictate all your stories to her (if you can keep your mind on the job). I'll then publish it and we'll all make a fortune. How's that for a plan?

On the question of PCV valves ratings. I have made a couple of phone calls to the local speed shops and no one has ever heard of different PCV valves. they say "a pcv is a pcv is a pcv" :rolleyes: Can you see what I have to deal with? In any case I'm going to attack it from a power booster angle becuase I've heard vacuum escaping from the power booster every time I shut the engine down ever since I bought it. I think that that might be my problem. Might it explain the 'lean ping' I'm experiencing on the other thread? I'm having a bit of a hard time putting the chain of vacuum events together in my head. Any chance of one of your famous explanations?

The Smokey story was the coolest daddy 'o.

[CyberBuick]

Dave, sorry to hear about Barry. I never heard of most of the people you or anyone else talks about, but just from stories of years gone by you can tell they were great people. It's a sad day when you loose a great person, there aren't too many of them in the world today. :(

Bill: If you want a certain PVC valve, lemme know and I'll toss one in the box tomorrow. They're usually a cheap item..

[IgnitionMan]

Yup, inexpensive, but the shipping is just killer. 22 inches of vacuum probably will work just finme with a 1966 nailhead PCV valve. You reaslly do need to get the booster problem(s) resolved firast, then tacle the PCV. You may also need to restrict the amount of orifice size of the vacuum port for the PCV, with a simple hole drilled in a plug of some sort. When you get the booster dialed in, do the PCV, and if you have trouble then, get back to me and we'll get it dialed.

Monday, I went to my sister's place, and took her all around, and went to get mail at an alternate mailing address. It is at a pal's place, Steve Whitelock, at his business. Steve sells sprockets, handlebars and chain for motorcycles, used to work on Yvon's stuff with me, good troops. I told him about Barry.

His second job is Chief Tech Inspector, FIM World Superbike Championship Series. These are the kind of low-life reprobates I have been associated with all my life.

I got asked a bunch of questions about this and that motorcycle related, Steve had a bunch of new rules he had to get straight, then implement, so I got dunned for info. My pal, Mr. Questions!

Cyber, you get started on the Guardrail Killer yet??

[BuickStreet]

Thanks Scott.

If you can buy a pcv that is suitable for 22 inches of vacuum then by all means buy one and throw it in with all the rest of the stuff. Make sure it is a right angle one though and not a straight one.

Also, you may as well ask if they have the little rubber gasket/boot that Ted (Specialwagon65) mentioned in the previous post. I doubt it but it's worth a try. I won't be able to pull the booster apart for a couple of weeks but when I do it'd be a shame if I can't replace it.

Dave, unfortunately my car didn't come with a PCV valve. It just had a hose running from the valve cover to the air cleaner :rolleyes: . It wasn't even sealed at the air cleaner, or the valve cover for that matter. It was an oily mess. Ever since I plumbed the new PCV valve to the rear of my new Q-Jet it has been the driest engine I've ever owned. Not a drop of oil anywhere. All I do know is dust it down every now and then. In fact I have to oil the rag a bit so I can get a shine off my black valve covers! These engines are good in many respects including being able to keep a good seal around the valve covers. Must be those two centre (aussie spelling) bolts that apply even pressure on the whole cover.

Just going back to the original reason for this thread; Dave does the extra power/smoothness of the engine since I installed the spiral core plug wires surprise you? None of the old wires where faulty as they all read a steady 4.5 - 5 kilo ohms (reducing with length) and they didn't fluctuate when I wiggled them around like a dud would. Did I measure them correctly? One thing's for sure. I can definately feel more power - especially on the bottom end and it's not my imagination as I didn't change anything else except the wires. They have been on for over a week now and I still enjoy the feeling of more power when I take off - especially in low stall so it must be an appreciable amount.

[CyberBuick]

Dave: Nope, not yet.. Still at war with the insurance company... Have I mentioned today that I hate them? :af:

Bill: I sent you a YM.. I suppose I could send a PM since your at work.. :gt:

[62electra225]

I just had my brake booster rebuilt and I had a vacuum issue too. The first time I got my booster back you could hear it sucking so I sent it back and they found the problem, some plates inside weren't sealing up, hence the leak they replaced them and got it back to me 2 days after I sent it (they are in Oregon, I'm in Washington) now it works like a dream. Just my 2 cents if it is your booster.

[SpecialWagon65]

Bill, all you have to do is remove the 2 bolts on your master cyl. and pull. I was able to take one off in good condition from a parts car, no breakage. The one on the red car(with the good looking 3/4 view!) was all dried out-it was brittle and broke coming out, but I didn't really try to save it. I think you have to take the pedal loose inside the car to slip the new cup on.

TN

[62electra225]

If I can do it you certainly can. It takes me no more than 15 minutes and that's just because I have so many wires blocking the way.

[IgnitionMan]

Bill, you need that hose from the air filter assembly to the valve cover, allows clean air to enter the engine so the PCV valve can suck it through the system.

You also need to find out if the Q-Jet has a large hose nipple at the front of the carb. PCV valves like having the vacuum pull as close to the front plates as possible.

As I said earlier, you may need to restrict the volume flow through the PCV valve, but that is for after all the rest of it is dialed.

[BuickStreet]

Fresh air get's into the engine from a filtered Oil filler cap/breather from one valve cover. I used the other valve cover for the PCV through the large port at the back of the carb. There also is a large port on the front of the carb also if you think I should use that I could give it a try.

Have a look and see if it's the one you are picturing...

http://www.buickstreet.com/buickstreettech-carterqjet.html

[CyberBuick]

Those photos look similar to the pos carb on the chevy.. If they're that similar, then the PCV port is missing.. I see the cutout area for it but it's not there. It'd be to the left (looking at the front) of the port in the middle on the base plate. The port in the middle is the evap can port. The large port in the rear goes to the power brake booster..

As to what the mass of other ports do is beyond me.. I look at the engine bay and wonder why they filled it with so much crap..

[IgnitionMan]

Cyber's right, no front PCV port, use the rear one. Might have to restrict the oriface size of the hose going from the T to the PCV valve. Let full vacuum to booster, restricted to the PCV. I'd start with a .065 hole in the restrictor. Ristrictor can be a slug of aluminum dowel rod, fitted into the hose.

[BuickStreet]

Actually I have the power booster plumbed directly into the manifold like it was originally from the factory.

The large rear port on the carb is what I use for PCV. I think that I'll concentrate on the power booster as the possible source of my vacuum leak seeing as I can actually hear a hissing come from it when I switch the motor off.

What I should try is removing the power booster source from the vacuum chain by unplugging it from the power booster and temporarily plugging it up to see if my idle improves. That way I will know for sure if the power booster leak is causing my idle problem. I should also do the same with the PCV valve. Not sure why I haven't done this before. I'll do it today and it will help us decide what area to work on - the carb itself, the large draw caused by too much vacuum going to the PCV or the leaking power booster.

And it's not really a serious problem because it does idle at 500 like the manual suggests - it's just that it has an uneven stumble every now and then and when I first put this new carb on it idled smooth as glass. Though Dave, your restricter idea sounds interesting. .065"...that's about 1.5mm right?

[JR]

Bill S,

You wrote on 3/10/03 6:19pm 'How would I tell what cylinder was misfiring?'

With the engine running at about 800 rpm try removing one ignition wire at a time from a spark plug. Re-connect the lead and go to the next plug and do the same thing. What you're looking for is which wire removed from a plug doesn't make a noticeable difference in the engines' performance?

See if that helps identify the cylinder that is misfiring...

JR

[BuickStreet]

Thanks JR.

Dave, I cut piece of brass round bar, chamfered the ends so it would slide in easy and drilled a 1/16 hole through it. Shoved it into the vacuum hose near the carb end and started 'er up. It seems to have made a difference. I also put the digital tach onto it and found that it was idling at about 475 rpm in drive (high stall) so I adjusted it up to the correct 500 rpm and it seems to have smoothed out somewhat. Of course by this time the motor was fully warmed up but it does seem to have helped. Neat trick. Thanks.

I'm still concerned about the vacuum loss when I shut it down which comes from the power booster 'area' but without a replacement rubber I'm loath to pull it apart and inspect.

[IgnitionMan]

No, nope, nada...NEVER pull a wire off a running engine's spark plug, or out of the cap, with an electroninc ignition system. Just plain DON'T DO IT.

The spark energy has to be dissipated to ground for the system to remain stabile, and removing the ground path (spark plug) WILL cause the energy to backfeed and seriously overwork/overload both the coil and the HEI, or any other make electronic module, quite possibly to failure.

Same thing goes for spinning the engine over with the coil and/or plug wires disconnected or the plugs out of the engine. Disable the system so it will not make spark if you have to spin the engine with the starter motor.

Bill, sounds like you have it on the run.....Forward>

[BuickStreet]

Dave, I remember you saying to very cautious when pulling plugs. Especiall off one of your HEI systems. I was going to find your advice which you posted on this board before about that before I did it anyway.

Yeah the idle seems to be a little better now. I'll know a bit more in a few days of testing.

Just on the ignition thing - while I've got you - what is the best way to energise the ignition so I can play with my switch pitch control (which needs 12 volts to it in order to read off my multi-meter) so I can adjust it. It reads 12 volts in the accessory position but I'm worried about destroying one of your components if I leave it on too long. Is it ok to leave it on accessory for a while?

[JR]

:Dou:

Bill S,

IgnitionMan is correct. I spoke without thinking you were running HEI. Keep forgetting some guys are not running OEM ignitions on their nailheads.

Sorry for the gaffe.

JR