Sloan Info: Two Stumpers

[buick72]

Hi..

I just got my VIN Research info back from the Sloan Museum..very helpful for my '72 Skylark..

I couldn't understand two items (and the Sloan people didn't know the answers, either..)

So here are the stumpers:

1) There is a category on the print-out that says 'NVI Hrs.', with a number. Mine was 2.4. What does this mean..?

2) On the key codes, there is a selction marked 'N or C'. Mine was coded 'N'. Could this be nickel or chrome plated keys..?

Maybe somebody can clear up my confusion..

Regards,

Stanley

(FYI: I moved this post from 'The Bench'..'Paper Chase' is a better forum for this question!)

[Marco]

Hi Stanley -

Very nice color combination on your Buick :TU:

Just so everyone understands, the Sloan Museum is a 'Flint Michigan cultural group', centered around the history of their city. They are not Buick people. They basically 'inherited' the Buick information when Buick was moving their warehouse.

The NVI hours box is a stumper, as other people (in the Stage1 registry - all 1972 models) have had that same 4.2 value. I also called Sloan a couple months ago on this same subject and came up empty. FYI - The 'PR LV' box is also currently a mystery.

I thought the N/C was 'No Charge' to the 'shipped to dealer', identified right before the N/C box. :Do No: My Sloan documentation had a line through that box. You can see it Here (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/455stage1/BuickGS/sloan1.jpg).

Another 1972 mystery we have are sales codes LA, LB, and LC so you're not alone in your questions about 1972 Sloan information.

Sorry I couldn't help you solve your dilemma. One day, maybe we'll get to the bottom of this. One day...

[buick72]

Hi Marco..

Thnaks for the comment on the color...yes, it turns a lot of heads in the summer!

Sloan has gotten a lot fancier now..I got my info back on a computer-printed sheet..with less categories.

I can scan and let you see..I don't have the 'pr/lv' category..and the N/C looks definitely next to the key codes..

I posted the dealer info..the dealer was in the GSX(?) list, but listed incorrectly.

If you want it again, let me know..

I believe my car has had enough 'before I got it' work, that the odds of finding a build sheet are low..so I may live in a fog world forever on history of the car.

Regards, Stanley

PS..can you help me get a dig pic sized so I can use it as an avatar..?

[buick72]

Marco..one more thought..

I assume that Buick changed their codes..

LA=old L1
LB=old L2
LC=LA+LB

But it may not be documented anywhere??

I have an 'LC' code on my car..with soft ray glass all around.

Stanley

[Marco]

buick72 said:Marco..one more thought..

I assume that Buick changed their codes..

LA=old L1
LB=old L2
LC=LA+LB

But it may not be documented anywhere??

I have an 'LC' code on my car..with soft ray glass all around.

Stanley

Stanley -

Send me your picture - 455stage1@comcast.net. I'll resize it and send it back :TU:

The LA, LB, and LC are in addition to the L1 and L2 sales codes. They are probably found on 1972 order form - revision #2 which we are currently trying to get. No one has one.

The 1973 order form (also revision #2) uses L3 as an '80 amp Delcotron', and LA is L1 + L3 and LC is L2 + L3. Here (http://mywebpages.comcast.net/455stage1/BuickGS/1973_order_form.jpg) is a copy of the form.

We'll get to the bottom of this...

[buick72]

Marco..

The reason I have a '72 Skylark now...is because I had one in...1972!

It was a base Skylark, 2 dr sport coupe, vinyl roof (black, of course), body color was Cascade Blue, lots of options..great car.

I had it for 18 years, drove it to the junkyard in 1990..broke my heart.

So, I decided to get back in and bought the convertible.

The punchline:

I have all my original docs from 1972..including a bunch of copies of dealer order sheets..that was the only way back then to know what you could/could not order on the car.

I'll look through these tonight..and see what I've got.

I probably can also get you another dealer listing..I lived in NJ at that time and bought the car at Bonnie Buick in Asbury Park. I may have the dealer code on some document.

This is fun!

Stanley

[TimR]

geez Stanley, you have a scanner?? Would love to see copies of those dealer sheets...

Did you ever find that little elbow you were looking for??

later
Tim

[buick72]

Hi Tim..

I have 2 of the three things I wanted..

I have the front wiring harness..I have the vacuum tee..but no, I have not found the '72-only vapor canister-to-air cleaner fitting.

Still hoping a V8Buick-er will come through for me..

Yes, I have a scanner..so I can post whatever you would like to see.

The dealer order sheets are all '72 sheets, from early Winter of '72..that is when I was shopping for my original Skylark. So they are rev 0 or Rev 1 sheets. I don't have the mysterious rev 2 order sheet that Marco is searching for..so we can all learn about the 'LC' code.

I have a copy of all the Skylark models..the base,GS and Sportwagon sheets.

I have my original window sticker from '72..dealer bill of sales, etc.

Let me know what you want to see

Best, Stanley

FYI..started up the car two weeks ago..after 6 months of hibernation..had it out for a ride..looking forward to the upcoming season

[John Diaz]

I don't have an answer on the key N/C issue, but I'd suspect the NVI Hrs. was New Vehicle Inspection. There was a standard charge that the dealers made to the manufacturers for new car prep (probably 2.4 hours in our cars' case); and then I would surmise you could charge extra time if you encountered problems and documented them. When I did new car prep for Chrysler in 78 & 79, any additional problems would have been considered warranty work; but maybe the General did things different way back then... Just a guess....
BTW, I just got my Sloan data this afternoon and my NVI hrs. is 2.6.

[buick72]

John..

We had this subject in a second thread, also..

And a former mechanic also answered with the same info..NVI is new vehicle inspection..and yes, the 2.4 is the alloted hours.

No word yet on what the 'N/C' means..or PR/LV..or what an LA, LB or LC sales code means..

Thanks for confirming the info..

Stanley

[John Diaz]

Gee, Stanley, didn't know we had this thread in more than one place. Maybe the applicable moderator(s) could consolidate them some kind of way. In any case, Glad at least one "stumper" was cleared up :cool: .
Also, Marco, mine is a LA and I have tinted all around, also.... the plot thickens!

[John Diaz]

The N or C could possibly denote whether the figures listed were lock Numbers or key Codes. Just a thought.... (Number/Code)
Only wrench in the works of this theory is that if it were a code, I would think it would be 5 or 6 figures. Does anybody here have a "C" in that Sloan slot?

[TimR]

FYI..started up the car two weeks ago..after 6 months of hibernation..had it out for a ride..

yeah, they just swept out streets of all the rocks, the weather was getting nice, then we got nailed today!!! i just helped a neighbor get his chvey four by four UNSTUCK form his driveway!!!!LOL

I have't seen such heavy thick snow in years, airport is closed, I'm snowed in, fire me an e-maila nd i can send pics that would really make you appreciate where you are!!

I gotta move south.

Would love to see scanned pics of an early order form, be more documentation with the 72 ragtop for shows, etc, which by the way, will be almost exaclt like yours once done. I thik it will be awesome if the snow ever leaves!

E-mail me at ritc1@shaw.ca. I can't believe how hard those little nipples are to find, must be another use for them out there somewhere that we could tap into (chevies??)

later
Tim

[tstclr]

Wow times have changed. NVI hours are now usually .9- 1.2 !
Does that mean less things need to be checked on new cars??:Do No:

Todd

[dcm422]

Stanley,
Is this the fitting you are looking for?
Attached is a pic. I got this off a 72 air cleaner over 20 years ago and it turned up recently.

Mark

[buick72]

Mark..

Thanks for the post..

I can't tell very well..but I don't think so.

This looks like it might be an oil breather fitting (?) of some kind..

Here is the fitting I need as I remember it (I can't locate any diagrams of it..??)

It was a single piece, plastic, right angle, with a smooth end for a hose connection on one end and a 45 deg cut on the other other end. It had a collar under the 45 deg cut end that had twist lock ears. The ears went into a hole in the underside of the air horn and then swiveled to hold the fitting. The hose end connected to the vapor canister exhaust line.

It was only used in '72. The other years the canister was vented back into the carb.

If you look at the underside of a 2 bbl (not sure about 4 bbl..?) 350 air cleaner horn from '72..you will see the cutout for the fitting.

The concept was that the vapors would be sucked out of the canister by the vacuum created by air rushing in the air horn.

Thanks for the trouble to send a pic.

Stanley

[TimR]

I thought that was the piece.........

Tim

[Mike Trom]

I have a copy of John Diaz's build sheet that was decoded by Duane and since John's Sloan info shows the "LC" code I thought something could be determined by looking at the build sheet to see what "different" options may appear. I did not see anything that would help with this mystery :Do No:

Oh well, I'll keep looking.....

[buick72]

Mike..

Can you actually match item-for-item the build sheet with the Sloan sales codes..?

There was a hint (from Marco, I think) that the diffs may be related to the size of the Delcotron..??

Just a passing thought..

Stanley

[John Diaz]

Mike,
My Sloan "L" code is "A." Stanley sez he has the LC. As I said, I have tinted all around (but then so does Stanley).
I would have guessed something about windshield antennas, but they didn't start these new codes until 72 and the antennas have been in the glass since 70 or so.

Stanley,
Do you have LOF glass in your 72?

[buick72]

John..

I think so..but I'll have to check.

I think the windshield is not OEM..(been replaced)...but the side glass will have the markings.

I won't be with the car (it lives in Maine..) until this coming weekend.

If we still need to know, I'll post it after I'm back.

Stanley

[Mike Trom]

oops.... my bad,,:( Your right John, your code is LA not LC....:Dou:

[Dan K]

Mark,
The piece you have is the elbow that indeed connects the charcoal cannister to the underside of the air cleaner. They were used on '70 Caifornia cars, to vent the tank vapor. I don't know if the later cars used the same piece, but if you got it off a '72 air cleaner, it stands to reason. In case anyone cares, the part number for the elbow is #1234556. The retaining clip is #3977168. I suggest you hang onto those pieces, as they are a real bugger to find. I finally found a few of them NOS at the Nats for 3.00 apiece, after searhing for over ten years.....Dan

[buick72]

Dan and Mark..

There's another version of this part..for '72s that had 2 or 4 bbl standard air cleaners.

Mark's part goes to the underside of the air cleaner bowl..so it can have a square end sticking up..the vapors just get sucked out as the air is pulled in, inside the air filter space.

In the standard 72's, the fitting was placed out at the end of the long air horn, way before the air filter. The part that enters the horn is cut off at a 45 deg angle. It is held in with the same clip, but is positioned so the the angle opening faces in to the carb.

The idea was that the air rushing past would pull the vapors out toward the carb, and not out into the engine compartment.

Thanks to BuickBarr, I finally got one of these parts.

I can post a picture if anyone wants to see it.

Stanley

[Marco]

John Diaz said:Mike,
My Sloan "L" code is "A." Stanley sez he has the LC. As I said, I have tinted all around (but then so does Stanley).
I would have guessed something about windshield antennas, but they didn't start these new codes until 72 and the antennas have been in the glass since 70 or so.

Stanley,
Do you have LOF glass in your 72?

I'll post the entire page when I get home - I cannot resize pictures at work :af:

L3 or L4 is plain glass
LA or LC is tinted glass
LB or LD is tinted windshield

The page I will post later will explain 'A change in procedure has caused a change to be made in the sales codes'. In short, it looks like a data processing error caused these codes to be created.

Darn programmers :moonu: :laugh:

[buick72]

I can't wait...mostly to find out how the mystery was solved.

Who/Where did the memo come from..??

Marco..tell all!!

Thx, Stanley

[Marco]

Directly from the Sloan Museum archive...

[buick72]

This is very impressive archive material.

A great find..

Congratulations on solving the mystery!

And now we know also know that the window stickers should not change, as well.

Regards, Stanley

[Marco]

buick72 said:This is very impressive archive material.

A great find..

Congratulations on solving the mystery!

And now we know also know that the window stickers should not change, as well.

Regards, Stanley

Thanks Stanley!

Andy found it on the last page of his 1972 material. He e-mailed me because he said I was the only one who would understand his excitement at solving this mystery.

He's a great guy who is willing to work with us. I only hope to return some favors for all his help in the documentation front.

[buick72]

One more thought...

Does this mean that there is no "rev 2" order sheet..?

That the dealer/customer world of paperwork had the old codes (like L1) , but the internal factory paperwork called it something else (like LC)..?

It sounds like this is the case..since the sticker and invoice (and therefore, I assume, the order sheet) would still have the old codes.

What do you think..?

Stanley

[Marco]

buick72 said:One more thought...

Does this mean that there is no "rev 2" order sheet..?

That the dealer/customer world of paperwork had the old codes (like L1) , but the internal factory paperwork called it something else (like LC)..?

It sounds like this is the case..since the sticker and invoice (and therefore, I assume, the order sheet) would still have the old codes.

What do you think..?

Stanley
Yep! At this point I would say there is no REV #2. It's existence was thought possible because of the LA/LC Sloan codes.

[John Diaz]

Great work, Marco.... Yoo da' man! :beer

[Mike Trom]

buick72 said:And now we know also know that the window stickers should not change, as well.



Whew....... Thought that I would have to make a few corrections....:pp

Andy at Sloan has been very helpful to me also....

[Duane]

Marco is definately the man.
Duane

[Valiantsignet]

Yeah Stanley I'd like to see it because I'm missing one on my 72 Centurion and the parts house just scratch thier heads and argue its supose to go into the carburator.

[buick72]

Glenn..

I know how you feel..there is not a lot of mention of these small parts in the literature.

I can post a picture later. The pix I have is a little out of focus because I took it closer than the dig camera lens could handle.

And the part is now with the cra..nit at home.

I believe this was a '72-only part, as well. In prior years the vapor canister was vented into the carb.

Watch this space later..

Stanley

[buick72]

Glen..here is the part..a little out of focus...Stanley

[Valiantsignet]

Thanks for going to the trouble of posting that pic Stanley. Now I will have to look for a piece that resembles it. I wonder?,did any of the other auto companies use this part/ideal.

[buick72]

Glenn..

I think this was a '72-only, GM-only part...

The little emissions fittings are fussy stuff.

At the parts store, all you can find are generic vacuum fittings.

You may be able to fashion something from one of the generics..getting it to stay in the hole will be tough, though.

BTW..I assume you have the hole for this in the horn of the air cleaner near the opening. That's where it goes.

If you make a fitting, be sure to have the angled opening face in toward the carb. This way the air rushing around the fitting will draw the vapors out of the canister into the engine.

Glad to help with the pic..

Stanley