A question about "Spyders?"

[britt'sStage 1]

Does anybody know if the Motor Wheel company is still in existance,or does any other wheel company reproduce the Motor Wheel Spyder? I saw them on a picture of the Reynolds STG 2,and they look hot,how much history is there on the Spyder? Thanks,Jay B.Britt,Jr.

[buick64203]

Super rare wheel. No one repros them. It was Motor wheels only aftermarket wheel. Guy Parquette and Wild Bill are the go to guys on those wheels.

Thanks to Bill, there's a set in my basement awaiting resto!

[britt'sStage 1]

Thanks,Jason...that where I'll go. Jay

[Stage2Scott]

in the early 70s, all the stock and super stock guys had em-there were literally hundreds of those things given away to racers as "sponsorship" and today they are very rare to see. I don't know what happened to them all, cause they made a lot....in the mid 70s they became flys (rears up to 12" or so wide) and fleas (front 3.5) and these were an aluminum outer skin somehow bonded (1973, remember) to a colored plastic type center part and an aluminum rear skin to form up 3 pieces into a very lightweight one piece wheel. I remember the first time I picked up a flea for the front of John Kunsaks SS/D Camaro, it was unbelieveable to me how light it was. Occasionally I se fleas and flys for sale, they do big moeny same as the steel ones do.

[70GSXFAN]

What do these wheels look like??

[buick64203]

Here are some pis of the one I have. Im sure Guy or Bill can post some better ones.

[Guy Parquette]

What do these wheels look like??

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/spyderwheels2005.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/spyderwheels2007.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/spyderwheels2001.jpg

[MBTex]

Guy,

You need to make a Poster print of your Car. Do you have any good pics of it in this setup all the other pics I have seen it has the Centerline style wheels.

[Guy Parquette]

As far as the history and the relation to Buick...

Joe Guzak, the designer of the Spyder (then later upped his ranks to vp or something) was and is good friends with Dennis Manner of Buick fame.

Joe bought a new "70 Stage1 and was either then introduced or earlier to Jim Bell (of Kenne-Bell).
And what Joe had told me, he gave the wheels to Jim for use on the KB/Reynolds car. And in return Jim "helped" Joe on his Stage1 with parts and info.
There's even a picture of Joe's car (with Motor Wheel Spyders) in the back one of the KB's catalog.
A lot of the "backed" racers with Buicks used these wheels, probably because of Joe.
Here's Joe "inspecting" one of my restored Spyders. Joe's on the right, Dennis is middle.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/IMG_0658.jpg

I had him autograph one also.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/IMG_0688.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/IMG_0689.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Guy,

You need to make a Poster print of your Car. Do you have any good pics of it in this setup all the other pics I have seen it has the Centerline style wheels.

Thanks for the props!
No other pics with these wheels...I just got them finished and haven't had a chance to take some outside pics. Now there's snow on the ground.

[buick64203]

Interestingly, Mustang Monthly did a story last month on the Lawman Racing team that visited the troops in Vietnam. All the pictures from back in the day showed the cars wearing Motor Wheel Spyders. The remaining Lawman Mustang wears Cragars today. Shows you how rare they are. They probably couldnt source a set for the restoration. The article does reference the wheels

[Guy Parquette]

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/spycar.jpg

[buick64203]

Guy, who re-hooped your Spyders?


We spoke a while back about about restoring the aluminum centers. Would you be able to post the ins and outs of how you did yours?

[Mister T]

Interestingly, Mustang Monthly did a story last month on the Lawman Racing team that visited the troops in Vietnam. All the pictures from back in the day showed the cars wearing Motor Wheel Spyders. The remaining Lawman Mustang wears Cragars today.

I would've thought that the Lawman Boss 9's were all but forgotten. I remember reading about them in some other magazine, probably back in the 80's. Wasn't part of the reason for them going to Vietnam, an effort to get servicemen to order new Mustangs when they returned home?

Should've paid more attention to the magazine rack lately.:Dou:

[Guy Parquette]

Guy, who re-hooped your Spyders?


We spoke a while back about about restoring the aluminum centers. Would you be able to post the ins and outs of how you did yours?

That's a good idea. I get those questions all the time....well, some of the time:pp
But instead of pm'ing and emailing the same thing over and over, I'll just tell what I know here...if that's fine with Jay? Don't mean to hijack, but I guess it's not really that
:Do No:

Jay?

[buick64203]

Found the article online for you Tom-


http://www.mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0811_1970_mustang_boss_429_lawman/index.html

[buick64203]

That's a good idea. I get those questions all the time....well, some of the time:pp
But instead of pm'ing and emailing the same thing over and over, I'll just tell what I know here...if that's fine with Jay? Don't mean to hijack, but I guess it's not really that
:Do No:

Jay?

Go ahead! Im very interested. I'd like to make my set look like yours! :beers2:

[buick64203]

In fact, I think it might make a good sticky!

[Mister T]

Thanks for the link Jason!:beer :TU:

It appears that I was slightly erroneous about their purpose in going to Vietnam. :Dou:

Great article.

[Guy Parquette]

As you may know the Spyder is a two piece design with the center being aluminum and the outer "hoop" being chromed steel.
The aluminum center is pressed and welded to the hoop.
How do they do that?
Well, KeyStone developed the process. In fact Joe told me Motor Wheel Corp had to pay KeyStone a royalty for every Spyder two piece style wheel sold. which if memory serves me correctly is why they discontinued the wheel shortly after coming out with them.

The aluminum center is cast with four 2" long pieces of metal which is used as a "tab" for welding on to the hoop. The center is also press fit into the hoop. Joe told me they did test with wheels that were just press fit and they passed.
Also he said in the beginning they had problems getting a good weld...had something to do with the aluminum cooling the weld off too fast. KeyStone aslo had this problem. But Joe's welder developed a process that eliminated the bad welds. What it was I don't know.
Well, enough of the history...but can you tell I like it? (history). I probably forgot a lot more. I was fortunate enough to spend most part of the day with Dennis Manner and Joe at the 2007 BPG event and learned a lot of history.

The steps it took to restore;

I first sent the wheels out to get cut apart. The shop that rehooped them recomend they cut them apart. They sent the centers back for me to restore.

Restoring them for the first time took me about one week for each center working a couple hours a day, it is very tedious and can get boring. But it did get faster after a couple under my belt.
I think most of the Spyders out there will be pitted...just some worse than others.
The ones I got from Wild Bill were in nice shape but still had pitting.
You need to first glass bead them front and back to get them nice and clean.
Then on the machined surface you need to get it to a high degree of shine like polished aluminum.
To do that I learned it's a must to start with 180 grit on a DA. sounds pretty rough but it's the only way to get the pits and scratches out. Beleave me I tried every shortcut but this is the only way.
Next I went with 320 grit, then 500, then onto 800 finishing film, then 1200, and finally 1500 finishing film.
Now I tried various ways to polish the surface...buffing ect. but the best for me was to do it by hand with 07445 white 3m scotch-brite going in one direction with a fast motion.
After all that you need to get a very light machined surface look.
What worked best for me were to use a red 07447 3m scotch-brite pad very carefully going ONLY in one direction and ONLY one way (not back and forth) all the way around the polished surface.

Next you send them off to the wheel shop where they press fit them in and weld them. Don't paint the center untill you get them back...my centers had to be turned down a bit to fit into the hoop and all that will just mess up the paint.
On a 70 GS body Joe told me a 4 and 5/8" back space works best with an 8" wide wheel. I measured up my wheel well going off the drum and that ended up being perfect.

My fronts are 4" for the skinny drag front runners so this won't pertain to most but I'll mention it.
The way Motor Wheel made the 4" rims is they took two hoops and cut them apart two inches from the front (cut the fronts off) and welded them back together then welded up the rear valve stem hole. Aparently no one made (or still makes) the correct diameter 4" wide hoops. So Joe told me this is how they did it for my Reynolds car and others. He said they didn't make too many.

OK. you have your wheels back and now have to paint the center part. Joe told me to use the flattest black paint I could find and to put it on as "dry" as possible.

Is all this worth it?
In my case it was. For anyone else? I think so, our Buicks are different and so are these wheels. And there was a relationship between the two. Plus I think it "dates" our cars.

Also there're high bucks restored. The Mopar guys use them alot for some reason...and you know the kind of crazy money they pay for stuff!

Awhile back there were a restored (incorrectly) 4" front set for sale in Wa.State for $2800.00..

The shop that rehooped mine;

Sheradon Performance
15775 HWY 61
Hugo, Mn 55038
Ph is 651-426-0061
Ask for Don Sr.

Very nice people...
They are into Mopars big time. They restored alot of famous race cars including some Sox & Martin cars.

[buick64203]

Excellent post Guy! Thanks!:beers2:

What Im curious about is if the 14" centers are the same as the 15" centers? I'd like to convert mine to 15x7s. When you get a chance, could you measure yours? I'll do the same with mine.

[Guy Parquette]

Excellent post Guy! Thanks!:beers2:

What Im curious about is if the 14" centers are the same as the 15" centers? I'd like to convert mine to 15x7s. When you get a chance, could you measure yours? I'll do the same with mine.

Yes-
Some were the same size and some were not, I think it was a build date thing...I'll get you that measurement tomorrow.

[britt'sStage 1]

That's a good idea. I get those questions all the time....well, some of the time:pp
But instead of pm'ing and emailing the same thing over and over, I'll just tell what I know here...if that's fine with Jay? Don't mean to hijack, but I guess it's not really that
:Do No:

Jay? Guy,it's ALL GOOD!!! I'm trying to get as much info as possible so the search for a set of "Spyders" will be fruitful for ME...Information is POWER:TU: Jay B.Britt,Jr.

[Gasoline]

Some more information. Motor Wheel also cast a rare 1 piece. I had 2 that came on on a '69 442. The scrap man got them years ago 'cause I could not give them away. Picture from the net:

http://www.akhwheels.com/pages/images/akh128.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Excellent post Guy! Thanks!:beers2:

What Im curious about is if the 14" centers are the same as the 15" centers? I'd like to convert mine to 15x7s. When you get a chance, could you measure yours? I'll do the same with mine.

Mine measure 13-1/8".
If yours are different I would call Don at Sheradon Perf to see if they make a 15" hoop for your inner die. size.
If it's the same your good to go:beers2:

Let us know...

[buick64203]

Looks like mine are 12 1/4" . I'll give Don a call and see what he says.

[Stage2Scott]

found this photo of my stocker circa 1974 at national trails raceway, cols, ohio

[Guy Parquette]

found this photo of my stocker circa 1974 at national trails raceway, cols, ohio

Cool photo!...any more??

[buick64203]

Mine measure 13-1/8".
If yours are different I would call Don at Sheradon Perf to see if they make a 15" hoop for your inner die. size.
If it's the same your good to go:beers2:

Let us know...

Just spoke to Don Sr. He says no problem on re-hooping my 12 1/4" centers into 15x7s. So, I'll be packing them up after the holidays and sending them out.

[Guy Parquette]

Just spoke to Don Sr. He says no problem on re-hooping my 12 1/4" centers into 15x7s. So, I'll be packing them up after the holidays and sending them out.

Awesome! keep us updated on the project:kodak:

[Guy Parquette]

Here's what they will look like when you get them back...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/stg2carspyders005.jpg

Here is a good shot of how far down the paint line is

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/stg2carspyders003.jpg

Half way though one of them

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/stg2carspyders009.jpg

[Tom Rix]

Very cool wheels.
I have a set of 15x6 without lug nuts and only 1 cap. Chrome is dull but not blistered or peeling. Centers would need to be restored. $140 plus shipping if anyone needs them

Thanks,
Tom

[Guy Parquette]

An Olds with them on from back in the day...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/olds.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Just another drag car using them.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/57spy.jpg

[blowncash]

I do think the wheels are kinda cool looking,but what was the draw,in the race industry.I see they were narrow,(15 x 6 ?)but are they very light weight.

[Stage2Scott]

I do think the wheels are kinda cool looking,but what was the draw,in the race industry.I see they were narrow,(15 x 6 ?)but are they very light weight.

When they first came out, they were as light as anything else, but lighter wheels arrived a few years after these first showed up. HOWEVER for class racers in stock and super stock THEY WERE FREE!

[Guy Parquette]

Just spoke to Don Sr. He says no problem on re-hooping my 12 1/4" centers into 15x7s. So, I'll be packing them up after the holidays and sending them out.

Hey Jason, I located that reamer tool finally...so I'll be sending it out along with staples if you still need them:TU:
How are your wheels coming along?

Here's what the front skinnys look with the old ribbed tire (which KB used)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/rollbar002.jpg

[buick64203]

Ive been meaning to get that wheel project back on track. It went to the back burner. It was a rough winter. But I want to get back on it. Yeah, if you could send that tool over that would be awesome. I'll ream out the wheels and send it right back.

The tires look so cool. Where did you find them?

[gd2227]

1969 Gs

[2manybuicks]

I have an NOS set for a big car, by the way.

-- Steve

[gd2227]

Guys, what's the 'going rate' for a COMPLETE, (with centercaps, lug nuts), EXCELLENT set of 14" SPYDERS with A body lug spacing (Skylark, GS, etc)???
May make or break a 'deal' I have going...:Brow:

[Guy Parquette]

The tires look so cool. Where did you find them?


Coker Tire:TU:

[Guy Parquette]

Guy,

You need to make a Poster print of your Car. Do you have any good pics of it in this setup all the other pics I have seen it has the Centerline style wheels.

Here's a better picture of the wheels on the car now...

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/photoshoot009.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/photoshoot005.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/photoshoot011.jpg

[MBTex]

Looks Good!!!

[2manybuicks]

Oh yeah, the NOS set I have actually turned out to be for a-body cars once I received them, not for big cars as I thought when I bought them.

I regret the error.:Brow:

-- Steve

[2manybuicks]

Here's what I have.

-- Steve

[ajesh35]

steve, pm sent

[2manybuicks]

ARe these the correct lug nuts for these things?

-- Steve

[buick64203]

Steve- what sizes are those wheels that you have?

[Topcat]

Steve......those are the correct lugnuts......:TU:

Peace WildBill

[Stage2Scott]

Cool photo!...any more??

yes, apparently there is at least one more-just found this-quality from an old 126 film shot is poor, but-my good friend and sometimes sponsor from those days, had the spyders on his bock drag star trailer, and the new Fleas on the front, although we did not get the correct back spacing on the rear flys in time for this event (englishtown summernats-73??) so the car wears corvette rallys in this shot.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/stage1scott/img056.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

here's a good original pic of how they looked back in the day....

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/oldsspyder2.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/oldsspyder.jpg

[Stage2Scott]

I don't know if this has been posted, gonna put it over in the Len Immke thread as well. Just surfaced, Tom Kasch photo:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/stage1scott/old%20drag%20%20car%20and%20trucks/DickBakerHsa1974Sportsnts.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Here's another Olds.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/olds1.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

some poncho's with motor wheel spyders.

the white car looks good with them

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/1146-14.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/1146-15.jpg

[Jim Rodgers]

Guy, Bill Burton or any of the guru's:

I have (4) Spyders and (2) are the large diameter centers and (2) are the smaller diameter. Will the smaller diameter Spyder centers in a 15" X 6" rim work with brake drums clearance wise?

I want to use the larger diameter centers on the rear and the smaller diameter centers on the front. Any issues going that way that anyone can see? Should I use the larger diameter centers on the front which is how they were when I got them?? I have drum brakes instead of Disc.

Thanks for and advice.

Oh and Guy, you have a PM.

Jim

[Guy Parquette]

Yes, they will clear the drums.
And I pm'd/emailed you back.

Guy

[Jim Rodgers]

Guy - I didnt get your PM for some reason.

[dl7265]

Here's what I have.

-- Steve
Nice :Brow:, Otasco "Oklahoma Tire and Supply Company" used to sell these New. Wish I had put a few sets back !