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View Full Version : Ported 455 Heads - How Much Flow?



SMITHBERGRACING
12-09-2008, 02:37 AM
I'm looking for some info here from people who have ported and flowed heads for a 455 Buick. For an all out max ported stock casting head (70-73 casting) that has been massaged by a professional, what are some of the flow numbers that have been reached and at what lift? I'm also curious as to what work was done to them as far as valve sizes etc and also costs to achieve the flow numbers. I know Gessler specializes in Buick stuff maybe he could chime in and give his experiences?:TU:

LARRY70GS
12-09-2008, 11:54 AM
I'm looking for some info here from people who have ported and flowed heads for a 455 Buick. For an all out max ported stock casting head (70-73 casting) that has been massaged by a professional, what are some of the flow numbers that have been reached and at what lift? I'm also curious as to what work was done to them as far as valve sizes etc and also costs to achieve the flow numbers. I know Gessler specializes in Buick stuff maybe he could chime in and give his experiences?:TU:

For the amount of money you will spend on stock castings to get them to maximum flow, you might as well just buy the TA aluminum heads. They will flow better right out of the box than most of the best iron heads. My Gessler Level2 TA Stage1SE aluminum heads flow 313/225 @ .550 lift. I spent about 300.00 above the cost of the fully assembled heads to get those numbers.

www.gesslerheadporting.com

flynbuick
12-09-2008, 12:30 PM
Larry is correct. There is no point in struggling with iron where you might spend a ton just to get 270 at .5 by the best. Plus the alummnum TA heads will be so much better on the exhaust side based on a redesign.

WE1
12-09-2008, 12:37 PM
With an iron head if you could get numbers in the 270's and even 280's at max. lifts you're doing real good. I've heard of iron heads going more with numbers in the 290's and even heard of somebody at 300. Pretty hard to believe but I guess anything is possible if enough money is thrown at 'em. Most likely raised intake port, some epoxy, tinkering with valve sizes and :Do No:
But its not just the max lift flow numbers. The lower numbers are even more critical for building power.
If Greg sees this he'll chime in. He's a pro at getting good numbers from these heads and a great guy to deal with too.

He did a set of heads for Rick Hendersons car that only flowed 253 on the intake at max. lift (around .560") but the lower numbers were killer. And is a major reason his car ran so hard. 11.60's at 114 at just over 4,100 lbs. w/ driver, 3.42 gears, stock suspension. And was a docile combo on the street too.

SMITHBERGRACING
12-09-2008, 01:47 PM
With an iron head if you could get numbers in the 270's and even 280's at max. lifts you're doing real good. I've heard of iron heads going more with numbers in the 290's and even heard of somebody at 300. Pretty hard to believe but I guess anything is possible if enough money is thrown at 'em. Most likely raised intake port, some epoxy, tinkering with valve sizes and :Do No:
But its not just the max lift flow numbers. The lower numbers are even more critical for building power.
If Greg sees this he'll chime in. He's a pro at getting good numbers from these heads and a great guy to deal with too.

He did a set of heads for Rick Hendersons car that only flowed 253 on the intake at max. lift (around .560") but the lower numbers were killer. And is a major reason his car ran so hard. 11.60's at 114 at just over 4,100 lbs. w/ driver, 3.42 gears, stock suspension. And was a docile combo on the street too.

This is some of the info I'm looking for, thanks for the reply. I understand there are other heads out there that are able to do more but, what about the guys who are limited to using stock castings. I port alot of cylinder heads here in Nebraska and recently had a customer interested in getting a set of Buick heads ported. I basically gave them an updated valve job and a bowl blend and got them to do 265cfm @ .550 lift with Stage 1 valves. I was afraid to open them up too far and hit water so he gave me a junk pair of heads to play with to see what they were capable of. I basically replicated the valve job and really opened up the bowls. I also reshaped the guide, widened the port in the head bolt area, and blended the short side radius. I still used Stage 1 valves but, put a backcut on them and got them to do 285cfm @ .550 lift. I still think I'm leaving some on the table and am curious what it really takes to get these to do 300 cfm?

flynbuick
12-09-2008, 02:27 PM
There will be some number differences based on the variations among the flow benches

SMITHBERGRACING
12-09-2008, 09:02 PM
My flowbench gets calibrated often by using sharp edge orifice plates that I purchased from Bruce at Tractorsport and YES using plates like these make them within 1-2 cfm tested from many people across the country. I have a Saenz S-600 bench with a slider plate setup from Brzezinski. The valve job was done on my Peterson TCM-25 with a 3-D cutter. Here are the flow numbers @ 28":
.100 72.48
.150 108.88
.200 142.78
.250 174.58
.300 204.44
.350 233.64
.400 261.70
.450 278.05
.500 280.10
.550 285.21
.600 284.14

john massoud
12-11-2008, 02:27 AM
Hi, i dont want to get into a pissing match over Flow #s but ive raced alot of guys with iron heads that they say they flowed over 300 cfm and they never even cam close to running the #s that my car has, my heads at .650 lift were 277, THATS WITH STOCK SIZE STAGE 1 VALVES 3/8. and ive run a best of 9.57 @ 139.80 @ 3275 pounds. the only car that has out run mine with iron heads is Rob C. from stage 1 auto in NJ. Hes run a best of 9.43 @ 140. what size bore plate are you using ? Just asking because i got a set of heads this year Aluminum Stage 1 SE that were suppose to flow 343@ at .650 and when we checked them they were 303 cfm on a brand new super flow 600. we found out later they were flowed on a 4.500 bore plate ???? What are these heads going on ? A racecar i hope cuz a head that good would be a waste to run on a street car. Hope to hear more about these heads. Thanks for posting.

SMITHBERGRACING
12-11-2008, 10:27 AM
Hi, i dont want to get into a pissing match over Flow #s but ive raced alot of guys with iron heads that they say they flowed over 300 cfm and they never even cam close to running the #s that my car has, my heads at .650 lift were 277, THATS WITH STOCK SIZE STAGE 1 VALVES 3/8. and ive run a best of 9.57 @ 139.80 @ 3275 pounds. the only car that has out run mine with iron heads is Rob C. from stage 1 auto in NJ. Hes run a best of 9.43 @ 140. what size bore plate are you using ? Just asking because i got a set of heads this year Aluminum Stage 1 SE that were suppose to flow 343@ at .650 and when we checked them they were 303 cfm on a brand new super flow 600. we found out later they were flowed on a 4.500 bore plate ???? What are these heads going on ? A racecar i hope cuz a head that good would be a waste to run on a street car. Hope to hear more about these heads. Thanks for posting.

I understand that flow numbers aren't everything and that the combination as a whole is more important. All I'm trying to do is to get the most out of these stock castings for a drag car. This is my second time at a set of Buick heads and there isn't much info out there as for what they need to make some good HP. I mostly work on SBC and BBC heads so I'm just taking what I've learned and applying it to these heads. I'm curious to hear if people are putting bigger valves than the Stage 1 stuff or if they are being welded up and epoxied to get them to do more? The other thing is how much money has someone spent to get a stock casting done this way?

DaWildcat
12-11-2008, 10:31 AM
I'm curious to hear if people are putting bigger valves than the Stage 1 stuff or if they are being welded up and epoxied to get them to do more?

Interesting that you mentioned epoxy. Here's what AM&P did to get the velocity up on a set of TA'a aluminum heads/intake for the Engine Masters Challenge:

http://automachperf.com/434emcspecs

Devon

SMITHBERGRACING
12-11-2008, 10:38 AM
Here are couple pics of the port work roughed in.

SMITHBERGRACING
12-11-2008, 10:46 AM
Interesting that you mentioned epoxy. Here's what AM&P did to get the velocity up on a set of TA'a aluminum heads/intake for the Engine Masters Challenge:

Devon
I run across this article while trying to do some research. It appears they raised the port and filled the floor. They also made it more of an oval port to make the velocities more even across the cross sectional area. I'm trying to stay away from welding but not afraid of epoxy.

leo455
12-11-2008, 04:05 PM
I am guessing you did unshroud the valves? With these numbers that I have seen posted here, my irons flow right in the neighborhood. I need to have them re flowed by a Buick guru. They flowed 265 @ .500 and 210 @ .500.

SMITHBERGRACING
12-11-2008, 05:27 PM
Did the posted flow #s come from these heads as seen in the pic's? Chris
Yes, they did.

56familykar
12-12-2008, 08:25 AM
Good eye Leo:grin: Thats why I asked about the pic's. WE sweep it with a cutter. Made huge gains at .200 .300 .400 .500 lifts Chris

Are you using a radius blade in your serdi for the relief/Unshrouding? Or are you doing it more by hand?

Mike

SMITHBERGRACING
12-12-2008, 10:12 AM
I was unsure of unshrouding the valves due to the loss of compression ratio, but after a discussion with buickstage1 I think this will be my next move to improve them in the mid lift ranges. I have quite a few radius blades for my cutter that I will try out and see what works best. Using a serdi style cutter turns out so much better than if it was done by hand.

DaWildcat
12-12-2008, 04:47 PM
I've never seen before & after numbers for unshrouding...very good results. Buick engineering must have made the same conclusion.

Devon

SMITHBERGRACING
12-22-2008, 10:42 AM
Return email sent. Thanks for the others I received.:TU: