which 4spd for a stroker 455 ??

[austrian455]

Hey guys,

Which 4 spd would you use for a 650hp application in a GS.
The car had a TH400 on the stock motor.

So thats the next question:

What has to be done to put a 4 speed in a automatic car?
What about the drive shaft lenght, spline and the crossmember?

I have a Borg Warner Super T10 that I used in a Vette on a 454.
Can I put this in the GS ? (of course with changing the bell housing)

What would you do?

[70 gsconvt]

If it were me, I'd look for a TREMAC 5 speed to have the overdrive. The 4-speed you have is a good trans, but it will get old quick if you're on the freewa much.

[austrian455]

What do you mean? The super T10 doesn´t like to run higher speeds?
Does it get hot?
In the Vette it worked fine with 3.23 gears I had in.
I drove the car about 300 miles with a averange speed of 100 mph (@ approx. 3800 - 4000 RPM).
Or do you mean that I will get tired with it on the freeway ?

[austrian455]

But what about to fit it in the car? Does the TH400 drive shaft fit the Borg Warner or the Tremec ? Do you know what has to be changed at the crossmember?

[70 gsconvt]

I'm just thinking of the engine noise. Buzzing down the highway at 3000+ rpm's gets old after a while. That's why I put a 200-4R trans in my car. Now 70 mph is about 2200 rpms.

[moleary]

That much HP will be much better serviced with a built Hydro; the 700R4 is a very good choice.

If you do go for the stick swap as I am doing right now, you should budget $3,000-$4,000 US depending on where you get ALL the parts and tidbits. That assumes you do all the labor:beers2: Then, you better have a fat contingency for the borken parts that will ensue :3gears:

[austrian455]

Phillip, that correct.
I know how I arrived home after driving the Vette 300 miles on the freeway at night. I fell in my bed like I had no sleep till days.

That´s a good point. Because I won´t be able to something like 3.08 or 2.93 gears with a good cam.

Moleary,
Sure, I will do all the labor my self. I also can do some welding and other machine work to fabricate parts. but I know it´s not cheap to put a manual transmission in.
But it would get much cheaper if I use the Super T10 that came out of the Vette.
What tranny are you putting in? What do you or did you have to modify?

[moleary]

I am using Muncie M-20 for now. It was freshly rebuilt and the price was very good. I had planned on T10 but the one I had was 3.42 first gear, no good for me. I went with the close ratio M-20 (Ratio: 2.52 / 1.88 / 1.46 / 1.00 / 3.11)

I built about 500=/- HP and decided SFI Bellhousing in lieu of factory style. You should consider the same if you have any respect for your feet and other people let alone your car, as when a clutch or flywheel come apart, it is not a pretty thing:eek2:

You should also consider a driveshaft safety loop no matter which trans you go with:TU:

What year is your block? Later years do not have the hole for the z bar ball stud. Also, verify crank shaft bore for piolt bushing.

Here is a thread I keep updated with my project. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=166260
I should be done this weekend:beers2: I did not do too much the past couple weeeknds as other things kept coming up keeping me out of the shop.

As for "Modify" as you asked, cut correct hole in the floor is only "modification". I was fortunate to borrow a piece from a factory floor as a pattern so it is right. The rest is parts swaping:TU: Weld floor hump part over hole, swap steering column, speedometer, pedals, clutch / flywheel / pilot bushing /z bar parts, linkage & rods, shifter / handle/ ball, Bellhousing & trans, dirveline, speedo cable, clutch pedal return spring.

[online170]

My freind's olds 455 will be in the range of 650 ftlbs, just a tad shy actually.

He is using the M22. He bought a new transmission, and its rated for 1100hp. I can get you alist of what he has in the thing if youre interested.

(With the clutch) It was about $5000.

[flynbuick]

It it was an auto car you might as well put in a 5 spped to handle the hp/toq. The BG T10 is not designed for as much output as you intend or even close to it. You will need the flywhee, clutch and l and pilot bearing set up for the trans you select. It will be an expensive conversion.

[austrian455]

What year is your block? Later years do not have the hole for the z bar ball stud. Also, verify crank shaft bore for piolt bushing.

As for "Modify" as you asked, cut correct hole in the floor is only "modification". I was fortunate to borrow a piece from a factory floor as a pattern so it is right. The rest is parts swaping:TU: Weld floor hump part over hole, swap steering column, speedometer, pedals, clutch / flywheel / pilot bushing /z bar parts, linkage & rods, shifter / handle/ ball, Bellhousing & trans, dirveline, speedo cable, clutch pedal return spring.


The Block I´ll use is a 70. I think it´ll be a good base because it is still std. bore size. And as I saw the lifter bores look nice centered. But I have to sonic check it before I start preparing it.

That´s more money and work than I thouht. Especially since I know that my Super T10 isn´t good for my application.
In my case I don´t have to change the steering column and speedometer because it´s a bucket seat car with console.

I really love to drive stick shift cars but I think it´s better to keep it orig.
I will post everything here on the board when the project starts. The car is stored away now because I have to finish the rest before I start something new.
I will keep the #´s matching motor and build up the 70 block for the car.
I also have a TH400 for it (Thats the one that I´ll build for the 70 block). But I think I will have a hard time to find a BB TH400 to get the orig. drivetrain complete and correct.

But as I said, the 454 and the Super T10 came out of the Vette because I put the orig. drivetrain back in (427/435 + Muncie).
Now I know for sure that I can sell the Super T10.

What do you think can I ask for the Borg Warner ?
I has no broken gears or something but it should have a rebuild before it goes back into a car. The shift forks are woren.

[mygs462]

If it were me, I'd look for a TREMAC 5 speed to have the overdrive. The 4-speed you have is a good trans, but it will get old quick if you're on the freewa much.

I second Phils opinion, cant go wrong with an overdrive.

[Floydsbuick]

This sounds like a question for Paul. He's runnin 11s with three pedals:3gears:

[Paul Massicotte]

Thanks Dan.



Hey guys,

Which 4 spd would you use for a 650hp application in a GS.
The car had a TH400 on the stock motor.

I would use either a Autogear Super M22 case and internals or a G Force GF4A http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf4a.asp



So thats the next question:

What has to be done to put a 4 speed in a automatic car?
What about the drive shaft lenght, spline and the crossmember?

Driveshaft length will need to be determined once the engine, trans and rear are in the car with the suspension loaded. Crossmember will move to the forward most holes already in the frame. TH400's and M22's are both 32 spline. So is the GF4A.


I have a Borg Warner Super T10 that I used in a Vette on a 454.
Can I put this in the GS ? (of course with changing the bell housing)

The Super T10 will work in the GS. There's a strong aftermarket for ST10 parts that are stronger to handle more torque.


What would you do?

What would I do? Never put a 5 speed in it. [/QUOTE]

What are your plans for the car? Long drives on the highway? Race it in a straight line?

[austrian455]

My plans are to drive the car on the street for 90%.
The car should be able to run about 100 mph on freeway without problems.
We have a few races here in Austria. I want to drive the car at all these. (10 times / season).
I would be satisfied if I can get the car running like the Corvette on the freeway (long drives with averange speed of 100 mph at 3500 - 3800 rpm).

[Paul Massicotte]

My plans are to drive the car on the street for 90%.
The car should be able to run about 100 mph on freeway without problems.
We have a few races here in Austria. I want to drive the car at all these. (10 times / season).
I would be satisfied if I can get the car running like the Corvette on the freeway (long drives with averange speed of 100 mph at 3500 - 3800 rpm).

What's the first gear ratio of the T10?

What's the rear end gear ratio?

It's doable with a 4 speed, but you'll be burning up clutches trying to get the car rolling.


These guys are right, you might be better suited for a Tremec 5 speed. But you'll need to cut the tranny tunnel of the car.

[austrian455]

What's the first gear ratio of the T10?

What's the rear end gear ratio?

It's doable with a 4 speed, but you'll be burning up clutches trying to get the car rolling.


These guys are right, you might be better suited for a Tremec 5 speed. But you'll need to cut the tranny tunnel of the car.


First gear ratio is 2.43.

Why do you think I will be burning up clutches? Because of the rear end gears (if I go below 3.23) ?

[Paul Massicotte]

You'll burn them up because of the force needed to get the 3.23's and down moving.

I drove my car with a 3.08 and a 2.20 1st gear. It wasn't a big deal. You'll shorten the life of the clutch discs. Not a big deal.

[austrian455]

OK, shorten the life of the clutch disks, but it won´t be hard enough that I can smell the clutch when driving through town with some traffic light stops (normal driving, no fast starts)?

[Paul Massicotte]

OK, shorten the life of the clutch disks, but it won´t be hard enough that I can smell the clutch when driving through town with some traffic light stops (normal driving, no fast starts)?



You should be fine if that's how you'll be driving it.