Who is the best Nailhead head porter

[BuickStreet]

And no I'm not talking about the guy with the funny hat who talkes your bags at the local 5 star.

I'm talking about who would I send a set of 401 heads to to get them ported and larger valves fitted...etc?

Is there a guru among us? I spy a set of heads on ebay going fairly cheap with no bids and I was thinking of buying them and having them sent a good head guy to work on and then have them sent down here to Australia. I don't trust anyone who doesn't know exactly what they're doing and have heard that Nailhead heads can flow as good as Stage 1 heads. Who does this work?

[Babeola]

Bill,

Carmen Faso in NY does the Nailhead 1.94” intake valve conversion (716-6934090). That is the largest intake valve that will fit next to the exhaust valve in the Nailhead. The intake valves must be unshrouded to get the maximum benefit form this conversion. Air flow at the lower end of the valve lift is greatly improved by this conversion over a stock valve at the same lift, but the larger intake valve intake becomes shrouded by the combustion chamber in the higher lift range of the valve. The shrouding reduces the air flow of the converted valve at higher lift to a level lower then the stock valve at the same lift. Unshrouding the converted intake valve greatly improves the high lift figures, and allows the converted valve to outflow the stock valve throughout the lift range. Unfortunately, unshrouding the converted valve will require removing at least 5cc of material from the combustion chamber. That in turn will drop your compression by at least ½ a point. This means custom pistons or decking the block to maintain the current compression ratio, or giving up compression.

Regardless of using the big valve, any of the following experienced fellows can achieve flow #s from the Nailhead that are similar to a 455 Stage One head with some mild to moderate porting:

Greg Gessler from NJ 908-362-7692
Steve Magnotti from NY 914-962-1325
Jim Burek from TX 915-855-6009
Ed Mosler from CA 559-441-8322

I would call and talk to all of them and see what they can offer you, and when you could have it. From my experience, these things have a way of taking some time.

Hope that helps - Cheryl :)

[BuickStreet]

Thanks Cheryl.

Could you guess as to how much all this might cost. Ballpark is ok.

Another problem is that of course I'm in Australia so phoning them all might will be challenging.

Have you had this work done yourself? Are the power gains worth the expense?

[SpecialWagon65]

Bill, Carmen did a set of heads for my 425. Its like $1000 for a standard job. The heads are great looking inside and out. I can't comment on the power yet. I should install the engine and get it broke in on my driver, but thats a lot of work and I am working on some other things. (Pondering what could be more important than MORE POWER??? WHat is wrong with me??)
I should be starting the convertible 4-speed within the month.
Pics soon. Cheers!

[BuickStreet]

When you say a "standard job" what do you mean? Is that like the work that Cheryl described above?

Also, are good heads easy to find? There's a set of pretty good standard heads on ebay for a fairly decent price and I was thinking about getting them worked on before they where shipped out here.

[txgwildcat]

Bill,
If you don't win the ones on Ebay I have some for $125/pr.

[BuickStreet]

Thanks TXG (what's your name?).

What condition are they in? Can you contact me off the board at bill@buickstreet.com? Can you send any pics?

I appreciate the offer. If I buy them can you hold them for a short while (I'll send you the money for them straight away) until I figure out where to send them for porting?

[SpecialWagon65]

All the things Cheryl said, yeah. The 5cc of material may be offset by the change in intake valves, the original is tuliped and the new 1.94" is flat. Not sure of total differences!! I should cc some heads to find out.
Carmen said he can sell them outright to you in Australia-us poor bastards in the US have to provide cores!

[BuickStreet]

Wow, now that's what I call service! Ted, you spoke to Carmen for me? Thanks.

Now for the big question...how much? How long will it take before a pair is ready? Is that with the 1.94" intake's?

Carmen's not on email is he? I'd like to find out a bit more about what he actually does to them. For example, does he flow test them? I expect that there are magnafluxed etc for cracks and pressure tested. Can he match a cam to the heads and my Dual Quad intake (or single 800 quadrajet) for a perfect setup? I know that the cam, heads and intake/exhaust should all match up for a real power increase. By the time I'm finished with this motor I'll have Tom Telesco's Roller rockers as well which should probably be taken into account as well.

[DugsSin]

Bill I would say for a fully worked set of heads $1500.00 easy. Our motors are not inexpensive as you know.
Carmen can set you up with a cam to match your heads, excellent time to do it.

[Adam Whitman]

SpeedyBuickGS said:Theres a nationally known head porter here in Billings..his name is Lloyd creek and he does a majority of Mondellos head work..he has one of the only wet flow benches in the country and he said he has had fantastic sucess with the nailheads using the wet flow bench to test..i know he sure makes those olds motors scream..he said it usually runs around 1500 bucks complete ..Rob

Now there is something I never would have guessed!

[Adam Whitman]

Not sure which is more unlikely...Olds would be the last on my list of GM engines for going fast; that is why my 50 Olds has a Buick engine unless I change my mind again.

However, real head porters are few and far between too.:confused: :Do No:

[flynbuick]

Adam Whitman said:Not sure which is more unlikely...Olds would be the last on my list of GM engines for going fast; that is why my 50 Olds has a Buick engine unless I change my mind again.

: :Do No:

Check out the L69 400 Olds v 401 Buick, 400 Pontiac GTO , 427 Chevy Biscayne and 426 Mopar in 1966. That year the Olds ran in C Stock and was national C stock champ. The 427 and 426 were in A stock. I do not remember for sure who was champ in A stock in 66 but from actually being there and seeing them run in 66, I would guess the Hemi. The 427 Biscayne , a forgotten car, is really quick though and will sneak up on you because it just does not look like it would have been that fast.

Still despite the cubes disadvantage look at the relative performance of the Olds. (The 65-67 Olds 400 is not the same engine as the 68-69 400 Olds) Tell em Pinion Angle Dave. Thanks to Dave I own a 66 L69, 4 speed with a 3.91 gear and at 3500 pounds it will suprise a lot of Buicks, Pontiacs and Chevys. And yes, we have some GS cars. We love those too.

www.cccvette.com/1966musclecars.htm

[Babeola]

Bill,

Here are some flow #s at 28” of water and a question to think about. If it flows like a 455 and has similar displacement to a 455, it should run like a ……………….?

Intake Flow at Lift (000=No value listed)
100-200-300-400-500-600
053-110-157-180-190-195 1.87” Nailhead Head (no porting)
059-119-164-179-183-184 1.94” Nailhead Head Conversion by Carmen Faso
000-117-160-194-197-000 2.00” 455 Non-Stage One Head (no porting)
062-127-171-197-212-219 1.87” Nailhead Head Ported by Greg Gessler
000-134-184-204-210-000 2.13” 455 Stage One Head (no porting)
061-121-172-201-215-223 1.94” Nailhead Head Ported by Steve Magnotti
000-150-194-214-227-000 2.00” 455 Non-Stage One Head (moderately ported)
000-144-197-232-246-000 2.13” 455 Stage One Head (moderately ported)

Exhaust Flow at Lift (000=No value listed)
100-200-300-400-500-600
045-077-099-114-119-120 1.50” Nailhead Head (no porting)
048-082-112-120-124-125 1.50” Nailhead Head w/valve job by Carmen Faso
048-083-108-130-138-141 1.50” Nailhead Head Ported by Greg Gessler
052-093-126-141-150-153 1.50” Nailhead Head Ported by Steve Magnotti
000-105-133-145-150-000 1.63” 455 Non-Stage One Head (no porting)
000-105-138-157-163-000 1.63” 455 Non-Stage One Head (moderately ported)
000-113-145-161-168-000 1.75” 455 Stage One Head (no porting)
000-113-148-170-178-000 1.75” 455 Stage One Head (moderately ported)

The cost of the Carmen Faso’s big valve conversion with new valves, spring, seats and valve job was as stated in the above post. The Greg Gessler heads inherited with flow sheets reads $700 for the porting and valve job. The additional porting to Carmen Faso’s big valve heads by Steve Magnotti was $450 (with some modifications to the Quadrajet intake), and 5ccs were lost before and after porting and unshrouding the big valves heads. I have a mold of the ported big valve combustion chamber that could be cced for a close estimate of combustion chamber volume if desired.

Mr. Burek has stated he can make Nailhead heads flow in 260s on the high side of the intake lift and in the 190s on the high side of the exhaust lift. I believe any of the other porters I mentioned in my first post (Gessler, Mosler, Magnotti) could get similar #s with more aggressive porting. Those #s are very close to the flow #s of competition ported iron Stage One 455 heads. I know firsthand that competition port iron 455 heads will run 11s in the quarter mile with a pretty mild 455 build up. My question again, if a Nailhead can flow like a 455 and has similar displacement (a 425 at .030” over is only 25 CI smaller then a 455), what will it run like?

Something to think about, and look forward to I believe – Cheryl
:)

[SpecialWagon65]

Wow, nice figures. I did speak with Carmen today, verified all the things Cheryl posted and got an update on the carbies he is working on for me. Installing the big 1.94 valve includes some bowl work- thats why they flow better than stock. Now I am putting all these ##s into a spreadsheet to look at %%s.

Bill, are you still thinking shorty headers?

Some very unscientific results- I removed the heat riser valve from the passenger side on my 65 Riv, installed a ss 2.25 exhaust. Seems to respond well to free-flowing exhaust. Thinking about the TA mandrel bendr 2.5" for the Riv next...If you have ever read a post flaming Kepich Exhaust, you know why. Drags on the ground, too hard to bend, junk.

[BuickStreet]

Thanks Ted, Cheryl. Nailheads aren't cheap are they? Lol...I knew that going in but I really like the sound of a revving Nailhead - kind of 'ballsy' and 'round'. It's a unique sound that others have commented on and I only have a 2 inch H-Pipe system with flow through mufflers on at the moment.

Ted, I'm not very sold on the whole shorty concept to be honest. I do agree that they would probably be better than stock manifolds and would give it a better sound. I'm going to get headers by Ed to design a set of correct header specs for my motor and get a local shop to mandrel bend and make them using one of his collectors. Or, I might even end up making them myself (ex-welder).

I've just helped a friend of mine build a nice 3 inch X-Pipe system for his 65 Lemans and it doesn't seem too hard, just a lot of work. Plus I believe that a good set of headers can be worth up to 50 lb/ft which is not a small amount. Add another 50-60 for a decent set of heads and another 20 or 30 with a good dual quad setup and matching cam. Better throw a set of Tom Telesco's Roller rockers and add a posi and some 3:42 gears and it soon starts to add up to a whole lot of fun on the way to work every morning (I insist on driving my Electra every day everywhere).

All I want to do is surprise the hell out of people with my huge car. Anyone can go reasonably fast in a small car with a big engine. I want to go fast with a big car - it's more relaxing and though I'm not entirely sure, I'd bet the smiles are a little bigger too.

[Dan K]

Thanks for the numbers, Cheryl! I was shocked to see how good Gessler's 1.50 intakes flowed compared to Magnotty's 1.94. I wonder if it's worth it to put in the 1.94's if the stock diameter can be made to flow that well. The surprising thing is that Magnotty's exhaust numbers seem significantly better compared to Gessler's. It seems one is better at intake porting, and the other at exhaust. There must be other issues.
I would love to send a pair of heads to get ported......Who to call, Gessler, Magnotty, Creek or Burek..........Another question comes to mind.....what is the best cam and piston combination considering streetability in a Q-jet 4-speed without power brakes? I don't plan on strip racing, but love to mess with the Saturday night heroes. I read all I can, but this stuff is still confusing. Dan

[Shaggy]

flynbuick said:Check out the L69 Olds v 400 Buick, 400 Pontiac GTO , 427 Chevy Biscayne and Mopar( Hemi ) in 1966.

www.cccvette.com/1966musclecars.htm

Is that a Nailhead GS running .03 quicker than a Hemi Charger :TU: .

[Babeola]

Dan,

None of the flow #s posted were from heads with all-out porting. They are just good representations of how a moderately ported Nailhead compares to a stock Nailhead and various 455 heads. The Magnotty exhaust ports are larger then the Gessler exhaust ports as I have a flange and stubs for 1 ¾” Nailhead headers. I am considering sending the Magnotti heads to Mr. Gessler or Mr. Burek to max out the flow of these heads and open up the combustion chamber to the edge of the piston. Since I am already in custom piston territory to keep the compression up, a set of custom J&Es aimed at maintaining 10.5 compression will be ordered once the heads values are established and related to the machine work necessary on the block, rods and deck. And, if I happened upon a stroker crank in the meantime …………

Here is some good information concerning camshaft selection: http://www.cranecams.com/camvtfaq.htm . I would think something in the low 240s* at .050” intake duration, and in the high 240s* to low 250s* at .050”on the exhaust duration side with a low to mid .500” lift on a wider lobe center (112) would serve you well in the 10 to one compression area. I don’t know if that would cause valve to piston interference with stock pistons, and it will require better springs and some guide clearance. It is best to have a cam ground to match your intake, exhaust and head flow, engine displacement, vehicle weight, transmission gearing, and rear gear. Most cam grinders and providers have software that will plot these variables and develop a cam that will make the most of your combination.

Bill, I hear what you are saying about a fast big car. There used to be a bread truck that ran 13s and a giant beat-up looking Mercury that ran low 12s at the local track. You had to marvel at these!

Cheryl :)

[Dan K]

Thanks, Cheryl!
I understand that you begin to give up low end torque when you open up the heads too much. I wonder if it's worth the extra effort to max them out on a street motor that won't be singing in the higher ranges like a 1/4 mile car. Any thoughts? Thanks, Dan

[BuickStreet]

Great link Cheryl. :TU:

I wonder what sort of power levels I can expect from a strong street 401? Who's got the strongest running Nailhead at the moment I wonder?

[Poppaluv]

This is a great thread. I've been doing some thinking about my up comming 425 rebuild and I truly didn't know where to start. I have not put much thought into "power matching" components. What order should things be decided and chosen for maximum power and torque Also what would you do without? I would like to hear anythoughts on this .
It would seem head work is in order for sure. Then it seem the block is designed around the heads?What would you NOT do and for what reason? I will be lookin' for as much Nailhead power myself!! :TU:
Since this is my first rebuild I want it done right. Still haven't found a guy locally. One person said he was in the buisness for 30 years. In the next breath asked "What's a Nailhead?":spank: So I'm coulting on your collective wisdom here :Smarty:

[BuickStreet]

Jason, I would stay well away from any machine shop that doesn't know what a Nailhead is.

That link that Cheryl posted to Crane Cams is a good place to start. It helps you determine your 'basic rpm' and 'cruise rpm at 60mph'. That's a good place to start as that will determine your application.

I would say that the first thing to do is decide your application. I would say that it can probably be narrowed down to two choices. Strong Street or strictly drag racing.

For "Strong Street" I'd be aiming for excellent mid range with 'respectable' top end. A mid range gear selection (3.23 or 3.42) would suit me nicely I'd say. A well prepared 800 Quadrajet or dual quad setup would be the intake of choice and good porting job with a fair amount of massaging of the heads without going overboard and a cam that works between 2,500 and 5,500 rpm. I'm not too concerned with low end power for the street as a stock Nailhead has heaps and some to spare.

My advice would be to save up until you have the funds to do everything properly (even if it means sending your engine to someone who you trust) and then do it once, with thought and careful planning, calculation and lot's of communication with everyone involved as to your intended use.

Drag Racing is easy. Just open everything up as much as it can take.

[DugsSin]

Hummm, now that we have a nice set of heads done. Who has had an intake manifold massaged? The Buick 2 X 4 could probably use a little help?
Seems I remember someone doing some flow work on an Offy, yea I know there supposed to be junk, and had it flowing like the Quadrajet.
Any thoughts??

[Poppaluv]

Thanx Bill:beer . "Heavy" , my '66 Riv will probably be just a street cruiser and never see a track ( there are none locally). I do have a dual intake for the Nailhead and just purchased a set of 3.42's. I hope I purchase all of my parts in order so I'm not screwed later on. About cams; I've been told so much about not going to a "healthier" cam do to a lack of performance-even decreasing the power that I'm at my wits end trying to make heads-or tails of it all.:Do No:

[BuickStreet]

Yeah the trick is in the rockers. Tom's Roller rockers should let us use all the ratio and therfore the roller rockers alone would add to the lift of even a stock cam.

I'm saving like mad to buy a set.

[Greg Gessler]

Dan K said:Thanks, Cheryl!
I understand that you begin to give up low end torque when you open up the heads too much. I wonder if it's worth the extra effort to max them out on a street motor that won't be singing in the higher ranges like a 1/4 mile car. Any thoughts? Thanks, Dan

I don't think you need to worry too much about losing low end torque in a 401 or 425. These engines have very small ports and flow in relationship to engine size. While it is best to discuss your complete combination with your head porter, in general a mild set of heads won't show any loss in low-end torque and even an all-out nailhead port job would probably be fine except in a very heavy car with no gear and low stall speed converter. The 401/425 ports are so small to begin with I wouldn't concern myself with them being to big in 95% of all cases.

The Nailheads respond nicely to even mild porting. I have seen street cars pick up 4 MPH in the quarter with mild porting in a car using only a 2 speed trans.

[Greg Gessler]

DugsSin said:Hummm, now that we have a nice set of heads done. Who has had an intake manifold massaged? The Buick 2 X 4 could probably use a little help?
Seems I remember someone doing some flow work on an Offy, yea I know there supposed to be junk, and had it flowing like the Quadrajet.
Any thoughts??

Attached are the results of some work that I did to a 401 Q-Jet factory intake.

[DugsSin]

Greg what improvements do you feel could be made on one of Buicks stock cast 2X4 intake? My motor is going to be 75% street but since I have a nice set of heads already done I'm looking to eliminate the weakest points.
Thanks in Advance

[Greg Gessler]

DugsSin said:Greg what improvements do you feel could be made on one of Buicks stock cast 2X4 intake? My motor is going to be 75% street but since I have a nice set of heads already done I'm looking to eliminate the weakest points.
Thanks in Advance

Doug, I have not worked on a 2X4 425 intake yet, but i'm sure that after flowtesting one, I would find several runners that flow less that the others and would need more work to bring them up to speed. Alot would depend on how much your heads flow and intended application.

[Dan K]

I am looking forward to rebuilding my motor in the near future. If you port a set of heads, are you generally able to make recommendations regarding cam grind? I have been doing a little too much thinking(my brain heats up and I get confused) about possible combinations, and it seems everything centers around cam choice. I'd like maximum porting with maximum streetable cam with headers and Qjet in a 4-spd. Where do you get the cam and custom pistons once you've opened up the heads? I'd like to go roller but don't know where to begin. I know some of the TR folks are modifying their lifter bores to use roller liters out of other motors.....All these questions and possibilities have kept me from pulling the motor so far, as it runs fine......Thanks, Dan

[BlownNailhead]

My blown 401 engine was built by Jim Burek (PAE). The heads have some mild porting work and these are the flow numbers (cfm) at 28 inches:
Lift - Intake - Exhaust
.100 - 74 - 51
.200 - 120 - 99
.300 - 169 - 123
.400 - 193 - 141
.500 - 201 - 150

This is my engine that is currently needing the heads rebuilt as I lost the oil feed to one of the rocker shafts and it ate the valve guides. So I do not have any numbers for performance. I bought the car from my friend and he reported that it ran very strong before it messed up.

add on edit: I forgot to mention that my heads are stock valve sizes.

[DugsSin]

Greg if we don't get rained out for the Holmdel picnic are you planning to attend? If so I will bring the flow sheets from the heads and the manifold.
Once you find out what it can do, carb choices are next:Do No:

[GSThunder]

Doug, I can tell you this, I've had Greg Gessler do two sets of heads for me and you saw the work he did on my exhaust manifolds. The throttle response of my black GS is nothing short of incredible. I'm sure if you decide to have him do the porting for you, you'll be more than happy...:TU:

[Greg Gessler]

DugsSin said:Greg if we don't get rained out for the Holmdel picnic are you planning to attend? If so I will bring the flow sheets from the heads and the manifold.
Once you find out what it can do, carb choices are next:Do No:

I won't be able to make the picnic. :ball: I have a family thing going on the same day. Hopefully I'll be able to make the next? one.

[Babeola]

Greg G. Said: Even an all-out nailhead port job would probably be fine except in a very heavy car with no gear and low stall speed converter. The 401/425 ports are so small to begin with I wouldn't concern myself with them being to big in 95% of all cases.

Generally porting improves air flow throughout the RPM range, and in turn produces more horsepower and torque through the same RPM range while also extending the upper RPM range. The more air/fuel mix in at a given RPM, the more bang: can’t loose that way! Case in point, a 455 (sorry, this is where a lot of my experience is transferred from) with a mild Stage-One port job in a full weight Skylark with 3500 stall converter and 3.55 rear gear. The car runs 11.70s at the track. Said vehicle has heads upgraded to competition port with no other changes and then runs 11.40s using the same shift points, and was capable of a little better time by shifting at a slightly higher RPM. Shifting at a higher RPM only slowed the times before the competition port. Three tenths quicker in an 11 second car from porting already ported heads is a big improvement. Although porting tends to be expensive, nothing will complement all other modifications or future modifications like porting. That is almost always the first thing I have done or look for when purchasing.

Cheryl :)