Broke 4 bolts in my 401 engine?

[miels]

Hello everyone.

I had this great idea to change my waterpump since my radiator sat for years with fluid in it. I had a extra radiator and didn't want rust particles circling through my system so when I went to remove the water pump some of the studs broke while half way out. I need help. I bought a kit to remove broken studs, but after i drilled into the center of the stud and tapped the piece to remove it in, it broke also??? So now I have 4 stuck studs 2 of which have broken pieces in the center of them. I have no idea how to remove these. Please help

[garybuick]

Ill pray for you miels.

[New SBB]

do a search for PB BLASTER on this forum. There are probably several that address just what to do. PB Blaster is a spray that loosens rusted bolts, etc. Good stuff, but you must be patient.

[PistonFire]

do a search for PB BLASTER on this forum. There are probably several that address just what to do. PB Blaster is a spray that loosens rusted bolts, etc. Good stuff, but you must be patient.

I use PB Blaster on everything. Can't say enough good about the stuff.

[garybuick]

idk about PB blaster but Im trying to look at it on their website and it wont open. Site opens but click on PB blaster catalyst and it times out...

[OhioGS400]

Home Depot carries it, as well as most parts stores. Great stuff.

[mtdman]

You're probably best off cutting the studs flush and drilling them out and tapping a new thread. Especially if they're all siezed up. Good luck.

[doc]

pb blaster or 50/50 atf/acetone mixture,,,, what I do with those really stubborn ones is to take a very small drill and drill in from the side, right where I figure the threads are and then take a needle and srynge and squirt the mixture in the drilled hole....and let it soak for an hour....and use a heat gun....

[buick64203]

Take some acetylene and heat up around the bolt. Dont heat the bolt! Once the area has some heat on it, clamp a vise grip on the stud and try and unloosen it.

heat works the best.

As far as getting out the broken extractor, your going to have to use a chisel and a hammer and break it apart. Cover up areas of the car that you dont want getting pelted with debris.

[buick64203]

This thread begs the question-

What was wrong with the water pump you took off?

[doc]

I would rather use a heat gun on a aluminum part , than a acetelene torch,,,, to much chance for a melt down.... :Brow: :Brow:

[buick64203]

I would rather use a heat gun on a aluminum part , than a acetelene torch,,,, to much chance for a melt down.... :Brow: :Brow:


I use a plumbers torch. Just an acetylene tank. Ive heated aluminum timing covers up without a problem. It doesnt take much heat to free up a steel bolt in aluminum. The aluminum wont melt. Now if you add a little oxygen, that a different story!

There are alot of options here. He should go with whatever he's most comfortable with doing.

[71skylark3504v]

I've found an even better solution to these broken bolts. Put the vice grips down and pay a machine shop $15 to drill out and helicoil it. Works every time.:Brow:

[New SBB]

I've found an even better solution to these broken bolts. Put the vice grips down and pay a machine shop $15 to drill out and helicoil it. Works every time.:Brow:Still not that familiar with Buick engines, but sounds to me like the broken bolts are sticking out of the block. If so, getting the car to the shop without a waterpump is going to be a bit tricky.

[71skylark3504v]

Still not that familiar with Buick engines, but sounds to me like the broken bolts are sticking out of the block. If so, getting the car to the shop without a waterpump is going to be a bit tricky.

Yeah, that is not fun.

[miels]

Thanks guys.

Here is the situation: 3 bolts are flush with the opening. And 1 broke while almost out(about 1" left in engine and i cant see it no matter what i do.)

I'll be sure to use PB blaster in the future cause wd40 did not work and i let it sit.

I'd love to have a machine shop tackle it for me but transport is a problem.

I attemped this repair because after opening the radiator stop cock and watching it pee brown floating particles, I was worried about the new radiator being contaminated if the water pump were to pump rust particles through also. I now wish I'd left it alone because it was only pitted a little and still spun free and quietly. I just wish I'd known wd40 was that big of a waste. Here i thought i was doing something.

My biggest problem is I've never done tapping and drilling and fear I might cause more harm than good. I've changed waterpumps on every classic i've ever owned and never had a bolt break so no experience here at all...:Do No:

[buick64203]

So all the bolts are broken in the aluminum timing case? If so, remove the timing case and bring it to a machine shop. Or get another timing cover.

[mtdman]

I use a plumbers torch. Just an acetylene tank. Ive heated aluminum timing covers up without a problem. It doesnt take much heat to free up a steel bolt in aluminum. The aluminum wont melt. Now if you add a little oxygen, that a different story!

There are alot of options here. He should go with whatever he's most comfortable with doing.
When you heat it, do you cool slowly or douse it with water and cool it fast?

[buick64203]

When you heat it, do you cool slowly or douse it with water and cool it fast?


In your case, this isnt going to work because you dont have any of the bolt to attach the vise grip to. If you did, you would heat the area around the bolt. Not the bolt itself. Once the area is hot, clamp the vice grips on the bolt and try and loosen it. You dont usually need to get it super hot. Especially since its only aluminum. Once the bolt is out, you just let the area cool down.


I just recently did this with Jen's Mustang. I broke a bolt in the timing case cover. A little heat and it came right out. Happens to the best of us.

[miels]

Wow... Can you see how green i really am? Didn't even think of removing or replacing the cover. This is the best news I've heard all day. This time I'll be sure to PB blaster everything and let it set.

Thank you so much gentlemen

Wait... Now i think about it the one bolt that broke partly in is the one that holds the alternator bracket... Don't know if this makes any difference or not.

[lapham3@aol.com]

This sounds like an ugly one-been there. You are going to need a 1 1/8" socket to get the crankbolt off. It's going to be very tight and I rig up my breaker bar with a pipe extention to get it wedged at the frame and then 'bump over' the engine with the starter to pop it loose. I generally use propane to heat alumunum covers such as this. Soak and heat and wiggle and pry and pray....take your time-you'll get it-might need another cover in the end, but they're around-good luck!

[doc]

be double sure you use anti seize compound when you put it back together.....:Brow: :Brow:

[New SBB]

I have used so much WD40 trying to loosen rusted bolts that they should send me a prize. All WD40 is for is to lube moving parts, and prevent rust. PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench or similar is for penetrating into rusted spots that need freeing up. It moves slowly thru rust, but it moves. Gently tapping the bolt moves the bolt ever so slightly, and allows the penetrant to move further in. After a while, theoretically, the entire bolt's threads should be wet with penetrant, which at this point is going to act as a lubricant to aid in finally being able to turn the rusted bolt out. Heating the metal containing the female part of the fastener (like a nut or block) makes it expand ever so slightly to help break the bond between bolt and hole. (Hope no mods are reading this--I might get busted for using terms like female, nut, hole, lubrication, penetrant...No wonder guys like cars! ahem) Anyway, you get the idea for use on future rusted fastener issues. :bglasses:

[harley9443]

After reading your dilema, I have to agree with buick64203 and just replace the front cover or timing cover as it is sometimes called. Starting with a new part will ensure no further problems when you install the new water pump. Its more work but a much better end result.

[John Eberly]

Did the timing cover bolts turn at all before they broke? If not, the heads may have twisted right off without moving the bolts at all.

Here's the bad news you did not want to hear - the bolts are PROBABLY frozen to the timing cover. This happens with steel and aluminum, and it might mean that you will have a tough time prying the cover loose without wrecking it.

This is a place to go slow and work on maintaining your cool. Worst case would be to haul the car to a shop and let them deal with it - remember that IS an option.

I went through this, and I solved it myself but only had one bolt stuck in the cover. I was able to get the rest out, and I finally ended op rotating the entire cover like a wrench to get the bolt out. I was then able to heat and soak the bolt and drive it out on the bench.

One recommendation - try Aerokroil penetrating oil. It's much better than PB Blaster and really works with a little heat and waiting a day or so after squirting it on. You get get it on Amazon online of all places.

Good luck -

[JZRIV]

Here's the bad news you did not want to hear - the bolts are PROBABLY frozen to the timing cover. This happens with steel and aluminum, and it might mean that you will have a tough time prying the cover loose without wrecking it.
Good luck -

The condition mentioned above is very likely.
Which bolts broke exactly? Do they have 7/16" heads or 1/2" heads? The smaller 7/16" head bolts will be short and won't pose a problem removing the cover. The 1/2" head bolts go through the cover into the block. The dissimilar metals on the aluminum cover and the steel reacts and oxidizes causing them to seize bad. Rarely do these seize where the threads go into the block on the long bolts. Its almost always the bolt to the aluminum whether it be the short threaded bolts or the long smooth part of the bolt shaft that passes through the cover into the block.

So, if the 1/2" head bolt(s) broke, removing the timing cover can be very difficult because it usually requires prying on the cover somewhere and aluminum is easily damaged.

If its just the little 7/16" head bolts you won't have a problem removing the cover. If you remove the cover, you'll need a timing cover gasket set and while its off if the timing gear has nylon teeth replace the chain and gears as well.

Also good to know....the cover is pinned to the block so it must come straight out about 1/4" before it will rotate to try and wiggle it off the broken bolt.

The right amount of heat, penetrating oil plus patience is the best combination.

[doc]

What I did in this situation was to take a very small drill and drill in from the side of the bolt boss in the timing gear cover untill I felt the bit hit steel instead of aluminum/corrosion..... then I took a needle and sryinge and injected some atf several times over and heated the area with a heat gun....

[miels]

Thank you gentlemen. I haven't tackled the riv timing cover yet because of how I've been working. I broke two of the smaller bolts and 2 of the 1/2" bolts. I think they are broken in the cover if my memory serves me correctly. I damn sure hope they are. I'm currently looking for a replacement cover because i think this is gonna get really ugly. The bolt that holds down the alternator bracket was almost completely out when it broke. This bolt has some of its threads showing.

[housefull]

You're probably best off cutting the studs flush and drilling them out and tapping a new thread. Especially if they're all siezed up. Good luck.
pb blaster or 50/50 atf/acetone mixture,,,, what I do with those really stubborn ones is to take a very small drill and drill in from the side, right where I figure the threads are and then take a needle and srynge and squirt the mixture in the drilled hole....and let it soak for an hour....and use a heat gun....

[miels]

Turns out they were not broken in the cover and only one was broken in block. About half an inch. I gonna attempt to remove this today. Good news is i dont need another timing cover. Another lesson i learned is do not use bolts from home depot!! They are cheap and made of zinc?

thankks again

[rmstg2]

Wow... Can you see how green i really am? Didn't even think of removing or replacing the cover. This is the best news I've heard all day. This time I'll be sure to PB blaster everything and let it set.

Thank you so much gentlemen

Wait... Now i think about it the one bolt that broke partly in is the one that holds the alternator bracket... Don't know if this makes any difference or not.

It makes sense but the alternator bracket bolt also screws into the block so even when you take the cover off you still have problems. hopefully the bolt will be stick out of the block and you can get a hold of it. Good luck

Bob H.