Compression...and piston selection?

[grant455gs]

For the second time now, my 455 has broke a hypereutectic piston. Why I fell for this trap a second time?? IDK:Dou:

I made so many mistakes, its pityful, but I havn't had a whole lot of help either over the years. A whole lot of misinformation and HYPE from SO-CALLED EXPERTS! So if you don't REALLY know what your talkin' bout, PLEASE DO NOT ANSWER this post!

I've known for quite some time that I REALLY NEEDED forged pistons, but stubborness and LOFunds jinxed me. Now I'm READY TO LISTEN!

Anyways, I'm running 70 (wildcat) heads that have been "worked on" SEVERAL times! First time, valves were "converted to Stage 1", hardened exhaust seats, new guides and seals, new stock rockers. Cam was Poston 113w Rhoads lifters, all iron motor, breathing through straws! Gears were 3.90
Second time, heads were "extensively ported" by a local "head porting guru" (my descrip.) Begrugingly admited airflow #'s at 276I & 199E?? Cam changed to TA 510H. Fed Mogul lifters were the only ones I could get to not collapse! Comp. was meas at 10.4 ACTUAL, 0-deck, 74cc comb cham. TA roller rockers, TA 17/8" headers, TA 3" dual ex. no crossover, TA SP1 (ported and matched by "local guru"), Holley 800D.P. (also worked over by same said person, increased to over "900 cfm"), 4.33 gears and 4.10's later, MSD ignition,and fuel system MUCH modified w/sump kit, Mallory Comp 140, -8 fuel line to reg. Trans. is a mod. T350, aftermarket bell, ATI 3800? (seems alot more like 4200 to me!!), and Hoosier 10"x 29" slicks.

I've had a HUGE problem w/ rod bearings over the years, broke
TWO HYPEREUTECTIC PISTONS! now, and had MAJOR problems with getting a "quality valve job", IE stem heights equal! This now seems to be addressed finally. I'm sure I've answered MOST of my piston problems, so let me be more presise:

Assuming head and valvetrain stays the same, which piston/compression should I use? BTW rods were stock, but excessively lightened and polished, crank indexed, cut, polished, and everything balanced, TA S.F.I. flexplate, stock damper.

This much I know, I will be purchasing aftermarket steel rods this time and aftermarket S.F.I. balancer, new forged pistons, and hopefully better machinework!

I'm sure that this combo is a very hot street/strip combo but I've never really got shortblock assy to last very long??:Do No: :ball: :stmad: I have run a 12:20@110 60'@1.65 (4.33, BEFORE FUEL SYSTEM UPGRADE!!)

I THINK THAT IT COULD HAVE BEEN/SHOULD BE A VERY LOW 11 SEC CAR!

Any HELP? SUGGESTIONS? COMMENTS? PISTON/COMPRESSION???
:confused: :confused:

[rh455]

Grant

I've never been a fan of Hyper's, but I do believe that there are some engine builders here that DO know how to set up/use them. I've always felt that forged are the only way to go. The combo that you've listed reflects 11 second capability just set up issues, cam selection and verifying head/intake flow. The piston that really appeals to me are the TA conical dish and the Wiseco 10.0:1. Both really look nice and I've seen some really impressive et's with both. It would be money well spent on either.

[Jim Weise]

Grant,

From what a recall, I believe I heard that those pistons have a 16 cc dish. If my memory serves, since I have only heard the CC of the piston, and have and will not use that piston, I could be wrong.

If that's the deal, then assuming .040 composition head gaskets, your compression is about 10.5-1, which is a little light for that cam, in my opinion. I'd like to see you run another full point, if your going to hang onto that cam. Or, your going to have to advance the cam 6-8*, to get the intake valve closing number in line, so the motor will make decent mid range torque. But it's a better deal to run it with the higher compression, and run the cam 2-4* advanced.

As far the rotating assembly goes, do yourself a favor, and get the sportman rods, and SRP pistons from TA... super nice pieces, and once you buy them once, your good to go.

Your also looking to put that motor in block girdle territory, so get on of those on there.

Run a TA cover, or a good stocker properly set up and ported, run an aftermarket or stock deepened pan, and you should be good to go.

Personally, I would get the girdle, rods, pistons, chuck that hydraulic cam, put in a TA 298-04F solid cam, run the compression up to around 11-11.5 by cutting the decks on the heads (you will need64- 60 cc chambers) and go for it.



Got a motor just like that on the stand now, except with 316/236 cfm STG 1 Alum heads, and a matching solid camshaft for that combo, and I fully expect it to make right around 600+ HP. You should be able to do about the same, with your iron heads, and that bigger cam.

It's our new Level 2A-HP motor, and should be on the dyno next week.

That will get you way down in the 11's, if not into the high tens.

[grant455gs]

I'm thinking that 10.4 (if that was actually computed right), is REALLY much too low.. cranking compression was VERY LOW, around 140-160 if I remember correctly. It was a few years ago:Do No: . I don't remember if I played around with cam advance or not, I think I advanced 4 deg. w/rollmaster. If I'm supposed to have 200-210psi, would I be correct in assuming that 1) Cam too large for compression 2) Could have advanced the cam more (TA advised 8 deg advance!) 3) If I want to stay with this cam, I need more compression.

More Questions::Dou:

1) Assuming .030+ bore, 74cc comb. chamber, orange crush gasket, 0 decked block, what would comp. be with Wiseco/flattops Vs Wiseco/flattops?

2) Assuming my headflow is right ( I think it was 266 Intake not 276! 199 exhaust is right) am I on the right track with compression, headflow, cam timing?

3) I really want to use a solid lifter cam , but think that TA's 308S is MUCH too large for my combo (maybe alum. heads w/porting!). Would TA 210 work alright?

I hope someone will help me, and I'm not :boring: you to :sleep:

I also realize this is a busy time of year for most of us, so I appreciate your help/advice!:beer

[grant455gs]

Thanks Jim for responding!
So you think I should use dished pistons, (TA/SRP's are a fine choice, OK with me!!), and mill the heads down to 60-65cc's??

I really do want the solid cam, but what is this new T/A one? I've never heard of it?? Are the specs listed in their catalog?

Actually, I'm trying to stay less than 600 horses because 1)weight of car,3600lbs; 2) Strength of rearend, mildly builtup 12-bolt; and finally trying to avoid girdle! Should I just deal with the first two, and finally accept the girdle?

I have a homebuilt deep-sump oil pan that strangely resembles T/A's in every way, but I'm thinking about Poston's alum one w/girdle. I know there NOT as good, but what are your feelings in MY case? Not good enough? OR probably would work? How does T/A's girdle work with steel oil pan?

How much are those new blocks??

My wife is standing right behind me :spank: Ouch! quit hittin me!!

[GS Kubisch]

Grant
Don't be too afraid of the 308s....
A few years back while waiting for a motor I used one in a basically stock 69 430 shortblock.
800 Holley
TA intake
"Not as good" (as yours) heads
compression was 9.6
4.10 gear w/30" tires
4200 stall
3500 lbs w/driver
I ran 11.26 at 116 w/ a 1.47 60 foot

for what it's worth....also w/ the 308S

When my 464 was ready w/ better heads and more compression I went in the 10-teens after getting the race weight w/ driver down to 3200lbs.

There are a few good forged pistons out there.
I would get away from the "Hypers" as quickly as possible.

Don't rule out grinding the crank to use a Chevy rod.
In some cases this is more cost effective/practical.

And if you don't/can't go with the girdle,I know of some that have gotten away with "pinning" the main caps.

The new iron blocks are in the $3700 range....

Good luck,it sounds as though the car should be well into the 11's even at 3600 lbs.

Tell the Wife.....At least she can find you.You aren't the fool spending all the cash at the Bar:Smarty:

[grant455gs]

Umm, I WAS the guy at the bar for the last 5 years...:Dou: Cars been sittin' for awhile :Dou:
I'm in AA and treatment now..there's HOPE:grin:

I havn't ruled out BBC rods at all, as a matter of fact I wonder about their possibility 10 years ago:Brow:

Is there a FACs here on how to use them exactly?:confused:

[grant455gs]

GS Kubisch said:Grant
Don't be too afraid of the 308s....
A few years back while waiting for a motor I used one in a basically stock 69 430 shortblock.
800 Holley
TA intake
"Not as good" (as yours) heads
compression was 9.6
4.10 gear w/30" tires
4200 stall
3500 lbs w/driver
I ran 11.26 at 116 w/ a 1.47 60 foot

Good luck,it sounds as though the car should be well into the 11's even at 3600 lbs.


This is where I thought I should have been last time I ran,:Do No:

Maybe it had to do with stock fuel line and Stage 1 mech. fuel pump?:error: :jd: :Dou: :spank:

That's been taken care of now with rear sump kit, Mallory Comp 140 pump, and various sizes of braided fuel line:TU:

[rh455]

Jim Weise said:Grant,


Personally, I would get the girdle, rods, pistons, chuck that hydraulic cam, put in a TA 298-04F solid cam, run the compression up to around 11-11.5 by cutting the decks on the heads (you will need64- 60 cc chambers) and go for it.




Jim

Isn't that a lot to cut from those heads? Won't he have to get the intake milled to match? That cam must be something new and not in the catalog. It looks like something just below the 308s. Can 11.0:1 pistons still run on pump gas if zero decked?

[grant455gs]

Would these work?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33623&item=2417930420

[grant455gs]

How about these?http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33623&item=2417951590

Master Racing? Who?:confused:

[grant455gs]

Or can I just make this deal work for http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33623&item=2417776958me?

I think I'm calling this place tomorrow:bglasses:

[Jim Weise]

I would really be surprised if that Rod is not made by Crower.. Looks exactly like the the TA Sportsman Rod, which is made by Crower for TA exclusively.

IT's a real good rod, and yes, you can use Chev's, or Pontiac rods, and fool with the bearings, but once again, not worth the hassle if you ask me. Once you own those rods, they will go in any Buick motor, on any crank, and work with any Buick Piston.

Yes, that 04F cam is a new one, and it's a bit smaller than the 308, but like was mentioned, I would not be afraid to go with the 308 either.

You could go with a flat top, as long as you don't mind the 12.25-1 compression, and if you went with a 308, I would prolly want that compression. Like Gary, many years ago, we ran a full weight (4100 lbs) GS, with 240 cfm heads, SP-1, TQ-1000, and the rest of the race car goodies, and that car went all the way down into the 11 teens at 120 mph.

Would have been easy high tens, with your heads.

As far as dished pistons go, if you build and 11-1 motor, cut .040 off your heads, you could possibly get away with just putting around on the street on pump gas.. but when your into it, your going to want to have prolly a 50/50 mix of 108 and pump premo. But of course, this varies with each motor, and you need to be careful about not detonating it too much.

I personally like that SRP piston, because, aside from all the other features it has, it has a conical dish.. so the piston is balanced unto itself, when you consider it's weight on each side of the pin axis. Inverted Dome pistons are generally out of balance, and their is varing opinons on out there as to the effect of this out of balance condition.

I have personally seen 3 STG 2 pump gas motors over 600 HP with these conical dish pistons, in the last 3 months. So they certainly seem to be working well.

buck up an buy the girdle.. trust me on this one.. yes, $1100 now, by the time you put it on, but it's an investment, and an insurance policy.

And think where you would be at money wise, if you had only built this thing once! Make sure this is the last time....

just food for thought.

JW

[Jim Weise]

Dude.. the block girdle is still $495.... but it does not just fall onto the motor... it takes $5-600 worth of machining to put it on, if they do it right with a surface of the oil pan rail, and then do the line bore to the mains.. bore, not hone.. I have all my motors bored, with a girdle, because the sizes come out more accurately, thruout the block.

Same price as it was in '95, more or less..


Sportsman rods are $699... and IMHO worth every bit of the price difference over the cheaper rods.

SRP Pistons, if he is still running the intro price, are $585.00

Very nice pieces for the price.



JW

[grant455gs]

True, true, your right on the girdle, and I TOTALLY AGREE with prices for machine work needed! I see what you meant now. I just ASSumed they had gone UP!

The Sportsman rods, again I was wrong I thought you were talking about the "GOOD ONES". I didn't even know they offered a $699 for us "medium" guys:Dou:

The SRP's also definetely fall into my price range. Prolly the best choice for my combo too!? JE's prolly arn't best for ANY street use!
What's wrong with the Wiseco's? (Two Jim's are confusing!)

I truly appreciate the time you have spent:Comp: today, and I DO agree with EVERYTHING you've recommended. I just want to make sure in my own mind that I'm getting unbiased and unopinionated advice THIS TIME! It's gotta be RIGHT THIS TIME!! :stmad: Anyways, thanks for the
advice, :grin: you've got me pointed in the right direction!! :TU:

[grant455gs]

And think where you would be at money wise, if you had only built this thing once! Make sure this is the last time....

just food for thought.

JW

:Dou: Yeah anyways I'm done beating myself up over the past, time to move this baby forward...

I'm full, THANX!:grin:

[Jim Weise]

grant455gs said:
What's wrong with the Wiseco's?

Posted previously..I personally like that SRP piston, because, aside from all the other features it has, it has a conical dish.. so the piston is balanced unto itself, when you consider it's weight on each side of the pin axis. Inverted Dome pistons are generally out of balance, and their is varing opinons on out there as to the effect of this out of balance condition.

Wiseco's have an inverted dome..




(Two Jim's are confusing!)



Two different points of view..

JW

[Bobb Makley]

I decide to do some investigating after reading Jims post on pistons. I figured if the conical dish was the better piston then we were going to have to have Wiseco change the design. I thought I would share my findings with all of you:

This info is from Wiseco pistons and is their reason for doing the pistons in the manner they do

The Wiseco is a mirrored reverse dome, which means the underside of the piston has the dome on both sides, which negates any issue with balance the only issue that is there will be from valve reliefs, which will be virtually negligible.

A reverse dome piston offers a better Quench area than does a Conical dish piston.

Do to the design of the piston it can be produced lighter than a conical dish for a lighter over all weight. The conical dish piston has to start with a thicker top to allow for machining

Once again do to the design of the piston and the amount of material that has to be machined from the center of a conical dish piston a reverse dome has a stronger deck surface (NO2 :Brow: )

This leads me to believe that a lighter piston that is stronger and has no balance issue is not such a bad thing.

I was told that a conical dish piston is far better for a 4 valve head than a reverse dome though:Dou:

For just a kicker he also told me that there are far more reverse dome pistons used in NASCAR than the conical dish.

I just wonder if piston companies are going to conical dishes do to decreased machining cost or better performance :Do No:

Before a flame starts I posted this for a, from the other side of the fence kind of thing only. It appeared to me that the Wiseco was becoming a target and I decided to try and offer up facts for its design not assumptions. I hope this may help anyone looking at pistons there are several sources for Wiseco. PAE, Dehabey Racing and Finish Line Motorsports.


I will post my opinion on the rod issue also the TA Rod is a very nice piece. As for a drop into the engine and go extremely good value for the Quality and the money. That being said I have not built a stock stroke performance motor for anyone for a while. Up until recently we have not had a good bearing to put into one and bearing speeds are always a concern. I can sell a set of 6.800 long eagle rods for 400 bucks that give you a better rod to stroke ratio than we already have and decrease bearing speeds at the same time. To have a standard crank ground it will cost 100 to 150 dollars depending on the grinder and to have a stoker cut to except stock width BB Chevy bearings cost around 350 to 375 a difference of around 250 bucks add that to the rods and you have 650$ plus better rod to stroke ratio, lower bearing speeds and you can get bearings anywhere you wish to buy them. The big thing is you can tell your buddy's you have a 470:TU: . I just like the value for the dollars spent better than doing a 464 but that is strictly my opinion and like a you know what, every has one.:moonu: I meant a Chevy by the way:laugh: :laugh:

[Jim Weise]

Good info Bobb..


I had wondered if those Wisco's were a mirrored deal..

Other features that piston has?

Lots of ways to skin the cat.. so to speak..

JW

[Bobb Makley]

Jim

I went back and found the post that we were comparing pistons from earlier this year. just thought I would repost it here.


Sorry guy's I had to go staight to the race shop tonight so I could not answer your Questions before this. I would like to say these pistons are designed to fill a gap between speed-pro pistons and High dollar lightweight ones. So I will do my best to answer all the things you have asked if I miss something just let me know and If I don't have the answer I will try and get it.

I will do the flat tops first

Weight 679 Grams
Compression height 1.98
Wrist pin 1.00
Deck thickness .180
Valve relief’s .260
Pocket dia. 2.45
Pin oilers Yes
Radius valve reliefs
Pins are fit and do have locks

Now for the dished pistons

Weight 700 grams
Compression height 1.98
Wrist pin 1.00
Deck thickness .325
Dish .125
Valve relief’s .260
Total of -22cc
Valve pocket dia 2.45
Pin oilers yes
Radius valve reliefs
Pins fit and do have locks


As far as your question about custom skirt designs It does have the same skirt as my race pistons based on the number given, But I do not pretend to know anything about designing a piston so I let them do it.

Over size are .038 and .060 we do not have .060 it would have to be ordered in

Piston rings are Hastings Power-Flex moly race rings. They have the vent flex oil control ring, which is one of the best designs in the industry. We use these rings in all of the motors we build from our tube car up to my wife’s regal. Wisco provides these with the pistons we have not added these to the deal ourselves.

The radius valve relief is what gives the illusion of it being deeper Jim instead of a straight edge they have put a small radius in the relief to enhance flame travel.

I hope I have answered all the questions if not just ask or give us a call and we will try to answer them.

As you stated about the ta piston these are the same as the srp they just don't have the internal lightening done to them as there race version does.

[GS Kubisch]

Along w/ the other benefits of a Chevy rod journal.....
A good crank shop will give you a nice radius at the edge of the journal for added strength.

I also hear of great swap meet deals from guys that ordered the wrong rods and are willing to deal.
You can look for the best buy on rods and fit them to your application,or your application to them.

[slimfromnz]

Excuse my ignorance guys!
I have only just discovered this by reading this post. So I can use 6.8" BBC rods? :Brow: How much is machined of the big end journals? Will the rest of the machining depend on what sort of pistons I decide to go with?

Thanks
Royden

[grant455gs]

But do the Wiseco's work on BBC rods? What piston does work with 6.8" rods? Or are you talking about shorter than that?

[Bobb Makley]

First when using a 6.8-rod it has to be planned ahead. You will off set grind the crank making it 3.950 stroke. When they do this they will side grind the crank to allow the rods to fit the crank. Yes you will have to spend a couple more dollars for a custom piston because the pin is moved up in the piston. One very nice part of that is the piston can be built a liter do to the moving of the pin

[slimfromnz]

Why are the BBC rods in this post 6.8" when i think standard they are 6.135":confused:

[grant455gs]

I see, so all the pistons that everyones talkin bout is not going to work with this choice. But it does have its advantages. So what would one do as far as getting a piston then? I mean who does this and how much more would this cost than SRP/JE or Wiseco and forged TA Sportman rods combo that drops right in?

I understand that going this way:

1) Longer than stock rods= custom pistons, but slower piston speed

2) More expensive machinework needed on crank= lighter crank with increased stroke and wider, better bearings

3) Expensive custom pistons = but much lighter, and made to order, exact fit for MY engine.

I think that going this way would definetely be great and possibly the better way, but at what cost, $wise?

[grant455gs]

slimfromnz said:Why are the BBC rods in this post 6.8" when i think standard they are 6.135":confused:

Yes, standard they are 6.135, but 6.8 is just a longer option amongst many others...

[Bobb Makley]

Just a heads up I should know by the end of the week I think we are going to have Wiseco make a forge tru that will fit the 6.800 rod appplication. At a simalair cost to what we have now.:TU: :cool: . I will let you know as soon as I do.

[grant455gs]

Thanks Bob, this is exactly the kind of answers I love!:TU:

[Bobb Makley]

The longer rod will give you a better rod to stroke ratio. We run a 7.125 long rod in are 494 in the tube chassis car. I think there was a very long discussion about the benefits or not of a long rod on this board. I can't give you proof one way or the other but we do use the long rod in most every thing.

[grant455gs]

Yeah, lets not get into long rod/short rod discussion, that's not really the intension of this thread..:boring: I'm just trying to find a piston..

Bob, drop me a note if the Wiseco/6.8" deal goes thru..:Brow: Is that still going to include the Hastings rings??:grin:

[Jim Weise]

Bobb Makley said:Just a heads up I should know by the end of the week I think we are going to have Wiseco make a forge tru that will fit the 6.800 rod appplication. At a simalair cost to what we have now.:TU: :cool: . I will let you know as soon as I do.


Ah... now I understand what's going on here..


I was wondering how we could be having a value/cost/performance discussion, with that long chev Rod deal, that takes $800 custom pistons.

But I see the troops are being primed for a product intro.. That's cool..

When I say perf/value/cost there are a lot of considerations that go into that.

Not the least of that is re-sale.. Selling "drop in" crower rods is easy.. as well as is selling SRP/JE conical dish pistons.

And..

I have had several discussions lately with 494 racers, a few who have gone back to the 464 combo.. and their cars have run the same number or faster, with the 30 ci smaller motor. So just make sure your not considering this 470 ci combo to be any
performance advantage. ON paper sure, but in practice.. not so much..

I also wonder if we wouild be having this discussion if Crower would sell that rod to just anyone..


JW

[grant455gs]

Jim Weise said:Ah...

I also wonder if we wouild be having this discussion if Crower would sell that rod to just anyone..


JW

EXACTLY! :Dou:

BTW, MY intensions with this thread were honest and inquisitive in nature, and purely in my own interest . That's ALL FOLKS!
I did not think that this was going to start some kinda competitor war. If that's the kinda information I'm going to get here, then I'm outta here. I'm not in any kind of Buick competition past, present, or future, nor do I want to be. I just wanted some HONEST OPINIONS of where I should go with my next build.

Peace, out.

:gt:

[GS Kubisch]

Jim Weise said:I also wonder if we wouild be having this discussion if Crower would sell that rod to just anyone..

Being a "buyers market"........
When you can eliminate the middle man you decrease your chance for ''headaches'' and stand to save some money.

[Jim Weise]

Grant...

NO problem guy... and getting different points of view, and then deciding for yourself the best course of action to suit your own needs and budget, is the best thing you can do here. What I have said in this thread has nothing to do with selling parts for anyone... it's what I do here, in the shop.. if Finishline was selling the Crower rod.. I would be buying it from Bobb/Jeff. The Eagle rod is a decent piece, and prolly plenty stout for the application, but should not be confused with the Crower piece.. Apples and Oranges there..

Gary,

Yep, that would be great, if Crower really wanted to make parts for us.. but the reality is that Mike had to pester them for a long time, and buy tons of stuff from them (including this rod at 10-20 sets per run) to get them to even consider making it. That rod is the really nice peice that fits between beefed up stockers, and the billet ones, which are overkill for a 700 HP motor.

Guys,

There certainly is plenty going on "behind the scenes" with all the vendors, and I try my best to stay out of that battle, when it comes to parts. I am simply relating the parts and reasoning that goes into my motors here, and you can attach whatever value my opinion has on this stuff, that you feel is warranted.

I'm too busy building this stuff daily, to worry about getting my feelings hurt.

JW

[Bobb Makley]

Jim

To be honest the whole new piston idea came up in a road trip TODAY. Just so that you know this we were talking about this post and I said wouldn't it be nice to have a forge true that would fit this application Jeff said I will give them a call and see if it is fez able. That is as far as it has been looked at. I don't really disagree with you on the cubes inch thing. Our 494 doesn't make any more horse than my 468 but it makes more torque. But the horsepower is at a lower RPM. I truly feel that the big hold up is heads you can only stuff so much air through a set of heads. As far as cost comparisons in my post if you look you will see that I never tried to say it was a bunch cheaper but there are some inherent advantages to the longer rod with the smaller bearing. You cannot deny that bearing speed is one of our big concerns in these engines as far as the cubes I believe I said you could tell your buddy you had 470. Not that you had 470 inches and it was faster than theirs. I do occasionally self promote but before we go there lets make sure that we all look very closely in the mirror. Because when you point a finger there are four more pointing back at you.

To address the cost, a set of custom pistons we generally are less than 700 out the door to the customer. So with what I posted the other day and with that you are at 1450. For rods crank and pistons. Based on what you are promoting you are at 1384. The difference is very little in price and if we do make this Wiseco deal come through it would be around 1265 in the first offering the custom pistons are a better race piston and in the second deal it would be more apple to apples. So I hope that will help clear up any cost issues. I do hope I can bring the Wiseco deal out because I think we try to bring value to what we sell.

By the way Jim I heard a rumor TA was going to Manley rods and would no longer have Crower. Is this true you seem to be in the know of these things? Is that going to change the cost of rods at all since they are not Crowers?

[GS Kubisch]

Luckily for me,.I don't sell parts for a living.
And to relate some of my observations when it comes to building a race motor,My frustration with alot of the vendors would make me seem too "biased".
I too just offer options and wish everyone luck because the people that haven't impressed me,may take good care of you.
Seems like a ''crapshoot" anymore......Too bad when the amount of money gets to where I am.

Grant
Here is your bottom line from my point of view......
"Bolt in" parts save time but being "BUICK specific" they're more expensive than the Chevy equivalent,due to volume/demand.

Sometimes you can save money and frustration if you are willing to make the "more available" parts suit your combo.

Both have pro's and con's.....so weigh them,and good luck getting that car RIGHT!

Seems like it has potential to go deep in the 11's and even touch the 10's with some luck.

I'm done here..

[Jim Weise]

Bobb..

I didn't mean to imply anything... about the piston deal.. just couldn't make the math work.. even at $700. That's what the "Now I understand" meant.

Let's be careful not to attach too much meaning to statements like that.. it starts a lot of silly fights, and bad feelings..

And it should be noted..

I'm not trying to sell anything here, in relation to this thread.

Yes, I am careful at pointing fingers on the self promotion deal.. I hear where your coming from.

Bottom line, regardless of which way Grant goes, I won't see a dime here.

I have no knowledge about any switch in manufactures by TA.. Best to talk to Mike about that.

JW

[Jim Weise]

and...


My biggest concern with the whole bearing speed/oiling issue is adaquate oil pressure and volume supplied to the rods, especially number 3, in these higher HP applications.

And my opinion on that is pretty simple.

Buy a single stage Moroso oil pump, or a dry sump system, and run as much oil pressure as you can. Much more important than splitting hairs with journal sizes.

100 psi cures a lot of ills..

JW

[alec296]

im not much fan of the hyper pistons either .not correct compression advertised unless deck this and that. but my 455 move good with the giant kenne bell cam. thinking of bailing on the 455 and starting over with the 70 block and heads i have.$$$$ has the last decision.:Brow:
will know soon:TU:
andy