One of the "original" STAGE-2 BUICK air cleaner assembly photos/info ...

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

<center><tt>Buick Stage 2 Engine Program</tt></center>

<center><tt>by Dave Knutsen</tt></center>
... I was looking for true "Stage-2 Buick 455" info, and stumbled across this;:3gears:


http://www.buickperformance.com/Stage2.htm

[NeverL8]

anyone have any info on the separate parts? or what applications they came from?

is it all fab. work from scratch to make one of these?

I have two different looks for my stage 2.....the original ram air setup of the Stage 1 with some modifications to account for the 1" shift in the carb position on the B4B....the ultimate sleeper Stage 2....if you want to call a stage 1 a sleeper :shock:

the second of course is the Skylark hood with the Stage 2 scoop...nothing sleeper about it!

I'd like to make a few of these

[Guy Parquette]

hmmm,
I wonder where that exact air pan setup is?:) :)

The bottom has a gm part number tag on it that you can not read the numbers. I don't know if it's off another gm line or if Denny Manner had it made...most likely off from another line, but I never could come up with what it's derived from.

You can tell the top section is a prototype piece just like the hood scoop.

[buick64203]

I think it would a really be an easy item to repro. Looks like a regular heavy duty air cleaner with the snorkel removed. A small patch could be fitted and welded into place to cover it. The rest easy and could probably be made with .080 aluminum. The foam looks similar to a W-30 piece.

I'd like to see some pics of the top from underneath.

[Guy Parquette]

I think it would a really be an easy item to repro. Looks like a regular heavy duty air cleaner with the snorkel removed. A small patch could be fitted and welded into place to cover it. The rest easy and could probably be made with .080 aluminum. The foam looks similar to a W-30 piece.

I'd like to see some pics of the top from underneath.

I have to go in the shop to get some pics of my race car for someone so I'll also take some of the underside for you today

I wonder if there is a way to "lift" the faded numbers off the tag? CSI anyone?

[Guy Parquette]

You know, looking at that picture it looks like the top section is the one with the gm tag...but that's the section that looks more prototypish (thats not a word is it).
pretty stupid of me going off these pics when I have the damn thing 100 feet from my house:Dou:
I'll get off my lazy butt and get out there...sometime today:laugh:

The coffee taste good today:)

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

... FOUND THESE PIC ON MY COMPUTER; 1 of 2 Original Stage-2 Buick 455 blocks (I wish to God there were info on the cam/heads/carb/tranny specs:Do No:).

[buick64203]

... FOUND THESE PIC ON MY COMPUTER; 1 of 2 Original Stage-2 Buick 455 blocks (I wish to God there were info on the cam/heads/carb/tranny specs:Do No:).


Ive touched that block! :bglasses:

[buick64203]

If you can Guy, can you take a tape measure to that top piece and get some dimensions? :Brow:

[Guy Parquette]

... FOUND THESE PIC ON MY COMPUTER; 1 of 2 Original Stage-2 Buick 455 blocks (I wish to God there were info on the cam/heads/carb/tranny specs:Do No:).

There were more than two made, maybe up to six.

I do know where another block is...and it is one that came out of the Kenne-Bell camp:Brow:

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

Ive touched that block! :bglasses:
" ... ROCK-ON!!! YOU-THE-MAN!" COOLNESS!!!

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

... just scanned this page/article from my "Buick Book" I started in 1997:TU:. Hope you guys enjoy this as much as I "still" do:3gears:.

"BUCKLE-UP!"

[Guy Parquette]

If you can Guy, can you take a tape measure to that top piece and get some dimensions? :Brow:

Will do Jason.

This is one of the parts of this car I really never investigated anything about, yet. So this tread intrigues me to do so. Thanks:TU:

Plus I never would have thought I would be posting in the V8 powered regal section. hehe

Oh btw, this airpan is not restored...on purpose. It is a factory paint all original...survivor. Two reasons I did this.
One, it's in great paint shape, and I wanted show everoney how the factory paint sheen was and how they did it.
Two, I can honestly say it is the only one in the World that is an original nonrestored, and maybe it would help me to learn how it was made and/or where it came from, as far as which gm model line and what was prototyped.

Jason, I'll get those measurements.

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

There were more than two made, maybe up to six.

I do know where another block is...and it is one that came out of the Kenne-Bell camp:Brow:
" ... SIX!??? WOW! I had noooo clue. I am dying for real info on the specs for those "MONSTERS!!!" Thanks.

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

I just located this bit of Stage-2 Buick 455 info here:TU::

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Gran_Sport


Gran Sport 455

The 400 was replaced for 1970 with the 455 cu in (7 l) Buick V8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V8_engine#455), used in the GS 455. The base model V8 produced 350 hp (260 kW) and 510 ft·lbs (690 N·m) at 2800 rpm. In the optional Stage1 trim it produced 360 hp (371 kW) and 510 ft·lbs (691 Nm) at a low 2800 rpm. As with all American engines produced prior to the 1972 model year, these were SAE gross ratings, which are generally significantly higher than SAE net ratings, which are indicative of what actual production engines produce in their "as installed" condition (with all engine accessories and full exhaust system in place). Magazines from the period obtained trap speeds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_racing) in the 105 mph (169 km/h) range for the 1970 test cars provided to the press, leading some to suggest the engine was truly "under-rated", relative to what was typical for the time. Road tests of this engine suggested the engine produced in at least 420 hp (310 kW). Many magazine road test editors commented on the unbelievable torque this engine produced and its ability to easily spin the tires.
The Stage 1 engine option consisted of a more aggressive camshaft,higher compression, unique cylinder heads, unique 4 barrel carburetor, more aggressive ignition timing,5/8 inch oil pickup tube and a higher numerical final drive. The engine was available with either a firmer shifting Turbohydromatic 400 and a standard 3.42:1 limited slip rear differential. A 3.64:1 rear ratio was standard when delivered with a Stage 1 without air conditioning.
The relatively unknown, very expensive, and very rare, 1970 GS 455 Stage 1 drew a great amount of attention and controversy in the muscle-car world when in the 1980s it was listed as faster than any of the Chrysler Hemi cars in the original "50 fastest muscle cars" list. This Hemi vs. Stage 1 controversy has prompted several contests to settle the issue; it remains an unsettled matter and has been a great boon to car magazine sales over the years.
There was also a rare Stage 2 option produced. This was a dealer-installed package (what was known as a "dealer option"), first offered in 1969. It included a cam, headers, intake manifold, high compression forged pistons, hollow pushrods, and some calibration changes to the ignition and carburetor. If the car was ordered with the Stage 2 package, the parts were shipped in the trunk of the car. In 1970(?) the Stage 2 package included special D- Port exhaust port Stage 2 heads, matching Kustom brand headers, a radical cam, high compression forged pistons, Edelbrock B4B aluminum intake, Holley carburetor, and other equipment for racing. Few Stage 2s were ever used on the street and Buick only ever factory assembled 15 Stage 2 test units. One of which was a factory GSX test mule with 4 speed manual transmission used for speed testing. That GSX test mule was equipped with 4.78 gearing and was driven on the streets and tracks on the west coast. The Stage 2 package's existence was not made public until 1972 when the Stage 2 parts could be ordered in any combination. There is little documentation about the 12 Stage 2 cars that were sold. One was campaigned by Kenne-Bell/Reynolds Buick and the other was known as the Jones-Benisek car. The Jones/Benisek car is known to have been delivered as a Stage 1 car with all the Stage 2 components in the trunk in GM boxes.
Output and sales for the assembly-line cars were down after 1970 largely due to reduced engine compression ratios and a change from gross to net horsepower ratings. In later years, air quality regulations further limited the power in part due to the addition of catalytic converters and single exhaust pipes. However, Stage 2 parts were available over the Buick parts counter although the Stage 2 heads were discontinued after about 75 sets were produced. The discontinuation was due to porosity problems with castings.The discontinuation of the Stage 2 also was due to the ever tightening emission standards which resulted in lower performance.

[Guy Parquette]

A whole lot of that information is very incorrect as far as the stage2 info...
Right down to the "D" shaped port. Buick NEVER made a "D" shaped port stage2 head.
A lot of new true information has been unearthed since that article...

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

A whole lot of that information is very incorrect as far as the stage2 info...
Right down to the "D" shaped port. Buick NEVER made a "D" shaped port stage2 head.
A lot of new true information has been unearthed since that article...
... I know; all Stage-2 heads have "oval" ports ... as well as the Stage-2 headers.

[NeverL8]

mine are round! +/- 2" I'd measure, but my coffee is tasting good as well!

I have seen many sets that were filled by brazing brass into the Block to 'optimize' flow...thus making them more of an Oval/D shape.

I'd love to make some of these...any info or close-up pic's would be awesome....

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

... I got this pic from here;

http://www.buickperformance.com/455hdcompare.htm

Thanks for additional/correct info:TU:.

[Guy Parquette]

Here is how it looks on the stage2 engine.
Kenne-Bell valve covers with there breathers.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2005.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2006.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2007.jpg

The hood seal

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2024.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2023.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Here are some pictures off the car and apart

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2008.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2009.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2010.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2011.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2012.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Jason,
Here are your measurements

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2015.jpg

I.D.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2016.jpg

O.D.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2017.jpg

Underside of the top

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2019.jpg

Underside of the bottom

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2013-1.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Some more, with close up of GM tag.
No stamping numbers found anywhere:Do No:

Original springs which were exactly like what was used on Tom Rix's Stg2 setup (hood came from of car #4085)

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2021.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2019-1.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2020.jpg

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee192/POPSTAGE2/airpanstg2022.jpg

[Guy Parquette]

Notice on the top section the outside diameter isn't completely round,
with one part of it "squared" off for whatever reason?:Do No:

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

GUY ... GOOD-STUFF!!! Nice and clear pics ... and that motor looks devastating!!!:TU:The Offenhauser intake is a classic. I LOVE IT!!! YOU-THE-MAN!:3gears::TU:

[Heavy D]

Plus I never would have thought I would be posting in the V8 powered regal section. hehe


Welcome!:TU: We might not be a classic yet, but we love horsepower! :TU:

[DaWildcat]

GUY ... GOOD-STUFF!!! Nice and clear pics ... and that motor looks devastating!!!:TU:The Offenhauser intake is a classic. I LOVE IT!!! YOU-THE-MAN!:3gears::TU:

It's an Edelbrock B4B intake. Offenhauser didn't make a dual plane for the big block buick. Maybe you're mistaking the Offenhauser valve cover breathers.

Devon

[skierkaj]

Notice on the top section the outside diameter isn't completely round,
with one part of it "squared" off for whatever reason?:Do No:

Some klutz drop it or something? :laugh:

I'd like to know if the other known one looks like that too.


And wow, that wiki page has so many errors it's ridiculous!

"About 15 prototypes"?! I'd like to know where all the others went!

[Guy Parquette]

Yes, the other one on the red car is identical...which btw the whole hood assembly including the air pan came from car #4085...the engineering Stg2 GSX.

[NeverL8]

I love the look of the Offy breathers! that engine is awesome Guy!

I'm going to see if I can fabricate one to use with my stage 2 hood setup....

built to run - manual brakes, no air filter....I love the little things you notice while staring at the photo's

Incredible car Guy! thanks for the photo's

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

... ANY TRUE STAGE-2 CAM SPECS INFO ... ANYONE???:confused:

[STAGE-2 TORQUE]

It's an Edelbrock B4B intake. Offenhauser didn't make a dual plane for the big block buick. Maybe you're mistaking the Offenhauser valve cover breathers.

Devon
... AIIIIGHT! THANKS VERY MUCH.

[Guy Parquette]

Welcome!:TU: We might not be a classic yet, but we love horsepower! :TU:

I was This close >| |< to building one with a 455 back in the eighties:TU:

[Guy Parquette]

... ANY TRUE STAGE-2 CAM SPECS INFO ... ANYONE???:confused:

Lots of great Stage2 info here.
vvv vvv vvv vvv vvv vvv vvv
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=88540

[buick64203]

Im looking at these pictures, it dawned on me what the Buick engineers might of used for that top section. It looks remarkably like just the outer section of a 70-72 442 ram air air cleaner assy.

[Goodwrench04963]

Maybe the lower assembly is from a 69 z-28 camaro with cowl induction?

[Guy Parquette]

Im looking at these pictures, it dawned on me what the Buick engineers might of used for that top section. It looks remarkably like just the outer section of a 70-72 442 ram air air cleaner assy.


Maybe the lower assembly is from a 69 z-28 camaro with cowl induction?


If you guys can figure it out it would be great! I tried from pictures on the net and can't seem to come up with anything.
I looked at the 442 and it's not the same...I looked at the Z28's and not the same.
Now this was some time ago and it may have been the bottom that I was looking at...so maybe the top would be it.

Any pics?

[SportWagonGS]

I think I know what the bottom is from, think it's the 68 GS400 aircleaner, the same one that would be on the 68-69 Riviera GS....like the one on mine!

[buick64203]

What part number air cleaner would that base fit? Im curious if it fits the CA327 or the larger CA136.

[SportWagonGS]

What part number air cleaner would that base fit? Im curious if it fits the CA327 or the larger CA136.

Jason,
the one I'm referring to would take the 212CW (or 279C heavy duty)

[Stage2]

The base looks to be a modified '68 Buick unit. It's kind of hard in the picturers to tell how the hole for the snorkel was covered over. The top, or seal portion is a '69 Camaro ZL2 air cleaner flange. Turns out the be the part I have been using on my car for years!

http://www.yearone.com/images/parts/ru6_ru9/ru673.jpg

[flynbuick]

:The Offenhauser intake is a classic. I LOVE IT!!! YOU-THE-MAN!:3gears::TU:

Edelbrock B4B intake

[Guy Parquette]

The base looks to be a modified '68 Buick unit. It's kind of hard in the picturers to tell how the hole for the snorkel was covered over. The top, or seal portion is a '69 Camaro ZL2 air cleaner flange. Turns out the be the part I have been using on my car for years!

http://www.yearone.com/images/parts/ru6_ru9/ru673.jpg

The base shows no modification to it at all. no welding, no covering up the snorkle holes.
ZL2 would be what? I'll have to look at one...Thanks! oh and the foam is another story. This foam has a green tint to it and is cut from a machine...like they would in production.

[Stage2]

The ring you have looks identical to the one I picked up years ago that was from a '69 Camaro with the cowl induction hood. It has the same narrow spot as yours. I bought mine years ago at a swap meet and recognised it as soon as I saw the pictures of yours.

[buick64203]

Is that flange metal or plastic? I cant tell from the pics.

Guy- What is holding that ring to the underside of the hood? I dont see any screws. And it that plastic or metal?

[Guy Parquette]

Is that flange metal or plastic? I cant tell from the pics.

Guy- What is holding that ring to the underside of the hood? I dont see any screws. And it that plastic or metal?

What flange do you mean? I can tell you there are no plastic parts.

The ring is metal and it's held on by a glue or sealer...looks like the same stuff that a hood and hood frame would use.

Stage2- that ring looks like it! Can you come up with close ups? I would loke to confirm something.

[SportWagonGS]

The base shows no modification to it at all. no welding, no covering up the snorkle holes.
ZL2 would be what? I'll have to look at one...Thanks! oh and the foam is another story. This foam has a green tint to it and is cut from a machine...like they would in production.


I wonder if they pulled the bases from assembly before they were finished?

[Guy Parquette]

I wonder if they pulled the bases from assembly before they were finished?

Maybe.

I would like to know if the base is derived from a Holley style carb or a Rochester Q-jet...anyone?

[buick64203]

What flange do you mean? I can tell you there are no plastic parts.

The ring is metal and it's held on by a glue or sealer...looks like the same stuff that a hood and hood frame would use.

I actually meant the flange the foam sits on.

As far as the underhood plate, I was thinking it might of been made from the same material that the GS hood scoop seal plates were made from. That type of plastic. Interesting that its made of metal and even more interesting that that its just stuck on.

Seems like it would be fairly easy to replicate the setup. I would imagine you could just remove the snorkel from a conventional air cleaner and carefully weld in a block off plate.

[Guy Parquette]

Oh, yeah that flange is steel.
Now that we know the top flange is from a 69 ZL2, I would think it would be an easy deal to replicate also. Still don't know what the bottom is from but you probably could use anything close that would work. I always thought the top flange would be the tricky part because it does look prototypish.
One note. You can't see it in the pictures and even hard too get your head in there to see but the under side of the hood seal plate is made to conform to the under side (frame) of the hood.
But if you were to replicate this setup its so hard to see it I would just make that part out of flat .060 plate and call it good.

[Stage2]

Guy, I'll dig mine out when I get a chance and send you some pictures of it. The seal plate under the hood of my car was copied from the one that was on the Kenne-Bell (your) car at some point.

[Guy Parquette]

good! and yes on the one Oliver had

[Stage2]

good! and yes on the one Oliver had

So it is in your possession now I take it? :TU: