The buildup of 3GS

[DrBuick]

I've had this car since 1984. It's a '70 GS 350. I bought it for $450. I had to drag it home. I rebuilt most of it and drove it as a daily driver until 1994 when I bought the '87TR. Around 2003 my son expressed interest in it so we rebuilt it with a 2.73 posi and smaller tires but global west suspension parts and a milder 350. He only got 16 mpg on that motor probably because I used the hoged out race heads on it. I got him a Saturn (40 mpg) and he gave the car back to me. For 36 years I've built "Pro Touring" type cars starting with my '70 Skylark street car, which turned into a C Prepared Solo II car, then a Time Trial/Road race car. Back then I had to make many of my own parts like swaybars, homemade accusump oil systems, etc. Now, many companies make great parts for A bodies.
I started out thinking I was only going to pull the iron headed Stage 1 462/2004R combo out of my '78 F150 and put it in the GS with some rear disk brakes. It's gotten way out of hand. I put on the rear disks from TSM mfg.com but my custom 15x10 Spyder Motor Wheels wouldn't fit over the caliper. I looked for some 15x6 Spyders to make some new 15x10's with less wheel drop but couldn't find any. So, here we go. I worked with John at Complete Custom Wheel for some 17x10.5 and 17x12.5 wheels. He says they are the old Kenesis 57 style with custom offset. The tires are a new size in front: 295/35-17 with Viper size 335/35-17 in rear. These are Kumho Ecsta XS, gumballs with only a 180 AA A rating and 8/32 tread. On a 12.5 inch wheel the rears are 13.9 inches in section width. I knew they would touch the frame rail if the outer was to fit inside a trimmed fender lip and that would require mini tubs and notching the frame! Here we go. If I have 17's up front then I might as well put on 13" rotors. So I ordered the Baer Pro+ system with 6 pistons and two piece light weight rotors. If it has that much rubber to corner and that much stopping power then I might as well pull those TA stage 2SE heads out of the attic I was saving for the race motor and bump up the compression. Here we go! Then I saw the FAST EZ EFI system in the For Sale section and praise God I was the first to reply. So it seems I have a great Holley 870 I need to sell.
I towed it to a friends shop to pull the body off to notch the frame and do the mini tubs. Well if I have the body off I might as well sand blast it and powder coat it. Here we go! And I can't put the ugly brake lines back on so lets get some SS ones from Inline Tube. Man this is getting expensive.
My goal is to drive it to Bowling Green in May, Lord willing.
Here's a few picts.

[DrBuick]

Engine pictures of degreeing the cam and cam bumper construction from a nylon screw from Home Depot. Also the valve reliefs I cut in the pistons. Also the oil pan baffle I made and the oil line mod from Mike Phillips.

[ubushaus]

WOW! Just WOW!

[DrBuick]

These show setting the bump steer with the Baer Trackers and a laser gun site. also the frame notches with the rear and tires on.

[scott kerns]

drooling a little!:cool:

[Racerx88]

Paul, all I can say is WOW! :shock: :shock:

[DrBuick]

Thanks guys, part of this is peer pressure from my good friends "Concours" James Weinman and his brother who only lives a mile from me "Clone-Cours" Rusty because he's trying to duplicate a Concours car. They're calling me "Race-Cours".

[Racerx88]

Thanks guys, part of this is peer pressure from my good friends "Concours" James Weinman and his brother who only lives a mile from me "Clone-Cours" Rusty because he's trying to duplicate a Concours car. They're calling me "Race-Cours".

Well if that's the case, I guess I'll have to refer to my car as "Cours-Lite" when its done!

[pro tour gsx]

thats prety sick

[davisca455]

335s? That makes my 305s look like pizza cutters. I also worked with John at CCW, excellent customer service and a great product. You are famous at CCW, John told me you were his other Buick customer. Way to go Paul!

[DrBuick]

John is good at pushing a person into getting the most rubber possible under a car. We used 17x12.5 on all four corners of the Skylark. It required no front inner fenders and a slight outer fender trim.
We put 17x10's in front of the TR with 11's in back. That's with GNX flares.

[Freakazoid]

Thats Cool, Like how you narrowed the frame for the rear tires. Its that little bit extra thats always needed. How will you be doing the inner rear wheel well ?

[Jim Weise]

Heads, intake and Valve covers look familiar... :Brow:


Looks great Paul, good luck with it.

JW

[DrBuick]

Richard,
I bought inner wheel tubs from The Parts Place. That's the easy part. The measuring and cutting and welding and grinding the welds is the hard part.

Jim,
Yes the polishing job you did turned out very nice. Thanks

[online170]

You have good taste.

Its everything im trying to accomplish in an A-body :).

You should post a lil history about yourself (with pictures ofcourse) of your past projects.

[punk55]

Your project looks KILLER! I remember reading in the GSxtra about your 350 road race car. Excellent Work.

[1972 Stage 1]

Thanks guys, part of this is peer pressure from my good friends "Concours" James Weinman and his brother who only lives a mile from me "Clone-Cours" Rusty because he's trying to duplicate a Concours car. They're calling me "Race-Cours".
:bla:

[scott kerns]

Hey any updates on the project? What cam did you end up using?

Scott

[1972 Stage 1]

I have known Paul for about 30 years, and his cars/truck are all fast and are all BUICK powered! His 70 Skylark road race car only had a 350 in it at the time, but was the King of the Hill and would put Vettes, Cobras, and Mustangs back on the trailer - with a Big Old Buick??? :Do No:

3GS is looking very, very good, Paul. I just may have to go build me a Resto Mod Buick now! :3gears:

[RapidRick]

:TU: :beer

[DrBuick]

Scott,
It's a fairly mild hydraulic cam. I had TA grind it for me. We used the 232 intake lobe with .515 lift (1.6 rockers) from their 310 grind. And the 238 exhaust lobe with .525 lift from their 290H grind. I asked for a tight 108 lobe center but it actually came in at 109. I installed it at 104 degrees for 5 deg. advanced. I understand Mike has available cores for hydraulic rollers now! If I don't like the way this runs I might consider going that route. That should eliminate wiped lobes although I wiped lobes on a cheap roller cam I put in my TR about 12 years ago. Mike offers two different materials for these new cams. I don't know which one is better.

James,
Go for it. I think they're a lot more fun than something that's too valuable to hammer on. That one you showed me would be a great starting point.

[DrBuick]

Some updated pictures. Had the rear end powder coated along with the springs which are out of a Skylark station wagon, then heated and shortened. The new Global West anti squat brackets are shown which move the instant center up and back for more traction off the line. They required welding. The 1" swaybar I made about 30 years ago but recently had the ends squeezed narrow and drilled with 3 holes for 5 different adjustment combinations. The endlinks are really neat from HR parts and stuff, then shortened to about half their original length. Rear disks are from TSM MFG, 11 1/4" dia., calipers from '79 -'85 Riviera. Hawk HPS pads. The axles are new from Moser (quick service) with 1/2" screw in studs. I painted them so they don't rust. I'm going to try and machine the CCW wheel center caps down and insert some silver trishield Buick emblems.

[tlivingd]

Paul, your ride is SICK! keep it up.

[freak6264]

That car is so sick. I just passed out on my keyboard. Fat tires are sexy. Especially when it's done right.

[mjkinga]

Very nice

[sailbrd]

I think I hate you. What an outstanding project. :3gears:

[Regal1]

Paul, all I can say is WOW! :shock: :shock:

X2 Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

[dl7265]

I just may have to go build me a Resto Mod Buick now! :3gears: Well that didn't take long :Dou:
Paul, sorry I'm going to miss this mean machine at the Weinman Nationals next week,


DL

[DrBuick]

Here's an update. The firewall and underbody was soda blasted and coated with Lizard Skin ceramic heat barrier, then a type of bed liner material. Shown on the rotisserie I had to buy because most businesses in San Antonio are too rinky dink to invest in themselves. My crude and dangerous method of lowering the body onto the frame. The cool fuel pickup I bought from ROBBMC perf prod. with -8 AN fittings. The master cylinder I bought from Matt's Classic Bowties and the neat billet battery tray from one of my favorite builders, Schwartz performance. The "3" is from a Mazda 3, one of the few ricer parts on the car. The trunk is covered in Dynamat, and my crappy carpeting job. Next time I'll get a pro to do this part!:Dou: Last is the before and after center caps with a silver trishield machined down to fit in a machined down cap.

My son was nearly killed on Friday afternoon while mowing weeds with my Dad's tractor and 6' mower attachment at the ranch 40 miles north of San Antonio. He hit some rocks and thought a rock hit him in the back. He lost his breath and almost passed out but managed to drive the tractor back to the ranch house and thank God his cell phone made it through to a friend who got him to the hospital. X-rays showed a 3.5 inch galvanized wire entered next to his shoulder blade and went through his lung collapsing it and stopping just short of exiting near the collar bone. They sucked the air out of the plural cavity to reinflate his lung and sent him to BAMC in SA for surgery. He's recovering nicely. Praise God it missed all arteries and veins and his heart!
This most important situation has caused me to get behind on the car. I fired it up, sounds fine, and broke it in and added the inner valve springs. Not sure if I'll make the Dallas festivities.

[DrBuick]

The center caps.

[breakinbuick11]

Your project is sooo cool.

Glad to hear your son is ok, thats a freak accident.
Louie

[1972 Stage 1]

Paul,

You are out of control, and I love it! You will be my consultant in a year or two when I build my Stage 2 resto mod GSX clone. I can't imagine what you have in this car, but my motto is build it the way you want it, and it looks like you have done that. Looks great, and I heard it sounds even better!

I am so glad Robert is doing well. He's a great guy, and we will continue to pray for a speedy recovery. No sweat if you can't make it up here this weekend. I'll be down soon and make an appointment to stop by and see 3GS. :TU:

[DrBuick]

Thanks for all the kind words, guys. Some of you are really funny.

I finally got it running on Saturday. Broke it in and added the inner springs but forgot to change the 3000 rpm rev limit. I was thinking the FAST system is a slow learner, then I checked the rev limit setting.:Dou: . I put it on 5500 and now it runs great! I'll probably raise the limit later. I set the timing at 32deg total.

I had a problem with the left rear tire rubbing after I filled up with premium. I loosened all the body bushings and centered the body over the rear tires and that helped some. I'm running the BMR 2" drop rear springs and it looks cool but I may need to go with the 1" drop Hotchkis or the collapsed Station wagon springs.

The front was too high and so I cut 1/2 coil from the Global West small block springs. I think it's still too high so I may cut some more off. It would sure be nice to have coil over shocks or an AirRide setup to set ride height.

The brakes suck so far. I have to stand on them to get it to slow down. I don't know what's supposed to seal between the dual diaphragm brake booster and the master cylinder, probably a rubber seal. I put some black silicone around there but I may still have a vacuum leak. Anybody know where to get a rubber seal? I'm reading about the Hydroboost systems but I don't want too easy of a pedal. I think too easy of a pedal is too easy to lockup the tires in a panic type stop. Anybody have experience with a Hydroboost?

I can't wait to get it all sorted out. It sounds fine and makes a lot more power than anything I have ever driven. I took it to a car show on Saturday at my church and it won best of show even though it's not finished yet.

[nelson20]

Got any pics from the show??

[DrBuick]

No, I left my new camera at home. When I get the ride height set and the front air dam mounted I'll post some pictures.

[pro tour gsx]

Thanks for all the kind words, guys. Some of you are really funny.

I finally got it running on Saturday. Broke it in and added the inner springs but forgot to change the 3000 rpm rev limit. I was thinking the FAST system is a slow learner, then I checked the rev limit setting.:Dou: . I put it on 5500 and now it runs great! I'll probably raise the limit later. I set the timing at 32deg total.

I had a problem with the left rear tire rubbing after I filled up with premium. I loosened all the body bushings and centered the body over the rear tires and that helped some. I'm running the BMR 2" drop rear springs and it looks cool but I may need to go with the 1" drop Hotchkis or the collapsed Station wagon springs.

The front was too high and so I cut 1/2 coil from the Global West small block springs. I think it's still too high so I may cut some more off. It would sure be nice to have coil over shocks or an AirRide setup to set ride height.

The brakes suck so far. I have to stand on them to get it to slow down. I don't know what's supposed to seal between the dual diaphragm brake booster and the master cylinder, probably a rubber seal. I put some black silicone around there but I may still have a vacuum leak. Anybody know where to get a rubber seal? I'm reading about the Hydroboost systems but I don't want too easy of a pedal. I think too easy of a pedal is too easy to lockup the tires in a panic type stop. Anybody have experience with a Hydroboost?

I can't wait to get it all sorted out. It sounds fine and makes a lot more power than anything I have ever driven. I took it to a car show on Saturday at my church and it won best of show even though it's not finished yet.

I dont think there is vacuum leaking between the booster and master you may just have the wrong bore master cyl for you calipers I went thru many master cyls when i fist put baer brakes on mine

[DrBuick]

OK, tell me more. Which Baer brake system do you have and which bore diameter master cylinder did you end up with? Also which brake booster do you have?

[pro tour gsx]

On my car I have a stock repo booster and a 1 inch bore willwood master and it works pretty good i still think it could be better, but I have the track brakes so there are different pistons in the caliper thus needing a different master than you. I guess the first thing is to ckeck that the booster is getting proper vac.

[DrBuick]

I finally got the rear brakes working. It seems the distribution block I bought from Matts Classic Bowties has a valve inside that closes if the brakes are not vacuum bled first. It's under the electric switch and is fairly easy to reset to the forward position with an awl.
I trimmed another half coil from the front springs, for a total of one coil, and a drop of 2 and 1/4 inches. They are the Global West small block springs. The 3" round tubes and shorty header extensions hang down so low I was scraping them even backing out of my driveway.
I bought a set of 3" oval tubes and mufflers from Spintech and had my friend Caleb, a master welder and fabricator, put them on. He did a great job! The lowest thing underneath now is the stock trans pan!
I hate the sound of these mufflers! Others may love the sound but they are way too loud for me. I don't understand how a straight through Dynomax is much quieter than these Spintechs and they have 8 spin chambers.
I took it to Henderson Performance to baseline the power on their chassis dyno which is real conservative ( it recorded 27% humidity which is way off. South Texas is at least 75% humidity in the summer ). With the torque converter unlocked it made 428 HP and 448 TQ. Cory says this equates to about 570 HP and 600 TQ at the engine. I'll retest to see what difference the exhaust change made.
The first picture is Caleb making an X pipe from two oval 90's.
Then is the before picture of the exhaust from the side.

[DrBuick]

More picts. We're still working on the stereo and alarm systems and the interior. I put a big aluminum radiator in with twin Spal 14" fans from Alumitech. And I bought a Hydroboost system from CPP and they recommended a 1&1/8" bore master cylinder. I have lots of brake assist now but the pedal feels hard at first and then kind of goes soft before feeling firm again. Our new Buick Enclave feels the same way.

[breakinbuick11]

Im jealous and in love. The car is beautiful.

[1972 Stage 1]

Looks great Paul. I'll be down in a month or so and hope to see/take a ride in this beast! :TU:

[DrBuick]

Thanks guys. At this point it's a nice looking 50 ft car. Just don't get too close to the paint and body work!

[staged67gspwr]

:beers2: :beers2: The car is beautiful

[KFD]

Hey Dr. Buick. She is a beauty! Did you fabricate any sort of brackets to make the Riviera Calipers fit on the car?
KFD

[DrBuick]

No, go to www.tsmmfg.com. They have a nice kit with brackets and custom rotors.

[Stg1Regal]

Dr Buick

In post# 11 you mentioned putting some big rims under a TR?


We put 17x10's in front of the TR with 11's in back. That's with GNX flares.

Could you provide some more info? Like what tires and rims were used, and back spacing on the rims?

Did you have to modify the TR's body or chassis in any way?

I am the course of aquireing all the parts needed to build my BBB/2004R Buick Regal into a Pro-Touring style car.

Awesome Build-up on your 3GS...... I have that GSXtra article also on your road course built 350 GS.

Impressive build for the period it was built in, with that said, it would probaly still put some of the newer style Pro-Touring builds to shame tho.

Also hows the EZ EFI setup doing now, I was looking into doing that eventualy.

Thanks

[DrBuick]

Chris,
The wheels are made by Complete Custom Wheel. www.ccwheel.com. Talk to John Purner. They have 4.75" backspace. The front inner fender had to be cut back quite a bit. Some black rubber material was used to connect the inner and outer fender. The rear inner and outer fender were cut quite a bit under the GNX flare.

Before the flares I had all four wheels at 17x10 with 275/40's. All I had to do was send two back to John and he changed the outer barrels to achieve 11's for the rear 315/35's. It now has 285/40's in front . Goodyear GS-D3 F1's all around.

The TR is for sale on Ebay with a full description right now. 130412688713

I really like the EZ EFI. I have the fuel pressure maxed out at 60psi to support up to about 625 HP. The computer can set the A/F ratio at idle, cruise, and full power with just a few buttons on the hand held unit. It also turns on the fans at any temp you want and turns the fans on whenever an A/C compressor is on.

[DrBuick]

Update on the brakes. The car stops much better with the rear disks working but with a panic stop the fronts are overpowering the rears and the front tires want to lock. I put the Wilwood proportioning valve from Summit that I had on the rear brake line of this car for 20 years, on the front line. I adjusted it to full "decrease" and the fronts still lock first! But even so with a hard stop everything loose in the car flies forward! I'm hoping that the rear pads will bed in better and the rears will equal the fronts eventually. I have Hawk HPS pads in the rear. I might have to go to a more aggressive pad.

There is a new road course in Austin called Driveway Austin Motorsports. They have driver schools and I plan to take 3GS up there soon, maybe August 28th.

[staged67gspwr]

Paul,before you put the Wilwood proportioning valve in the front did you have it installed at the rear lines?


Thanks

[DrBuick]

Yes, I had it in the rear lines while the distribution block valve was messed up. I thought maybe the proportioning valve was malfunctioning so I removed it. But the rear brakes did nothing until the valve in the dist. block was reset.

[staged67gspwr]

You`re not running the stock proportioning valve with the Wilwood prop.valve at the same time are you?

[DrBuick]

I removed the stock cast iron valve by the master that has the rubber button in the front line and put the Wilwood there.

[staged67gspwr]

I removed the stock cast iron valve by the master that has the rubber button in the front line and put the Wilwood there.

And you were getting front brake lock set up this way?

[DrBuick]

Yes, The 6 piston Baer calipers on the 13" rotors are simply overpowering the rear disks. I will wait for the rear pads to wear in better and then if I need to I'll buy some more aggressive rear pads.

[1972 Stage 1]

I had the pleasure of driving 3GS yesterday, and it is one wicked machine! It accelerates, handles, and stops like a race car. It's a great street car that was built to drive, but is also capable of getting you into a lot of trouble with the boys and girls in blue!
Thanks Paul. :3gears:

[bugdewde]

Haven't been on here in a long time (I used to run a '72 Vega GT with an all alumumin Buick 215 V8).
Found the link to this build-up at the Pro-Touring site.

After seeing this Buick run at the Run To Music City event in Nashville, Tn (autocross on Saturday and road course on Sunday), I had to go talk to this guy and shake his hand. This car is AMAZING!!!!! I took some video and posted on youtube for you Buick guys to enjoy.



Catching up to Schwartz's Temptress on the warm-up laps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SA1Vr9BxSE

Big Buick in the Braking competetion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=085IAhNo4dY

Trying to upload another one from the cell phone that shows one of the fastest cars of the day slowing catching ground on the big ol' Buick..... there just wasn't enough track down the straight, though.

[Nothingface5384]

John is good at pushing a person into getting the most rubber possible under a car. We used 17x12.5 on all four corners of the Skylark. It required no front inner fenders and a slight outer fender trim.
We put 17x10's in front of the TR with 11's in back. That's with GNX flares.

what's the exact specs on backspace/offset for the 12.5 rims rear and 10.5 rims up front

also can you get full lock or does it rub the front swaybar?

did you get rid of the inners fenders and did some trimming for the 10.5 front also or was this just for the 12.5 up front?
as for the rear ..just notch frame and larger trunk tubs? would the notch still be fine for a lark frame?

[DrBuick]

My good friend Shane Maggio has been doing a great job on the trunk and interior, sound system, trunk electric release, power door locks, and hood underside. I can't thank him enough. Check out what he did on the underside of the trunk lid! He really worked hard to get the car ready for the Run To Music City Pro-Touring event in Nashville. Here are some pics. The engine picture shows the ramair setup and the Hydroboost brake booster. I discovered I didn't install the throttle cable correctly and the throttle body was only opening about 75% during the Texas Mile and the dyno runs.:spank:

[DrBuick]

More pics

[staged67gspwr]

Bad ass Paul!!

[breakinbuick11]

Paul this is my favorite car of all-time. I have read this thread 3 or 4 times lol.

[gsx678]

great thread
awesome car
glad to see some people are not hurting to bad along with the economy
:beer

[DrBuick]

Thanks Guys. Brian, I have discovered there is a secret to prosperity.
and I'll be happy to share it with anybody! It's honoring God with my tithes and offerings. My wife and I have been doing this for about 25 years now and I have never had a down year in my dental practice. After business expenses are paid the rest is our profit, right? The first 10% of the profit goes to my local church. Then we pay taxes and all our other expenses. We have many opportunities to make offerings beyond the tithe and this totals about 5% of our income.
God says that a tenth of all our increase (profit) is his. He lets us hold His part to see what we will do with it. If we steal it and spend it on our own greedy and selfish wants then he doesn't send His message, or instructions, or His word to the pastor and no body in the church gets fed spiritually. He also puts a curse on our business or job and everything goes downhill from there. If He wants to channel some money to the church for a special project He wants accomplished is He going to bless me with business knowing I will write a check for 10% on the weekend or is He going to bless someone that doesn't tithe or even go to the church?
Tithing is the only area in the bible where God says to test Him. It's in Malachi chapter 3:10
Try it you'll like it.

[gsx678]

I totally agree.
Thanks for putting that up.