Hood scoop power? How much?

[stage2man]

I've been thinking about a stage2 scoop for the skylark. I was trying to calculate how much power it would be worth.

Anyone know how much this mod alone is worth typically?

I know our motors work off atmospheric pressure to fill the holes. I also know that pressure rise is proportional to velosity squared. Pv = .5 * density or air * v^2

@50 mph that gives me 1.04 psi increase at the scoop.

or about 2.2 inches Hg. This should be a fair amount of boosted horsepower from volumetric eff. improvements.

Any guesses out there.

worth it on a street car?

[grant455gs]

I'm assuming that you're going to fab up an air box to seal to scoop?? I'm not very scientific, but this style of hood properly sealed to the carb has been known to make substantial gains at the track. I see no reason why it shouldn't also benefit a street car:Brow: :TU:

[buick535]

grant455gs said:I'm assuming that you're going to fab up an air box to seal to scoop?? I'm not very scientific, but this style of hood properly sealed to the carb has been known to make substantial gains at the track. I see no reason why it shouldn't also benefit a street car:Brow: :TU:


Awell designed scoop, the stg-2 is fine, and a carb sealed to the hood should be worth at least .2 seconds in the quarter, very possibly .3 Years ago when I did my hood scoop on my 64 lark, I picked up .25 seconds. Jim Burek

[grant455gs]

Does anyone know if there is a fiberglass hood with the Stage 2 scoop ALREADY INSTALLED??!! :confused:

If not, how come?? Any good fiberglass men(NOT ME, THAT'S FOR SURE)??:confused:

[David Butts]

VFN sells one or did but the scoop looks more like a mopar six pack scoop to me.

[RED GS 1]

VFN is making one for me now.1970 bolt on fiberglass hood with a stage 2 scoop installed by them. Pricey at $605.00 plus a $15.00 crate fee and around $125 to $150 to ship. But it is what I need:TU:

[Robsbuick]

buick535 said:Awell designed scoop, the stg-2 is fine, and a carb sealed to the hood should be worth at least .2 seconds in the quarter, very possibly .3 Years ago when I did my hood scoop on my 64 lark, I picked up .25 seconds. Jim Burek



I added a Stage 2 scoop and also picked up a solid .2 once it was sealed to the hood. It is very important to seal it to the hood to get the max performance.:TU:

[RED GS 1]

Hey,Rob is that your name? Could you post a picture or tell me how you made your scoop sealed? I have a few thoughts,but I would like to see,hear others ideas.I have seen some in the past but never really eyeballed them.Now I need to know the tricks!:TU:
Thanx

[grant455gs]

stage2man:

Is that a pic of your 71 in your avitar? Looks almost exactly like my 70!! (same paint and top anyways)

Cool!!:bglasses: Nice lookin car!!:Brow:

:grin:

[Robsbuick]

Hey Kenny,
Yes my name is Rob, and yes I will post some pics of my hood scoop and how it is sealed tomorow.

[Mike Bucy]

buick535 said:Awell designed scoop, the stg-2 is fine, and a carb sealed to the hood should be worth at least .2 seconds in the quarter, very possibly .3 Years ago when I did my hood scoop on my 64 lark, I picked up .25 seconds. Jim Burek

Exactly what we picked up on my 70 GS. :TU:

Don't forget about MPH. 3MPH in the 1/4.

[Robsbuick]

SCOOP PIC 1

[Robsbuick]

SCOOP PIC 2

[Robsbuick]

SCOOP PIC 3

[Robsbuick]

SCOOP PIC 4

[Robsbuick]

SCOOP PIC 4 AGAIN


Hope this helps.

[grant455gs]

Nice lookin' car, Rob. Cheap and easy to do, but very effective.

I curious where you got the foam sealer (part of a kit?) and what sizes are it and the air filter element (14"x 6"?)?

The base is self explanitory (homemade, right?). Great photo. Thanks!

The hole in the hood, did you start out with a little hole and trim to size? Or did you have a more precise way to layout the hole?
(Probably not relavent for me, I REALLY want a fiberglass hood done professionally with Stage 2 scoop molded in.) :Brow:

Have you ever thought about using K&N X-Stream air cleaner lid to provide even more ram air straight into engine? Any thoughts on these?

Thanks for your time and patience!:grin:

:beer

[Robsbuick]

The foam is from a local packaging company that i do business with. I gave them the size i needed and they cut it out for me. As far as the K&N lid goes, my car is not registered at this time, and I only race the car so i don't use the air cleaner at all.
The elements are a 14" x 4" and a 14" x 3" stacked on top of each other.
I found the center of the hood by placing a long stud in the carb and shutting the hood just hard enough to put a dimple in it, then using a string w/ a scribe. i scribed a 15" dia circle from the center point and cut the hole w/ a skill saw.

Hope the info helps. :TU:

[grant455gs]

As far as the K&N lid goes, my car is not registered at this time, and I only race the car so i don't use the air cleaner at all.

You don't use a filter while racing???

Does this improve your ET's?

ps Yes, you did help! Thanks!:beer

[Robsbuick]

in my case, I have found that running w/ no air cleaner is worth on average about .010-.020 in ET.

[grant455gs]

Sorry for all the questions and I hope I'm not kickin' a dead horse...

I wouldn't be suprised if this was just reg open air filters. But being that this is RAM AIR with filter outside the eng. comp., I guess that I thought air filter could only help to straighten out the air:confused:

I assume this change was with paper filters. Have you tried with K&N? (I know, VERY EXPENSIVE!!:moonu: for just a damn filter! Especially for 14" x 4" & 14" x 3" BOTH!:Dou: :Dou:

I'm diggin' for whether or not K&N is worth the money....

[RED GS 1]

Rob,
Thanks for the great pictures:TU: Thats exactly the info I am looking for.I should be recieving my GS hood from VFN with the stage2 scoop installed in a few more weeks,and I'm going to do something very similar with my car:grin:

[buicksstage1]

Kenny,did you you get your hood yet?Is it a bolt on or pin on?I would like to see some close up pic's when you get it If possible. Thanks.....Chris

[stage2man]

actually I used the wrong density for air. Its really .1128 pounds per square inch at 100 mph. Thats close to 1000 ft in altitude change.:Brow: got to be a couple tenths or better.

[RED GS 1]

buicksstage1 said:Kenny,did you you get your hood yet?Is it a bolt on or pin on?I would like to see some close up pic's when you get it If possible. Thanks.....Chris

It should be here any day now,I ordered it June 10th,they said 6-8 weeks.
Rob,what happened to the pictures you posted? They all dissapeared?:Do No: :Do No:

[Robsbuick]

sorry I screwed up. I will re-post them.:Dou:

[72GSX]

I also have a stage2 scoop on mine. I race with a 5" tall paper air cleaner and sealed to the hood. The air cleaner sits so the top of it just misses bottom of scoop so most of the element is in the scoop, I did find that a 4" element slowed it down from no air cleaner. I found on mine it runs the same with the air cleaner as without but I am not near as fast as Robs car. Our local track has mostly gravel pits and it gets real dusty some days so I don't like to run without air cleaner. As far as how much I gained I don't really know because I put on the scoop at the same time I changed some things in the motor so I don't have any before and after with just the scoop. Tom

[RED GS 1]

Tom,
could you post some pictures of how you sealed up your system? Thanx:TU:

[72GSX]

I don't have a digital camera and our cheap scanner died the other day, but what I did was make a aluminum round piece bigger than the hole in the hood and rivited it to the air cleaner base then I took some foam and glued it to the aluminum piece so it contacts the buttom of the hood. Tom

[shiftbyear]

STG.2MAN, A HOOD SCOOP JUTTING OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE HOOD MAY NOT BE THE BEST BET. AS A MATTER OF FACT IT MAY BE THE BEST POSITION TO SUCK AIR OUT OF THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT, BUT HERE IS ONE WAY TO TEST YOUR DESIGN. WHEREVER YOU ARE GETTING YOUR AIR SOURCE, MOUNT ONE END OF A VACUMN LINE IN THAT AREA, NEXT RUN THE VACUMN LINE INTO YOUR DASHBOARD AREA AND CONNECT IT TO A GOOD VACUMN/PRESSURE GAUGE. TEMPORARILY MOUNT THE GAUGE SO YOU CAN SEE IT WHILE YOU ARE DRIVING. IF YOU ARE BUILDING AIR PRESSURE IN THE HOOD SCOOP IT WILL SHOW ON THE GAUGE. I CANNOT TAKE CREDIT FOR THIS IDEA, TOM HOOVER THE FATHER OF THE HEMI USED THIS TECHNIQUE TO SET UP HIS STREET RACE CAR, BY PROBING ALL AREAS OF HIS SILVER BULLET CORONET HE FOUND THE AREA AROUND THE HEADLIGHTS HAD THE HIGHEST PRESSURE. GOOD LUCK

[slimfromnz]

I believe what you are saying shiftbyear. I was under the impression that the position of the scoop that you guys are talking about is not the best position. Headlight area yes. I also know that at the base of the windscreen there is a high pressure build up due to the air flowing over the bonnet(turbulent air) and hitting the screen creates the high pressure. I would tend to mount a reverse scoop similar to the late 60's model camaros. What are you thoughts.

Royden

[D BERRY]

About air cleaners, my car is a tenth faster without one, and it's a 14X4 K&N. The advice about the pressure gauge is good, theres a boundry layer of dead air just above the surface of the hood although any scoop that is sealed to the hood wont draw any underhood/heated air but just outside/cooler air which is more dense meaning more oxygen per cubic foot.

Dave B

[buicksstage1]

Hey Rob,where did your pic's go? Anyone know the best way to cut the hole in the hood without wrecking the nice one year old paint job on my car? Did you get your hood yet Kenny? Chris

[Da Torquester.]

Saw a guy out at the race track here in Seattle who made a ram air box to seal up his stock GS. hood scoops. Mind you it was a bit different than the stock aircleaner set up. He claimed he picked up about two tenths from this. I'm puzzled with this because I've read somewhere that the stock GS. hood scoops are to low and aren't effective. :Do No: Anyone ever get any gains using the stock hood openings with a non stock ram air set up?
John :Do No:

[buicksstage1]

Hi John, is your car brown with welds on it and have you gone to mission with it.Chris

[RED GS 1]

All-Righty, Picked up Hood yesterday at the local [W.Babylon N.Y.] A.B.F.truck terminal. I still need to make a few adjustments,but I think it is a real nice piece. Pictures to follow---

[RED GS 1]

#2

[RED GS 1]

#3

[RED GS 1]

#4

[RED GS 1]

#5

[RED GS 1]

Last one

[buicksstage1]

Hi Kenny, do you have any pictures of the underside of the hood? Thanks Chris

[grant455gs]

Hi Kenny, come on man, one more pic please from the OTHER (engine) side!!

Thanks, looks REAL COOL!!, but kinda spendy, they need to reconsider that price, and they could sell LOTS of these hoods!!

Does it still latch, and use factory springs?? Or did you have to replace springs with lighter ones?? If not, you should..

[grant455gs]

Is that bumper fiberglass also?

[Da Torquester.]

Chris, my car is blue with a black vinal top. That is a chebby :Dou: power Buick you're thinking of. He was here at Pacific Raceways about two weeks ago. He claimed that his ram air box that he made, utilizing his existing GS. hood scoops gave him two tenths. I'm a bit skeptical because I've heard the stock hood scoops are to low and at the wrong angle.
John

[RED GS 1]

grant455gs said:Hi Kenny, come on man, one more pic please from the OTHER (engine) side!!

Thanks, looks REAL COOL!!, but kinda spendy, they need to reconsider that price, and they could sell LOTS of these hoods!!

Does it still latch, and use factory springs?? Or did you have to replace springs with lighter ones?? If not, you should..
Ok,Yes it latches like the stock one,I got some springs from the hardware store today,they don't really work that well. I will be getting the lighter springs,I know the stock ones are a no-no with fiberglass hoods. That's why the stick is holding it up in these pictures.I still have some fine tuning to do on lining it up so it sits more even. I'll be working on that soon.Yes I also just put on the fiberglass bumper about a month and a half ago.Heres some pic's of underneath:TU:

[RED GS 1]

#2

[RED GS 1]

#3

[RED GS 1]

#4

[RED GS 1]

#5

[RED GS 1]

#6

[grant455gs]

Thanks Kenny for taking those pics!:grin:

Honestly, I'm stunned by the looks of your engine bay!:bglasses:

I'm not really sure that I understand the way VFN molded it in in the bottom, tho. Looks kinda weird.. is it heavy? Do you know how much it weighs?

Are you going to seal hood to carb? Or are you going to leave it alone?:Do No:

Time for paint!!:TU: :TU:

:beer

[TuBBeD]

That is one sweet looking hood! I wanted to ask, is there any trimming or sanding that's needed? Also, is there any flexing when moving it around? My friend has a VFN fiberglass hood on his '94 Z28 and it's holding up excellent. I figured with a fiberglass hood there would be some cracking of the paint from it flexing, but none yet. They seem to have the best quality. I'm looking into putting a stage II scoop on, except it will be on a steel hood as I'm too poor :(. lol.

[RED GS 1]

[QUOTE]grant455gs said:Thanks Kenny for taking those pics!:grin:

Honestly, I'm stunned by the looks of your engine bay!:bglasses:

I'm not really sure that I understand the way VFN molded it in in the bottom, tho. Looks kinda weird.. is it heavy? Do you know how much it weighs?

Are you going to seal hood to carb? Or are you going to leave it alone?:Do No:

Time for paint!!:TU: :TU:

:beer [/QUOTE
Well,the hood is very sturdy,it is re-inforced and very smooth to the touch.Their Pin-on hood is a little more flimsy.Pin-on hood without scoop 13LBS. Bolt-on hood with installed scoop 30Lbs.Stock hood wieght was around 70 LBS.
They advise to let it Cure for at least 30 days before painting.But because of the way they smooth and primer it,it's a lot less work when you do paint it. Now the Fiberglass bumper I got from W&S racing came very RAW! It needed a lot of work before painting.The bumper was $140.00 but it cost me $200.00 to have it finished and painted.Right now I'm leaving the hood as is, till this winter when I'll have it painted to match the car:TU: I will be sealing it to the carb,I've already added a 1" spacer and I'll be getting a 6or7" K&N filter element for the carb.This whole thing started after I switched my B4B for the SP1 intake and hood clearence became a problem:Smarty:

[grant455gs]

This whole thing started after I switched my B4B for the SP1 intake and hood clearence became a problem

I completely understand! I had to use a very low drop-base just to get a 3'' filter under the hood! :Dou:

THANKS for the answers, and the pics!:TU:

Definetely get the right hood springs ASAP, and even with those take MUCH care opening and closing. I'd make sure to keep the latch and hinges WELL lubricated also, just so there's no binding! :Smarty:

[RED GS 1]

Grant,
Thanks for the friendly advise,very good points you bring up and well taken. I was also informed to reinforce the latch area as the fiberglass will deteriate after a lot of opening and closing in that area. I will be very careful with it,after all it was a pretty expensive piece and I want it to last a very long time:Smarty:

[Driver2]

:jd: :eek2: That looks AWESOME, Kenny!:bglasses: I hadn't actually seen the Stage 2 FIBERGLASSED ON to the hood, but I like it a lot better than the "bolt on hoodscoop" on the Steel hood.

Looks like I have my next ('70 GS) project in progress, by getting a Hood like THAT!:bglasses: :TU:

[72GSX]

Hi Kenny, I was looking at your valve covers and was wondering what they are? Maybe its just the picture but they look to me to be taller than Buick covers. Tom

[buicksstage1]

HEY ROBSBUICK,I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE PIC'S OF YOUR HOOD. THANKS......CHRIS

[RED GS 1]

72GSX said:Hi Kenny, I was looking at your valve covers and was wondering what they are? Maybe its just the picture but they look to me to be taller than Buick covers. Tom
It must be the picture.Valve covers are the stock '70 Stage 1.

[72GSX]

OK, thanks, must be eye sight, getting old you know, :laugh: Tom

[Robsbuick]

scoop pics

[Robsbuick]

scoop pics 2

[72GSX]

Looks alot like how I did mine. I even have a red manifold too. :beer Tom

[Bob Lindquist]

hi rob, talked to you a few weeks back about buying a couple of your foam seals for my scoop project. any news yet? still very interested, thanks again, bob

[RED GS 1]

Rob,
I sent you a PM. To anyone else following this thread,my one mistake was having VFN make the cut-out on the hood the same dimension as the stage 2 scoop. Now I have no way of using a scoop plug or cover if I get caught in the rain,it is a street car and I drive it to the track 90 miles each way.So now I have to fabricate a 2" piece under the hood at the front of the scoop for a Lip to have some kind of a base for a plug. I also had them install the scoop 12" from the rear of the hood on center based on what other members qouted thier measurments on.I would have been better off with it being mounted 10 1/2" from the rear as it does have a slant in the rear end and doesn't get to the 4"s till about a inch and a half up from the rear.As it sits now I have a good 3"s from the filter to the front of the scoop.Needless to say I have a little fabricating to do.It will all come together eventually but I could have saved myself some time and trouble if I had known about these problems before hand. I'm just stating all these things to try to save other members from these mistakes,I realize everybodys application could be different i"m just stating what I've learned so far.If anyone has any questions don't hesitate to ask I'm more then glad to offer my assistance,that's why we're all here anyway!:TU:

[Robsbuick]

Sorry Bob, been on vacation. I will try to get some next week.
I will keep you posted.

Rob

[GS Kubisch]

Hey Guys......
In my findings the scoop itself won't show much performance gain w/o sealing it to the hood.
I made my airpan out of LEXAN.It looks much cleaner as I mounted the foam to the underside of the hood.This serves another purpose along with sealing,I can toss the hood on the roof of my car w/o damage.
I also used a STUBSTACK on the top of the carb to further smooth the airflow.
I will try to post some pics when I get a chance,I don't think I have any good ones on my 'puter.
I should market the "Stage 2 Hoodscoop" airpan I have,It even has 4 holes down each side to hold your spark plugs an is niecly cut out with a router as opposed to a jigsaw.

BTW
It was 1 MPH at the 1/8 th and 1.5 MPH at the 1/4 mile That I picked up.
That shows about 10-15 HP:Do No:

[GS Kubisch]

Here is what I have for a pic now.......Looks like there is nothing there,Look close.

[buicksstage1]

Gary, those valve covers are the coolest looking i've seen yet..... Chris

[72GSX]

Hi Gary, What distributor and ignition are you running if I may ask.:beer Tom

[GS Kubisch]

I chose those valve covers for the largest inside dimension to clear the rocker system I have.
www.uniquealuminumproducts.com

Steve Reynolds(A Buick racer) also makes some nice ones.

The distributor is a Mallory Unilite and I use a HYFIRE 4 ignition box.
I painted the Mallory cap black,culdn't stand it being the only red item under the hood.

[stage2man]

cool link on the subject....

http://www.vararam.com/reality_of_ram_air01.html

[RED GS 1]

WOW! What an article,my head is spinning,way to advanced for my simple brain.
All I really got out of it is,A good aftermarket scoop,big enough to grab air and flow it to a "sealed intake Will make more power!:Smarty:

[Robsbuick]

Ken,
Here is a couple more pics. There are 2 already posted. I will be at E-town if you want to get a up close look.

Rob:beer

[Robsbuick]

pic 2

[RED GS 1]

Rob,
Thanks for posting those pic's.
I will be at E-town as usual and will be lookin for your car.
I only have this weekend to get my s#@t together and try to seal my carb to the hood,so far the only type of sealent I could find was some dense foam rubber from a reupholstery shop.
I'll be making up some kind of system tomorrow and Sunday,hopefully I won't get laughed at when I show up!
But I am Glad you'll be there to give me some pointers in the right direction!!
See Ya next week.Are you coming for both days? Sat. and Sun? If you are are you staying at the McCintosh Inn?

[Robsbuick]

Ken,
I will be there Fri night, Sat, & Sun. I will be staying at the Macintosh.
see you there.

[BQUICK]

I saw an interesting ram air setup on a 71 ram air Firebird this weekend. Used a very large pan that sat on top of the engine and sealed to the hood. What was interesting was how it was notched to allow 1/4 of the fan shroud to be inside the sealed area. Fan forced ram air in addition to the 2 front scoops??
Something to think about.....

Bruce

[cacmanjr]

LOST 3 TENTHS WHEN I SEAL MY STAGE 2 SCOOP TO THE HOOD!
The car went from 11.48 to 11.16 just by removing the air pan that sealed the carb to the hood.

[GS Kubisch]

Carl
What Carburetor and jet size?
Also,what were the incrementals on each timeslip?

[cacmanjr]

950 HP Holley. Jetted 86 square.

------------With Pan--------------------Without Pan

60ft--------1.554--------------------------1.518

660ft------7.231--93.55mph------------7.049----95.74mph

1320ft----11.487-114.21mph---------11.164---119.05mph

[grant455gs]

Interesting.. that's backwards it would seem.

But since you lost ALL of that time in the 60', kinda makes me wonder if it wasn't something else, like lack of traction, or some other variable..

One tenth in the 60' is usually STILL a tenth on the top end.:Do No:

[72GSX]

loosing 5 MPH on top end is not from 60ft difference! Tom

[stage2man]

it may have been sucking the foam onto the air cleaner.

[RED GS 1]

Well;
I worked on the sealing hood problem all this past weekend,I took her out Sat. night to break in the system[check the seal was'nt melting,make sure it stayed in place,etc.etc.] for the first time since this all started back in April,when all I wanted to do was switch from my B4B to a TA SP1, I'm finally seeing the the results.
I am seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
I've never felt the power as much as I do now,the car was never a slouch,I ran a 11.78 last Labor day at E- Town,then I had to dial in the 12's to stay in the competition[No Cage].
I'm confident if everything comes together she'll easily out do that time!
Everyone pray to the rain gods to stay away!! This weekend is Very important to Me,I gotta run some 11.50's or die trying!!:TU:

[grant455gs]

Carl, try one of these..:Do No:

[72GSX]

:grin: 11:16 not to far away from that 10:99 already Carl. Do you think it will be well into 10s with some work and a cool day? Tom

[cacmanjr]

I do not run an air cleaner at the track so the K&N top would not help. The air pan is the width of the stage 2 scoop away from the carb so there is no way it could have possibly sucked the foam into the carb. Once we get the CalTracs properly adjusted, the carb to open all the way and proper jetting, I am confident it will be a 10.90 car. The best part is that it runs on pump gas and it's just a sunday drive.........straight as an arrow and shifts itself. What more could you ask for?