Holley Projection 4di on a 300. Help! wont start now it's cold [Archive]

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LowFlyLark

10-31-2010, 04:58 PM

I spent several hours last week getting my Projection 4di fuel injection system to run. It was hard starting and flooding but when I held the trottle wide open it would start. It was getting too much fuel on startup but not enough fuel when on hard throttle under a load. After making many adjustments it was running very good. It would start up every time with just a click of the key (but the weather was in the high 60's). It was idling at about 750 and it would drop when put in drive but reset itself back to idle (before all my adjustments it would sometimes stall when I put it into drive or reverse.)

Today I need to move the car into long term storage and it wont start no matter what I try. I hooked up the computer and it's getting way to much fuel again. I have literally changed all the settings so that the computer shouldn't be sending any fuel at all, but it is still sending to much fuel.

Anyone out there with fuel injection knowledge that can toss me some suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc495/lowflylark/100_3301.jpg

theone61636

10-31-2010, 06:37 PM

Try reloading the base tune, then spray some starting fluid down the primaries. It'll start up for you enough for you to feather the throttle and get your car warmed up enough for you to drive it.

LowFlyLark

10-31-2010, 07:26 PM

I reloaded the base and it's still dumping in way to much fuel. I disconnected the fuel pump and it will finally start up and run out the soaked intake. I connected the pump back up and it floods out again.:af:

I disconnected the fuel pump again, burned out the extra fuel, loaded the Chev305 map, hit the starter and she flooded out again...:ball:

theone61636

11-01-2010, 08:45 AM

What do you mean it's dumping in too much fuel? You could try disconnecting the secondary fuel injectors? I would call Holley tech and ask for help. It's been a while since I had my Holley Projection, but I don't remember having starting problems.

LowFlyLark

11-01-2010, 12:03 PM

I will back up and start from the beginning and hopefully someone can find a flaw in my set up (or learn from my set up trials).

My Holley Projection 4di was old dusty inventory from a local speed shop. I picked it up for a fraction of the cost of retail. It came with everything except the fuel pump was missing. I added a fuel pump that met Holley specs and installed it by following the instruction booklet word by word. When I first set up the TBI it wasn’t getting enough fuel to startup. If I pumped the throttle as if it had an accelerator pump on each third full throttle it would open the injectors for a split second and give the intake a spray. In order to start the car I would have to pump the throttle 10 times to prime the intake then it would chug and pop and jerk to life. Once the engine was at operating temperature (about 180 or so) it would start to run rich, so rich my eyes would burn with fuel in the air and the oxygen sensor was reading about .89. When I put the car in drive I would have to keep the RPM up or it would stall. I also had to keep the idle set at 1000 or better and advance the timing to about 20 degrees to keep it running.
With the engine running at temperature I was able to follow the instructions for setting the idle. With the idle set to 750 and the timing set to 15 deg I had it running pretty good but quick wide open throttle would cause backfiring out the top and popping and pinging in the exhaust.
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The software that came with my system was DOS (if you can believe it). I called Holley for an update and my system was one of the first TBIs with an Eprom chip that would need to be updated. The new Eprom is version 3.34 and it included software for Windows 98. After rounding up an old computer I was able to load the software and start programming. I started with the map Holley provided as Chev305 to best fit my cubes. The instructions guided me to “advanced set up” to set temperatures, timing and ignition type. I am running stock ignition with a Pertronix II pointless system so I set NONE on the automatic timing feature. Once finished with the Map changes I sent the Map to the Eprom. The car wouldn’t start again without priming and when it warmed up it was lean and hotter than h*ll. I pulled up the graphs and gave it more fuel but still couldn’t get it the fuel it wanted. I went back and loaded the Chev350 Map to see if it would give more fuel and the car would not start no matter how much fuel I gave it. I sent the For302 map and it still wouldn’t start so I went back to the Chev305 and started playing with the graphs to give the car the fuel it wanted. No matter what I tried I couldn’t get the thing to idle or give enough fuel.
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Holley’s trouble shooting guide tells me to check pressures. The original set up tells you to check pressure for both pump pressure as well as return line pressure. The original instructions said that the pump pressure should be 15-30 psi and mine is pushing 26 on the original 5/16” fuel line. Since my car is a convertible it has a 1/4” return line and the instructions recommend 1/4 to 5/16 return line so that looked good. With the new software and Eprom came new instructions. The new sheets tell me the return line pressure can not exceed 5 psi and mine was pushing 9 psi through the 1/4” line.
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Since I have 5/16 line for a supply line I swapped the return line for 3/8 line and used the 3/8 for the pump and the 5/16 for the return. This brings the pressure bouncing in the return line around 3-5 psi so all good to go.
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With the lines swapped around and all the Map work I had played with I was finally able to get the engine to run very well. (Very easy startups and a smooth driving feel.) It still needed a little more fuel on hard acceleration but I was happy to have it running and moving on its own power.
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In just one week the temperatures dropped in my garage from70 degrees to 40 degrees. I needed to move the car but when I tried to start it it flooded. I pulled the air cleaner and every time I try to start the engine all 4 injectors are constant full sprays. I have tried resetting the Eprom back to base8, I tried the original Chev305 Map, I turned all the fuel settings to the lowest injection settings, I set the cold start percentages to just 1%, I even went back to step one in the instructions to get back to the beginning but nothing will stop the full spray of the injectors (except to disconnect the power to the fuel pump). Every time I hook up the fuel pump it floods the intake with fuel.
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I have become pretty familiar with the software now and what it does but I must be missing something because now that it’s cold it thinks it needs to spray away when that starter turns.

LowFlyLark

11-01-2010, 01:16 PM

I'll add a little more info about the engine and TBI.

When I pruchased the injection system my engine was stock. It is the Wildcat 355 version of the 300. The stock rating is 250 horses with 11 to 1 compression. The Holley I picked up is the 504-23 Pro-Jection 4Di, 650 cfm. Holley rates this unit to work well up to 250 horse power. I never did get the injection system installed before I ended up rebuilding the engine so now that I am setting it up I am finding out that it may be a little small for my build.

When I rebuilt my 300 I added a mild Isky 262/262 cam and I spent many hours porting and mateing intake and exhaust. I also added shorty headers so I'm told I may be pushing 300 horse or better at the flywheel. With this information I would think that I may have trouble getting fuel at high RPMs, so I may have to upgrade the injectors to get the full potential out of the little engine. With the right tune, normal driving should be good for some drop top, laid back, fun in the sun.

LowFlyLark

11-01-2010, 08:39 PM

Holley tech is not much help and the instructions tell me to go 1/4 throttle if it floods on startup, if it doesn't start then wide open throttle, but wide open really sprays the injectors.:af:

I slept on it and I thought about it all day then it hit me...:idea2: If I hold the throttle wide open the throttle sensor tells the computer to spray the injectors fully as well. To clear the flood the blades need to be open but not fully open for fuel, so this time when I tried to start it (and it flooded again) I moved the throttle 1/4 (still flooded) then moved to about 1/2 and it chugged and popped and fired. OK Holley, don't tell people to hold it wide open when it's flooded. :spank:

Now that I know how to cold start the thing I can play with the cold start settings throughout the winter and get that dialed in. The idle is off now from messing with it and when I drove it around the block the idle dropped down to 700 and it blew back pressure out the oil dipstick hole and spit oil out. (Must have been the low vacuum not pulling the pressure from the breather tube in the valve cover, it hasn't done that before.)

I also noticed that I have black smoke now (it needed more fuel before it got cold) so I'll need to start all over again with the fuel settings.

I am starting to wonder if all the hours of installation and adjustments are worth it. It will never be a 12 second quarter mile but I DO expect it to show it's horses and torque (and of course I need to know it will start when I tell it to).

Steiner99

11-01-2010, 09:21 PM

There is a fellow named Jim Mellema who has been running this system for a very long while now, over ten years at least. He was an administrator on the camaros dot net forums and now runs his own site at firstgens dot com. He's very knowledgeable and always willing to help out if you want to try there. His site is probably the best way to get ahold of him.

I can't post links due to my post count, but here is a post of his from '99:

GregGold:
-Jim,

Does your fi setup control ignition timing? If so, can you elaborate on it, as far as the programming aspects of it?

Ive always wondered why a return line cant be 'T'ed into the supply line between the tank and the pump? Wouldnt that have the same effect/result?

Thanks,

Greg

-JimM:
Two excellent questions, that I didn't address before, but I should.

Ignition: this is a "Standard option". The Holley system has connectors for a late model electronic advance HEI, or a Holley electronic distributor, but you don't have to connect them. The knock sensor module is an extra, and it only works if you have an electronic advance distributor. I think an OEM knock sensor module will work, but I'm not sure. I bought a new mechanical/vacuam HEI before I got the EFI, so I was out of luck here.

Now for the ugly truth about the return line and the rest of the fuel system. I did, in fact, do exactly what you said. I'm running the a new 5/16 hard line for the return, and at the tank, I've attached it to the original 1/4 vapor return coming out of the tank, and also tee'd it into the supply. This does work, but it gets real ugly if you ever get air in the lines, such as running out of gas! The air slug runs around in circles and won't purge out, and you don't get any fuel pressure and the car won't run!

At any rate, the important thing is that the system be able to dump enough fuel at idle. The holley book says no more than 7 psi in the return line. There are fittings on the throttle body to connect pressure guages to the supply (supply pressure is 15 PSI)and return. You can tell if you're not dumping enough fuel because the computer will show the injection volume at minimum and the o2 will show it's still rich.

When I first set mine up, I used the whole vapor return line from the engine back. I had 11 psi return pressure (should be less than 7 psi)and a stinky rich idle. Runnning a new 5/16 hard line from the engine to the tank, and putting in the tee took care of that. After running out of gas, I crimped the bypass line off the tee, and the return pressure is still OK. So that's how I'm running now.

While this works, I don't recommend it. Pull the tank, bring the sending unit to someone with a welder, and have them weld in a 5/16, or 3/8" return line! I've had a lot of fuel system hassles, all my own fault for trying to take shortcuts, and all totally avoidable.

TheSilverBuick

11-02-2010, 10:13 AM

I bought a used 670cfm 2bbl Holley TBI for my T-bird off e-bay, and when I got it on the car one injector was plugged/leaking badly. It behaved the same way as you described (I'm using a megasquirt). I had the base fuel set to pretty much zero and it would idle nicely but wouldn't accelerate or run right. Then one day...I had the air cleaner off when I fired it up, and it was immediately apparent that one injector was spraying every where and one wasn't doing a thing (fuel set to zero!). Also I noticed that one injector dripped a bit after shut off. Bought some injectors pretty cheaply off e-bay and has been good since.

TheSilverBuick

11-02-2010, 10:15 AM

*also, if it's spraying fuel during cranking at WOT, it sounds like your TPS calibration is off. Check to see if you can reset it. Every EFI system I know of has a fuel cut during cranking with the throttle over 75%-90%.

LowFlyLark

11-02-2010, 12:39 PM

stiener99 - Thanks for the lead. I will look up that forum. It's great to have a contact with someone that has been down the road less traveled.

thesilverbuick - I will go back and check the TBS settings. It makes sense that the fuel would cut off at WOT on start. I know I set it once but I changed from the Chev305 map to the Chev350 and I don't remember if I reset it.

RoadDawg

11-02-2010, 07:54 PM

I had the same problem when I had the Holley EFI on mine. I want to say check your grounds and also your power connections. I think that is what ended up being my problem, but it's been over two years now, and my memory sucks anymore.

LowFlyLark

11-07-2010, 01:05 PM

I checked the throttle positioning sensor and sure ennough I didn't reset it, that's why it was still spraying fuel at wide open.

Got the manual out and started from scratch. I resent the eProm chip back to base8 and checked all the wiring and it was back to square one. I loaded the Chev305 map slected none for electornic ignition set the prefered timeing and temperatures. SET the TPS this time and the adjustment base setting to 30 (based on the manuals start point) and started it up.

It ran terrible but it was running. It was backfiring out the top with the littlelest throttle pressure so accourding to the manual it needed more fuel. I kept rasing the full graph a little each time untill I could give it throttle without backfiring. I followed the idle adjustment steps to the letter and she was running fantastic.

I drove around the block and when I stepped on it she would stumble and backfire. So I loaded up more fuel settings and tried again. She still stumbles and hesitated but no more backfiring and no black smoke so I think I am close with the fuel just need more acceleration fuel.

I raised the full graph for the accelleration table and hit the street, still stumbled. I raised it a bunch more and hit the street again. I pushed the throttle off the stop sign about 3/4 open and she spun the tires and launched. I let her shift up a to second and I stepped hard on it. NICE. This little thing wants to play. I slid it into first gear and pushed it hard to about 4000 rpm, she was smooth and clean all the way up.

That was yesterday. This morning she wouldn't start without playing with it. The o2 shows it's rich but it wont start with out loading up some fuel. I read several posts on the Camaro site and it sounds like this is normal for the o2. So now I only need to start playing with the cold start numbers and I will be ready for the dino.

sean Buick 76

11-08-2010, 02:34 PM

Good work!

66larkgs

11-09-2010, 10:15 PM

glad to hear you are working out some of those issues. in the begining it sounded like a bad coolant temp sensor(cts) but glad to see it was only a programming issue. With your cold startup (open loop)you will need to richen her up (open up that injector pulse)until that coolant is around operating temp, Are you using a gm style cts? That setup i want to say is in open loop until cts reads 110-120f degress. So the only sensors it would be reading is the tps,cts,and maybe a map depending on your setup. what is your intial timing? what are you using to moniter your a/f ? are you using wideband 02's? what is your voltage from your o2 in closed loop. are they bouncing .2-.8
? should have a nice graph pattern. www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm
check out these graphs, and keep it in mind when tunning. i think tunning is one of my favorite things due to the instant satisfaction. didnt mean to ramble but thier is so many little things to get right just to get it tunned..

paul
66lark gs
turbo 401 nailhead t67 rear mount

53 r100 international,
chopped, channeled,
406sbc scat crank,
.630-.630 cam 300r
rpm ported heads

LowFlyLark

11-11-2010, 05:04 PM

TheSilverBuick

11-11-2010, 05:15 PM

Ah yes, the dreaded lean pop :*( Much easier to start out rich and work your way lean.

Cold start is tricky. I still play with the settings on mine from time to time. I shouldn't *have* to, but when cold cold I have to hold the throttle around 1500rpm for 30-60 seconds before it'll maintain idle. I'll make sure I get that nailed down after I swap cams though because I intend on installing a remote control start shortly after.

LowFlyLark

11-11-2010, 05:25 PM

I have a remote start installed with an alarm system but I pulled the fuse to by pass it for now. I hope to get it to auto start at cold. It will auto start worm which will be fun at car shows to play with. I am shooting for auto start with auto a/c for those hot days, I really dont' plan to drive it in the cold but I will tune for it anyway.

TheSilverBuick

11-11-2010, 05:43 PM

I plan on being in the house and letting it warm up on those below freezing days =P

doc

11-13-2010, 08:02 AM

Years ago I converted a jeep 6 to efi,,,, had basicly the same problem,,,, turned out that I had wired the tps backward... reversed the wires and it ran fine....

66larkgs

11-13-2010, 12:32 PM

Paul - Thanks for the o2 sensor link. Very good information.

My Holley throttle body came as a kit with almost everything needed. The base tune in the controller was set at 110 degrees to change over from open loop. The software will allow me to set the temperature to go closed loop. Holley recommends 75 degrees so that's what I changed it to. In open loop the controller is reading throttle position, internal temp, ambient temp, oil pressure (as a fail safe shut down) and map.

I am at 4600 feet above sea level so my map (not running) is 85.

If I remember correctly the stock initial timing should be 12. With my mild cam and the point conversion it won't run well less than 15 so that is where I have it set. It does run better at about 18 but I'm not sure what it should be. Any suggestions?

I don't know what the o2 sensor is that Holley provided but it has 3 wires. In closed loop at idle the voltage bounces the full range but tends to stay in the .8 range. At about 2500 rpm the voltage is in the .4 range.

The software doesn't have a live graph. The data monitor program displays conditions as a number next to the text, ie, eng temp=180, amb temp=80, map=85, o2=.8, tbs=30... etc. I think I will need to puchase better software to fine tune. Achartpro software has come up on a few web searches. I talked to Orin about the software but at the time I didn't know what I was doing so the conversation was over my head. Any recommendations?
I would change that cold loop setting back to 110 degrees. The reason i would is because you run a three wire 02 which does not have a heater wire in it. these 02 have to warm up on thier own. How far down are those 02 from the header? 12 -18 inches..?is that tps calibrated correctly? @ idle does it give you a voltage or a percent. if it is a percent it should be around 7-10% during cold start up. can you manually adjust that throttle blade to bring that idle up to 1000rpms @idle. dont be scared to bring that timing up to 18 degrees but i would start at 12-15. You are running a aluminum motor so you can get away with a little more timming.once you get rid of the popping i would fine tune the timming. what is your total timing? 32@2500rpms. what does the plugs look like.Are they black with soot? if so you need less fuel in the program?how is she starting when it is @18? does it sound like is is too advance? it would sound like a low battery and slow crank. when your reading a a computor think of this when you see .8 the computor see's .8 which =rich. the computor than will shorten pulse to try to get it to run around .4-.5 . under load you want it to run .6-.8. let me know how those plugs look and how much vaccum are you producing? when setting timing try to get as much vacuum as possible 18-22 inches.
paul
66larkgs
turbo 401 nailhead

LowFlyLark

11-13-2010, 01:56 PM

Hooked up the computer this morning and the temp is at 39 degrees for both ambient and internal. When I tried to start it she shuttered then nothing. It sounds like no spark but I know it's there. I took off the air cleaner and cranked it again and it is spraying fully all 4 injectors again. It is flooding again and when I push full throttle it still sprays full all 4. The only way to clear the flood is to pull the injector wires.

I pulled a spark plug and its wet and black with soot. I have been trying to start it for about an hour and it will only shake a little now and then. I hooked up the fuel to give it a little spray then disconnect only to get a little more shuttering.

I have shorty headers and the o2 is down a few inches from the collector at about the level of the starter.

I set the tps per instructions. The manual had me start at a setting of 40 to get it started. At 40 the idle was about 1800 rpm. Then gradually turn the tps down to 30. It then had me place my fiinger over the IAC (idle air control) motor intake hole and set the idle to 50 rpm less than desired idle. I have to set the idle with both tps adjustment as well as set screw manual blade adjusment. The tps full range must be a voltage, it is a number from about 25 to 215 so at 30 that will be about 2-3 percent. On cold start I checked all the numbers and the tps doesn't change. Sounds like the IAC motor is the only idle air.

I am going to advance it a little and if I can get it started I will check the vacuum.

Also, I found the IAC setting and it has a range of 0-250. It is set at 0. I will try playing with this number as well.

66larkgs

11-13-2010, 03:24 PM

Your iac is your choke.. it moves in and out allow more air in depending on engine temp.if that isent set right it will never run..iac will also effect idle traits, it will cause hard starting.Have you tried putting your hand over the throttle body and unplug the injectors when you first try to start it. I would start with basics and i would double check you timing and your spark. bring it up to tdc compression on the number one cyclinder. take off you valve cover and watch the valves, as the intake opens than shuts watch your line on your balancer. set the line to zero and you are at where you want to be. now, make sure your rotor in your distributor is pointing to the brass piece on the inside of the dist cap for the number one spark plug wire.If that rotor is pointing to number one you are good. if not you are off. you could be off a tooth and mess you all up. Start with your basics and make sure you have your timing and fuel pressure right.

Paul
66larkgs
turbo 401 nailhead

LowFlyLark

11-13-2010, 04:05 PM

Finally got it to start. I have to play with the injectors by unplugging them to keep it from flooding. I set the timing to 18 and it runs much better. I increased the tps to 35 and increased the idle to 1000.The vacuum is in the 18-20 range. I don't have any way to check the timing at 2500 but judging from the looks of it I would say it's in the mid 30 range at 2500. I don't think I have the cam off by one tooth (and I hope I don't). Once I have it started it runs great. I brought it up to temperature and when I turn it off sometimes it starts with out touching the trottle and sometimes it won't. I played with the number range on the iac but with the engine warmed up it doesn't seam to make any difference.

With all the playing I need to do to get it started it looks like it's getting too much fuel and not enouph air when cold. When it's warm everything is great.

How do I set the iac? I'd bet this has something to do with it.

66larkgs

11-13-2010, 05:27 PM

[QUOTE=LowFlyLark;1746122]Finally got it to start. I have to play with the injectors by unplugging them to keep it from flooding. I set the timing to 18 and it runs much better. I increased the tps to 35 and increased the idle to 1000.The vacuum is in the 18-20 range. I don't have any way to check the timing at 2500 but judging from the looks of it I would say it's in the mid 30 range at 2500. I don't think I have the cam off by one tooth (and I hope I don't). Once I have it started it runs great. I brought it up to temperature and when I turn it off sometimes it starts with out touching the trottle and sometimes it won't. I played with the number range on the iac but with the engine wormed up it doesn't seam to make any difference.

With all the playing I need to do to get it started it looks like it's getting too much fuel and not enouph air when cold. When it's worm everything is great.
How do I set the iac? I'd bet this has something to do with it.[/QUO

i put the link for the manual below and mention the pg it is on.

http://www.holley.com/data/TechService/Technical/R10022.pdf

pg 37 gives you all the reasons why you might be having hard starting.
Your iv (injector volume number at idle around 200?) cold start.
put your minum cold iac postion to 125 and adjust it from thier (go to pg 30)
is your map sensor hooked up to full manifold vacuum(pg11)
go to the top of page 35 help you map out your fuel curve.
pg 40 to test iac valve, coolant and air ambiant, real easy to test.
is your return line pressure under 5 psi?
too much fuel pressure? can you tune it down a little. Have you tried
removing fuel by reducing the cold engine fuel compensation values. These values are in the Engine Temperature Compensation section under “Edit”. Add or subtract fuel at the temperature of your cold start to meet the requirements of your engine. Save these changes and send the information to the ECU. These changes may take several cold starts to complete.

hope this helps
start on pg 37 and check basics.

paul
66larkgs
turbo 401 nailhead

LowFlyLark

11-14-2010, 11:00 AM

66lakgs - Thank you very much for your help. It's great to be able to bounce ideas out for knowledge and reminders.

The light is almost on again.:idea2:

The Holley link you provided is the book that came with the kit. The problem I am having is the software in the book is not the same as the software I have. In the beginning of this project I had to find an old Windows 3 computer to load the 3 floppy disks of software. The original software is DOS and it has two programs. One program for tuning and one for monitoring. When I first started to set this up and follow the software and manual I had both programs running on the computer. The monitor software shows the current settings and the other lets you make the changes and save them. With both programs running I tried to start the car and in a cloud of smoke it fried the desktop computer. I called Holley tech support and they told me to purchase the new upgraded eProm chip and software from Summit Racing. The new software is Windows 95 and is very different from the original manual. Holley support provided a link to an updated manual that I printed out so I tossed the original manual on the work bench and didn't look at it again. (I will see if I can find that link to the new booklet and post it here for others that may want to see it.) I found another old computer and I followed the new book word for word but thanks to your tips and reference to the old book I can see now that the new book is missing lots of information on tuning. Looks like this is the problem and I will have to study the old software steps and find a way to work that into the new software.

I will go through your tips and see if I can make some sense out of this.

LowFlyLark

11-14-2010, 02:39 PM

Looks like today I am back to square one. It just keeps flooding when it's cold. I have been cranking on the poor thing for over an hour and the injectors keep pulsing way too much fuel. I have tried everything to slow the flow but nothing is working.

66larkgs

11-14-2010, 07:29 PM

have you checked that coolant temp sensor?

LowFlyLark

11-15-2010, 11:42 AM

I have tested every part and wire. All tested correct (every voltage, pressure, and range). Everthing is new and is working like new.

When I finally got it started on Saturday and warmed it to 180 the car ran fantastic. Timing, fuel volume, temperatures, pressures, vacuum, everything is correct. Each time I shut it off I could restart it with just a click of the key. I let it cool down to about 60 degrees and it still started with just a click. I let it cool overnight and it flooded.

The cold engine settings allow me to add extra fuel for cold starts. Holley set the cold start to add 50% more fuel at 30 degrees. I changed that number to 0 but I don't see any change.

The software shows full fuel possible at 245. When the engine is warm the fuel volume is 45-50 at idle and a pulse of 1900. When the engine is cold the pulse on cranking is 11,000 and volume of 245. I can't find anything in the software to change these numbers when cranking cold. The graphs allow me to set the fuel volume as low as 1 at any point of the rpm or map range. I dropped the full graph to 1 and it still sprays 245. I have played with every setting possible and nothing will change this 245 number when cranking this cold. It makes no sense.:Do No:

LowFlyLark

11-20-2010, 05:18 PM

Heat wave this morning. 41 degrees so I diceded to try to start the car. Plugged in the computer to see the numbers. Fuel volume at 163 and pulse at 2400. What? That's right were it's supposed to be.

Turned the key and it started right up. :confused:

It's going to get down to single digits next week. I will keep trying it at different temps. It makes no sense why some days it's flowing all out and other days it's just right.

I haven't been looking closely at the map senser and the barometric pressure. Maybe a low pressure atmosphere may effect the map but I don't think it can have that much of an effect. :Do No:

LowFlyLark

11-25-2010, 01:58 PM

Garage is 27 degrees today. The numbers on the computer went crazy again. The fuel volume shows max again at 245 and duration at 11,000.

I pulled the 300 rpm fuel numbers down about 40 percent and I lowered the cold start numbers about 50 percent and the numbers did finally come down. The volume dropped to 192 and the duration to 9600 and it almost started before it flooded again and killing the battery. I think I am finally on the right track. I'm sure this will screw up my warm starts but now I know the way to move the numbers around in 10 degree temperature steps so my start up curve on the little motor is way different from anything else I have read or seen.

I looked at the map vacumm numbers and they don't move much on start up. I would think my cam may be goofing with the vacumm a little as well but not much on start up, only when it actually chugs and tries to start does the map numbers move. It doesn't look like the barametric pressure has any effect either.

sean Buick 76

12-12-2010, 05:52 PM

LowFlyLark

12-14-2010, 12:48 PM

I haven't been able to work on it much but I did start it over the week end. It warmed up and was in the 50's so I was sure it would start. Stupid me, I forgot and left the battery charger on all week and I was worried that I may have overcharged the battery. I clicked the starter and she fired up no problem. I checked the battery again later on Sunday and she flooded. :rant:

We are expecting another cold spell so this weekend I will be playing with the numbers again.

LowFlyLark

12-18-2010, 12:59 PM

:rant: :rant: :rant: As much as I hate too... I think it is time to through in the towel.

I turned the fuel numbers down as far as possible. The fuel volume is set at 0 and the durations absolute minimum will go to 77 u sec. When it is warm outside that will shut the fuel off but for some reason when it is cold the fuel is still sprays constant.

I talked to Holley support and they tell me that the pump must be malfunctioning when cold and pushing too much pressure. They tell me the pump is set to push 15psi but the regulator will adjust from 10-20 psi. I can't get mine to go below 18 so Holley told me that I needed to replalce the pump and drop the pressure to 10. I installed the new pump today and nothing changed. The minimum pressure out of the regulator is still 18psi and the fuel is still spraying when I have everything set to spray zero. The only way to stop the fuel is to pull the wire harness.

I did finally distroy the battery and I am concerned that I will burn up my expensive high torque starter from cranking on this poor little 11to1 motor.

I took some photos of the dash for my build update and I noticed that the fuel guage was on empty. The gauge was on 1/2 when I started trying to set the cold start. This shows how much fuel this thing can spray. I have gone through 10 gallons of gas trying to start this poor thing and I am willing to bet that I have standing fuel in the exhaust. Not a good situation if this thing fired.:af:

I have put lots of hours and expense into this injection system and I don't want to give up but I think I have tried everything and it just doesn't like the cold.

66larkgs

12-29-2010, 11:33 PM

LowFlyLark

12-30-2010, 05:30 PM

sell it on ebay and start fresh!!! i was looking into running a FAST exi setup... or you can cheap it out and run megasquit.. alot of people seem to like that setup. the Fast setup is exspensive but a nice unit. Weld in some injector bungs into your intake and than just run a throttle body on top of your intake.
paul
66lark gs
turbo nailhead
Good advise. Starting to think towards other units and options. This old unit will make a great off road system for a small block. It will most likely be showing up on eBay for the wheelers.