1970 Stage3 Cars [Archive]

leo455

10-26-2003, 09:12 PM

I didn't know that. The cars that I have seen. Was a white GSX and a Aqua marine GS. The GSX was at the GS national's in 1988-89. The man who owned the car had order it late in70. Of course he was mocked. I was septical two, until i was in Post Office class for mechinc's. A teacher ask me out of the blue about Stage 3 cars. He said he had rode in one. Had him find out were it was. The next time I was there , he had found out that it had totaled and was a junk yard in Fort Smith. His cousin had some pictures of it.Iwas aqua with a white painted top.

Chris Lott

10-26-2003, 09:19 PM

The BPG also owns a Stage III block correct? I guess anything can happen, but I'd be very doubtful. If I had a dollar for all of the times I have heard "stage 3" and "stage 4" buick stories back from the day, I'd be a rich man. And most of the time I don't have the heart to break it to them. :Dou:

GSXMEN

10-26-2003, 09:46 PM

TA Performance sells 'Stage 3 or Stage 4' 455 alum. heads....that's pretty much the extent of what might be referred to as a 'stage 3' or 'stage 4' engine.

Smartin

10-26-2003, 09:52 PM

Read about the StageIII experimental 4 bolt main block here:

http://www.buickstreet.com/455buickstage3.html

leo455

10-27-2003, 07:07 AM

I guess the people who know about this Buick offering won"t tell these "new guys whom should have got a dollar" that Buick did offer it as dealer installed option. The stage 2 heads were to difficult to cast so Buick and Jim Bell had replacement heads sent off to be ported and flowed tested. I think the company was BPE . The thing is I seen two of them and I know it was offered. How many cars are out there? As far as the Stage 111 block , It was called the pro stock block when I was growing up. I think the Judd"s raced the car.

Dan Healey

10-27-2003, 09:17 AM

The Paper Trail or Street/Strip? I sure don't know the history, but others will! Greatscat would have some idea, along with a few others. I would like to know.:Smarty:

Stage2go

10-27-2003, 06:11 PM

In the mid 70's Kenne-Bell offered a "Stage 3 "cylinder heads that on paper flowed close to the original Stage 2 heads.
Well I've had both and the KB heads were just S1 heads with a port and polish setup.At the time they ran much better than the stock heads and required no special headers as the S2 heads.
BUT,the S2 heads still out performed using the same cam,headers etc.
As we know now with the new aluminum S1 heads,things can be improved upon.

STAGE III

10-27-2003, 07:00 PM

Well, I know it will come up, and since I am close to post #455 (perfect topic for post 455) I'll comment on the "STAGE III" name on the club's Experimental 4 bolt main block for those who are new to the board.

The racer who was the original recipient of the 4 bolt block received it complete and ready to run complete down to the oil in the pan in the 1970's (blocks cast date is 1970 also).

The Buick gentlemen who delivered it called it the Stage III engine because it had, and I quote "Stage III heads,Stage III cam,higher compression Stage III pistons, a Gilmore style oiling system, a sheetmetal intake, and of course the 4 bolt main block".

Because of what the Buick employees, and the drag racer who owned it till I purchased it in the 80's called it I have honored the "Stage III" title although Mr. Dennis Manner identified it as the "Experimental 4 bolt block" in about 2001.

Which ever you chose though:beer

STAGE III

10-27-2003, 07:06 PM

AAAAAkkk! 454 post?:Dou: Ok, need one more cool thing
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.................

Ok, I found the 4 speed car again, that is good enough for post number 455!:"Only" a Stage 1 though .:Brow:

Chris Lott

10-27-2003, 07:15 PM

John, is this the one that was burried in the tires and the turkey wanted 11k or something like that for it? Please tell me he moved the car and is cleaning up the area around it a little now...

STAGE III

10-27-2003, 07:23 PM

Same one baybeeeee. It has been moved to another city but ya gotta try harder than that to throw ole Fritz off the trail!:Brow:

Ok, gotta go to the barn and lend a friend in need some tools.
Check back later

Chris Lott

10-27-2003, 07:34 PM

Moved to another city? Does this mean it is going to get freshened up and restored? Or does this mean they found a new resting place for it? :blast:

leo455

10-27-2003, 08:35 PM

oK SO DENNIS MANNER NAMED THE STAGE 3 BLOCK AND YOU HAVE APEICE OF BUICK HISTORY . I HONOR THAT, BUT WHO IS GOING TO GIVE YOU OR JIM BELL. HE HAD OR HAS THE TUNNEL PORT HEADS THAT GO TO YOUR BLOCK. BUT BUICK AND KENNE-BELL OFFERED A STAGE3 PACKAGE OVER THE COUNTER. BECAUSE THE STAGE2 HEADS WERE TO HARD TO CAST. DID THE STAGE 2 HEADS WORK BETTER HELLYA!!!!!!.

STAGE III

10-27-2003, 09:26 PM

Chris,

New resting spot.I just sold my 69 Hurst though so I may be helping one of our board members secure it through a possible trade for the X though:Brow:

Got to find out if it is for sale first (70 GSX Stage 1 4 speed car)
2 years ago he wanted the 11k so whether it is actually worth it or not he probably will want more:rolleyes:

Haven't given up yet though

leo455

10-28-2003, 07:45 AM

OK I GIVE. THE X-BLOCK IS IN YOUR HANDS AND NOT IN SOMEBODY'S STASH PILE.:TU: THE HEADS ARE IN JIM BELL'S STASH PILE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE WHOLE ENGINE PUTBACK TOGETHER .:beer . KNOW AS FOR WHAT WAS ASKING ABOUT. I QUESS THERE WAS A DEALERSHIP IN THE OKLAHOMA AREA THAT DID AND BUT THIS ON SOME OF THEIR CARS.:bglasses: I AM NOT TRIING TO START ANYTHING. I'VE BEEN INTO GS CARS SENSE MY OLDEST BROTHER BROUGHT HOME A GREEN 69 STAGE 1. I WAS 10 THEN AND I'M 44. SORRY FOR THE QUESTION.:)

STAGE III

10-28-2003, 08:15 AM

Hey Leo455,

Everything is cool :beer maybe I just misunderstood your response.

By the way,the block doesn't belong to me anymore, so I wasn't trying to brag on it or anything, just trying to supply some info for you on your original Stage III question.

No biggie, sorry if I was a little short fused, my bad

P.S. I'd like to see that thing put back together too

:TU:

Adam Whitman

10-28-2003, 12:48 PM

Leo, the block now belongs to the BPG thanks to a generous donation, and it has been restored as much as a block can be. It is slated to go to the Sloan Museum at some point.

I think that Mr. Dennis Manner is the only guy that could confirm what went out the back door at Buick. He did tell some folks last year that the 4-bolt block was done by the engineering dept during their lunch hours and on their own time. He would have surely been involved in anything else of that nature that went out.

As for the special heads and things that went out with the 4-bolt block, if Jim Bell has them then he is the only one that can decide that the engine go back together. The whole engine in the Sloan Museum would be a great thing for Buick fans.

I think that I had read someplace that the Kenne-Bell stage 3's were the result of them buying the stage 2 casting molds from Buick and intending to cast the stage 2 heads. When the project didn't work out they filled the orders with the ported stage-1 heads labeled as "stage-3" heads. This time Jim Bell is probably the only one that can confirm the circumstances.

In any case, it doesn't appear that Dennis Manner or Buick engineering ever had anything to do with a "stage 3." Not to say that some dealership with/without Kenne-Bell cooperation didn't create their own Stage-3 package.

Stage2go

10-28-2003, 03:19 PM

I remember KB advertising their Stage 3 heads as the best flowing Buick heads available(at the time)
In fact I believe I have stashed somewhere the comparison to the Stage 2 heads as part of their original sales promo.Dave Benisek was involved at the time if memory serves.
Yes they tried to make the S2 heads from the original molds but alais came up with the same problems Buick had.I still think they have the molds.

leo455

10-29-2003, 09:40 AM

Well guys I got more imformation than I thought I would get. The thing is if yenko.Baldwin or burger were into buicks . Then they would be worthless? So , if a dealership in oklahoma did a few cars wouldn't it be at least nice to know that their was a tuner car dealer holding up the torch for us back then.

Marco

10-29-2003, 10:07 AM

leo455 said:Well guys I got more imformation than I thought I would get. The thing is if yenko.Baldwin or burger were into buicks . Then they would be worthless? So , if a dealership in oklahoma did a few cars wouldn't it be at least nice to know that their was a tuner car dealer holding up the torch for us back then.

There is a certain Baldwin Motion 1969 GS400 Stage1 what came through the ranks :Brow:

...the only one known of it's kind :cool:

Adam Whitman

10-29-2003, 02:27 PM

leo455 said:Well Then they would be worthless? So , if a dealership in oklahoma did a few cars wouldn't it be at least nice to know that their was a tuner car dealer holding up the torch for us back then.

Sure it would! My only points were that it doesn't appear to be a Buick-made or sponsored product, or with any Buick produced "Stage 3" special equipment. I'd sure be happy to stumble accross one and be able to find the origin of it.

leo455

10-30-2003, 07:58 AM

I WAS HOPEN THAT THERE WAS SOMEBODY OUT THERE , THAT HAD ONE. MAYBE THE GUY WHO HAD OR HADE THE CAR I SEEN AND TALKED TO. HE COULD AT LEAST GIVE US SOME INFO ON THE ORGIN OF HIS CAR AND WE COULD GO FROM THERE. I'M GOING TO MY ARCHIVES OF K-B AND OLD PICTURES OF THE GS NATIONALS. TO SEE IF I CAN POST THE REASON FOR MY QUESTION. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE BALDWIN MOTION CAR AND SOME DETAILS.

Marco

10-30-2003, 08:14 AM

leo455 said:I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE BALDWIN MOTION CAR AND SOME DETAILS.

This V8Buick thread (http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5897) has some pictures/information.

Truely a piece of Buick 'go-fast' history.

Enjoy!

leo455

10-30-2003, 09:28 AM

:jd: WELL NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE. HOW MUCH IS THIS CAR WORTH ? NOW DOES IT HAVE THE PAPER WORK? ANYMORE CARS? DID BUICK HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT?

Marco

10-30-2003, 09:57 AM

I'm sure the Baldwin motion '69 GS400 is worth 'Mucho denaro', considering it's 'one-of-a-kind'.

Yes, Jim does have documentation :TU:

leo455

10-31-2003, 03:57 PM

Well we got a start on tuner cars. I been going back thru some old magizines. I found an article on the K-B stage3 heads they were done by Al Dicksen of HRD.These heads can be ID by CWH, stamped on the end of each head. They were service replacement heads well ported and then sand blasted. They were good for 25 hp over stock S1. The other thing we have been talking about . The "Pro Stock , X-Block , Stage 3 ," motor . The acticle I have qoutes Dennis Manner as saying that two of these motors were built. One was given to the Judd Brothers and the other to Tony Branson. He also states that their were a hand full of round port stage 2 heads.:Comp:

STAGE III

11-01-2003, 06:48 AM

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...round port. heads........now WHERE have I seen some of those?

Oh yeh.............here ya go:laugh:

leo455

11-01-2003, 07:44 AM

ON THE INTAKE SIDE

STAGE III

11-01-2003, 10:51 AM

O........ :rolleyes:

DRS4554

11-01-2003, 11:31 AM

The way I understand it, they were playing with tunnel port heads as early as 68. But, never even made an intake for them.:Do No:

STAGE III

11-01-2003, 02:13 PM

Yeh, I heard the same thing from the racer I bought the
" 1970 prostock block,4 bolt,Experimental engine,Stage III" etc etc " block from.

He said my block originally had the Stage III tunnel port heads with a sheet metal (I think 2 four's) intake.

It wasn't the Judd or Branson's though.It also had a "Gilmore" style oiling system on it that ran off the crank, which the racer said worked good until you let off of it on the top end and it would have to be shut down because it would throw the belt.:Do No:

I also got some 69 vintage chrome 400 valve covers in pretty rough shape but still wearing the original embossed (or raised lettering) factory Buick "Stage 2" decals.

I also have some type of Ram Air air cleaner that I wonder if is a Prototype for the 69 through 71 GS air cleaners.It has been custom fabricated and is looks to be pretty old.

We can still get GS air cleaners today for $150 bucks so I cannot imagine someone went to the trouble it would take to make this 20 or 30 years ago unless it was a early prototype.

If anyone cares I can post some pictures of it sometime.

leo455

11-01-2003, 05:15 PM

So , there are at least 3 of these blocks out there. There are at least 3 sets of the tunnel port heads out there :Brow: . Man O Man! How cool would it be to find one of these heads[pair]. Could anybody find one of thse cars? Stage 3 car?
Stage2 in 69. I've seen articles on 68 Stage2 cars. That have cowl induction , hi-compresssion pistons and hotter cam.

STAGE III

11-01-2003, 09:36 PM

Dang Leo! You know all the secrets!

Soooooooo you even know about the banned cowl induction too?

Very impressive.....not to many know about that one.

Thumbs up to ya :TU:

leo455

11-05-2003, 05:24 PM

WELL , I'VE BEEN LOOKING THE MY NATS PICTURES, IT TAKES ALONG TIME WHEN YOU ONLY MISSED 3 AND TAKEN PICS EVERY YEAR. I WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK . IF THIERS ANYBODY OUT THERE. AKA PINK FLOYD. SEND US PICS OF YOUR CAR AND SOME IMFO. IF ANY OF YOU IN FORT SMITH ARE IN JUNK YARDS REMEMBER TO LOOK ON THE END OF THE HEADS FOR THE CHD STAMPING ON THEM. TAKES GUYS FOR THE IMPUT.:beer