Flyin' Juiced 464 Build-up

[Buicks4Speed]

I'm going to give my build up of my 464. This could be a bit lengthy.
SHORT BLOCK:
.038 over venola pistons w/ring land down .300"(.250 is stock") protect from NOS heat for spraying over 250hp
Venola pistons were used because of there material composition making them a very tough piston that can take alot of abuse
Tapered piston pin were used- I've seen thin light-wieght pin break under NOS abuse
Block is poured w/hard block 1.5" from the deck
Block has T/A girdle plus a halo girdle w/ unidirectial windage screen attatched to the halo
Block has a groove behind the top of the main bearings w/ additional oil hole drilled in the bearings 45' of top center main oil hole
Crank is cross drilled
Rods are 6.800" aluminum BBC
8 qt oil pan fabricated by myself off a stock top w/ a baffle, scraper,and # 12 external pick-up with self-fabricated scavenger in the pan. Oil line goes through a moroso #12 in line oil screen filter, that is removable, then to the top of the oil pump where a #12 90' fitting was welded in place. Original oil line pick-up was blocked in the block with a fleeze plug plus a block off plate over the pick-up tube mount.
Oil pump is a high volume with an additional #6 line going off the by-pass passage in the bottom of the pump to the back of the block.
Roller cam from T/A Performance- .050 int. 267-270/ exh. 274-278, lift .680 l/c 108 install at 110' but advancing to 108' ICL.-Anyone that has degreed TA's rollers on all cylinders knows what I'm talking about when I put the variation on the intake and exhaust specs.
Billet Double roller.
Thrust surface of roll cam on the block has a oiling hole drilled into the passenger lifter galley oil feed to prevent the roller cam from digging into the block.- It will dig into the block! For the same reason you have to run a bronze ditributor gear.
Lifter galley plates installed with Devcon Titaium epoxy. @ $60.00
The back corner of the "no load" portion of the lifter galley plates removed to allow oil drain back and to allow crank case ventalation for Moroso vacuum pump.
.050 cam button on front of cam to prevent cam walk.
9.600" 5/16" push rods from Smith Brothers. (516)388-8188-they can get any size for you.
Cylinder heads are Stg. 3's ported by myself. 355 cfm Intake 261cfm exhaust at .700" lift.
cc'd compression is 11.25 - Street friendly.
Deck height is .018"
Block is o-ringed and there is a receiver groove in the head to match
SCE .040" head gasket
2.25 int valves/1.80 exh. w/ 11/32 Chevy style stems
Valves sunk .030 and spring cups sunk .030 for roller spring use-
H-11 Lunati spring 74500. @200lbs seat pressure
TA Perf. 1.70 roller rockers-they rub roller cam spring no matter what you do- in the process of going to shaft mount T&D's. But TA's lasted 30+ passes without breaking. I got ride of them before they broke or caused other problems.
TA stg 3 dominator intake- ported by myself. Sides of intake filled to a tappered "v" shape to get rid of dead space in the intake and to direct better air-fuel flow into all the runners.
1250 HP holley Dominator-#80533-1
1" NOS Pro 2 Stage Nitrous plate system MOUNTED SIDEWAYS!!!-Any nitrous system mounted on a Buick intake should spray front to back into the runners of the intake and not in the "as sold" position spraying 1000lbs of nitrous into the walls of the intake. Stock plate spray position can cause vary lean cylinders and can lead to burnt pistons.
With a sideway mounted spray bar I've had no problems.
I spray 180 hp out of the hole and a 150hp second stg. as soon as the car comes back to earth or at least on its way down. :TU:
TA headers w/ 2 1/8" primary and a 4" collector- The collector I got from Schofield and welded on myself. TA collector is 3 1/2.
12" of pipe terminates into a 4" Hooker Straight through muffler.
In the process of stepping the headers to 2 1/4".
Transmission is a powerglide by Art Carr with a JW adapter ultra-bell
Rear end is a Ford 9" with 3.70 gears
Ladder Bars and Koni coil-overs holds it all together
Stock frame rails and wheel wells hold the 28*10.5" M/T Drag ET's
This set-up with 12 way adjustable QA 1's is good for consistant 1.32 60 ft. and a so far best of 5.65 at 122 mph in the 1/8th mi.- I run 1/4 when I get it dialed in but I mainly race Heads-up 1/8mi. Buick prefers the 1/8th since the motor will probably last a whole lot longer. I don't like the thought of a "brick" approaching 160 mph.
:eek2:
Fuel tank is a 12 gal. w/sending unit
Barry Grant 500 pump set at 30 lbs
#10 line carries the fuel into a 6 port Paxton regulator for the Nitrous then #8 out the other #10 paxton inlet to a Barry Grant 3 port which then terminates into the carb.
Nitrous fuel pressure is set at 5 1/2 lbs. with 4 3/4 lb safety cut off switch at the regulator should the fuel pressure to the nitrous drop.
Ignition is controled by a Digitial 7 MSD Progammable which controls the window switches for the nitrous, timing retards, start retards, Timing curve, launch curve. Its expensive but if you add up all the wiring and boxes you end up buying anyways, you could of had a programmable digital 7. :gt: I think thats about all I could brain dump at the moment. I'm open for any questions.
Nitrous is good, especially to the rpm limited Buicks. It only tears up parts if you don't know what your doing. Of coarse, doesn't that go with building any race motor? If you want to compete with non-Buick you got to do what they do to go fast. Nitrous is just the cheapest way to do it.



SPRAY IT AND LET IT FLY!!!:stmad: :stmad: :stmad:

[bobc455]

Buicks4speed,

Good to hear from another sprayer! There aren't many of us out here.

A couple questions for you-
- what spark plugs do you run?
- What size bottle do you run? (hopefully at least 15 #'s)
- Where is your pressure regulator- at the front or back of the car?
- What bottle pressure do you run?
- 11.25 compression = street friendly?!?!
- How much retard to you run vs. when you aren't spraying?

Sounds like a fun ride!

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org

[Adam Whitman]

Geez and I thought a 150 hp shot was fun on my mild stage 1. No times yet on the juice, but hopefully soon.

[buick535]

[QUOTE][i]
Thrust surface of roll cam on the block has a oiling hole drilled into the passenger lifter galley oil feed to prevent the roller cam from digging into the block.- It will dig into the block! For the same reason you have to run a bronze ditributor gear.
]

Sounds like a flyin Buick there if I ever heard of one.

Just curious, what size oil hole are you running to oil the rear of the cam hub. Jim Burek

[Buicks4Speed]

The oil hole I run behind the cam is about a .033" hole.

The spark plug I run- NGK Raceing spark plug - R5672A-8 This sprak plug has a softer alloy tip and will be the first thing to melt if you start running too lean. If you keep an eye on you spark plug after ever run you know to richen it up about a 1/4-1/2 lb. of fuel pressure if you happen to burn off a tip. I have yet to run it that lean though. Consider it an early warning device.

I run a 10# bottle and keep about 2 additional full ones with me.
I'd run two 10# bottles before I go to a #15. Just because of flow and pressure drop reasons.

My pressure regulator is on the fire wall but they recommend it to be even or in front of the fuel solinoids.

I try to have 1000-1050lbs. of pressure on the bottle when I pull up to the line.

I run NOS bottle with a high flow valve.

I run about 35 total timing and about 25 spraying 330hp. I have yet to optimize this setting.

Yes, street friendly 11.25 comp. With a big cam, aluminum heads, and a cool running motor premium gas work fine for me. _NO spray though, just cruzin'

[bobc455]

Buicks4Speed said:
I run a 10# bottle and keep about 2 additional full ones with me.
I'd run two 10# bottles before I go to a #15. Just because of flow and pressure drop reasons.



If/when you try for a while 1/4 mile run, I would recommend going to the two bottles. I've had problems at 200HP and higher where a single 10# bottle can't sustain pressure for the whole run and by the end I'm extremely rich (maybe a 200? PSI drop, even on a relatively full bottle). Of course I'm on the bottle for 11 seconds and you're on it for 8...

-Bob Cunningham
bobc@gnttype.org

[Buicks4Speed]

Here's a combination using a glide witha stock 1.76 gearset.

[10sec 455]

Thought I would bring this back up. Rick, looks like your about 950 hp to the rear wheels! Nice! :jd: Plan on running the full quarter?
Jeff

[jimmy]

I'd love to see some pictures of the inside of your intake. Mine is stock for now. A friend of mine wants to try a "turtle". I am going to send my spare intake off and have one fitted but not installed so he can try it first to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks, and good luck.

[Buicks4Speed]

TA stg 3 dominator intake- ported by myself. Sides of intake filled to a tappered "v" shape to get rid of dead space in the intake and to direct better air-fuel flow into all the runners.

Got rid of the filler. Can't say how it affected it on motor but it caused problems on nitrous when I used the second stage and slowed me down. :Do No: It seemed to limit the amount of nitrous the motor would take without "acting up"/needing special tuning......

Stg 3 heads are getting a little more work and titanium intake valves.

Going to a Cometic gasket.

Schubeck Roller-X lifters

Tapered pushrods

A cam with 112 L/C

T/A lifter girdle. Three of my plates either broke out completely or one side was loose.

I've been keeping my bottle at 950 psi.

4.30 gears because the old 9" converter slipped so bad. Gear change is still pending what it does with the 10" converter...

Changing over to a front mount 3 gal fuel cell next to a 22"x19" double pass radiator.

Cam ended up working best installed straight up at 108 ICL.


1/4 mi??? You just never know. :Brow: Depends if I can get the right converter. With the new block, definitley. But I enjoy making all the passes I want running 1/8 mi. running the same motor....

[JEFF STRUBE]

Rick doesnt Nos say to pull-out 2 degrees for ever 50HP AT 330HP wouldnt that be 13 degrees. I Pulled 4 degrees for 200 hp worked good with jetting square at 82 on a big shot. plate. I no the other brands go faster pulling more timming. Do you think thats because other brands have dome pistons. They say more timming pulled more power to a point.

[Buicks4Speed]

I was running 114 octane with my low compression so I took out 5-6 fro the first stage and 5-6 for the second stage. The first stage was a 180 HP shot, the second was anywhere in between a 150-180. Tried less and more timing but less would slow it down a hair so I left it. I had a problem with it running rich on the second stage so it needed the timing. More compression and a leaner running top end would have probably needed more timing taken out. Never had any signs of detonation, it was always a bit on the "Fat" side. Being nitrous is sprayed into a motor at a constant rate, the fuel curve gets messed up depending on how the V.E. is effected. So at lower rpm it may run a bit lean and at high rpm since the same nitrous is spread over more pistons, it can run more rich. THis is when you have to start doing air bleed adjustments and special tuning to a second stage that may be different from the first. All combinations are a little different and carbs respond differently.

Compression, port/intake volume, header size, cam selection, carb can all have an affect on on where Peak VE(volumetric efficiecy) can shift to on nitrous. Don't read too much into this and think it is all too complicated. Just understand that what one guy does and gets away with is not what you may be able to run. Just because my motor would take in a 300HP with the tune-up I ran doesn't mean another motor similar in size will. Always stay with the recommend base-line setting with nitrous and tune it from there. THis SHOULD keep you out of trouble. Just remember, a motor will only take so much. If you stop going faster with more and can't tune it to run any faster than accept the limit. You will have to change something in the combination to get it to take more nitrous.

Power bands will generally shift down with nitrous where you don't need it which is why I am not a fan of Buick strokers with nitrous. They work but not as well as a smaller motor. A bigger more can make the same power with less nitrous but with both having the same airflow limitations, the smaller motor will make more power in a more usable rpm range. When better heads come available, that should change. Looking forward to seeing all those nitroused Buick motors to see who come up with the best way of getting the most out if it. :TU: Hope to see you all next year spraying the guts out of your motors. :beer

[JEFF STRUBE]

Rick did you run 5.65 at 123mph in the 1/8 with 4.30gears or 3.70s. Your right lot of factors on the Torque Converters I like the setup where you get the best of both worlds. I dont like to have my car just setup for Nitrous i no cars like that are fast on the gas but with out the gas very slow its hard to get the best of both it like having a 8.5 to1 turbo motor with out a turbo

[Buicks4Speed]

Rick did you run 5.65 at 123mph in the 1/8 with 4.30gears or 3.70s. 4.30 The 3.70's killed the converter. The 9" Art Carr converter just slipped, then it would try to lock-up 40ft out and blow the tires off.



I dont like to have my car just setup for Nitrous. I know cars that are fast on the gas but with out the gas very slow its hard to get the best of both it like having a 8.5 to1 turbo motor with out a turbo

Over time I have changed on how I think a motor should be setup for nitrous. I have learned a lot and will keep learning. I think cam selection is where I have learned the most. Some put huge "Nitrous Cams" in that just don't work any better than a good motor cam. I think you need a little adjustment to get the most out of the nitrous but not something that is going to kill power.

Tighter converters, larger headers, compression change, a couple of extra degree of exhaust cam timing w/couple degrees wider L/C's. Several little changes, not just a big change with one thing like a cam. In all, you wouldn't kill a motor without the nitrous but it would be lazy out of the hole. But you have to remember if you set up a converter for 1000HP then don't expect it to be right for only 750HP. I ran my car ONLY ONE TIME without nitrous. I don't look to kill my car on motor but make it more efficient on nitrous.

Look at my motor combo, pretty much a N/A setup with a glide and lower compression. Nothing killer. I ran 6.40's at 112 on motor without the transbrake working and it stumbling out of the hole. I was running the th400 w/3.90's. It's only when you hit that dreaded wall that you need to look at changes to get a little more out of a combination. What you need to get it to take more nitrous with scrificing as little as possible N/A power. The old motor could have gone consistant 60's maybe a high 50 with some chassis work and the right converter but I needed more than a tenth so I am doing a few more changes. Just have to see if I take the right approach at it all. :Brow:

[staged2ny]

rick do you have any pics of the engine i'd like to see the way you have it set up ...mike :3gears:

[Buicks4Speed]

Here is a link to it. I am away from my computer so I can't post it.
http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=75780

It would be better to have the fuel regulators in front of the nitrous solenoids or even with it. It never gave me any problems. Just not ideal.
I managed to get the T&D plate mounted rockers to fit under the stock valve covers.