Roll Cage Ideas

[Big Pasta]

My brother is planning to add-on to the rollbar in his 70 Skylark (2dr sedan). What I am looking for are pics of rollcages (specifically, the halo/a-pillar bars, and forward strut bars (that run from the a-pillar bars through the firewall to the forward frame area). Any other pics may help as well. I just registered, and want to say that this page is great. Lots of great info and tech!

Thanks in advance.

Jay Spinella :3gears:

[GS Kubisch]

Jay
I'll get some pictures of my cage scanned and show what I have sometime over the weekend.

[Rick Henderson]

Gary,
I am getting ready to do mine soon, and would like some if you could please?

Also does anyone know how to put one in so you can keep the elbow rests in the doors? I would like to keep all of the stock stuff inside.

[Da Torquester.]

Ah come on Rick, just install a couple of pull straps off the door of a Volkswagon. :grin: :grin: :grin: They'll fit just fine. :grin: :grin: John

[71GS455]

Rick,

Todd's car appears to have kept the arm rests:
http://www.diecastmusclecars.com/gs2002.htm

[gotbuick]

71GS455 said:Rick,

Todd's car appears to have kept the arm rests:
http://www.diecastmusclecars.com/gs2002.htm

They don't look like the long armrests that typically come in the 70's. :Do No:

[gotbuick]

Rick Henderson said:Gary,
I am getting ready to do mine soon, and would like some if you could please?



Buy the 70 dragcar and the bar is FREE!!!

[71GS455]

gotbuick said:They don't look like the long armrests that typically come in the 70's. :Do No:

Rick's arms aren't very long anyhow. :puzzled:

[gotbuick]

71GS455 said:Rick's arms aren't very long anyhow. :puzzled:


:laugh: :laugh:

[GS Kubisch]

Thought I could do better.This is what I found...
Cage is all Chromoly,Ashtray and Glovebox still open,Arm rests are intact,windows can be rolled up&down with the door closed.
Forward strut bars go through under the dash through the firewall.
Rear seat has a ''halo'' bar over which in my mind is the only way to retain the rear seat.

[GS Kubisch]

another.....

[GS Kubisch]

PS
The pics were during construction....There is full carpet and dashpad in place.
Sure doesn't look like the interior in most 9 second cars.

[Rick Henderson]

71GS455 said:Rick's arms aren't very long anyhow. :puzzled:


I am glad you were talking about my arms!:pp

[grant455gs]

GS Kubisch said:PS
The pics were during construction....There is full carpet and dashpad in place.
Sure doesn't look like the interior in most 9 second cars.

Gary, when I saw the FIRST photo, I was thinking WTF?! My FAV GS with NO carpet?:af: :rant: :blast: :spank:


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Big Pasta]

Thanks Gary! My brother Tom's car is a drag radial street/strip car with no back seat or heater box, and we were trying to figure out how to locate the bars without disrupting the remaining interior pieces (headliner, dash, fuse block, etc.). A friend is going to be bending/welding the bars for us. Not to be a pain, but do you have any pics of the forward strut bars in the engine compartment (firewall area)? BTW: I like the way you set up your chassis - very clean!

[GS Kubisch]

Car is tucked away in my trailer for the winter..This is all I got.
Tried to brighten it up a bit.

Wow "Fav. GS"?
I like to hear that!

A little faster and it will be my favorite too.

Jay,Any pictures of your Brother's car?
There's a guy named Todd on here that's run some 10.30's w/ his 70 GS on Drag Radials.

[GS Kubisch]

oops..Here's the picture

[Big Pasta]

Here is a pic of my brother Tom's Skylark. I'll post more over the weekend.

[Big Pasta]

Thanks, that helps alot! We'll keep you posted on the progress. I have a post under the members rides section that explains the Buick-in-a Chevy and Chevy-in-a-Buick scenario.

[GS Kubisch]

Jay
If anybody understands,It would be me.
It's hard for to watch NSCA Real Street & PRO Pro Stock knowing I have a good car,Just not a 1020HP like alot of the 520+/- Chevy's running there.

[GS Kubisch]

Wow....assuming your Brother's car is 3710 w/driver.
He is either a big dude.Or there is some extra weight there.

Must be an ongoing shootout with the cars being within a hundredth of each other.
Probably confuses the hell out of people too.

[Steve Reynolds]

Here is a picture of my stock interior with the cage that goes around the stock 70 armrest. Sorry it is not a better picture, but it should give you an idea on how to go around the armrest while still having easy entrance and exits. Thanks, Steve

[gotbuick]

Steve Reynolds said:Here is a picture of my stock interior with the cage that goes around the stock 70 armrest. Sorry it is not a better picture, but it should give you an idea on how to go around the armrest while still having easy entrance and exits. Thanks, Steve

Steve,

You get the "clean interior" award for your drag car picture. I like it!

[Big Pasta]

Gary (or anyone else for that matter),

Tom's Buick has a glass bolt-on hood, glass bumpers w/lightened brackets, plastic seats, no back seat, crash bars removed from doors, heater box removed, aluminum radiator, some lightening holes, alum. heads on engine, qtr. window regulators removed/lexan qtr. windows, rear disc brakes (Ford 9"). Any other ideas where to take weight out (besides driver - weighs 230 lbs.)? Are we missing anything? This is still a street-driven car (which can be a broad definition nowadays - LOL).:Do No:

We can't figure out how it still weighs in that high with all that we've done to lighten it. I keep telling him the frame must have been dipped in lead at the factory. If anyone has any suggestions, let's hear 'em!

[GS Kubisch]

Aluminum driveshaft,lightweight brakes,tubular trans, crossmember...................Buick motor.....oops,that slipped.

My car is 3270 w/o me and the only f/glass is the lift off hood.
I've got the backseat,alot of exhaust,steel bumpers,etc.
Although some of my metal has been acid dipped but I'm not sure what that is worth

[Big Pasta]

Yeah, we figured the Buick motor suggestion would come up. LMAO He really fought with the idea of converting, but it came down to a dollars-and-sense thing. John Massoud is a good friend of ours, and really broke Tom's cojones about the swap. He's happy to see that at least for one Chevy-powered-Buick there's a Buick-powered-Chevy.

I'll have to find and post the pics of the BBB in my Monte. It looks (and performs) really nice! Now I just have to finish the cosmetics on the car. I think I may start looking for a 70-72 Skylark and set that up for racing.

[GS Kubisch]

more than anything,I'm just trying to make sense of the weight difference...At 3710 with a 230lb driver there is a 290lb difference as my car is 3420 w/ me and I'm a whopping 150lbs.
So there is a plus 210 lb difference to his car which has more fiberglass and no backseat.

I still think I can get another 30-50lbs out of my car too.
I know w/ the rack and pinion I lost some weight...Not sure what a BBC actually weighs but my motor has a girdle and is hard blok'd.
I stayed w/ a 12 bolt for weight reduction too.
I keep thinking of things after I respond,Just throwingout ideas.

[TuBBeD]

I notice they make fiberglass quarterpanels for some cars, at least chevys that I know of. If someone was to reproduce fiberglass quarters for the Buick A-Body, how much of a weight difference would that be from the steel quarterpanels? What also would be cool is a complete fiberglass, carbon fiber, or lightweight material shell of a '70-72 A-Body.

[rallye bob]

GS Kubisch said:Wow....assuming your Brother's car is 3710 w/driver.
He is either a big dude.Or there is some extra weight there.

Must be an ongoing shootout with the cars being within a hundredth of each other.
Probably confuses the hell out of people too.

Steve:
Are those (shoulder) down bars legal?
Very clean.

[rallye bob]

Sorry wrong quote. I was trying to quote Steve Reynolds' post

[Steve Reynolds]

Bob,
By the book I don't think they are legal. It's a real gray area according to most people I have talked to in the past. I have never been told by an tech inspector that there was anything wrong with them. Infact some of the tracks that I have gone to are VERY PICKY in the tech area, and no one has ever said anything about them.
I would say that for pure safety reasons, the bars should be straight. I put the 6 point roll bar in the car back in the mid 90's, in anticipation of running in the 11's. Then the car was 90% street driven and I wanted the convenience of the bent down tubes.
I come to the conclusion that if a car like mine (3750 lbs) goes on its top, bent or striaght down tubes is not going to make a great deal of difference. A full perimeter cage would be the only safe route. Since my car will go back to street use some day, I really don't want to cut it up any more than I have.
I guess when you race a street car there are always compromises to be made!

[rallye bob]

Steve:
Thanks for the reply. You are in the exact same place I am on this issue. That's why I asked.:beer

[Big Pasta]

After much deliberation (and a full season of racing), the cage is finally in! Thanks to all who replied with pics and ideas. We basically used Gary's car as a model. Tom also wanted to retain his inner wheelwells, and got his wish. Special thanks to our friend Jeff Scafidi of JRS Racecars for his time and effort bending and installing the cage. He did a real nice job keeping the cage tucked up tight and out of the way. Here are some pics. We added the forward cage section, as well as the forward strut bars to his existing rollbar (and rear support bars). Prior to this addition, Tom's car has run a best of 10.32 @ 128, with a 1.45 60' (M/T ET Street Radials and HR Parts-N-Stuff Anti-Rollbar, pump gas, just the way he drives it there).

[Big Pasta]

more pics

[Big Pasta]

still more pics

[Big Pasta]

even more pics

[Big Pasta]

last set

[david661]

I have a 8 points rollcage in my 72 skylark.
Both are solder directly on the floor and not on the chassis as specified in NHRA rules.

Is that a safe way or the cage must absolutly be solder to the frame.

My car pass all tech inspection when I race here in Europe!

Thanks
David

[Big Pasta]

If the car has a full frame, the rollbar (or rollcage) must attach directly to the frame. Only when the car does not have a full frame (unibody construction), can the bar/cage be welded to the floor. Also, if this method is used, there must be a 6"x6"x.125" (I think) plate welded to the floor, and the bar/cage welded to that.

Hope this helps!

[david661]

That's the rules for NHRA.
But it's about safety! what if I crash with a rollcga esolder to the body floor and not the frame?

Thanks

[John Stevens]

Big Pasta

Looking at the pictures you posted it appears that the tubes in your car are welded seam tubing. If so are you sure that this will cert. Last I knew that style tubing would not certify.

[Big Pasta]

We used DOM tubing. I went back through and didn't find any pics with the welded seam stuff. I think you may be seeing the black marker lines on the tubing. If there is a pic in particular, please let me know. Thanks!

[no car]

Big Pasta

Looking at the pictures you posted it appears that the tubes in your car are welded seam tubing. If so are you sure that this will cert. Last I knew that style tubing would not certify.

I've always wondered about the tubing in a cage. I used to hang out with some circle burners that ran pure stock and the rules called for at least part of the cage to be DOM. I don't think I knew of a car on the track with DOM tubing and I know most of the kits didn't have it?????

What's strange is that MOST drag cars never take a hit and with these guys, it could have happened any night! Almost no car went an entire season without some portion getting cut off and replaced!

Is it the price of the DOM or why weren't these kits coming with it?

Ken

[alan]

Last I knew that style tubing would not certify.

I need to know the details if someone knows, because if that's the case I need to change it now, while I can! :error:

[frtlnrbuick]

Big Pasta

Looking at the pictures you posted it appears that the tubes in your car are welded seam tubing. If so are you sure that this will cert. Last I knew that style tubing would not certify.

Looking at the NHRA rules, ERW should work fine. There is nothing that says DOM is required: Look Here (http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html)

Jim

[Dubuick]

Hey looks good !!!! :Brow:

[alan]

Looking at the NHRA rules, ERW should work fine. There is nothing that says DOM is required:

I've done a lot of searchng today and couldn't find anything that said one way or the other. I've never seen it in the rule book, either. I posted the question on another board today and this is the response I got;


You're right, not specified. Most cage kits use ERW (welded seam) and it will pass tech. If I had to guess I'd say 90% of the MS cars out there are ERW. Just make sure the seam is not on the OD of the bend sometimes it is brittle and will crack.

Here is the link to the thread;

http://www.promodifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=32935#post32935


Oh yeah. sorry about the thread-jack! Nice cage! :TU: :grin:

[John Stevens]

We used DOM tubing. I went back through and didn't find any pics with the welded seam stuff. I think you may be seeing the black marker lines on the tubing. If there is a pic in particular, please let me know. Thanks!

The marker lines must be what I was seeing, looked like welded pipe seams. I thought that roll bars/cages had to be DOM but can't locate it in writing so...............must be ok. By the way the cage looks good!

[Big Pasta]

My mistake! We did end up using some ERW on the cage (2 pieces I think). I checked with a local chassis builder (IHRA certified), and he confirmed that ERW will certify, the difference being (as Alan mentioned) the seam cannot be on the outside of the bend (prone to splitting). Sorry for the confusion!