71 Gs Grill, how much interest???

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hi all, I have a 71 GS Grill in driver condition, and I cant stand having it on the car cause I am afraid of driving it. With that said, I have decided to create a mold of the grill to reproduce one for myself, and wondered how much interest there woudl be for additional grills, and how much would they be worth to you? I want to be fair, but not do this for free either? The grill I am using is driver quality, and will be improved before taking the impression, I may laso make minor modifications to strengthen the original design, and will not have the rear mounting studs on the original mold. I may use the back of a Skylark Grill for that, cause mine ar ea mess.... not sure yet.... I know the grill is the elusive GS grill, and is the most expensive, but what truely is the demand for these things? I think the $2k they have been going for is outrageaous, and they only way that will get brought down is by a repro or soemthing decent is made. These grills will not be NOS, but will be resepctable for a driver. Like I said, its a work in progress, so let me know.... Of course, I will make 1 and see what everyone thinks.

Thanks,
-Jon

[leo455]

i would like 2

[RACEBUICKS]

WE have had this discussion many times it wont do anyone any good to rehash it again. Anyone want to pony up the $100 K to get started.

[71ConvtSkylark]

You are correct that the injection mold would be 100k, and no, I dont intend on going that route either. I am betting that there are more people out there like myself who arent looking for a show car, just a nice car, and my grills wont be an exact replica, but will be based on the original grill, and from teh front will be exact. I have another method of creating the mold here, and I honestly dont think it was very polite to dismiss me so quickly. I was just trying to do something for the community. I wont mention another word about it. Forget I brought it up.

-Jon

[RACEBUICKS]

Duane went thru this already with the cheaper avenue grill. He can explain it if you PM him. But after all he went thru to get them done he had issues when done. I will let him explain. The only way to build these would be to do them correctly. I have already done the math and looked into it. It just takes lots of money. There have been some who will be entertaining a grill from overseas so it can be done cheaper. (its already in the works I hear) We will see who ponies up the $$$ to do it ................

[bgs455]

Jon, DO IT!!!!, Make you're proto and take some pics. If it come out good, I'm in for one. Thanks.

[David Gramlow]

I wouldn't think it would hurt any for Jon to make up his prototype, as long as he can swing the cost for it. Sounds like a low cost plan to me. Will it sell? Depends on the quality and price, of course.

[RACEBUICKS]

David Gramlow said:I wouldn't think it would hurt any for Jon to make up his prototype, as long as he can swing the cost for it. Sounds like a low cost plan to me. Will it sell? Depends on the quality and price, of course.



Jon, DO IT!!!!, Make you're proto and take some pics. If it come out good, I'm in for one. Thanks.

Thats what Ive been saying we need to quit talking about it and just do it. Everyone just has been talking about it for years, noone has done it but Duane.

So lets get it done. :Smarty:

BTW I have no need for 71 grill myself but I might look at 71s to play with if parts were more available.

[BADDABUICK]

i need one jon.thank you for your effort.

[GS-XNR]

It seems to me that almost everyone with a 71 GS may need one eventually. I for one am not ready to pony up 2500 for one if I ever need one. I doubt my insurance company would either! Jon, thanks for taking the initiative. Perhaps you are the one who will finally bring this to fruition. Keep on keepin' on! :TU:
Harvey

[JR Wills]

I would RESPECTFULLY like to add my .02.
I can see both sides of the coin on this project. 1) costs Vs. 2) quality. There is a true market for both areas. 1) Purists will go for the item to keep their car in the absolute GREATEST condition, 2) BUT there are those who enjoy their cars as drivers, and local Shows who want to be proud of what they have, even it it is NOT a matching # Gold rated car, OR if they want to have their racecar look good, and it would be rediculous to put a $2500 grille in a car that is primarily a silhouette of a GS.
I see cars constantly in doing Appraisals, where expendatures exceed the actual value. There are places for BOTH side of the coin in our hobby/lives. The only grip I have is the fact that someone tries to put out an item of poor quality, and expects the highest dollar to be paid for something that is incorrect, or poorly manfactured.
If Jon can "replicate" a grill usable for Street/Race, for a reasonable figure, I say GO FOR IT. For those that want Perfection, WILL have to pay the price for "Reproduction" or Originality. 2 different areas.

[Steve Craig]

I have a '71 Skylark with a very good grill.
Don't need a GS grille, but, put me down for one anyway.
Love to see you succeed on this venture.
I'll always support the underdog in any race.
Looking for reasonable quality & a reasonable price.

Good luck with it & let me know when you're ready to ship.
I'll get the first one into Canada.

[ap1672]

Bought a few items from thepartspartsplace today. I asked the owner about a repo grill. He said he could start a production run if the demand was there. Call or email him, maybe he might start a new run.

www.thepartsplace.com (http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com)

630-365-1800

Allen
71 gs stage1 4speed

[David Gramlow]

Can't say for sure of course, but I would guess that "demand" for a place like TPP would mean a qty in the thousands for a run, rather than maybe a few hundred. Did you happen to ask how they quantify demand, and how many they would need to make to consider it feasible?

[71ConvtSkylark]

Thank you for the support in this project. I think what is greatly being overlooked here by those with negative things to say is I am making this low cost repro grill for myself, and am offerign the same to anyone else who would be interested. This is not a full time job for me, nor do I plan on making it that way. After I make a few grills, recoupe my investment, and hang onto a couple grills for myself I will most likely just sell the mold.

I am certain based on my research that I can obtain the quality I and others are looking for. However you cant please everybody all the time, and the grill I am making the mold from does have its flaws. I am doing this for myself, if someone wants to tag along and reep the benfits from this then I welcome your comments. If all your out to do is criticize and tell me why I can't do it, then keep your opinion to yourslef. I dont mean that in a nasty way, but if I listened everytime somebody told me soemthing was too hard, or not possible, I wouldn't have accomplished half the things I have done in my life. Set your own limitations, dont let others set them for you.

-Jon

[Eric]

Encourgement is the "other mother" of invention!
We all have Buicks,and have needs to create more possibilities
for the creation of new parts for our Buicks. There is something
that does not quite seem right in discouraging anyone from trying
to produce any part for that matter for our Buicks. Unchain the horse and let him run!

[71ConvtSkylark]

Put very well Eric! :beer

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Put Shirl down for one :Brow: :eek2: :TU:

[12lives]

Great! My only comment is if you are ging to the trouble to do it why not use a nice grill as the mold?

- Bill

[David Gramlow]

12lives said:Great! My only comment is if you are ging to the trouble to do it why not use a nice grill as the mold?

- Bill

I would imagine that getting one is easier said than done. I do believe it was stated that some fixing up was planned first on his grille, before making a mold.

If I had a perfect 71 grille, I would be hesitant to loan it out, depending on the nature of the proposed project.

[71ConvtSkylark]

I would love to have a perfect grill for the mold, but as DAvid said, getting one would be a challenge, and then theres the whole liability thing. My gril is close to perfect from the front, its teh studds on the back that have had soem glue work done to them. Since I will most likely destroy the paint on the grill when I mold it, I am going to re-do the fiberglass work on teh back side of teh grill to make it more respectable. It also has to be tappered correctly for the release.

-Jon

[70skylarkconvt]

Go Jon Go!!!!!!!! Goodluck on your venture. Maybe after this you can do a 70 GS grill?:Brow: But seriously, dont listen to the negative crap, do your thing man. Keep us updated!

-Josh

[71ConvtSkylark]

Ok, I just got back form the shop that is helping me with this venture, and I took him my grill, and we went through all the chemicals etc to re-make this thing. His is a long time caster, and said I should be able to get an easy 100 grills out of this mold.


I bought enough of the material to cast a couple small parts etc while I get used to the material. I will post my results. If anyone needs a particular part of the grill molded, like mesh etc, let me know. I am just practicing prior to making the mold. I have decided to make this mold stronger than the original also. THe studds will be extra thick, and so will that lower section that fits under the bumper. My make it feable like the original.

I do have one question I woudl like someone to answer, is there a patent law I shoudl be aware of? :Do No: Dont want to get in trouble here.

Will keep you updated...

-Jon

[flynbuick]

I started out to be a patent and trademark counsel because I had both an engineering and law degree which is a requirement to take the patent bar. I found it too boring for my taste 30 years ago. I am not your attorney nor would I consider myself up to date. With that disclaimer in mind:

A design patent expires after 14 years.


Conceivably Buick would have a cause of action for trade dress infringment if the design has acquired a secondary meaning. That is something other than just being able to be identified as a Buick grille. (Say something like the old shape of a glass coke bottle as a sign of purity and containing good tasting Coke a Cola.)


Even if Buick could show secondary meaning there is the defense of abandonment---which is in play if it can be shown that this grille design has not been used by Buick for 3 years or more and there is no intent shown by Buick to resume its use.

Having said all that if a GM wanted to take a even a longshot crack at someone over the remaking of any part along these lines there is nothing to stop them except their own sense of reason about their chances for prevailing.

In order to give myself some additional protection I would find a place on the item to put your company name and disclaim any affiliation with GM or Buick. I would not use any GM logo or reference especially a part number.

[71ConvtSkylark]

Wow Jim, thanks thats what I needed to hear. :beer

I am very anxious to use this stuff. You should have seen the detailed stuff this guy had remade. Way more complex than the GS grill. If this works out, I could concevably re-design and manufacture just about any part. Wow! :eek2:

[flynbuick]

No problem Jon. It was worth exactly what you paid for it.

[Rusty Davenport]

Put me in line for one when they are ready.And you might consider making them out of a more flexible plastic if you are trying to improve the orginal design.This would make them less prone to breakage.Wish I knew more about plastics to may be of help with some advice but I don't.

[71ConvtSkylark]

We did go over several different plastics from very brittle to vitually indestructable. I guess it will all matter what people want to pay for them, and how they turn out. Obviously the price varys accordingly depending on which plastic you use. I played around with the mold material this evening. Fun stuff! It takes about 16 hours to cure, so I wont pour the resin material for a couple days, but I molded a mounting stud, and the GS grill emblem just for kicks. I will post how they turned out. Thanks for all the interest. I am really having fun learning all this stuff about molding parts. I am even thinking about molding fiberglass GS hood scoops for all thos Skylark Hoods out there.... Think of the possibilities!

-Jon

[buick71gs]

Jon -

I really appreciate your enthusiasm and dedication in wanting to explore this avenue, along with investing your time and materials. Although it has been suggested you're working against odds, I remain optimistic that you will be able to turn out a product that others can use.

Count me in for at least one!.

Thanks,

Erik
'71 Buick GS 455 Convertible

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hey Erik, I too wondered abotu the feasibility of the project, but after playing with this new material, I have NO DOUBT that this grill will come to fruition. I have never worked with this type of material, and it is great stuff. Amazing release! I have drawn out the plans for making this mold, but as I mentioned before I have some construction work to do to the grill to make it. Not alot, of work, but I am a perfectionist, and if I am doing this, I am going to do it right. I have to tell you though, these materials ar enot cheap, so I am really hoping the board supports me once the grill is done. I am really having fun on this project. I thought abotu soemthing last night though..... where are we gonna get all these grill studs? Anyone remake them? I am going to re-make soem of the mesh this weekend as a test before I pour the mold. Heres som pictures of me playing with the material. I remade the GS Emblem for kicks, and below it you will see the stud that I re-molded to repair the GS grill. These parts are straight out of the mold, no clean up. Notice, the mold picked up all the flaws in the emblem. Gotta make this grill perfect before molding it.

-Jon

[71ConvtSkylark]

Well, THE grill is almost to a point where a mold can be poured. I have a really good feeling abotu the success of it. Do you have any idea how hard it was to take sadpaper, razorblades, and course files to this nicely painted GS grill? It was a difficult thing to do, but if the mold is gonna be a success, the grill has to be smooth. After I do a couple other mods, and some fabrication work to improve the new grills structure, I shoudl be able to pour the mold. Should be in a state of curing by next week. After pouring the mold, I cant make a grill for 3-5 days. Although the stuff is strong, it takes days for it to fully cure.

Improvements that I have made to the grill, is increasing the thickness of the material on the lower section that goes under the bumper, and adding more support to the top row of the grill. All the other rows have a square section that extens the whole width of the grill. The top bar supports are only half the width of the bar, and becomes very week. The grill on ebay right now is missing its top row. Its a good example as to why I am doing this. Also, th emounting studs on the sides of the grill will most likely be a solid mount for strength reasons. Its coming along....

-Jon

[12lives]

Cool Jon - Thanks!! :TU: :TU:

- Bill

[tdacton]

Jon,
Just wondering what help you have been given about venting the mold? Do you have a pressure tank large enough to evacuate all of the air out of the part as it is curing? How are you going to fill the part? A 2 part mix injected with tips? Are you worried about all of the voids or air holes needing to be "filled" after the part comes out of the tool? That is a large, large mold! Very very hard to fill with all of the different 90* angle changes and elevation changes. I'm sure you are getting some help from a molding expert. But I was just wanting to ask some questions.
Troy

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hey Troy, I am not going that High tech here, The air out of the mold wont be an issue, as this material is brushed on, and then poured. Its also very thin, and takes for ever to set up, so I have whitnessed that most of the air floats to the top, and escapes the mold, so any air in the mold will be behind the facing of the grill. I really do have it all worked out, and yes, I have been working with a mold expert, as when this works, he gets a lot of business. All the anlges and corners have been addressed. It just now a matter of getting the grill to the point where it can be molded. The only changes from the original grill will be from the back side, and will only be areas where there was once an absence of material, will now be solid(and stronger). From the front, you wont be able to tell its a repro.

-Jon

[BADDABUICK]

you the man jon keep up the good work.

[TimR]

Well we are hoping it works out for you and us. let us know how it goes, i would be interested in one as well...

I wouldn't worry about the studs...be easier to make it with just the area located, can alwaya drill and screw in studs later...

later
Tim

[Ken Warner]

If he's using the same resin I was looking into with a similar project to this a couple of years ago the resin is about the consistancy of whole milk or maybe cream. It flows and pours pretty durn well. Hope he can make this work and earn a few bucks!!!


regards

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hi guys, Just had a heart attack. Dropped the grill from the work bench.... :Dou: Cracked it, and had to do soem resin work to it, but were back in business, and it actually looks better than before. I will try be a little more careful from now on...... I am going back and forth between projects. Welding patch panels, and foming pieces for the grill, so it can release from the mold correctly. Just takes time for stuff to dry. The tricky part is using materials that will shape correctly, but can be removed from the original grill. I have one to two more areas to build, and then in the mold box it goes. I should be pouring the mold next weekend, or early in the following week. It looks very promising. I am thinking abotu making the grill out of soemthing less brittle than the factory stuff. I want it to give a little to be more forgiving to an minor error, or shrinkage in the part. I will probably for kicks, even make a rubber grill. :grin:

Keeping busy here....


-Jon

[Rusty Davenport]

OK Jon be carefull with that grille now,we are counting on you.

[71ConvtSkylark]

Ok, here is a picture of the gril in all its glory. I will be building the mold box this evening. Should pour nicely. THE mounting studs might get a littel tricky, but I may have to make them ahead of time, and set them in the plastic as I pour the mold. WIP on that part. However, the front of the grill should be virtually flawless. You and see all the work here, but a lot of the offset areas on teh backside fo the grill were filled with foam, and anything else I could find that would give me a flush release surface. Very anxious to pour the first mold. :pp

-Jon

[1972 Stage 1]

Looks great, Jon. If you are successful, I will buy two of them. Keep up the good work, and let us know how the mold works out.

Thanks again, and good luck!

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Jon , Shirl is counting on you too !:Brow:

Looking great !:TU: :TU:

[ap1672]

Thats a great looking core.
Good luck
Hope your successfull with the pour


AL


71 GS with 72 skylark grill:eek2:

[sixtynine462]

Jon,
WAY TO GO! I was thinking about doing the exact same thing with my 69 grille.
Are you able to cast in any type of steel or aluminum reinforcement? Seems like that could really add strength to a part.

[GStage1]

Wow, nice grill, wonder where you got that from?
Wow, you must know someone to get a grille in that good of condition! :Brow:

Hmmmm, forgot if you said I get 2 or 3 grills for the original 71 GS I sold you for an outrageous amount!:Do No:

[71ConvtSkylark]

You like that grill do ya? I will give you the "Cousins Discount" on one.... I woudl have liked to have had one assembled/poured before the meeting, but that woudl mean really busting my butt to pour one before Monday. It could happen though.... You shoudl stop by and check it out one of these days.

-Jon
Oh yeah, I did get the gril from George..... off ebay! :grin:

[GStage1]

.... You should stop by and check it out one of these days.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh, like I have any free time now????? I think you forgot I have a 70 Skylark body off in da werks(like that spelling, german version). Just bought another 70 GS455 last Sat. Have another 70 GS455 to be done. Let's see if I can do 3 body-off restos this year. LOL ! I think you need to change your name here to MoldMaster!:beer

Hopefully, you will be at the meeting on Mon and can show the crew your mold expertise! Maybe I will see you at the yard on Sat!

[71ConvtSkylark]

If the mold is in a state of being transported, I may bring it. I plan on puring the mold this week/weekend. If my stupid Dodge would stop demanding my time! :Dou: If its not one thing its another. You can do 3 body off restos.... you dont have a wife! :grin:

[GStage1]

If my stupid Dodge would stop demanding my time!

Hmmm, I know where there is a nice 85 Chevy full size like mine that needs an engine. Hmmm, I think you have a Buick 455 for it already!:Brow:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Yeah, I can see that gas bill on the commute to Westshore from Thonotosassa.... Not all of us can afford to buy 3 GS455's every month. If I get another ride it will be a GN. Ahhhhh

Jon
(moldmaster TBD..... )

[raresun]

Good luck on the first pour Jon. I think we all have fingers crossed for you. I know I'll put one on my 71 convertible

[GStage1]

Just want to let all interested Buick owners know that I will volunteer what little free time I have to make sure Jon does not drink the entire 12 pack he has ready for this project before he makes his first attempt. :Brow:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Of course I wont George... its just like Chili.. you add a little beer while your making it. I will be pouring the mold this weekend, the hardest part will be removing hte original grill form the mold. Then I will have to trim a couple areas wiht an exacto knife, or Georges sharp whit... both of which are rather dull..... :laugh:

Just Kidding....

-Jon

[Gary Ellenbeker]

Would this be the correct grill for a GSX also. If so I would be interested in one. Do you have an idea what you have to have for one.
Gary

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hi Gary, yes it woudl be the same grill fo rthe GSX, but just for your info, these are gonna be driver grills, and not exact repros. THe price is gonna depen on how much the materials end up costing, along with the difficulty in creating the part. THe studs are gonna hav eto be independently poured, and placed as a seperate step, or for ease may just be a square of material....so well see. If I had to guess, prob around $500 depending on how nice they turn out. Maybe less if they are easier to make. Well see..... Considering NOS grills, or anything in good shape is going for $1500-$2000, I think it s a low cost alternative. Lets wait to see how they turn out before we start haggling price though.

-Jon

[Gary Ellenbeker]

Thanks Jon
That gives me a ball park figure to decide if I should get the old GSX out of a 20 year storage or leave it there or let someone else play with it. It needs a lot of work.
Gary

[71ConvtSkylark]

Wow, you have a GSX! I woudl be an interested party shoudl you ever decide to part with it. How bad is it? Pics would be wonderful!

Thanks,
-Jon

[71GSX455-4SPD]

Gary Ellenbeker said:Thanks Jon
That gives me a ball park figure to decide if I should get the old GSX out of a 20 year storage or leave it there or let someone else play with it. It needs a lot of work.
Gary

Gary--

How about posting some info about your X in the Member's Rides section? Year, motor, tranny, color, options, etc....

Pictures, if you got 'em. Store a GSX for 20 years? Who would do such a thing??? (just kidding, believe me)

Welcome to the board!

[Gary Ellenbeker]

Ken
Here's the story 21 years ago I drove to town to get a carb rebuild kit for my 67 Firebird convert. Well when you go to town in a convert you have to cruise main street all two blocks of it. Yes I grew up on a farm. There in front of the redneck bar sat the X, I never saw one before. I was in pretty good shape then (I could run fast) so I went in and asked who's car that was. This half drunk kid said it was his so I asked him if he wanted to sell it he said no he would have to find a different car first (da) so I gave him my phone # told him to call when he was ready. A week later he called and said he bought a 78 t-bird (why) I got directions grabbed a freind and went there. First thing I saw was the ram air cleaner sitting next to a shed. opened the hood little chrome air cleaner and lots of plumbing. the original engine had been replaced with a 455 from a full sized buick who ever did it was not bright enough to move the motor mounts back they shortend the drive shaft and knocked a dent in the fire wall for the distributor. Went for a short ride the clutch just moved the car thouht I'll use that for a bargoning chip. Asked the kid what he wanted for it he said $800.00 I almost tore the pocket off my jeans trying to get my wallet out. Drove it home put in a new cluth. Then noticed it jumped out of 4th when you let of the gas. Tryed a burn out it wheel hoped big time. I think some one put different springs in it when they put the trailor hitch on. Then the linkage in side the trany fell apart lost 3rd & 4th drove it home parked it in the garage and never got time to get get back at it. Now that I found this web site my interest has been renewed I would apreciat any suggestions. Like do I cut out a chunk of the fire wall or hammer it out and putty it. I've been driving buicks longer than computors if some one can tell me how to get a picture to this web site I'll sent one.
Gary

[71ConvtSkylark]

Great sory Gary, if you send me a pic, I will post it for you. I woudl keep the car if I were you, or I woudl gladly give you the $800 you paid for it. :grin: I think you would really enjoy the car, and this website is soem of the best info and people you will find.

-Jon

[GStage1]

I am going to have to teach Jon how to use the "Spell Check" button on the bottom of the post screen. Sheesh, you think he could get some of the words spelled right some of the time??
:Brow:

[71ConvtSkylark]

I take that back, everyone but George is helpful on this site. Spell Check... we dont need no stinking spell check... :grin:

I wonder it thats why a lot of the code I write doesn't work? :Do No:

[71GSX455-4SPD]

Gary-

Thanks for the response, great story. I copied your post here (http://v8buick.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41762) to stick it in the members rides area so as not to take away from Jon's grill repro thread.

I'm sure a lot of people will be interested and will help you! My GSX was stored 1981 until 2003 and I got it going only with the help of all the great people on this board.

[71ConvtSkylark]

Ok, I just went and purchased all the materials to actually pour the mold. That was right after I took a second mortgage on my house to pay for them. Actually, the materials were right at $300, but its a one time shot, all or nothing, so I am reviewing all my strategies before pouring the mold. Looks very promising. Just put the PVA on teh grill tonight, which made it a lumnous green color. PVA is a release agent which will allow the master to release from the mold. It will then have to cure for a minimum of 3 days before I can pour my first grill. Its all ready to go, all I have to do is say go.... I should be able to pour tomorrow. Will let you all know how it turns out. Keep your fingers crossed.

-Jon

[71Stage1Conv4sp]

Go Jon Go.

Good luck.

[71ConvtSkylark]

Ok, its curing right now. I woudl like to say it all went as planned, but when was hte last time that REALLY happened? Had a couple snags that turned this hour long job into abotu a 6 hour task. I have one more area to set up, and then the mold is done. I can see a couple air bubbles, so a littel finish work may be needed when the grill is popped, but a set of files will do that no prob. The main part here is we will have an entire grill to work with, and not fragments of pieces and parts to put them together. I will post soem pics later. The mold aint pretty, but hopefully the grills that come out of it will be. Thats all that matters right?

-Jon

[BillMah52]

:TU: Ya Mon!!! :TU:
Hope this all works out Jon.
Thanks for the time and effort!!!
:beer

[71ConvtSkylark]

I AM TIRED!!!!!!!!!!! :sleep:

[sixtynine462]

Can't wait to see this!

[MGSCP]

Gary Ellenbeker said:Ken
a dent in the fire wall for the distributor.

:puzzled: :Do No: distributor in the rear!!!!! :shock: what engine is in that car ???????:Do No: :puzzled:

455 distributors are in the front !!!!! :Smarty:

[Gary Ellenbeker]

Ken
I put a floor jack under the GSX and wedged it out of the corner it was in. Opened the hood for the first time in 20 years, your right the distributor is in the front, my apologies the dent wasn't as bad as I remembered it looks like they rammed the bellhouseing into it when they swaped engines. The starter was locked up, put a rebuilt in, turned over no fire. Back up town points, condensor cap, rotor,The coil was dead back up town again. Put a few gallons of gas with isopropyl in it, gave the carb a little fired right up. There is no exaust system what so ever left. But it felt good to site in it and just listen to her rumble again. I drove it out side toke some pictures of a very dirty car, I'll try to post them later today ar tomorrow I let it idle while I moved the boat and lots of other stuff around to get it into the shop. Soon a crowd started to gather around it. I don't know were all these people came from I live out in the country. Next weekend I give it a bath and take the trany out to fix.
Gary

[sixtynine462]

I hope you primed the oil pump first! Did it have oil pressure?

[70skylarkconvt]

Your on the home stretch Jon, finish up strong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm rootin for ya!

[71ConvtSkylark]

Man, getting the master out o f the mold is really hard. Some of the material leaked through sealed areas, so its very intense getting it out. I expected some of this, and the 50 degree temp this AM probably isn't helping matters. Only had a couple hours to get it out of th ebox, and try to release the mold. THe hard part is releasing all the mesh. Everywhere else has come free, but the mesh is really in there. Gonna put the mold in the sun tomorrow morning, and see if I can get it a littel softer, so it has more "squish room" Technical term..... What has released looks absolutely awesome!!! I think I could have used a littel more release material in the mesh area. Live and learn. It will come out, it will jsut require some muscle to do it.

Thanks,
-Jon

[GStage1]

WOW, hardly any typo/spelling errors. Jon is on a roll !

Next time you use mold release you need to spray from all four sides to make sure you get all sides of the little squares.

[71ConvtSkylark]

I used sinelube 305 I think its called. There is a lot of pouris material inside that mesh area, so its holding strong. I had to come to work of all the darn things! I will tackle it some more this week. I knew getting the master out of the mold was gonna be a challenge. After that, the other pours should be less mess.

-Jon

Ironically, with my hands being so tired, I thought there would have been more errors. Thanks for the encouragement Dad! :pp

[GStage1]

Ok, Jon, no need to be a smarty pants. :moonu:

If you keep that up, next time I see you at the yard I am going to give you a swift kick in the pants and then let all the air out of your tires!:eek2: :laugh:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Theres nothing swift about you... :TU: :grin:

HAHAHA!

[Nitro71455]

WOW......

Where have I been?

GO Jon GO is right... Put me in line for one of those as well.... :TU:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Ha! I know where I have been...... in my garage trying to get this right! Just talked to the mold expert, and he gave me a couple tips on releasing hte master..... try again. Gosh, I want to pour this mold so bad! Have to be patient.... pull too hard, and the mold is trash.

[GStage1]

I think Jon has been sniffing the mold release. Hmmm, he seems to be coming up with some good excuses on his delays. :Brow:

I think I am going to start writing these down so when he starts working on his Skylark convertible and asks me for help, I am going to recite them to him. :grin:

Oh, almost forgot, Jon, helps to drink the 12 pack after you do some real work not before!:beer

[70skylarkconvt]

LOL, well maybe its Light beer, less filling ya know, save some room to sniff the release. Just Kiddin. George your right those are some good excuses, I'm gonna write em down too, so when I run into trouble(constantly:af: ) I can just use one!

[71ConvtSkylark]

The dog ate my mold! Locusts! Wild Fires!!!! CATS AND DOGS LIVING TOGETHER IN HARMONY!!!!! :moonu: :laugh:

2 weeks.... I have been making a grill in two weeks... man you guys are impatient! :pp If I didn't have to spend so much time proof reading my posts for George...... LOCUSTS!!! WILDFIRES!!!

-Jon

[GStage1]

Ok, enough of Jon's BS, I am going to start baggin it and selling it for fertilizer. Hmmm, I think I am going to visit Jon and take some pics of this "hoax" he has going on. Will post pics here late Saturday.:Brow:

I think I will offer my air chisel to break???:eek2: that grill from the mold he supposedly has made??????:Do No:

Oh, yes, won't forget to bring a 12 pack to celebrate this "hoax" conclusion, one way or the other!:beer

[71ConvtSkylark]

Well, arent you just the man of many talents George.... fertilizer recylcer. Good career choice! :laugh: Your welcome to stop by, but I will most likely to put you to work if you do, so pack a lunch. Heres a pic of my fictitious grill mold. Notice, I am making some progress in removing the mold form the mesh. I will SO use more release agent next time. This is a total pain!

-Jon

[GStage1]

Wow, looks like you have a 70-2 Buick behind that grill!:grin:

I think you should sell it to me for $1000 so you can put some more money towards your "hoax" grill project. :laugh:

[buickbonehead]

This is starting to sound like Monty Python's "Search for the Holy Grill (Grail)"

[BillMah52]

Jon,
Did your "mold expert" tell you to try a hair dryer to release the master? Mild heat to soften the mold.
Hmmmmmmmmm?

Be very, very patient!!!
Especially with George!

Good Luck!!

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hey Bill, heat does not effect this material. I did soak it in hot water to try and remove some of the release agent(water soluable). That helped. The rest of it is just pulling at the mold, and cutting the material away from the grill. Its very aggrivating, but its taking the abuse! Strong stuff! Flexible to 360 degrees too. It will come out... just taking time. When I pour the grill though, it will get SOAKED in release agent before.

-Jon

George is just a bitter old man....... no need for patience.... just pitty....:laugh:

[70skylarkconvt]

I do have to say this is one of the highlights of my day seeing whats going on next in this "project". But what does that say for me?:Do No: Oh well, whatchya gonna do in college but drink beer and waste time. :beer

-Josh

[GStage1]

Jon does not need to use a hair dryer or heat gun because Jon is full of hot air!:af:

What Jon needs is a supervisor! I am going to offer my services for FREE !:laugh:

I already have my supervisor equipment together: 48qt cooler, 2 cases of beer, beach chair, sunglasses, sun block (gonna be another scorcher here on Sat), portable fan.

The automotive master must teach lil grasshopper the proper technique on mold creation, mold release application, new part removal, quality control, salesmanship and customer service. If you ever meet this guy in person, you will understand what I mean!:beer

Ok, let's stop wasting Jon's time reading these posts so he can work on finishing the 12 pack he just started!:TU:

[flynbuick]

George

Do not forget your megaphone.

[Stagedcoach71]

flynbuick said:George

Do not forget your megaphone.

And police whistle!:pp

GO GO GOOOO!:TU:

[GStage1]

If we keep this up, Jon just may quit on us! NOT!:Dou:

I will see if I can get some pics on Sat. I am heading his way and will do some covert operations to actually catch this guy working!
I have heard some stories but no one has actually seen this guy do any kind of work.:Smarty:

Rumor has it he has never put the top up on his 71 Skylark conv because he can't figure out how to operate the top!:laugh:

I tried to get Jon to buy a 455 from a 73 Electra but he didn't want to get his "office hands" dirty!:Brow:

Ok, I have to stop now or I am really going to get Jon mad!:spank:

[GS Dude]

Great news! Put me down for one or two.

[71ConvtSkylark]

Wow, a lot of activity on this thread today! Its ashame that George has no life and has to live vicariously through mine. Being that he is such the mold master, its a wonder he hasn't done this project himself already??? Talk about hot air..... gonna need a wind breaker on Sat if he stops by..... :Do No: I think George would be a great supervisor...... you know, the guy that orders everyone around but actually does NO real work, and takes all the credit for your sweat and tears? Your the man for that one. Gosh, we sound like an old married couple???? Hold me...... :laugh:

-Jon

P.S. I didn't buy the 455, cause it wouldn't go with the rest of the decor in my future sons room. Hes due on June 29th.... :beer

[Marco]

71ConvtSkylark said:P.S. I didn't buy the 455, cause it wouldn't go with the rest of the decor in my future sons room. Hes due on June 29th.... :beer

Congratulations :beer

...parenthood will make you think this grille separation task is really easy... :bglasses:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Thanks! I am looking forward to it. I know wy wife is. I hope the babies mine. :laugh: We decorated his room in cars..... go figure! Gave him a welder and a paint gun to play with in the crib. Gotta get him comfortable using these tools. :puzzled:

[GStage1]

Ok, I have to admit, I don't think Jon has any idea what he is doing. I think he is very good at drinking beer. So, when I got there, I decided to take a pic. Here is what I found. I thought the only work he ever does is to kill 12 packs. Well, from the looks of the empty beer bottles, Jon has been working very, very hard!:beer

Hmmmm, I would not be holding your breath waiting for him to finish this grill project. :eek2:

I don't think he got much done today!

:Brow:

[GStage1]

Well, since I made the drive to his place, about an 1 hr each way. I figured I might as well get some parts for my efforts. Wow, I don't think Jon will notice anything missing. He had his beer googles on so we will see what happens!:beer

[GStage1]

Well, I think Jon awoke and finally did some "real" work. He is making some good progress. His mold fabrication for a first-timer is excellent!:TU:

The mold material picks up all the details and is very flexible. This should be very interesting! I learned a lot from the Mold Master!:Smarty:

Oh yes, almost forgot, the hoax is over! This is for real!:laugh:

[GStage1]

Here is another pic of the flexible mold. I can't wait to see when Jon makes his first grille. He also made improvements to the mouting bosses for the metal studs. This should be interesting!:grin:

[71ConvtSkylark]

You know, I was in the shower, minding my own business, and I look out the window and theres George wth his camera...... Pervert. Youd think he was taking pictures of my wife, or trying to get a couple thrills. Found him lying down next to my Buick..... taking pictures. Geesh!

Actually, it was cool showing off my grill mold. Well see how it goes on the pour, but it has really come far since the last post. Should have the grill released form teh mold here shortly. With this new material, I should be able to reproduce just about any part for the Buicks, including the GS hood scoops inserts, and actually, George and I were talking about reproducing the scoops for the GS hood to turn all the Skylark hoods into GS hoods.

Thanks yall for your interest.

The shot of me, the beer, and the grill turned out great!

To be continued.....

-Jon

[70skylarkconvt]

If you do the GS scoops count me down for a pair. Keep up the goodwork. Was that Bud Light I saw?????????????? High roller I guess, in school we get stuck w/Natty Light:mad:

[MGSCP]

W :eek2: W GREAT JOB JON :beer :TU:

BUT WHAT'S SHOCKING TO ME :shock: :puzzled: :Do No: Is all I've heard for the past few years is it cost 50.000-100.000 and a bunch of commitments just get the project started.......what gives:puzzled: :Do No: :shock:

now Jon is doing it in his garage for a few hundreds what gives :shock: :shock: :shock: way too pick up the dropped ball and run with it Jon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! truly amazing :rant:

I'll take a 69 Gs grill when you get around too it infact i might take a 71 just to help you out :beer :bglasses: :TU:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Well, its no picnic believe me! But hopefull, this release trouble was from an oversight on my part. Lets just hope the ones that follow will be easy! I dont know if I would ask so much why it hasn't been done before, cause the chem that I used has not been out very long. It may not be 50k, but $350-$400 is a hard chunck of money to lay down for a "hope so". I will be curiouse to see how this pours. I still have a littel work to do to get the mold level, and sitting aquare. Then I will pour one and well see how it goes. Heres a picture of teh mold entirely out of its master. It has a couple flaws that can be corrected following the pour wiht a file, or before... havent decided yet.

More to come..
-Jon

[71ConvtSkylark]

Didn't mean to get my nast tow in the picture.. ignore it. :grin:

Hers another..

[Nitro71455]

Very COOL!!!!

Man........ how long before you poor the proto type??

[71ConvtSkylark]

Not sure about the prototype yet... Still have some clean up to do to the mold with an exacto knife. I would say in about a week or so.... I need to walk away from it right now, I am really burned out from trying to release it from the grill. Dont want to get frustrated you know? Plus, need to find a place in the garage to actually pour the mold.

Thanks for the compliment.

-Jon

[Chris Lott]

For those of you asking why it hasn't been done before, it has. Duane from here on the board did them a few years ago. He has posted about it here before, but I believe the gist of it was that all he got were people complaining because the grill was resin and not plastic, not original, etc etc. Maybe now that the grills are so much harder to find, people will give them a chance. I'd rather have a resin grill on my car than none at all. :beer

BTW, lookin good Jon.:TU:

[12lives]

Looking great! With the mold so flexible, how will you keep it stiff for the pour? Ar you making a stand to hold it at the right angle?

[12lives]

Looking great! With the mold so flexible, how will you keep it stiff for the pour? Ar you making a stand to hold it at the right angle?

[TimR]

BUT WHAT'S SHOCKING TO ME :shock: :puzzled: :Do No: Is all I've heard for the past few years is it cost 50.000-100.000 and a bunch of commitments just get the project started.......what gives:puzzled: :Do No: :shock:


As mentioned further down, as technology allows some newer ways of doing things, perhaps we will get our pieces. Also, there will be lots of guys who won't want them because they are resin or whatever...but it certianly allows the more "normal" resoration enthusiast a chance.....as long as they are straight and look-more or less- correct, they should be usable.

Later
Tim

[71ConvtSkylark]

You hi tthe nail on the head Tim! This project started out not to make axact replicas of the grill, although I could, but to make something that looks "good" on a normal restoration. Tim is correct that there are some people who are die hard original, and would have no use for these grills. Let them pay the $2000. I however, want something that looks nice, and is structurally stronger.

To answer the question about keeping the mold stright for the pour, before the mold was removed form the box, a foam impression was made of the backside of the mold. This will make a level and strong support area for the grill to rest on when flipped on the other side. Its a sorta craftmatic adjustable grill.... Since its raining today, I will probably do some of the clean up tonight.

-Jon

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Looking real good ! :laugh: :TU:


:3gears:

[1971GSFAN]

Looks real good, I think I might have to put my spare 71 grill up for sale, hang the original on the wall and put one of yours in the hole! :grin: :TU: !!

[Stevo]

Jon,
Do you accept credit cards :pp maybe down the road, or maybe I tell my wife the 500.00 is for the special mufler bearing the car needs:rant: . My 71 is a work in progress, like reading books or doing cross stitch:laugh: . Anywho if I don't make it to the nationals I would like to get one before you mold goes kaput. I gotta say you might have a new side job with the molds, great job in follow through what you set out to do regaurdless of the obstacles:beer .



Steve Johnson
71GS
work in progress

BTW Thanks to George and his pleathera of knowledge.

[Stevo]

I forgot to ask? Jon when will you be making a mold on some 71 tail lenses? I let you finish one huge project at a time lol.

Steve Johnson

[71ConvtSkylark]

Havent forgetten bout you all... I have been doing much trim work to the mold, and some stuff to make the release easier. I should be getting to the pour sometime this weekend, or early next week.

-Jon

[70skylarkconvt]

Cool keep it goin!

[Nitro71455]

Any New News Jon?

[71ConvtSkylark]

Yeah, I will be pouring the grill this week. Ran into some trouble with getting the grill to sit level. The idea was to have the mold sit on a foam backing, but the weight of the mold kept squashing the foam, and it would get distorted. So....... I built a box out of wood, and filled it with sand, and layed the grill in the box, and let the sand support it where it needs to be supported. I would have poured it this weekend, but couldn't get to the store in time to get the plastic material. Soon...... I hope.

-Jon

[buickman70]

Chris Lott said:For those of you asking why it hasn't been done before, it has. Duane from here on the board did them a few years ago. He has posted about it here before, but I believe the gist of it was that all he got were people complaining because the grill was resin and not plastic, not original, etc etc. Maybe now that the grills are so much harder to find, people will give them a chance. I'd rather have a resin grill on my car than none at all. :beer

BTW, lookin good Jon.:TU:

I would be willing to bet GM wouldn't have cared whether it was resin or plastic back in '71. Cost and quality are what GM cares about, so if a product can be made cheaper and better, it shouldn't matter to most people.

[national86]

I have already started on the GS hood scoops , I have the drivers side mold done and one scoop done in fiberglass. I still need to make a mold of the other side. I will be working on finishing it tomorrow and will post some picture if anybody would like to see it.

[BillMah52]

Post away!!
Anybody involved in repro parts for our cars is more than welcome to post pictures of their progress.
We LOVE to see them!!!!:TU:

[71ConvtSkylark]

Hey, for everyone who subscribed to this thread, I posted another one wiht the results. I have poured teh first grill, and although it had its flaws, it was a good first effort. Heres the pic: I will be pouring a better run this week. Stay tuned.

-Jon

[BillMah52]

Jon,
I see you lost a few pieces trying to break the mold.
Great results for the first effort.
Your almost there!!! :TU:

[Nitro71455]

Very COOL Jon

Looks like a GREAT first go to me!!!! Let me know when I can send you some money for one that's up to snuff :Brow:

[buickman70]

Looks very promising, now I hope you have plans to do a 70 grille :beer

[grannys70skylrk]

As a new member I was wondering if anyone has done a '70 grille?

[Chris Lott]

supposedly the GSCA (or someone with them) has a '70 GS grill on the way... Although this one should be injection molded plastic instead of resin.

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Looking Great !:Brow: Waiting ............:Brow: :eek2: :TU:

[bgs455]

What's the latest on this project? Any guesstamate on the price?

[GStage1]

Post has continued on another thread under Resto Parts.
All details are there.

[bignastyGS]

Any luck on the GSX grille emblems??? Just patiently waiting...and so is Mike G...
Pat

[bignastyGS]

Whatever happened to this?? or my GSX repro emblem???