Rice Vs Lamborghini Diablo

[mechacode]

This isn't mine, it's kind of old and it's not about buicks but is it freaking funny!

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145896

For those that don't want to read it, this guy is sitting at a stoplight behind a lamborghini and a rice popper flies up next to him and wants to race..

[CrazySonoran]

I followed that link and found a TT Supra that is 800+ HP and 683 ft lbs of torque and at a little less boost and no NOS only runs low 11's at 140 or so.. cant weigh very much... isnt that a little slow for that much power???? Just looked at the timeslips for the Buicks and a 775 rwhp 65 GS runs the 1/4 in the high 8's at 150 mph.... and I GARONTEE the Buick outweighs the Supra but a ton (almost literally).

BTW.. I checked... a Diablo will run the quarter in 11.8 seconds. Heck a McLaren F1 only runs it in 11.1 seconds... Um.. just had a funny thought... take a stout GS and put it side by side with a McLaren or Diablo and watch people's :jd:
:shock: :laugh: :grin:

[ropelie]

yeah, but at the end of the 1/4 the McLaren hangs a 90 degree turn

[MR.BUICK]

The stupidity of ricers is amazing. A ricer.....take on a lamborghini.....and a Diablo at that!?!?!?!?.......yeah, right!:rolleyes: The guy in the Lambo could've gave the ricer a 1 mile head start and then blow past him! There is a Bugatti on their too that a guy actually likes....says it has 1000 hp. Does 200 more HP count as alot on a buick 573 with 1200 HP? :Do No:
Some ricers can be amazing, I admit, but most of them are just plain puny.

-Cody

[CrazySonoran]

ropelie said:yeah, but at the end of the 1/4 the McLaren hangs a 90 degree turn

True... and the Buick takes 5 miles to stop! :shock:

[MD_76_LIMITED]

Wow...that thread was from 2002.

[mechacode]

MD_76_LIMITED said:Wow...that thread was from 2002.

I said it was kinda old, lol.

[lifeat26psi]

CrazySonoran said:I followed that link and found a TT Supra that is 800+ HP and 683 ft lbs of torque and at a little less boost and no NOS only runs low 11's at 140 or so.. cant weigh very much... isnt that a little slow for that much power????

a supra only makes that power for a couple rpm, which is why they call them dyno queens.
they might make 800 horse at 7000rpm, but look how much power they make in the rest of the powerband, its laughable.

[CrazySonoran]

Yeah, I know.... no power at idle up to about 2000 rpm, then fair power from there until the turbo boost gets to 25 lbs, then hold on! Not like our beloved Buicks.... Hold on from 500-6000 rpm! Can you say "flat torque curve"????

[lifeat26psi]

i have an 87 turbo supra *modded, that im not too proud of, cause for some odd reason i used to have a large head about it. Then i started to question why supras dont do wheel lifts.....
oh yeah, they dont have torque.

[ATX]

Supras have their place in racing... and that is roll racing. I have had the pleasure of seeing some of the fastest Supras out there... I believe we have over a dozen 600+hp Supras in Austin alone. From a stop they have traction problems because of the independant suspension, but once going... they GO! They aren't as light as many of you think they are, about 3600lbs. Oh, and they can stop and turn as well! There are videos out there of some of the Austin Supras running sport bikes (including the 1300cc Hayabusa) let me know if you want links!

[ATX]

I also know of a Civic in Houston that can run with modded Vipers... video proof available. Yeah, it isn't practical... but there are some SICK 4cyl cars out there that are really sleepers!

[CrazySonoran]

Just watch 'The Fast and the Furious' if you want to see fast rice. For some reason the last time I watched that movie (two nights ago) I was humming the Rice-a-roni jingle all through the entire movie....

[MR.BUICK]

Only problem with fast and furious and 2 fast 2 furious, every stupid ricer on the street thinks they can do what was done in that movie!:af: They find out when they mess with the "bigger-boys" that they can't really do what was done in the 2 movies:Smarty: There is some pretty amazing rice cars and porsches, lamborghinis, and whatnot that are quite impressing. The porsches and lamborghinis come natural with speed, not with NOS spray. Lambo's and porsches can show younger ricers what "speed" is all about.:TU:

-Cody

[ATX]

Uhhhh, that movie ruined import racing. Half of all swaped motor Civics could burn most of the Buicks on here. I don't understand how you guys knock hp vs weight. I am no scientist... but it works! Take a 1500lb CRX and put a 200hp (stock) H22 Prelude motor in and bye bye most everyone. Add FI and see you later! Why is everyone against fast cars? Have you chased a CIVIC lately?

[mechacode]

ATX said:Uhhhh, that movie ruined import racing. Half of all swaped motor Civics could burn most of the on Buicks on here. I don't understand how you guys knock hp vs weight. I am no scientist... but it works! Take a 1500lb CRX and put a 200hp (stock) H22 Prelude motor in and bye bye most everyone. Add FI and see you later! Why is everyone against fast cars? Have you chased a CIVIC lately?

Nobody here is against a *real* car that runs numbers and looks even slightly good. What we're against is the rice, the huge wings, the stock motors, the "dude, I upgraded everything, the stereo, the rims, the body kit"..."what about the motor?"..."What's a motor??" kind of guys/girls. :spank:

[MR.BUICK]

ATX said:Uhhhh, that movie ruined import racing. Half of all swaped motor Civics could burn most of the on Buicks on here. I don't understand how you guys knock hp vs weight. I am no scientist... but it works! Take a 1500lb CRX and put a 200hp (stock) H22 Prelude motor in and bye bye most everyone. Add FI and see you later! Why is everyone against fast cars? Have you chased a CIVIC lately?

Four words for ya. Alot, but not all!!!!!:eek2: :jd: :3gears:

-Cody

[GoldBoattail455]

ATX said:Have you chased a CIVIC lately?

No it's more like the civic was Chasing me! :laugh: :laugh:

[MR.BUICK]

GoldBoattail455 said:No it's more like the civic was Chasing me! :laugh: :laugh:

LOL!:laugh:

Probably didn't have enough power to catch up to that 455 either with-out using some of it's cheater spray(NOS, witch actually gives ricers all their power to begin with).

-Cody:grin:

[GoldBoattail455]

Did you Know civic is an antonym for POWER? :laugh:

[MR.BUICK]

GoldBoattail455 said:Did you Know civic is an antonym for POWER? :laugh:

If that's an ANTONYM for POWER, then what does power mean, anyways?:Do No: :moonu: Only with the biggest, fullest, most addful HP NOS would Civic hold it's ANTONYM!:laugh:

-Cody

[ATX]

MR.BUICK said:LOL!:laugh:

Probably didn't have enough power to catch up to that 455 either with-out using some of it's cheater spray(NOS, witch actually gives ricers all their power to begin with).

-Cody:grin:

Cheater spray? I guess you are still talking about The Fast and the Furious... most fast Imports do not use nitrous. They are generally turbocharged.

NOS giving all the power? The Fastest ALL MOTOR (no power adder) Honda runs a 10.35 quarter mile...:Brow:

[GoldBoattail455]

I might remind you that most Ricers are running around with fully loaded, and optioned cars. Espicially Acuras. They have massive heavy sound systems, a/c, ridiculous rims, power windows and lock, radio, and seat five. And don't tell me about that carbon fiber stuff.

The only foreign car that can run with the big boys is the Rally bread Subaru WRX.

The only real reason ricers like there cars is because they get to hold down the gas for a LOOOOOONG time. :laugh: With a buick you just have to tap the gas and your already speeding.

[John Eberly]

Latest Motor Trend has a comparison between a Lamborgini Gallardo and a Ford Focus w/ a 5 liter mod motor transplant.

The Focus stayed even or beat the fancy pants exotic car in almost every category!

Hot Rods rule (even if they are $100k factory hot rods)

[ATX]

GoldBoattail455 said:I might remind you that most Ricers are running around with fully loaded, and optioned cars. Espicially Acuras. They have massive heavy sound systems, a/c, ridiculous rims, power windows and lock, radio, and seat five. And don't tell me about that carbon fiber stuff.

The only foreign car that can run with the big boys is the Rally bread Subaru WRX.

Only the WRX? How about the...
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Mitsubishi Evolution 8
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Nissan 300ZX
Nissan Skyline
Nissan 240SX
Toyota Supra
Toyota MR2
Mazda RX-7

That is Japan ALONE and I left out many, not to mention all the econo cars that you can mod. Should I mention some other foreign cars... like ones made in Italy or Germany? Porsche, Ferrari, Buggati, Lamborghini, Mclaren, BMW....:Dou:

[GoldBoattail455]

ATX said:Only the WRX? How about the...
Mitsubishi Eclipse
Mitsubishi Evolution 8
Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4
Nissan 300ZX
Nissan Skyline
Nissan 240SX
Toyota Supra
Toyota MR2
Mazda RX-7

That is Japan ALONE and I left out many, not to mention all the econo cars that you can mod. Should I mention some other foreign cars... like ones made in Italy or Germany? Porsche, Ferrari, Buggati, Lamborghini, Mclaren, BMW....:Dou:

Let me get one thing striaght. The cars from europe arent Rice by any means.

I've driven a Eclipse, and man do you need a lead foot. the rest are still rice, doesnt mean there fast. Those Japanese cars are slow.

If you put your Japanese cars up against a new American Muscle, you'd see that the American Muscle would win.

A T/A, GT, XLR, GTO, Vette, Magnum, Mustang or T-Bird can smoke those tin cans. :3gears:

[ATX]

Nearly every car I listed runs 13's STOCK.

[MR.BUICK]

GoldBoattail455 said:Let me get one thing striaght. The cars from europe arent Rice by any means.

I've driven a Eclipse, and man do you need a lead foot. the rest are still rice, doesnt mean there fast. Those Japanese cars are slow.

If you put your Japanese cars up against a new American Muscle, you'd see that the American Muscle would win.

A T/A, GT, XLR, GTO, Vette, Magnum, Mustang or T-Bird can smoke those tin cans. :3gears:

You forgot a muscle car or so....GS,GSX,Stage 1, rare factory Stage 2 car, GN, GNX, regal GS, regal GS Stage 1, Black-hawk(concept, but fast, needs to be a production car), forgot the ford GT-40, and I could also go on, as I have only listed a few MUSCLE cars:Dou:

-Cody

[MR.BUICK]

:grin:

[GoldBoattail455]

Not really, the MR2 runs 16.2, and the 350z runs 14.3. Pretty sad.



A Buick Rainier SUV runs 15.9, better than the MR2. :laugh:

A Chevy Silverado SS runs 14.8 :laugh: another Truck better than the MR2!

This Caddy XLR runs 14.2. :laugh:

14.0 is the number for the Pontiac GTO :moonu:

A Chrysler 300C can easily run 13.9 :laugh::moonu:

Another Cadillac CTS-V runs a quick 13.7. :laugh: It just gets better! :moonu:

The Dodge Ram SRT-10 , a pickup runs a cool 13.6, which is quicker than your little Lancer with Evo package. :laugh: :moonu:

The Chevy Corvette runs 13.1 :laugh: Im not stopping yet, im only at Chevy. :moonu: :laugh:

A Ford SVT Mustang Cobra has 390hp and a time of 12.9 :moonu: :laugh:

The Dodge Viper has a lighting quick 12.1 :laugh: :moonu: :laugh:

Another Ford, The GT can run 11.6. Wow i'm crying this is so funny! :laugh:



Remember these are only the new age of American Muscle cars, Cody and I havent even said how fast the cars from the late 60's and early 70's go. :laugh:

I'll see you at the drag strip. :3gears: :3gears:

[MR.BUICK]

[i]these are only the new age of American Muscle cars, Cody and I havent even said how fast the cars from the late 60's and early 70's go. :laugh:

LOL:laugh: Rob, I can only respond with a second reply with this::moonu: :laugh:

look below:Note:Goes for most all ricers:pp

[ATX]

I never mentioned the 350Z and an MR2 Turbo does not run 16's. They are solidly in the 14's, and can run 12's with just a boost controller and exhaust. Yes, cars like the Z06 Vette and Viper are awesome machines... never said they weren't. I was making the point that there are fast imports out there. Saying a street driven 8 second Supra is a slow tin can is ignorant. Comparing a sub $20k MR2 non-turbo to an $85k Viper is verging on mental retardation.

[MR.BUICK]

I found this of of anti-rice.com:laugh:

Nothing like a nice set of exhaust pipes to show the world how retarded you are when you only have a 4 banger

[GoldBoattail455]

Whoa, stand back guys, dual fart cans! :laugh:

Not to mention a huge piece of the bumper on the left side is missing. :laugh:

[MR.BUICK]

There is fast imports out there, the picture above is an example of the stupidity of ricers:af:

www.anti-rice.com :TU:

Good site!

-Cody

[MR.BUICK]

This is one of my favorites!!!!!!!!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

well i guess the mentallity here is, "if it isnt fast, make it look stupid

[MR.BUICK]

This is a really good one, after this I'll have to quit for awhile, I hate looking at that site, it makes me laugh to hard to long!:laugh:

HAHA!! Typical ricer, doesnt even know how to jack up a car!!

[ATX]

Stupid import owners!
:rolleyes:
http://www.anti-rice.com/rice010/ZO-pimp.jpg

[mechacode]

MR.BUICK said:This is a really good one, after this I'll have to quit for awhile, I hate looking at that site, it makes me laugh to hard to long!:laugh:

HAHA!! Typical ricer, doesnt even know how to jack up a car!!

It's jacked up, the tires are just a safety precaution though, I've done it also.


I was going to taco bell the other night in the summit (which has *no* exhaust to speak of, it's loud when you hit the gas so I can't speed in it, perfect, I've been pulled over in it 3 times and I've never heard anything about the exhaust, now try that with a stage one with open headers! lol) and we pull up behind this tiny bmw convertible, now imagine, this brand new looking convertible bmw (z3 maybe?) that looks pretty nice (it had the obligatory middle aged man in it) and me pulling up behind him in this little hatchback with a hood that has no paint on one side, no grill and an " exhaust lope" since there's no exhaust. This guy must have thought my car was "tough" or something because when the light turned green, he floored it out of there like it was a race or something, lol! Even my little brother was like "what the hell?".

[ATX]

http://www.anti-rice.com/rice11/113-1350_IMG.jpg

[ATX]

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/mustang%20-%202.jpg

[Freedster]

Anti-rice jokes for the day:

Q- What's the easiest way to make a sub-12-second Honda?
A- Tow it with an 11-second Buick!

Q- Why did the ricer mount an electrical outlet on his bumper?
A- That's so he won't need an extension cord when he actually uses that ironing board he fastened to the trunk.

- Freed

PS- I wouldn't mind having any of the cars that ATX listed as a daily driver, I just wouldn't really consider them to be classics or musclecars. Hell, I loved my AWD turbo Talon. It was fast and had incredible traction, but it could never have the raw low end grunt of a big block.

[ATX]

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/chevy_rice3.JPG

[ATX]

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/lr.jpg

[MR.BUICK]

Man ATX, where in the Hell do you get all these stupid American rice cars at anyway? Wow, a few american cars that want to be like imports, but how do you explain this idiot? Not even close to a viper:laugh:

[ATX]

PS- I wouldn't mind having any of the cars that ATX listed as a daily driver, I just wouldn't really consider them to be classics or musclecars. Hell, I loved my AWD turbo Talon. It was fast and had incredible traction, but it could never have the raw low end grunt of a big block.

What? Someone making sense?:grin:

[ATX]

MR.BUICK said:Man ATX, where in the Hell do you get all these stupid American rice cars at anyway? Wow, a few american cars that want to be like imports, but how do you explain this idiot? Not even close to a viper:laugh:

Same place you did....:Do No:

[MR.BUICK]

seems as though rice varies, don't see a buick in there though, funny, eh?

[MR.BUICK]

Ricers do just as good of job as copying american cars as vise-versa. This idiot did a good job of copying a corvette with the taillight gig, to bad it don't have the speed:Dou:

[ATX]

http://www.to4r.com/members/media/peterb10.jpg :Brow:

[ATX]

MR.BUICK said:seems as though rice varies, don't see a buick in there though, funny, eh?

http://www.anti-rice.com/ricepics/Weird%20ass%20buick.jpg

[MR.BUICK]

Hey, that's the coolest car on the site! At least it don't have a fart can muffler on it like supras come stock with.:moonu: :laugh:

This guy did a poor kob imitating a cavalier, or is it?:moonu: :laugh:

[MR.BUICK]

Hey, that's the coolest car on the site! At least it don't have a fart can muffler on it like supras come stock with.:moonu: :laugh:

This guy did a poor job imitating a cavalier, or is it?:moonu: :laugh:

[Freedster]

ATX said:What? Someone making sense?:grin:

I'm sorry, I can stop if you'd like. :)

I just see those little cars as a great platform for some American muscle, that's all. Those guys that show up at GS Nationals with the GN-powered RX7's have the right idea. Personally, I'd like a GN-powered 1993 325is, and a 455-powered 635CSi.

For that matter, I think a 455 would find a great home in anything small and light with rear wheel drive, like a 240SX, or a first- or second-gen Supra, or even a Miata (with some major surgery).

The thing is, for the price of a 350 horse B18c or SR20 I could probably build a 550 horse 455, and it would be more reliable to boot. Me? I'll go for the cubes.

- Freed

[MR.BUICK]

Heres another buick, but only it don't have fartcan mufflers, just a sweet looking exhaust with a V8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MR.BUICK]

This thread is getting no where, but is kinda funny to fight over the rivalrys. I personally think that the people that have buicks on Anti-rice.com have a better taste for stuff than the retards with imports(and american rice) that have decals that add gobs of HP to their cars. Oh, and them fartcan mufflers, i tell you, they add so much power, it even sounds good, like when someones farting. And them 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder imports, they produce 800 horsepower through the block, when you add every other junky thing, you add up to about 1,500 horsepower.(just mocking a ricers point of view:) )

-Cody

[MR.BUICK]

And I almost forgot to add that the wings on them ricers, they produce so much downforce and power, the wings can make a 16 second car become a 7 second car! And the NOS, well, we save that untill we race an a REAL CAR, because without it, we would be nothing. Lets not forget, we have to have super-chargers and turbos when we race real cars too, because without them, victory would not have meaning for us!:laugh:

-Cody

[ATX]

That huge winged (stock) Supra with the "fart can" makes 1132 rwhp. Not bad for a ricer...:rolleyes:

[ATX]

Freedster said:I'm sorry, I can stop if you'd like. :)

I just see those little cars as a great platform for some American muscle, that's all. Those guys that show up at GS Nationals with the GN-powered RX7's have the right idea. Personally, I'd like a GN-powered 1993 325is, and a 455-powered 635CSi.

For that matter, I think a 455 would find a great home in anything small and light with rear wheel drive, like a 240SX, or a first- or second-gen Supra, or even a Miata (with some major surgery).

The thing is, for the price of a 350 horse B18c or SR20 I could probably build a 550 horse 455, and it would be more reliable to boot. Me? I'll go for the cubes.

- Freed

The 455 is quite expensive to build up (TA performance has a link to a 455 buildup)... you can build up a MUCH higher HP Mk4 Supra engine for less.

People put all kinds of motors in Miatas. A popular swap is the 4.9 Liter Mustang motor... Monster Miata

BMW with an LS1 - http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/246000-246999/246292_111_full.jpg

[ATX]

Twin turbo LS1 in a BMW-
http://www.torquecentral.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5490

[MR.BUICK]

Hows about a 1200 horsepower 573 buick engine built by Jim burek to put in a miata.....I don't know if it'd fit or not, just an idea.....:Do No:

[GoldBoattail455]

You'd make it fit! :laugh:

I saw once a fuel injected 350 dropped into a Lexus Is 300 i think. the smallest of the lexus sedans. Man that thing could lay down a nice strip. :3gears:

[mechacode]

I'd like to point out the difference between rice and "lowriders", lowriders have been around since muscle cars first came out, they're not rice. They focus on the "look" of a car, they're not pretending to be fast or anything, some of them have $15,000 paint jobs that take 200 hours to complete with custom murals and people spend thousands of hours and many are a work of art, they aren't to be grouped with "rice".

[MR.BUICK]

The post up there that ATX posted with the pic of that skylark has a paintjob that don't look cheap. Pretty neat:Brow:

-Cody

[Freedster]

ATX said:The 455 is quite expensive to build up (TA performance has a link to a 455 buildup)... you can build up a MUCH higher HP Mk4 Supra engine for less.

People put all kinds of motors in Miatas. A popular swap is the 4.9 Liter Mustang motor... Monster Miata



Well, yes and no. :)

I've been quoted $2500 in and out for a 550 horse Buick 455 from a reputable engine builder. You couldn't do all that much on a Supra for that kind of money. You could do some upgrades, but you probably couldn't be making close to 550 horsepower, and you sure wouldn't have all of the low-end torque the 455 would bring to the table. I'm not saying the Supra motors aren't fast or durable, because they are. But I think the bottom line is that the 455 would give you more bang for the buck and a faster, more driveable car for the money. Starting with nothing, I think you could build a super-fast, Buick-455-powered 3rd gen Supra for the cost of buying a 4th gen Supra and giving it a tune up. For that matter, you could probably get even more bang for the buck if you started with an even cheaper engine platform, like a BB Chebby. I'm not a Chebby fan, but few will argue about how cheaply they can be built. There's where I stand on that.

On your other topic, I've done a fair amount of reading on Miata engine swaps. It's true, people do put all kinds of motors in Miatas. That having been said, there's only a few different makes of V8's that can fit without major surgery because the car has such a narrow engine bay. About the only V8 that can fit in between the front fenders is the old-style Ford small block. Heck, that's why Carrol Shelby chose the small block Ford for the Sunbeam Tigers and then for the first Cobras he built -- it's a V8 in a compact package. The most readily available of the old-style Ford small blocks is the 5.0 liter found in the Mustangs, and that's the only one that fits in the Miata easily. The 5.0 clears the wheel wells and the stock hood, and also has a huge aftermarket following, making further enhancements fairly inexpensive. There isn't really any widely supported GM V6 or V8 that will fit into that engine bay without having to convert the front clip to a tube frame because they are all too wide. Ditto for the Ford 351W, the new "modular" style OHC V8's and V6's Ford is putting out now, and ditto for most other OHC V8's in the world as well. (Like the Lexus V8; As a footnote, there's a company in Australia that does a really nice looking Miata conversion with the Lexus motor as a turnkey unit. They do it by building a tube frame front end and putting a one piece fiberglass front clip on the car.)

About the only other V8 that fits into the Miata's engine bay easily is the Buick/Rover Aluminum block, but it would just cost you SO much more to build up one of those than it would a 5.0 (not to mention that the displacement is smaller), so most people just don't bother. I've also read that the high-winding DOHC aluminum V8 that they put in the 2nd generation SHO will physically fit into a Miata (and with a valvetrain rated to 9500rpm, that sounds very tempting). But, considering the poor reputation those motors have, the small displacement, and the amount of fabrication it would take to get one running (like a custom made bellhousing and reprogramming the ECU to work with a different transmission), I don't know of anyone that has attempted that swap.

The only true "Monster Miatas" were those 5.0L cars built by Monster Motorsports in California back in the early 90's. Monster stopped building the Miatas (I think because of emissions regulations) and the last time I checked they are just a shell of the company they used to be. As time has passed, anyone throwing a 5.0 in a Miata has been calling it a Monster, but the actual cars built by Monster are quite rare and desireable because of the special touches that Monster put into the car. There is a guy that is marketing a kit for making 5.0L Miatas, and he is one of the original R&D guys that used to work for Monster. From what I gather it is a pretty straightforward kit that lets you bolt in the 5.0 and T-5 from a Mustang, and hook it up to a narrowed 8.8" IRS from a Thunderbird. I gather it's about the best kit out there for the swap.

Sorry for the novel... :)

- Freed

[ATX]

Don't worry about the "novel". The majority of people on auto forums, unfortunately, have bad information or are simply ignorant about what they are babbling about!:beer When it comes down to it, a 12.5 second Supra is just as quick as a 12.5 second Buick. Different strokes for different folks. I love them both!:grin:

[Freedster]

ATX said::beer When it comes down to it, a 12.5 second Supra is just as quick as a 12.5 second Buick. Different strokes for different folks. I love them both!:grin:

True. Personally, I'd like a 9-second BMW 3-series that can hit speeds north of 200MPH in a standing start mile. I figure the motor out of a low 10-second Grand National would be a good place to start, if only I could afford one. Don't worry, I'll have one built in the next 5 years...

Oh, I also want one of these:

http://www.sizemore.co.uk/pics/InterceptorSide.jpg

:)

- Freed

[MR.BUICK]

Im gonna buy me one of these when I get older. These are really rare, but I think I could squeeze a 455 buick under the hood too. This guy had to do a little work to get it to fit, but it worked, and that sucker is fast. I can't wait to get mine.

:)

[AZ-69 Skylark]

Freedster said:True. Personally, I'd like a 9-second BMW 3-series that can hit speeds north of 200MPH in a standing start mile. I figure the motor out of a low 10-second Grand National would be a good place to start, if only I could afford one. Don't worry, I'll have one built in the next 5 years...

Oh, I also want one of these:

http://www.sizemore.co.uk/pics/InterceptorSide.jpg

:)

- Freed

I've seen one at a local car show that was made up to be as close as possible to the ones in the movie. Way cool. The funny thing is the movie has made ricers think you can actually turn a roots blower on and off ! I heard this at the show and on other forums. They don't know that the blower in the movie wasn't functional. It was driven with an electric motor when Gibson flipped the switch.

[ATX]

The funny thing is the movie has made ricers think you can actually turn a roots blower on and off ! I heard this at the show and on other forums.

While the blower in Mad Max may have been driven by an electric motor, it is true... you can turn the boost on and off. In fact, the majority of roots style superchargers that come from the factory have a bypass valve that redirects the airflow when boost isn't needed. This generally occurs during idle and low RPM conditions such as cruising. So yes.... a roots blower can be "turned on and off".:cool:

[Freedster]

Well, I've actually thought of a way that you could put a Roots blower on a clutch and turn it on and off like they did in the movie. It has to do with the design of the casing, among other things, but it could probably be retrofitted into current blower designs without much trouble. I'm sure it would work, I just don't have the money to get it patented, so it will probably never see the light of day. :(

- Freed

[Ken Mild]

Can you re-post the link? It doesn't seem to be working....

[Ken Mild]

MR.BUICK said:Heres another buick, but only it don't have fartcan mufflers, just a sweet looking exhaust with a V8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but what's up with those Cheech and Chong tires?? :Dou:

[MR.BUICK]

Ken Mild said:Yeah, but what's up with those Cheech and Chong tires?? :Dou:

Lol:laugh: Can you say, Bling-Bling?:puzzled:

:laugh:

-Cody

[ATX]

Freedster said:Well, I've actually thought of a way that you could put a Roots blower on a clutch and turn it on and off like they did in the movie. It has to do with the design of the casing, among other things, but it could probably be retrofitted into current blower designs without much trouble. I'm sure it would work, I just don't have the money to get it patented, so it will probably never see the light of day. :(

- Freed

Sorry to burst your bubble, but someone beat you to it. The supercharged Mercedes motors actually use a clutch to disengage the blower. Good idea though!:)

[Freedster]

Nope, wholly different design from Mercedes uses. If I'm remembering it right just bypass the whole blower when they aren't using it, and disengage it to reduce parasitic losses. I'm 99% sure my design is unique.

- Freed

[ATX]

So you are thinking about various boost levels by "slipping" the clutch?:confused:

[Freedster]

ATX said:So you are thinking about various boost levels by "slipping" the clutch?:confused:

Nope, the clutch would be an on/off switch just like an AC compressor clutch. It would be something that could be made to work in conjunction with a fairly "conventional" carbed 6-71 blower setup (for example). For all purposes, it would work on a switch just like the one in the movie is supposedly working.

Now, if I told you anything else, I'd have to shoot you. :)

Sorry all, for the thread hijacking.

- Freed

[mechacode]

Ken Mild said:Can you re-post the link? It doesn't seem to be working....

It still works for me. Did you try it with a different browser?

[hotrod_06010]

wont work for me either<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_9_7.gif' border=0></a>

[BuickRodder103]

Hey Im new to the site but when I found this thread it reminded me of the time my dad DESTROYED a HOOKED UP integra with a STOCK 1992 Mercedes SL500 LOL. I have my own rice killer in the works, a 69 skylark which will hopefully get a big block, th400, and ford 9 inch over the winter...

[ATX]

Those SL Benzes are really nice. I ran one a while back in my VW, but I didn't have any problems putting a few car lengths on it.:beer

[wantahertzdonut]

Oh, I also want one of these:

http://www.sizemore.co.uk/pics/InterceptorSide.jpg

:)

- Freed

I actually had money on a Falcon last week, but when I looked more at the car the less I thought it was worth it. I'm trying to find one in the US, trouble is there's only about 100 or so over here and only a few are for sale.

[Naranjalark70]

hey atx,
is the car in that picture yours, or are you just trying to convert us from to your ricer ways from your dad's v8buick account? (by the way...skyline is not legal in US and the MR2 is a poser)

[Ken Mild]

I also know of a Civic in Houston that can run with modded Vipers... video proof available. Yeah, it isn't practical... but there are some SICK 4cyl cars out there that are really sleepers!

The sick ones usually "are" the sleepers. The ones that look like a sheet metal experiment gone bad are generally the real pukes. :error:

[skylark300]

Actually Skylines can be made legal for the US for about $20,000, nad I can almost gaurantee they can hang with most Muscle cars because they(GTR's) don't have the traction issues that a Supra has nor do they have the small powerband,I'm not switching sides here just letting you know what I think.And stock they only have 277hp and run 13.7's in the quarter.So imagine what they can do with little work.

[Damian Kolosik]

1 prob about the skyline and 1 question do you really want to pay 77,000 + for a car thats slower than a vette and costs more to build and doesnt handle nearly as well? im not impressed with the skyline at all, over rated to say the least... no offense.
if i was gonna spend that kind of money id get a vette and build it up with the remaining money. or better yet put that much in a GN :grin:.

[skylark300]

You are right about ricers being slower in the 1/4, a 1994 Nissan Skyline GTR holds the record for 4wd 1/4mile times with a 8.55. :ball:

[AZ-69 Skylark]

I will go on record here as saying I like the sleeper imports. Sadly they are few and far between. What we mostly see is the Fast and Furious wannabes.

ATX, I have got to clarify something I said. With the 4-71 and 6-71 roots blowers they CANNOT be turned on and off. They run whenever the engine does. The Eaton SCs have a bypass valve for cruise speed. I THINK Whipplechargers have something similar.

Skylines are cool, but I can't imagine having to buy parts for it. Talk about a pain and expensive. Besides, I don't want a car I have to worry about being stolen all the time. A Skyline is one of those cars.

[mechacode]

I will go on record here as saying I like the sleeper imports. Sadly they are few and far between. What we mostly see is the Fast and Furious wannabes.


I couldn't have said it better.

[skylark300]

Your right about buying parts.I personally have always wanted a Honda cvcc with a 2000 civic si motor in it because nobody would ever suspect it, or a Datsun 510 with a sr22 engine.

[Go Buick Go]

Figured I'd just throw my two cents in as everybody else seemingly already has. I'll keep it semi short.

Cars are cars. Enjoy them for what they are. Not all Buicks are god's gift to the world. Ditto for imports, american cars, and european cars. There are fast cars and slow cars made by just about every brand, so stop bickering that Buicks are better, or Supras are better...it's all point of view. If you like your Buick (as I do), be happy with it, and f*ck what everyone else thinks. If you have an import with a wing, ground effects, neon lights, and no engine mods, and you're happy with it, f*ck what other people say. You know how much crap I have gotten from stupid ignorant people cos my car is a 4 door? Or hell, even from Buick people cos my car isn't an a-body or regal type?

My whole point is, enjoy what you have, and let other people enjoy their cars.

[ATX]

hey atx,
is the car in that picture yours, or are you just trying to convert us from to your ricer ways from your dad's v8buick account? (by the way...skyline is not legal in US and the MR2 is a poser)

If you are talking about the Lark in my sig, yes... it is my POS.
Skyline isn't legal in the US? Uh oh, better call the authorities and shut down MOTOREX. MR2 is a poser? It ran 14's stock with a tiny turbo and low boost.

[mechacode]

Yea, skylines are legal in the us *after* they have about 15k worth of emissions/etc to meet our laws. Anyone that actually imports a skyline is only in it for the looks since you can spend that kind of money on upgrades on an old talon and go faster.

[ATX]

Yea, skylines are legal in the us *after* they have about 15k worth of emissions/etc to meet our laws. Anyone that actually imports a skyline is only in it for the looks since you can spend that kind of money on upgrades on an old talon and go faster.

:Dou:

[skymangs]

ATX, I know that you aren't trying to make us feel bad by posting a pic of a riced out probe. I would hardly call that "American Muscle". That thing shares a chassis with Mazda!!! I think you must have the wrong forum, try www.bling-bling.com, cause "You'll get no sympathy from me".

[ATX]

ATX, I know that you aren't trying to make us feel bad by posting a pic of a riced out probe. I would hardly call that "American Muscle". That thing shares a chassis with Mazda!!! I think you must have the wrong forum, try www.bling-bling.com, cause "You'll get no sympathy from me".

Who ever said anything about American muscle? This thread is about RICE... on the import and domestic side. Yes, the Probe is not a stellar performer on the domestic side, just like Civics aren't on the import side... both cars are featured in this thread. As far as telling me to go to some other site... sorry pal, I am here for Buick info, as I own a 72 Lark (which I love). I also own and have owned imports as well... and all have been great, well, save for my first car which was an 87 Hyundai Excel :) I defend them all, so deal with it.

[Geeto 67]

Hey Adam, way to carry on the good fight.

Like many car guys who still look at fuel injection in awe, occasionally poking it with a stick in the flicker light of their caves, there are a some (but not all) guys posting here that just don't get the difference between a fast car and "wanna be" transcends this domestic vs. import brewhaha. A riced out blinged out honda is no different than a clapped out regal with slapper bars and a set of glasspacks on a v6. The numbers don't lie, Turbo supras and big block buicks may have different ways of getting there but both are capable of streetable 11 seconds, and roughly cost the same to build (not counting the cost of the car, and assuming you started with an 1964-1972 GS buick in nice shape - you could well spend more than the initial purchase price of a supra in bodywork alone to a clapped out stage 1), and both turn approximatley equal times stock.

Want a better example: look at racing. Pro-import cars and Pro stock cars share the same budgets, chassis, weight, and are virtually identical in ever respect except the engines. In fact some pro import cars began life as prostock cars. On one hand you have a merlin, or dart, or Keith black carbed big inch big block chevy or hemi based mill, on the other you have fuel injected, multiple poweradded, race and production stock (supra and solara) blocks using every high tech trick in the book to make up for their lack of cubic inches. Both cars run very similar numbers, imports usually being half a second off from their pro stock brothers, why? because as Warren Johnson said in a recent interview the import cars have the potential to go faster because they make more horsepower but becasue they are still new they don't have the r&d to optomize their chassis to the engine combo. If the pro stock guys had the technology maybe they could go faster but the technology for these older engines isn't there. Look at Pro street, similar to pro stock except the engine restriction aren't as strict and they can use turbos and FI and nitrous and they still can't go any faster. At the end of the day a fast car is a fast car. It takes the same amount of money, time, and devlopment to get there, and the only thing different is the methods.

don't we have the same argument going on in three other threads at the same time? maybe we should just start a import vs. domestic thread and keep it going so as not to end up hijacking every kill story there is with this same argument.

[ATX]

Speaking of quick imports, check out this Celica with a Supra drivetrain...

Stock block, crank, head. Of the shelf pistons, rods, hardware, oversized valves, cams and a ported/polished head. Not too bad.

http://www.highboost.com/movies/TitanRace/fastestcelica.wmv

[Buick_350X]

follow the link, several pics, so if your on dial up. Let the page load before you start reading it.

http://www.viragotech.com/honduh.html

[mechacode]

This thread is about RICE... on the import and domestic side.


Actually, the thread was about a "rice" car versus a nice exotic car. It's just gone off topic a bit. :spank:

[Geeto 67]

http://www.viragotech.com/MVC-011S.jpg

Man that site is old, I remember seeing that back in 1999. Ok here is what I don't get, take a early 1960's mopar and put torque thrusts on the front and steel rims with DOT slicks on the rear and everybody thinks it's badass, take a fast import put a really nice set of 18" rims on the rear and a set of stock rims on the front with the same set of DOT slicks and all of a sudden everybody says it looks like junk. Granted a lot of the no-go-showboats usually have stock rims on the front with stock tires, but a lot of junky muscle cars have mismatched rims too. Is the car world just so biased that a "performance" car only looks good to people if it has fat tires in the rear?

[mechacode]

I'll throw out an answer to that. It doesn't look right. What do you associate with being a "fast" car? I think of top fuel, huge rear tires, skinny fronts. Do you think the first people that put out a fwd car ever thought of it as being for performance? There's a reason semis/dumptrucks/trucks/etc don't have fwd/are primarily rwd. If fwd was for performance, you'd see top fuel dragsters that looked pretty funny. IMO

[Geeto 67]

I'll agree that rwd or awd is really the way to go building a performance car.

But some of the the old 4wd fueliers looked funny (Tommy ivo's 4 engine nailheaded buick was the only one that looked cool), and there were fwd rail cars and funny cars (the 455 olds tornado motors made it really easy to do) that didn't look anything but sick (think reversed topfueler with the driver sitting midship).

[ATX]

Do you think the first people that put out a fwd car ever thought of it as being for performance? There's a reason semis/dumptrucks/trucks/etc don't have fwd/are primarily rwd. If fwd was for performance, you'd see top fuel dragsters that looked pretty funny. IMO

Well, the first RWD cars weren't made for performance either. Semis/Dumptrucks/Trucks/etc aren't fwd because they are performance vehicles? That doesn't make much sense to me, unless you are talking about towing performance due to weight distribution. I guess you can look at FWD as a performance layout as well - smaller and lighter tranny and better wet/icy weather performance. Not to mention a shorter path from the flywheel to the tires... less parasitic drivetrain loss. Unfortunately, FWD isn't too great for high powered cars on launches and the fact that handling is better (on newer sporty cars... not muscle cars) when the front wheels aren't busy powering the car, just pointing it in the right direction!

[mechacode]

Unfortunately, FWD isn't too great for high powered cars on launches and the fact that handling is better (on newer sporty cars... not muscle cars) when the front wheels aren't busy powering the car, just pointing it in the right direction!

That's my point.

[skymangs]

ATX, I personally have nothing against Import tuners. A fast car is a fast car. What I hate is the attitude of people who drive cars like that probe. Seems to me that a majority of them drive like they are in "the fast and the furious", and really believe that their stock car with a big muffler, and stickers is fast. I am Active duty Army, and around military posts there are an abundance of 2 foot tall rear wings, 18" rims, HUGE exhaust tips on 1.5" exhaust, and 1.21 gigawatt stereos. I s*** you not, I can not count on two hands the number of cars/trucks in each block that have 18-20" wheels. I have nothing but respect for modern technology. In fact, the 69 that I am building right now will have Multi-point efi, ATI pro-charger, and 200-R4 OD.
When it comes right down to it, define an import? some 80% of the parts on our modern american performance cars are made in Tiawan, Japan, China, ect... And Hondas are now being produced here in the US. To me it comes down to style. I see todays cars, and wonder where the pride went. 70% plastic, and no character.

[ATX]

Yeah, I totally agree with you... I just can't stand when people lump every import into the "ricer" category. Maybe it is different here in Austin, but we sure have a lot of FAST imports. By FAST I mean under 13 second 1/4's.

[Go Buick Go]

That celica was f-ing awesome! I think it would be very nice if one of the car makers would build a v-8 with the technology they put into those inline fours. I know that car makers are using that technology to an extent (although I'm not sure to what extent) but if you could have a boosted Sube motor making 300hp, I mean, wtf, why not do that to a v-8 stock. One of the companies could come out with a mid engined, four wheel drive, twin turbo v-8 as basically the ultimate performance car...you know, but for under 40k or so. I guess the ford gt kinda hits that mark, but I think it's only rwd.

Whatever, sorry got sidetracked. A fast car is a fast car. Blinged out imports are dumb, and clapped out muscle cars are worse imo. I think muscle cars just have more potential off the bat than a honda b-16.

[skymangs]

Yeah, I totally agree with you... I just can't stand when people lump every import into the "ricer" category. Maybe it is different here in Austin, but we sure have a lot of FAST imports. By FAST I mean under 13 second 1/4's.

I had a friend while I was stationed in Germany that had a Nissan 240 (SX maybe? I'm not to up on imports). He had a HUGE Turbo that he ordered for some Honda or something, and hand built his own downpipes, ect. That car had no ground effects, no spoilers, no hood scoops, the only giveaway was the 17" wheels. That thing was FAST. I had my 68 there (yup, 3 years of cruising the German Autobahn in a 68 Skylark) and his car whipped my a$$. My 68 was a 350 car, but ran a 13.6 1600meter (no 1/4 Mi. tracks in Germany). This guy was running a high 12.

[Buick_350X]

I had a friend while I was stationed in Germany that had a Nissan 240 (SX maybe? I'm not to up on imports). He had a HUGE Turbo that he ordered for some Honda or something, and hand built his own downpipes, ect. That car had no ground effects, no spoilers, no hood scoops, the only giveaway was the 17" wheels. That thing was FAST. I had my 68 there (yup, 3 years of cruising the German Autobahn in a 68 Skylark) and his car whipped my a$$. My 68 was a 350 car, but ran a 13.6 1600meter (no 1/4 Mi. tracks in Germany). This guy was running a high 12.


So how many 100MPH+ runs did ya do???

[skymangs]

So how many 100MPH+ runs did ya do???

I only raced twice in Munich, I ran a total of 6 runs, my best speed was 104. Sorry, no Supercar, just a mild 350 with peg leg 3.23 rear and B&M TH350.

However, The Autobahn as you may know has no speed limit in many places. I regularly had the speedo pegged for the 4 hour drive to Frankfurt. I was also a member of BCG (Buick Club of Germany). I had the honor of being the ONLY 68-72 Skylark in the country (as far as the BCG new). There was however, a 68 Custom Convertable in Salsburg Austria, and a 69 GS350 in Italy. Most of the BCG guys had 30's, 40's and 50's buicks.

And if you think Rice is bad, try a German car show. The judges won't even look at your car if you don't have strobe lights, neon, or stupid stick on plastic trim that says "street Machine". :spank:

[Buick_350X]

Thats cool though. Id love to be able to just hold the pedal to the floor and not need to worry about cops.

[skymangs]

Thats cool though. Id love to be able to just hold the pedal to the floor and not need to worry about cops.

Yea, You'll think you're real cool going 125mph, legally. Till some little s*** beater BMW blows by ya at about 140. You wouldn't beleive it unless you saw it. you'll see little Fiats and renaults doing 140+ on the open highway.

[Geeto 67]

That celica was f-ing awesome! I think it would be very nice if one of the car makers would build a v-8 with the technology they put into those inline fours. I know that car makers are using that technology to an extent (although I'm not sure to what extent) but if you could have a boosted Sube motor making 300hp, I mean, wtf, why not do that to a v-8 stock. One of the companies could come out with a mid engined, four wheel drive, twin turbo v-8 as basically the ultimate performance car...you know, but for under 40k or so. I guess the ford gt kinda hits that mark, but I think it's only rwd.

I'd be nice but unless we are talking a very small v-8 (like 200 ci or less small) it will never happen. Why? well for starters a v8 will never get the has mileage that a 6 or a 4 will. These days nobody will by a car that gets sucky gas mileage unless we are talking a prestige thing (mercedes, lamborghini, etc) or hauling capacity (SUV, pickups, etc.). Really what america needs to build as the next psuedo sports cars are cars like the subaru wrx sti and the lancer evo 7: awd, fast, power adders on fuel efficient motors (my buddies wrx gets over 25mpg when he babies is and runs low 13's), lots of timing and FI techniology and actually useable as a real car (I am 6'4" and fit comfortably in the back seat of a wrx, I've never fit in a camaro backseat). The SRT4 comes pretty close now that they put a quaiff diff in the front, but it is still a fwd car. There was a rumor that the new GTO was goign to be AWD for a while since there was a AWD monaro v6 being shown around last year, and that would have been awsome, sadly it never happened. Maybe when the bring the camaro back in 2007 (yeah right - it will never happen). Sadly the americans will never be able to buld cars as good as the japanese or germans because frankly no american car company has any idea what i's public wants or how to give ti to them. If I were GM and had the wrx drivetrain under license (which they do for the saab 9.3 awd) I would put that under every stinking car I could mated to everything from the ecotec to the ls2. There is already an adapter to mate chevy transmissions to wrx engines, so it isn't too far fetched to have an adapter made for chevy engines and subaru drivetrains. It's sad that 2010 will probably come and go before we see an awd perfromance compact sedan from the big three.

[Go Buick Go]

geeto - I agree with you totally...I was just kinda dreaming I guess. I'm actually going to get a 2004 STI when the price drops a bit...actually I'm going to get one regardless at the end of next summer after I get back from Europe. The american auto makers are all but clueless. They're trying very hard to bring back their glory days of the 60/early 70s when the muscle car was hot, but I just don't think it's going to work. If they swiped the Sube platform, kept it set up as a stock Sube but remade it into a pontiac or something, put some crap interior in it and sold it for under 20k, they'd make a nice chunk of change...imo. Mitsu now has how many verions of the Evo 7 out? Three? Something like that. Whatever. American car companies have become kinda stupid, I think.

[Buick_350X]

I can't think of one reason why they call them cars rice???

http://www.viragotech.com/rice.jpg

[AZ-69 Skylark]

Damn. Now I want some rice with parmesan and American cheese.

BTW, why get an STI? Why not get an EVO?

[IDOXLR8]

Stupid import owners!
:rolleyes:
http://www.anti-rice.com/rice010/ZO-pimp.jpg Its OK to do this kind of ting to a rice burner but I wish they would not drag american cars in to this kind of mess. AL :af:

[Geeto 67]

BTW, why get an STI? Why not get an EVO?

The STI is the better car. Here in the states Subaru had enough foresight to use a 2.5 litre block for the STI engine while most of europe has to put up with a 2.0L STI block. A freind of mine works for the subaru dealership as their perf tuner and he tells me that they sell 1 sti a week to someone from england who ships it back over. One guy even shiped an esclade over. The same cannot be said for the evo, while the rest of the world gets the evo 7 (a real hot rod) the ?US gets a watered down version , the evolution 8. The american version has less hp than the STI, and is physically slower than the STI(it is slightly heavier). About the only thing the EVO has over the STI is the interior is slightly nicer and the car has oversteer vs. the STI's understeer (which a swaybar immediatly fixes for around $125). To be honest I would have bought an STI already if I was In the market for a new daily driver, but since I comute by train and I already own three cars there ins't much need there for a new car.

Now, the black 68-69 vette above, I don't see anything wrong with it, It just looks like a stock restoration (including redlines) that someone has stored for the winter. What am I suposed to be looking for?

[Go Buick Go]

geeto pretty much summed up why the STI and not the evo. The american spec evo is good, but not as good as the STI. IMO, it's easier to do suspension mods to get the STI up to the handling level of the Evo, than to do a lot of engine work to the Evo to get it up to the STI's level. Although, Mitsu is coming out with the Evo MR, which looks just badass. But I am on a budget, which is why the STI is going to work out better. I figure that buying it a year from now when it's already a year old/the new models are out, it'll be a lot cheaper than getting a new Evo MR.

[afracer]

My "ricer" :grin:

My Project (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/afracer/Datsun/mydatsun.jpg)

Another (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/afracer/Datsun/Datsun0031.jpg)

Last One (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/afracer/Datsun/sr20A.jpg)

[70buick455]

Ok, Ive read all the posts. I gotta just say, Some imports are fast, no doubt, but I can't help but feel like its fake, that is if you're running NOS or a turbocharger. When I think of real power, I think STOCK, sure new cam, carb, pistons. I own a buick 350.4 skylark and am rebuilding a 455. Yes I am bias. but There is no replacement for TORQUE, thats all there is to it. Ride in any ricer, and you'll notice something missing, TORQUE. Say in a race for example, Light to light, 0 to 60, I think you'd notice what the V8 has over the Imports. Sure they look fast(imports) but when you spend that much money on making a car look fast, are you covering up for something???? I duno??? Aint trying to step on any toes, just my opinion, take it or leave it.

[Geeto 67]

Ok, Ive read all the posts. I gotta just say, Some imports are fast, no doubt, but I can't help but feel like its fake, that is if you're running NOS or a turbocharger. When I think of real power, I think STOCK, sure new cam, carb, pistons. I own a buick 350.4 skylark and am rebuilding a 455. Yes I am bias. but There is no replacement for TORQUE, thats all there is to it. Ride in any ricer, and you'll notice something missing, TORQUE. Say in a race for example, Light to light, 0 to 60, I think you'd notice what the V8 has over the Imports. Sure they look fast(imports) but when you spend that much money on making a car look fast, are you covering up for something???? I duno??? Aint trying to step on any toes, just my opinion, take it or leave it.


How is it fake? Power adders used on modern imports were devloped for decades on old american iron in the drag wars that raged throught the 50's till today. Nitrous was used by the nazi's in their aircraft as a power adder at high altitude, as were superchargers and turbos used by both sides. I can understand how you would think that it is not legititimate when compared to stock cars, but remember fast is fast no mater how you get there:

How is a buick 350 with new cam, carb, pistons stock? It isn't. I think what you are looking to say is naturally aspirated - no power adders. You are correct in stating that there is no replacement for torque, because there is no replacement for displacement and torque is a function of displacement.

However there is also no replacement for weight savings which is the the advantage a lot of sport compact cars hold over traditional muscle cars. Think about it like this: you have a 3500lbs powered a-body powered by a 350 ci small block making 350 ft/lbs of torque. that means that every 1 ft/lbs of torque is pushing 10 lbs of tin. Now take a honda powered by a 4 cylinder 1.8 liter making 180 ft/lbs of torque and weighing 1800lbs. again 1ft/lbs of torque is pushing 10lbs of tin. You the feeling you get accelerating is actually a feeling created by inertia, the heavier car being pushed to speed from a stop will generate more resistance and therefore a percieved feeling of more force while the sport compact will not "feel as fast" while accelerating at a same rate since there is less resistance moving it from a stop. Basically you are using more force to cover the same distance.

Now what a old 350 has over a smaller displacement sport compact is a "flatter torque curve". It is not so much that the enigne outside of a car creates more power, but rather where that engine creates it's power that is important. In a traditional v-8 the torque curve starts fairly low in the engine's rpm range and builds to a peak a lot earlier (look at traditional small blocks that make peak torque at 4500-4800 rpm), where as a sport compact has a wider rpm range and therefore has a lot more distance to cover to make peak torque (which it will do a few thousand rpms higher than a v-8).The engines torque range does not really being till a few thousands rpm higher than the v-8. Since most sport compacts will hit the meat of their torque band after they have already begun to roll, as opposed to a tradtional v-8 which hits it's torque band from or close to standing (due to a converter or how fast you can get the clutch out) the "feel" is also lessened. In the end gettign a jump is always preferable to waiting for it to build, but really if one stop light to stop light race only involved first gear (and all other factors like gear ratio and tire traction being equal) it would be a pretty close race between a 3500 lbs 350 ft/lbs muscle car and a 180 ft/lbs 1800 lbs sport compact.

Now as far as cost to look fast, the only reason I see sport compact owners spending more money on exterior accessories is because there are more of them. Anyone who ahs had to do bodywork on a muscle car knows the cost will out exceed any pipe/hood/wing/skirts mods you can do to a clean bodied import. But really what can you do to a muscle car for the street? fiberglass hood? costs the same between makes of cars (most s.c. owners spend the extra money for a carbon fiber hood which right now are only available for a 1969 camaro and at 10x the cost of one for a subaru). If you compare the cost of an endura bumper to the cost of a ricer front bumper you'll see that the 1969 camaro is 20x the cost (if you can find one). Sure a fiberglass one might be cheaper but most of the ricer bumpers meet crash standrds (the quality ones anyway) which a fibreglass 69 camaro bumper does not. In the end speed is speed, it all cost a lot of money and pretty much costs about the same no mater what kind of car you are in. The problem with spending the money to make a car look fast is that you haven't spent the money to make it go fast, which a lot of ricers fall victim to, mostly because of their age and lack of expirence to understand how to make a car fast. Most v-8 guys aren't much better, think about how hard it is picking a cam for a v-8 car and now imagine picking two cams that have to work with each other and the application. There are just as many clueless people who own muscle cars as there are ricers, in this hobby the tradtionalists tend to ignore the kid in the monte carlo with the stock 305, slapper bars, stp stickers, jacked up rear, and big meats on cragers while poking fun at the kid with the honda with the wing, spoilers, jdm stickers, and big rims - its unfair, both cars are posers - so why is one better then the other? the theoritical answer is they aren't but the reality is that most "muscle car guys" will ignore the version of a ricer amoung their own ranks just so they can make them selves feel better about owning antiquated equipment.

Finally, about your stock for stock thing, a new Subaru Wrx STI off the show room floor will run a 13.23 quarter mile, which is faster than a lot of bone stock muscle cars (including such famous ones as the roadrunner, the gs400, the 335 hp GTO, Chevelle SS396 with 325 hp, etc...).Even Honda's Naturally aspirated Civic SI is in the 14 sec range. The thing is the honda or the subaru will get better gas mileage also, be cheaper to operate, cheaper to maintain, cover twice as many miles reliably, and cheaper to insure as a daily driver for full coverage for an 18 year old. As much as we love them we cannot ignore that our v-8s are old outdated equipment. The new engines are far more efficient at making a lot of hp out of a very small package. The only domestic engines I can think of that comes close to modern technology used by the jap manufacturers are the Buick GN v-6 (using turbo technology, but on an outdated base), the corvette zr-1 enigne which used (twin cams, all aluminum construction, and host of little tricks and computer controlling to make an engine that for time was the extremely powerful and got great gas mileage), and the new mustang dohc 4.6 engines (which are too new to have proven themselves but are already showing a lot of promise). Maybe in the future we'll see a GSX on show room floors once again, but this time with a DOHC v-8 getting 30 mpg and being twice as fast as the original. I doubt it, but it is possible (if the american car companies get their act together).

[ATX]

0 to 60, I think you'd notice what the V8 has over the Imports.

A STOCK WRX STi or Evo can do a 0-60 sprint in just over 4.5 seconds.

[afracer]

I don't blame a lot of guys that are anti-rice, anti-imports, etc. and all about American muscle, just shows they have a lot of pride in their country, which is awesome. I love that there is a whole domestic vs import mentality, the challenge can only make things better for both sides of the fence. :beer I enjoy owning both :3gears:

[ATX]

Pride for one's country is great, but that only really applies to old cars. Honda Accords are built in America and the latest Camaros were being built in Canada.

I think the main problem are people's beliefs vs. actual car knowledge. Some people just can't grasp what makes a great performance vehicle - power, weight, brakes, suspension, etc.

If it works, it works... doesn't matter where it came from.

I would just as happily drive a Z06 Vette as I would a TT Supra. :Brow:

[70buick455]

Geeto, thanks for the lessons on facts. Again, I'm not being a "hater " of imports. I know some are fast, real fast. And yes I'm bias, I own a muscle car. My opinion is that These two catagories of cars should not be compared. Ones Lightweight and fast, the others are heavier, but built for power. I don't see imports as Powerful, Fast yes, but not tuff, powerful? I guess what really gets me about imports is that It seems that Most imports are built or designed to look fast and really pretty. You take an old Stage 1 out from under a pile of wood, dust it off, rust holes and rot, I still sence Power.

Geeto, I was being serious when I said thanks. Im no pro, but I do know I appreciate whatever info I can get.