Question about T/A cam # TA 212.

[anti-chevy]

I was just punching in a bunch of cam specs out of my T/A and PAW catalogs, into the desk top dyno and it looks like the TA 212 would be best. The only problem I see is that its going to make its max power at 5000 RPM, will a 350 hold up to 5000 - 5500 RPM ? Can I use my stock springs? Do I have to get adjustable push rods?What stall speed torque converter sould I go with 2200, 2600, 2800 ?

Thanks

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:I was just punching in a bunch of cam specs out of my T/A and PAW catalogs, into the desk top dyno and it looks like the TA 212 would be best. The only problem I see is that its going to make its max power at 5000 RPM, will a 350 hold up to 5000 - 5500 RPM ? Can I use my stock springs? Do I have to get adjustable push rods?What stall speed torque converter sould I go with 2200, 2600, 2800 ?

Thanks


I punched mine in as well, and from 5000-5500 its level. Yes a 350 will hold up at 5k. Mine has seen 5500 quite a few times, though I usually shift at 5000. Stock springs work ok, no problems here. I had a set I was going to drop in....too stiff for my liking. No adjustable push rods required, though if you still have the stock rockers in yet I recommend the TA rocker assemblies that are stamped steel.
I would go with the 2600 stall. The cam really doesn't start to make real power until about 3000. According to the dyno program a set of headers and low restriction mufflers would also gain you alot of lost power. I am still running the stock manifolds with low restriction exhaust, and even with that it runs pretty darn good.

[anti-chevy]

Mike Atwood said:


I punched mine in as well, and from 5000-5500 its level. Yes a 350 will hold up at 5k. Mine has seen 5500 quite a few times, though I usually shift at 5000. Stock springs work ok, no problems here. I had a set I was going to drop in....too stiff for my liking. No adjustable push rods required, though if you still have the stock rockers in yet I recommend the TA rocker assemblies that are stamped steel.
I would go with the 2600 stall. The cam really doesn't start to make real power until about 3000. According to the dyno program a set of headers and low restriction mufflers would also gain you alot of lost power. I am still running the stock manifolds with low restriction exhaust, and even with that it runs pretty darn good.

Thanks for the info!
Whats wrong with the stock rockers are they to weak?
What are you running in the 1/4 with your car?
I've all ready installed a set of hooker 1 3/4 super comp headers and a flowmaster 2.5" exhaust, They let the car breath ALOT better.

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:

Thanks for the info!
Whats wrong with the stock rockers are they to weak?
What are you running in the 1/4 with your car?
I've all ready installed a set of hooker 1 3/4 super comp headers and a flowmaster 2.5" exhaust, They let the car breath ALOT better.

The stock rocker are cast and tend to wear alot on the shaft girdles. mine had 100k miles on them, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to pull everything apart twice after i got done. I had a very light tick coming from the left rear of the engine, which turned out to be a cam lobe that was wore down quite a bit. Engine is nice and quiet now under the hood.
I haven't run the thing down the 1/4 mile yet, so that I don't know. I was hoping that the Kearney, NE event would be the first time for the car to run on a track, but due to me not being able to get the car there, that may not happen. I might have to run the wife's 97 LeSabre down the track :Do No: :grin:

[anti-chevy]

Mike Atwood said:

The stock rocker are cast and tend to wear alot on the shaft girdles. mine had 100k miles on them, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have to pull everything apart twice after i got done.

My motor was rebuilt and has less than 5000 mi. on it Im not sure if they replaced the shafts and rockers or not, but before the rebuild the car only had around 80,000 mi. on it, How do I check for wear? will a visual inspeaction be good enough?
Would I have to get new shafts too or just the rocker arms?

Thanks for the help.

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:

My motor was rebuilt and has less than 5000 mi. on it Im not sure if they replaced the shafts and rockers or not, but before the rebuild the car only had around 80,000 mi. on it, How do I check for wear? will a visual inspeaction be good enough?
Would I have to get new shafts too or just the rocker arms?

Thanks for the help.

You'll have to pull the rockers off to check em. Only a few bolts on each side anyways. Slide the rockers a little on the shafts and look for any type of wear on the shafts first. If there is grooving on the shaft I'd replace them. Also check the valve tip end of the rocker and also check each vale to make sure these parts are not severly worn or gouged . Part # TA 1316 is $139.00, and comes with new shafts, rockers, and retaining nylon buttons. Thats everything you need. These are for post 1969 engines, that have oiling through the pushrods.

[anti-chevy]

:beer Allright thanks!
One last thing wich intake is better the TA manifold or the Poston intake?

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said::beer Allright thanks!
One last thing wich intake is better the TA manifold or the Poston intake?

That one I can't tell you for sure, since I never tried the Poston intake. I just went by what a friend told me that "the TA stage 1 intake is the best inatke you can get that fits under the hood".

Anyone else running a Poston SBB intake?

[GS69350]

Have you looked into the Poston GS114 cam?
Its slightly more aggresive than the 212. I have it in my 350, I like it, even with the lower compression it still makes great power. Goes up to 5800 rpm, and yes the 350 can take it. The 350 is a VERY well designed block with the weakest point being the rod caps but unless you are going over 6500 I don't think they'd be a problem if installed properly.

Remember, most cars redline at 5500 rpm and several go higher, 5000 on a 350 isn't a big deal except its making so much power you better watch where you are going!!!

Most "high performance" 350 chevies have to rev over 6000 to make the kind of power our 350's do under 5000.

Dan

[anti-chevy]

GS69350 said:Have you looked into the Poston GS114 cam?
Its slightly more aggresive than the 212.Dan

I dont have a poston catalog yet, Can you give me the specs so I can type it into the Desk top dyno? in. and ex. lifts, in. and ex. advertised duration, and the centerlines.
Thanks.:)

[brblx]

how DO you get a poston catalog? i've looked for a website and found nothing, have you gotta call?

[GSXMEN]

David - Give them a quick call at 1-251-368-8577.:Comp:

Can't find a website - maybe Jim Burek will see this and post something for you.:)

[LARRY70GS]

Poston GS 350-114 cam, lobe center-114*, Adv duration-intake-270*, exhaust- 276*, lift intake-.480, exhaust-.485, power range 1500-5800, maximum RPM-7000

[cray1801]

Here's the website, or at least what I found. They have much more BB stuff than this link implies. http://members.aol.com/ideapage/poston/

[72skylark]

Okay, I was thinking about choosing this cam (TA212) also...
This is my setup-
72 Skylark 350/350TH
2.56 Gears
Stock Stall Speed
Engine is stock.
Heads will be home ported, then shaved and valve job by a shop.
Stock manifolds, "performance" Q-jet
Dual 2 1/2 exhuast
Will be using the TA stamped rockers and TA new springs

TA's description of the cam says stock converter/gear OK. Is it really? This is a daily driver, I just want some more power, and like my 2.56 gears. Any recomendations on advanceing the cam?
When you say it doesn't make any real power until 3000, what do you mean by real power? Is it a dog until 3k, or is it good under that and pull super after 3k?
Also I'm not sure how much to shave the head yet. I want atleast 9.5:1 CR. (Has 8.4 now) How much can I shave it before having to worry about getting shorter pushrods?
Thanks
-Nick

[Mike Atwood]

GS69350 said:Have you looked into the Poston GS114 cam?
Its slightly more aggresive than the 212. I have it in my 350, I like it, even with the lower compression it still makes great power. Goes up to 5800 rpm, and yes the 350 can take it. The 350 is a VERY well designed block with the weakest point being the rod caps but unless you are going over 6500 I don't think they'd be a problem if installed properly.

Remember, most cars redline at 5500 rpm and several go higher, 5000 on a 350 isn't a big deal except its making so much power you better watch where you are going!!!

Most "high performance" 350 chevies have to rev over 6000 to make the kind of power our 350's do under 5000.

Dan

It looks to me that the GS114 cam won't gain anything over the TA212 unless you want to wind your 350 past 5500rpm. Looks like you stand to lose alot of low end torque as well. The TA212 makes more HP and more torque until 5000rpm. After that the GS114 does a pretty decent job up until 6000. Looks like a 100ft lb difference at 2000.......hmmm.

[Mike Atwood]

72skylark said:Okay, I was thinking about choosing this cam (TA212) also...
This is my setup-
72 Skylark 350/350TH
2.56 Gears
Stock Stall Speed
Engine is stock.
Heads will be home ported, then shaved and valve job by a shop.
Stock manifolds, "performance" Q-jet
Dual 2 1/2 exhuast
Will be using the TA stamped rockers and TA new springs

TA's description of the cam says stock converter/gear OK. Is it really? This is a daily driver, I just want some more power, and like my 2.56 gears. Any recomendations on advanceing the cam?
When you say it doesn't make any real power until 3000, what do you mean by real power? Is it a dog until 3k, or is it good under that and pull super after 3k?
Also I'm not sure how much to shave the head yet. I want atleast 9.5:1 CR. (Has 8.4 now) How much can I shave it before having to worry about getting shorter pushrods?
Thanks
-Nick

With 2.56 gears I might be inclined to go with a converter. It runs great with the stock converter, but would really shine with a 2600-2800 unit. I am running 3.23's in mine.
It runs good from 1500-3000 then at about 3000 it pulls hard to 5000.
On the heads, I am not sure I would shave the heads to get compression. Personally, I would put some forged pistons in it instead, and keep the compression at or just below 10:1.

[GS69350]

Good idea to run the Dyno program... What values did you enter for compression?

350 hp seems a LOT more than actual.

I'd wager that my car would pull 225-250 on a chassis dyno. (based on 1/4 times).

I have a 70 9:1 350.

However I do like the torque curve on the 212...
Could you run that program with 112 vs 212?

[brblx]

question - my block, heads, and i assume pistons (i found a receipt from the prev owner for a block boring, so they may be .30 overs?) are stock from a 70 GS. does that automatically make it the high comp engine? did the skylark and gs engines run different compression?

btw, great thread, i think i'll be going with the 212 and new rockers.

but what about some of the TA cams not discussed? the C110, 118, and 113? how about the 310, is it a bit too strong?

[72skylark]

GS350 is the same as the plain 350. I believe any skylark or GS could have been ordered with the "hi compression" 350, which had 10.25:1 compression... right?
All other 350's had the same compression ratio in each year. Pre 71 have 9.?:1 and 71 and later had 8.4:1. I think.

Okay, I think I'm gonna go with the 212. I'll run it with my stock converter, and see where it starts pulling, and then decide if I want to up the stall speed. Thanks for the help!

[Mike Atwood]

GS69350 said:Good idea to run the Dyno program... What values did you enter for compression?

350 hp seems a LOT more than actual.

I'd wager that my car would pull 225-250 on a chassis dyno. (based on 1/4 times).

I have a 70 9:1 350.

However I do like the torque curve on the 212...
Could you run that program with 112 vs 212?

I'll run that and post a graph tonight when I get home. 350 hp isn't a "lot" really. Consider this, the car had 315 hp at the flywheel stock. So 35 added hp from a cam and intake isn't really very much. In fact I think the program is just a little conservative because it dropped the hp going from the single plane manifold to the dual plane model, in software. With a good set of headers and low restriction mufflers it rates at 375hp! Maybe santa will be kind this year! :Brow:

[Mike Atwood]

72skylark said:GS350 is the same as the plain 350. I believe any skylark or GS could have been ordered with the "hi compression" 350, which had 10.25:1 compression... right?
All other 350's had the same compression ratio in each year. Pre 71 have 9.?:1 and 71 and later had 8.4:1. I think.

Okay, I think I'm gonna go with the 212. I'll run it with my stock converter, and see where it starts pulling, and then decide if I want to up the stall speed. Thanks for the help!

The 70 had three versions of 350 you could have. The SP coded engine was rated 315hp/410ft lbs @ 4800rpm. The SB coded engine 285hp/375ft lbs @ 4600 rpm. And if someone by chance just swapped out a 4 bbl intake on an SO engine, it was rated 260hp/360ft lbs @ 4600 rpm with the 2bbl carb.
The first one was 10.25:1 and the last two were 9.0:1

It could have any one of these, but the 260hp version was 2 bll skylark.....unless it was transplanted into the GS.

[Mike Atwood]

OK...here is the comparison of the TA212 vs TA112 cam. All other components are stock and 10.25 comp. it looks like they are very close until about 4500 when the 212 starts to run away from the 112. If you wind it up to 5500rpm, the 212 is good for 25 more hp than the 112.

Here's da graph:

[anti-chevy]

Dose anybody have a guess as to what I'ld run in the 1/4 with the TA 212 cam, T/A intake,800cfm dbl. pumper, high volume fuel pump, A 2200 stall speed converter, a b+m shifter, and a shift kit ???
So far I've got lake wood No-hop bars, a 3.55 posi rear, a flow master 2.5" exhaust with an H-pipe, 1 3/4" super comp headers, K+N filter in a dual snorkel air cleaner, accel super coil, full tune up, and a Mr. G adv. curve kit ( < the best $12 I EVER SPENT!).


My desk top dyno comes up with 310 hp and 368 ftlbs. with 9:1 compression with the TA 212 cam. What dose your dyno say with 9:1, Mike? Ive got the old desk top dyno and Im not sure Its as accurate as yours is . Thanks again :TU:

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:Dose anybody have a guess as to what I'ld run in the 1/4 with the TA 212 cam, T/A intake,800cfm dbl. pumper, high volume fuel pump, A 2200 stall speed converter, a b+m shifter, and a shift kit ???
So far I've got lake wood No-hop bars, a 3.55 posi rear, a flow master 2.5" exhaust with an H-pipe, 1 3/4" super comp headers, K+N filter in a dual snorkel air cleaner, accel super coil, full tune up, and a Mr. G adv. curve kit ( < the best $12 I EVER SPENT!).


My desk top dyno comes up with 310 hp and 368 ftlbs. with 9:1 compression with the TA 212 cam. What dose your dyno say with 9:1, Mike? Ive got the old desk top dyno and Im not sure Its as accurate as yours is . Thanks again :TU:

I came up with 310 before I changed from manifolds to headers and low restriction exh. , After i added the headers it was past 350hp. I would figure your setup running mid 13's.

[anti-chevy]

Mike Atwood said:

I came up with 310 before I changed from manifolds to headers and low restriction exh. , After i added the headers it was past 350hp. I would figure your setup running mid 13's.

Im getting 310hp with the headers, wich heads do you type in on your dyno I was chosing the small block unported heads setting, wich cant be to accurate because I know a 350 buicks heads flow better than a 350 chevys, so sould I use either the small block pocket ported selection or the big block unported selection?

Is It safe to say I'ld be makeing 325hp?

The old single snorkel pee shooter air cleaner that I toke off had an old sticker that said 350 Hi-compression on it. Dose that mean my motor was a 315 hp 350? I tried to decode the block but some one replaced the block with a '72 peice. My motor only likes premium gas (it knocks bad with any thing less than 93) and it really LOVES octain booster or 100 octain turbo blue, could my motor possibly have 10.25:1 compression pistons in it?

[brblx]

i can't tell you how to find out, but if it does, you do indeed have the 315/410 350. you just have to remember that those are bare numbers, not what you're actually making at the wheels. (isn't wheel hp about 80-85% of bare?)

[anti-chevy]

brblx said:you just have to remember that those are bare numbers, not what you're actually making at the wheels. (isn't wheel hp about 80-85% of bare?)


:) Yep, I know, all Im looking for is the hp (on the motor)@ the flywheel .

[72skylark]

the 315 HP rating was the old style (gross). It was tested with no accesories and special dyno exhuast. Ratings 72(i think) and later where tested with accesories and real exhuast (net).
so real flywheel HP would be less, and rear wheel hp would be less than that.
One way to check is to use a compression gauge, most have a scale that says what PSI it should read for certain Compression Ratios. But be aware that this isn't very accurate because there are alot of variables involved...

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:

Im getting 310hp with the headers, wich heads do you type in on your dyno I was chosing the small block unported heads setting, wich cant be to accurate because I know a 350 buicks heads flow better than a 350 chevys, so sould I use either the small block pocket ported selection or the big block unported selection?

Is It safe to say I'ld be makeing 325hp?

The old single snorkel pee shooter air cleaner that I toke off had an old sticker that said 350 Hi-compression on it. Dose that mean my motor was a 315 hp 350? I tried to decode the block but some one replaced the block with a '72 peice. My motor only likes premium gas (it knocks bad with any thing less than 93) and it really LOVES octain booster or 100 octain turbo blue, could my motor possibly have 10.25:1 compression pistons in it?

I input the valve info into dyno 2000 for the Buick 350. I do not use the standard "small valve" settings built into the software. I would say that yes, you are probably making safely 325 hp. If it's a 72 block, it's probably 9.0:1 at best, more likely 8.5:1. you can check the two letter code on the deck on the drivers side, I think it's between #1 and #3 plug. Code for 70 is SP, SO, SB , for 72 would be WC, or WB, for 71 TB, TC, TD, TO are the codes.

I will attach the head flow file for stock 350:

[anti-chevy]

Mike Atwood said:

I input the valve info into dyno 2000 for the Buick 350. I do not use the standard "small valve" settings built into the software. I would say that yes, you are probably making safely 325 hp. If it's a 72 block, it's probably 9.0:1 at best, more likely 8.5:1. you can check the two letter code on the deck on the drivers side, I think it's between #1 and #3 plug. Code for 70 is SP, SO, SB , for 72 would be WC, or WB, for 71 TB, TC, TD, TO are the codes.

I will attach the head flow file for stock 350:

I already checked the code and it is a '72 block but I was wondering if some one could have put 10.25:1 pistons in it, or if they could even have used the old pistons from the '70 block.The rotateing assembly (crank, and rods) are all '70 stuff I beleive. Is there an accurate way of seeing what compression I have?

[Mike Atwood]

anti-chevy said:

I already checked the code and it is a '72 block but I was wondering if some one could have put 10.25:1 pistons in it, or if they could even have used the old pistons from the '70 block.The rotateing assembly (crank, and rods) are all '70 stuff I beleive. Is there an accurate way of seeing what compression I have?

Hmmm...I think there is a way by measuring cylinder pressure, but I am not too all sure that it's reliable.

[OLDS442GM]

Hey Mike just a bit of info, I have the same set up except for the intake, (i have the stock 4bbl intake) my car ran 14.9 @ 98. I had lots of problems that day too (bad points, down shift cable not adjusted right etc...) I was pretty satisfied the way the car moved out of the box, and the power was throught the entire RPM range untill 5500. Now that I have most of these problems fixed, I plan on giving it another pass in a month or two. I just have to get the car reinsured again in order to get it there! :laugh:

Larry