Removal and replacement of timing chain

[GoldBoattail455]

Well I got started on the timing chain replacement and tune-up for my 455. Thanks again Dana, & Bruce for walking me through the fan/clutch removal. :bglasses: :beer

First and most importantly was to disconnect and remove battery. Drained the radiator, all was green. Removed upper and lower radiator hoses. The lower one from the water pump to the lower end of the raidator had a spring the diameter of the hose that fits inside the hose and water pump. What is it and what does it do? Next removed fan, clutch and pulleys. Followed by the fan shroud, smog pump and alternator. I didnt get as much done as i'd like but i will remove the radiator, power steering pump and possibly water pump sometime soon. I managed to get 3 of the water pump bolts loose without breaking them. :grin: Also, my Electras fan gave me a kiss across my right index finger. :laugh: All in all it was a good day.

Some before and after of today.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture048.jpg
After
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture056.jpg
Lower radiator hose
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture054.jpg
Electra
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture055.jpg

[Smartin]

The spring in the lower hose is to keep it from collapsing under high suction.

Lookin' good, Rob! Keep the updates coming..:TU:

[GoldBoattail455]

Adam,
what process did you use for re-painting all those parts on the '60? Sand blast? Wire wheel? Is pb blaster expensive? Thanks :beer

[Smartin]

Lots of wire wheeling bolts and small parts, lots more sandpaper, scuff pads, and lots of paint thinner/acetone for cleaning before painting the parts. I wire wheel all the bolts on the bench grinder and then shoot a coat of clear on them to keep the rust from forming on the raw metal.

If I had a blaster, I would use it often. Especially for all the parts in the engine compartment where a wire wheel or even sandpaper is not a good option.


BP blaster is no more expensive than a can of paint. It's really good stuff, too.


Also, try to take pictures of all the brackets and bolt positions as you dismantle everything. This will give you a good reference point on where everything goes when you put it back together. I goofed on this step when I rebuilt the heads on the Centurion. I had to do some major guessing when it came to putting the AC and power steering stuff back on.

[D BERRY]

Rob

Your doing it right, get all the advice you can and follow all instructions to the letter, experiance is the best teacher. First engine I ever rebuilt I went by the advice I'd get from the old boys at work, and when I was done had a 3/8 fine thread nut left over in the coffee can. No plastic sandwich bags in those days. Looked like a rodbolt nut so I pulled the pan and they were all there, buttoned it back up and she ran fine. Still wonder where that nut came from. :Do No:

Dave Berry

[GoldBoattail455]

Thanks Adam. :TU: High temp paint from Eastwood should work? Or equal Krylon high temp? Do i need to degrease most of the parts? :Do No:

Dave,
Thanks. Im trying to take everything nice a slow even though i really want to get it rolling. I can already see that the bolts for the timing chain and water pump will be a problem. Im only missing one of the shroud bolts and thats it, it might have fallen down elsewhere when i was removing the fan & clutch assembly. I'll keep you updated. :3gears:

[Smartin]

Degrease everything you poissibly can. If you have not gotten all the grease off the part, then the paint will fisheye.

For Buick Red, go to a parts store and find Duplicolor DH 1608 high heat paint. It's the 1200* stuff.

For all the pulleys, just find a good semi-gloss black. I have found that the same Duplicolor hi temp semi gloss black works great. I think they call it Ford Black. DH 1635? maybe...

Also, I use the hi temp clear from Duplicolor to shoot the bolts when I run them over the wire wheel.

[dcm422]

Some things I do to help if you ever have to do it again are:
Anti-sieze on the water pump bolts and on the un-threaded part of the long bolts. This prevents them from getting stuck in the cover. Use some type of gasket sealer on the threads of the timing cover bolts as most (if not all) go into the water jacket of the block. This prevents leaks. Indian head gasket shellac or permatex (#2, I think) will do as well.
It would also be a good idea to use loctite blue or red on the 2 bolts that hold the cam gear. Make sure all the threads are clean (laquer thinner or brake clean) and apply the loctite to the bolts before torquing them. Sure would hate to have them come loose.
Use some blue RTV on the corners of the timing cover where it seals to the oil pan. The gasket kit should include the front part of the pan gasket and you want to make sure it doesn't leak where it attaches to the old part of the gasket.
Tighten the cover bolts down before trying to put in the 4 pan bolts that go into the cover. This should line the cover up to the pan and make getting them in easier. Aluminum covers cross thread easily.
Get a good front seal and install it properly. Rope seals are difficult to install and the rubber front seals need to be installed correctly. Don't forget the oil slinger on the crank.
Change the oil before start up, good chance you got coolant in the oil when you removed the cover.
Just my 2 cents,
Mark

[GoldBoattail455]

Can i remove the cover with the water pump still attached to it? Or are there bolts that go through the water pump into the block? Going to go remove it now. Also, where do I take antifreeze? :Do No:

[GoldBoattail455]

Found out i can. So while a few of the bolts got a spray of penetrating oil and are sitting i will update you guys. Got two of the timing cover bolts completely loose, the ones that go through the water pump. Fuel pump is disconnected by still hanging there by the metal line. Same goes for PS pump.

To loosen the bolts, do i just keep spraying penetrating oil on them and working them back and forth until they come loose? :Do No: :confused:

Also, what does it mean when my distributor shaft does not move when i crank the car? The timing chain couldn't possibly be completely off, could it? :Do No: Thanks

[dcm422]

There are a couple of reasons why the dist. won't move when you turn the motor over. All, not too good.
If the cam gear is worn so much that the dist. won't turn, then you have an oil pan full of the plastic teeth and maybe even some aluminum debris from the gear under the plastic.
If the chain broke, there could also be pieces in the pan or the chain could have damaged the timing cover.
A broken dist. gear pin or stripped gear/camshaft can cause the dist. to not turn as well.
Don't panic at this point, just get things apart and look at what happened. The most likely thing is that the cam gear is worn and won't be turned when the crank is moved.
Why did you decide to do the chain? Did the car stop running suddenly or did you just have sloppy timing?
Several years ago, I went through this on my 67 GS400 due to sloppy timing. Just couldn't get it set right as it always changed. Took the cover off and found that there was NO plastic on the cam gear. Was able to remove the chain by just lifting it off the gear. How the car ran at that point was baffling. :Do No:
Had to pull the motor as the oil pan was filled with the plastic from the gear. It is the only safe thing to do when the gear is worn that badly.
See what happens when you get the timing cover off and a get a good look at things.

Good Luck,
Mark

[67Rag]

All....

I'm in the middle of taking of my timing cover because I snapped two of the 4 bolts in the block while changing my water pump. The only way is as you were saying, lots of oil, back and fourth, and if you have a blunt point use your air chisel and vibrate the heck out of it. This will also help free the bolts up.

Believe me when I say it’s not easy task. It took me 3 days!

Good Luck.

Andy

[buick64203]

Don't forget the oil slinger on the crank.



lol! Thats a very good point Mark! . Done that a couple of times! And its always when you get the timing cover gaskets lined up perfectly too. You look back on the workbench and that stupid oil slinger is sitting there staring back at you. :Dou:

[GoldBoattail455]

Alright, I confirmed it was in fact the timing chain. Removed the distributor and it spins freely, but put it back in and it wont budge. Also the cam gear appears to be fine, can't see if there is a isnt a chain down there. Looks like the front end will be removed. :( :ball:

[buick64203]

When installed, the distributor will not turn unless the cam is turning. Good chain or not. Once removed, it will spin free. You really cant go by that.

[buick64203]

[EDIT] I didnt see the previous post that the distributor was not turning while cranking! Sounds like you might be taking the oil pan down too

[GoldBoattail455]

Why?

[buick64203]

As Mark said, at best, the plastic timing gear teeth have probably fallen into the pan. Once there, they clog the oil pickup screen and starve the engine for oil. The demise of the cam bearings in my 69 Riv! At worst, the remnants of the broken chain (and teeth) are in the bottom of the pan. But before we get ahead of ourselves, pull the timing cover. Looks like your almost there. From your posts, I'd say you have about another ten minutes of work to get the cover off. Go to it! :TU:

[GoldBoattail455]

I have been told several times by different people, the nylon(plastic) ended in 1969. My engine is a '73 so i shouldn't have to worry about that. 10 minutes!? Your crazy, maybe if i break the other 8 bolts off it could come out in ten minutes. :laugh:

[dcm422]

Sorry to disagree, but Buick used the nylon gear long after 69. Motors I have taken apart had them up to 76 and beyond.
The 1969 confusion may come from Pontiac motors which used the nylon gear only up to then. I worked at Pontiac in 74 and they wore the nylon gears much worse than Buick.
Without a special tool that the dealer had, there was no way to get the pan off in a Pontiac without removing the motor. Dealerships were eating the warranty costs and the change was made to steel pieces so that the gears would last.
Am still willing to bet that your cam gear is worn down with no teeth and the chain is just passing over it and not moving the cam. This is causing the distributor to not turn.
Once you get the cover off, it should be evident as to what the problem is.

Mark

[GoldBoattail455]

Mark i'll bet you 1 beer of your choice, but the thing is you have to wait 5 years for it. :Brow: You up for it?

Got a snap-on puller for the harmonic balancer, all my craftsman tools made hissing noises when i brought it in.....still wondering why. :laugh: Also got some PB Blaster and engine degreaser to clean it up a bit. Alternator bracket, power steering bracket, upper and lower a/c brackets were put in the parts washer today at school. Came out great and my auto teacher it letting my sandblast them there. :grin: Tomorrow I work.....but not at work, on my car for once. :3gears:

[dcm422]

Rob,
I can wait for the beer. :Brow: You shouldn't need a puller for the balancer as it should come out by hand in most cases. You did remove the big washer behind the balancer bolt, right? There is always a thick washer under the bold. No puller in the world will get the balancer off if you didn't as the puller will push against the washer and not the crank.
Hope all goes well,

Mark

[GoldBoattail455]

The pulleys are still on the crank. Once I remove the 4 nuts holding on the pulleys there will be a crank bolt? Wait, the crank bolt is in the center of the pulleys? :confused:

[dcm422]

Ok, the lower pulley has 6 bolts that hold it on. In the center of the balancer is a BIG bolt, want to say 1 1/8 inch socket, that you need to remove in order the get the balancer off. Under that large bolt is a thick flat washer that is used to secure the balancer. The bolt and washer must be removed in order to get the balancer off. Most times, a puller is not necessary.
A trick to getting the big nut off is to remove the pulley. Get a large breaker bar with the correct socket on the bolt with the bar either on the ground or against the frame. Then just tap the key and the rotation of the motor will break the bolt loose. You want the breaker bar secure and not swinging around when you do this. It also needs to be perpendicular to the crank so that it won't slip off the bolt. Give it some thought and it will be clear what you need to do.
An air gun will work too, but needs to be a strong one as the bolt is at 200 ft/lb minimum. It may also be difficult to get the gun in there with the motor in the car.

Mark

[GoldBoattail455]

Alright. Radiator and cover is out along with pulleys. The harmonic balancer bolt will not break loose. Any ideas? :Do No: Feel free to call also. 630-890-6557

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the harmonic balacer bolt, washer and harmonic balancer off!. 5 out of ten timing cover bolts are out and not broken. 1 that i had trouble with has a setion of threads that rusted together and all along the smooth part of the bolt. 5 to go, wish me luck!

Also, when removing harmonic balancer dont put pinky finger inbetween that and steering linkage. :rant: :o :Dou: :laugh:

P.S. PB blaster > all :)

[Smartin]

We're all itching to know what lies under that timing cover!:shock:

[GoldBoattail455]

1 bolt to go. Still being stubborn, one that goes through the water pump and into the block. None of the other bolts have broken.

[GoldBoattail455]

Alright. That 1 last bolt is partially out, maybe out about 9/16. The head is stripped and it will turn. I put the other bolts of the same size in to see weather it was still in the threads or not and it is not. So now i have to pull, whats a good way to do this?

[D BERRY]

By last bolt I presume you mean the last bolt that goes through the timing cover and/or water pump. And did you get the hidden bolt on the cover near the bottom passenger side? I've seen covers broken because guys forgot that bolt. I'd start by clamping some Vise Grips on the bolt under the head of the boltand using a hammer to tap the bolt out. If it's stuck in the cover real good the cover may come off with the bolt still in it. If it does then you can drive out the bolt from the back of the cover.

Dave Berry

[GoldBoattail455]

Im done, but it took 12.5 hours. I left the last bolt as is because i checked the length with the other bolts i had already removed and figured out the threads are no longer in the block but in the timing cover. The last thing that hung me up was the bolt on the passenger side oil pan. Covered in grease, grime, dirt so i kept looking right over it. :Dou: AND most of all.......(drumroll please) none of the bolts broke off in the block! :grin:

Now for the fun stuff. :Brow: My timing chain comes right off for easy removal. :puzzled: It appears as though where the camshaft gear mounts, the bolts snapped clean off. Or undid themselves and the bolts fell down. Kinda half asleep here so i dont remember what happened ten minutes ago or what i should have looked for. :error: :laugh: Thanks for everyones help, here and on the phone. :TU: :beer

After radiator cover, radiator, pulleys and harmonic balancer assembly came off.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture064.jpg
Anybody want a nice, removable timing chain? $50 :moonu:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture067.jpg
Straight enough right?
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture068.jpg
Im contamplating parts washing and then sandblasting this. Is it safe for aluminum? I will repaint it for sure. Not entirely sure what i have to do to R & R the timing cover. :Do No:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture069.jpg

[D BERRY]

Do not sand blast aluminum, it will eat up the surface. I'd just parts wash it then go over it with lacquer thinner, which cleans everything. Don't know if anyones mentioned it or not but you need to check the area of the cover behind the water pump. This area can have corrosion which can eat right through the cover. Nice pics, I notice you've got the one indispensible tool that every mechanic needs, hammer!

Dave

[dcm422]

Looks like you had a lot of fun there. :rant: Appears that the timing chain/gears have been replaced before as the cam gear does not look original. Suggest you look at the camshaft to see if the two bolt heads snapped off.
My guess is that the bolts just came loose and fell off (didn't figure on this one as they should have used loctite on the threads). Not a good thing, but maybe not too terrible. If they fell off, they could have worked their way into the pan or be stuck on the #1 main journal cap. Get the chain and crank gear off and take a look.
If they broke off, the ends are stuck in the cam and need to be removed. Drilling and tapping is impossible with the cam still in the motor. Easy-outs may work.
Either way, you need to check on possible damage to the pistons from the cam stopping if the motor was running. Can't recall if you said it was running or you were just cranking it over when this happened.
Things need to be checked before suggestions can be made at this point. The question of where the bolts (or bolt heads) are needs to be answered. Also, it looks like the timing chain job was not done properly. The question of why it was replaced and if there are plastic pieces in the oil pan may be an issue.
Hopefully someone didn't just replace the chain/gears and leave the chunks in the pan.
As to cleaning the timing cover, NO sandblasting. Part washer fluid or mineral spirits is the way to go. You can get mineral spirits at Walmart if you need some.
The next problem will be getting the 6 bolts (1 under the oil filter) that hold the oil filter cover on the timing cover. Looks like you got enough grease there, but they still could be rusted in. Soak them well in PB blaster and try to get them out. The often stick in the housing and the heads snap off.
Sorry, but you've got some work ahead of you.

Good Luck,
Mark

[dcm422]

Dave,
The chassis manual doesn't use the word hammer. The correct definition is to use a "suitable tool". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Mark

[actionhank99]

Dave,
The chassis manual doesn't use the word hammer. The correct definition is to use a "suitable tool". :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Mark

Hammer = Engineers screwdriver :Brow: :Brow:

[Billy]

Well it does not look too bad. The camshaft gear looks ok. Is the timing chain gear plastic.... From what i can see its a steel one. Well check the bolt threads on on the camshaft and see if the bolts broke off or just came loose and fell out. If they broke off that might not be a good sign of things to come..... If they came loose and fell out it might be as simple as putting the cam back in time and installing the bolts back in with lock tight". I would still pull the oil pan and clean it out. Good luck on the venture.

Billy.

[furiousgoat]

Rob,

I would definately recommend an impact wrench. Not sure if your project is at school or at home. The hammering effect of an impact wrench will zip that baby right off, as long as it's a good wrench and you have an excellent air source, of course the new electric impacts are also pretty impressive and should tackle the job.

My old shop teacher used to let the trustworthy students borrow the expensive tools with the understanding that we would use them immediately and return them just as fast.

Pretty cool to see you are working on projects like this at the age of 15! Reminds me of all the old cars I used to work on in Auto shop. It's even more amazing that you have a forum like this to use as a reference as you go along. I think our school had just gotten the internet my Senior year (1994) Not to mention there sure wasn't much on the 'net back then either. Other than a buch of stuffy college professors. Opps! sorry to get so side tracked.

[Billy]

You have enough sludge there to lubricate a small block chevy.... :laugh:

Billy.

[rex362]

12.5 hrs.....if this is your first major repair....thats not bad at your age(or any age)...its better 2 go slow....I bet you the next timing chain would take you 3-4 hrs....of course with no bolt problems....

..anyways find your bolts with threads......check pan....and its a good time 2 clean up that grime and maybe detail the compartment a bit...

[GoldBoattail455]

Rex, you mean to tell me the BCA doens't add points for that? :laugh: Your welcome to come on over and dig in! :moonu:

Next, this week i will be running a check to see if i have leaks in the valves.

[GoldBoattail455]

Found the missing shroud bolt so as of right now everything is ok, but not great.

Also got the alternator bracket, a/c bracket(the one that covers it) and the power steering bracket sandblasted and shot 1 coat of clear on. MAN did they turn out nice with just the clear coat! :shock: Can't believe how nice a sandblaster works, also leaves the surface of the part much nicer. Im so getting a blaster for my garage. :grin: The lower A/C bracket isnt quite done yet. The hardest was the A/C bracket that kinda covers the compressor.

Now to move onto the timing cover. I figure a good wire wheel, clear coat and then high temp buick red will do the trick. Right? :Do No:

[Smartin]

Quick question - why are you clearcoating the parts before you paint them?


PS - I'm jealous you have access to a blaster. I NEEEEEED one!!!:spank: Right now my face looks like I was born in a coal mine, after using the wire wheel on the bench grinder all night on parts.

[GoldBoattail455]

You said it yourself. That way they wont rust right away. You are doing it on the '60. A flat high temp black will go over that in 2-3 coats probably.

My eyes arent hurting that bad but someone before me had shot the window when the plastic wasn't on the glass so there are 2 small spots you can see in before it all goes completely invisible. Sand dies down and start again. My chest hurts more from leaning against the eastwood emblem though. :laugh:

You do know P.O.R. 15 also makes a really great paint stripper?

[Smartin]

I'm only clearcoating the parts that are staying bare.

All the parts that get painted, will be immediately painted the color they are supposed to be.

I started on the Buick Green parts tonight, and a few other semi-gloss black parts now that I finally got the parts and paint shipped from CARS. Man, they are sloooooow.

[GoldBoattail455]

Ever realize how many stampings, marks and symbols gm put on just the power steering bracket? :Brow: I can with the blaster now. Also, dont you love it when the wires shoot out from the wheel? :error:

I'll remember that, CARS = slow. :laugh:

[GoldBoattail455]

Got a few parts in, the gasket set from Felpro and two belts, the rest will come when I order it.

I just removed the timing chain and cam gear. Found one cam bolt teetering on the oil pan about to fall it, but i rescued it, and found the other floating in the timing cover. I think they are the bolts, about half inch long and possibly half inch head? I think im going to clean up the intake alot! Remove the carb and box it up for storage, remove the valve covers and inspect the rockers as best i can from there for now. The crank timing gear is as dry as the desert. :Dou:

Can I use a wire wheel on the timing cover? :Do No:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture070.jpg

[GoldBoattail455]

Just removed carb as it is going to be replaced with a rebuilt one. Didnt like the idea that only rags would be where the carb was so i fabbed up a wood intake cover. :Brow: While removing some of the hoses from the carb, they were so dryed out they just snapped as if it was plastic. :error: Back to the garage! :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture075.jpg

[Smartin]

I LOVE progress pics:grin:

[GoldBoattail455]

I like 'em too. The '60 is coming out alot cleaner than mine. Gotta return the engine degreaser and get simple green. :)

Made a bit of progress. Cap and wires are off, i never really got around to marking the wires until the became in the way for everything I did.

My driver's side head reads: 2
4P 1241850 (probably not stage 1? stage 2? :laugh: )

Removed the "wanna be hei" unit from passenger fenderwell. And it seems the mechanics put two bolts underneath the unit tha obviously belong to the engine, possibly a/c. Not to mention the bolts lying on the lower a/c bracket when I got it. Removed one of the a/c lines. Some oil came out after I put it on the floor but the R/12 is probably long gone. Still have one more to do and Im not sure how. (the one with the 1 1/8 nut attached to firewall box. Found and removed grease from positive and negative battery cables. Was going to remove the heater hoses but wasn't sure if there a continous hose through the firewall or not? :Do No: Removed fuel pump. Also, whats that thing laying on my drivers inner fenderwell with a bunch of vacuum lines attached to it and what does it do? Pulled the valve cover on driver side, got the number, inspected valves as best as i could, seem ok. Although the rockers move side to side just a tiny bit, but only some of them. None of them appear to be broken. I think I may just go forward with the work and worry about it if it presents itself. I havent cleaned the front of the engine as I would have liked to but thats because i dont want anything falling inside the heads or oil pan. Maybe when i put the cover back on, the simple green and a hard bristle brush will meet the engine. I forgot to take the pictures of the brackets. :Dou: Im bringing the timing cover to work to clean it, and possibly to school for the parts washer.

Adam, does your motor consume any oil since your heads have been redone? I was told if i had them redone i run the risk of hurting the bottom end(rings) because there more compression now.

Head
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture076.jpg
engine
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture077.jpg

[Mister T]

Also, whats that thing laying on my drivers inner fenderwell with a bunch of vacuum lines attached to it and what does it do?

Rob, if that thing is what I think it is, it should be your cruise control unit. Looks like it has one cable going to the transmission, and one going to the speedometer. I'm not 100% certain as to what the vaccum lines actually do, only that they operate the system.

[Smartin]

My motor consumes very little oil - typical of a 35 year-old engine with 85xxx miles on it. The only time I notice when I consume oil, is when I'm running at 2800-3000 RPM on long road trips. I have to put a quart in every 1000 miles or so on those trips. Otherwise, I never even have to top it off when driving around town.

Don't worry about more compression - unless you have your heads milled a LOT (which you shouldn't) you should not have to worry about more compression. I had mine milled .010 to flatten out the surfaces. This is not enough to even worry about.

[buick64203]

Adam, does your motor consume any oil since your heads have been redone? I was told if i had them redone i run the risk of hurting the bottom end(rings) because there more compression now.

Adam, what i think he means is that some compression gets lost through the guides and seals on worn heads. When the heads get redone, he's going to reclaim any lost compression back into the cylinders. I've had that happen on very high mileage cars. Makes more oil blow past the rings. I turned an 80 Caddy into a oil burning pig with a set of reconditioned heads. But that engine had 217,000 miles on it.

Rob...I learned a very valuable lesson in my years of spinning wrenches...If it's not broken, dont fix it.

[Smartin]

I see...

I hadn't heard of that before.:Do No:

It's not a real high compression motor enayway, I don't imagine it'll make that much of a problem, depending on how worn the rest of the engine is.

[GoldBoattail455]

Thanks for the clarification Jason, and older auto parts guy at work was telling me this and I wasn't quite sure what he meant exactly. "if it ain't broke dont fix it" That really makes me about it, why do it? I guess i just am getting overly worried as I want to only do this once. You wouldn't happen to be spinning snap on, i know craftsman grips it well. :pp :moonu: :laugh:

Thanks Tom, it makes sense now that i've seen it on some cars and not others.

The local auto parts store can re-do both of them for me for only $150. I will find out what that $150 gets me though. And its not a pep girls, or autozone local store, its an old independent store. :) Also where im getting everything else, besides the new bolts for the buick.

Are oil pressure gauges difficult to install? I need to get the Autometer Oil, Water combo.

And nobody wants to tell me if my heads are Stage 1 or not? Fat chance they are! :laugh:

[Smartin]

Stage1 heads carry the same casting number as standard valve heads. You will not know unless you pull the heads to look. I don't believe Electras ever had the option for a HiPo 455, but there are always exceptions. Money makes things happen at the dealer (at least it used to)..

[GoldBoattail455]

Brought the timing cover to work as I remembered we had a Zep parts washer in the corner. My boss said it didnt work, but it actually did. So i cleaned the entire cover in the parts washer. Most of the paint on the cover is gone along with the oil. Oil filter is still stuck on. But the good news is the drain is slow so there the parts washer has 3 inches of oil in it at a time. So i'd lay it down when a customer came in and 30 minutes later i came back and did the same. I thought o myself I should remove the water pump, I did and every bolt is loose. Tomorrow it will be removed. Only 1 broke and that was when it was just removed from the car. :Dou: A trip to napa will allow me to get buick red high temp paint.

[EEE]

Looks like you're diggin deep.. Seeing what you're up to makes me worry about not having a proper garage. Pheeeww...

[GoldBoattail455]

Don't you mean not worry? :Do No:

[EEE]

Well, if I would do that operation here, it would be in the open.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got a few parts in. Water pump, gasket set, timing chain and gears, oil pump rebuild kit.

Now I will paint the valve covers, water pump, timing cover and thermostat elbow at work today. :) The timing cover will need to be cleaned a bit more, still a few places where paint remains. The driver's side valve cover was oily, the passenger on the other hand is something else! :puzzled:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture079.jpg

Timing cover
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture080.jpg

Water pump, thinking about returning this and buying an nos one.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture081.jpg

Looked up the code yesterday and it was one of the first threads. Thanks guys. :TU:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture082.jpg

[Smartin]

Keep the new pump and install it. Lord knows how "good" the NOS pump is. Plus, you get a warranty with the new one.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the water pump, thermostat elbow and wiring harness piece painted. 1 valve cover needs a little bit more wire wheeling. Im really mad because the water pump i put in a box with the other parts and it hit the paint and took it off. :af: I touched it up but I think the high temp from the engine will start to peel the paint away in those small areas. :blast: :spank: The only good thing is I only used 1/2 a can of paint.

[GoldBoattail455]

Made some progress today. I removed the intake and am glad I did. The intake it stripped of parts and will be sent out to be cleaned/sandblasted then repainted by me for a very resonable price. I found a TON of sludge buildup in the block around the rods and metal gasket. Thats why im glad I opened her up. The weight of the intake suprised me, must weigh half my weight! :shock: But I got it out and on the ground without damage. I will have to dump some oil all over the camshaft before I button the intake back on. I will also be ordering new bolts. I need to get 6 point sockets.
First look
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture084.jpg
Sludge
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture085.jpg
And more
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture086.jpg
And the black is the big chunks I removed
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture087.jpg
Bit of rust in the water jacket
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture089.jpg
There she lies
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture090.jpg

[Smartin]

What a mess!


Did you call Ralph?? If you didn't, I'm gonna call him myself and run over there with some money:laugh::moonu:

[70aqua_custom]

obviously the last owner was too busy to have the oil changed. I hate to think what the oil pan and pickup screen look like. YUK!

[GoldBoattail455]

Andy I will find out what the oil pan looks like later this week. Fun! Wanna come and help? :Brow:

Adam,
No I didnt call as I got to busy but will call tomorrow. By the time I got inside I figured it might be to late to call. But if you plan on doing that just expect to have your centurion pay for your actions! :spank: :spank: :pp BTW his name is Marvin. :moonu:

[armyguy298]

Scareing up all that crud in the valvetrain area could quite possibly be the death of your engine. Make positively certain that none of it falls into the engine. Whatever does fall in there will clog your oil pickup and starve the motor for oil. Dont even think about starting it unless you have that oil pressure gauge hooked up.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got some of the sludge buildup out, and more to come out. I noticed that I can see my camshaft. Should I be able to? Im wondering because the holes are all evenly spaced and look to follow some pattern but the edges are sharp? :confused: I havent found any metal bits and hope to keep it that way.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture096.jpg

[rex362]

in the last pic ....is that an indentation on the 3rd cam lobe..??

[Fragzem]

Rob

Your doing it right, get all the advice you can and follow all instructions to the letter, experiance is the best teacher. First engine I ever rebuilt I went by the advice I'd get from the old boys at work, and when I was done had a 3/8 fine thread nut left over in the coffee can. No plastic sandwich bags in those days. Looked like a rodbolt nut so I pulled the pan and they were all there, buttoned it back up and she ran fine. Still wonder where that nut came from. :Do No:

Dave Berry

That's the nut that originally came with the coffee can. Remember? You saved the can because you were going to write to the company about the nut you found in it.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the intake back in tonight. Not much trouble, only one minor adjustment. re-used 8 bolts and used 4 new ARP bolts courtesy of TA. Thanks to JW, the "Good Stuff" really seems to work awesome. But it seems to like my arms and hands more than i like it. :Dou: Thanks also to Adam for advice on the valley pan gasket. New valley pan gasket went in pretty easy, but the manifold was another story. I weigh 110 lbs on a GOOD day! :laugh: This intake must weigh about 75lbs, one man job just me lifting it in and trying to position it. The first try I pushed both end gaskets off but quickly put them back and got the intake to sit right. Bolts went in ok and are torqued to 55-60 lbs. Intake looks sweet! :bglasses: The block where the push rods are at is pretty clean, as best i could get it. The heads were pretty clean but not perfect. The only thing i regret is pouring some oil on the camshaft before buttoning it all up. No pic of the final product, the camera lens got blurry. This was a great day today! Just a few more steps and she ougta be laying rubber along side the parts car, seriously! :grin: :3gears:

The parts car patiently waiting for its sister so they can do a burnout together. :3gears:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture099.jpg

Before and after valley pan gasket
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture100.jpg

Driver's side head
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture102.jpg

Passenger side head
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture101.jpg

[Smartin]

Get the camera back out and clean the lens!!! Take the picture and post it:moonu:

I'll be right back with your timing cover pic...

[Smartin]

Here she is:

Don't mind the FRAM filter. It's a dummy filter...cheater's way of masking the oil pump off. :spank:

[Mister T]

Not to be a party pooper Rob, but you DID remember to remove those old rags from the heads before the intake went on............................didn't you. :laugh: :Dou: :TU:

[buick64203]

Hope you remembered to take all the paper towels out of the engine before putting the intake on! Did you use any hi-tack on the valley pan? I usually spray both sides with hi-tack and run a very small bead of silicone around the four water jackets.

[GoldBoattail455]

Does it matter that I am missing one bolt, even though i will put it in when i get it? :Do No: :Dou: Im worried if when i get it and torque it down the rtv will have dryed so it will crack and be useless in that section of the intake. Any thoughts? :error:

[Smartin]

you'll be fine...

Not to worry. It may squeeze it a HAIR more ,but it is pliable so that it will be good.

[GoldBoattail455]

The intake! :grin:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture.jpg

[GoldBoattail455]

Finnally got my homework done in school so I had a chance to get working. Winter is coming too fast. I had to sit in my parts car and warm up every 30 minutes, im glad it runs. :Brow: Got the front part of the engine a little more clean, mainly the heads and part of the block. I hope it turns out nice and it won't look bad with dirty sides of the engine and top & front are nice and clean. :( Im still contamplating painting the bolts red, or leaving them the black. :Do No:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture105.jpg

The timing cover, water pump mock-up.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture108.jpg

[Smartin]

How close does that red on the timing cover match the water pump? If you need to shoot another coat on it, go ahead. In the picture, it looks a little darker than the pump. I put 4 coats on it, so it SHOULD be as red as it gets. Paint does weird things though.

Looks good!!

[GoldBoattail455]

I'll shoot another coat or two on it and see what happens. Im going to have to start painting in the house............Yes! :laugh: Seems fine though, the color that is. Not much left till she purrs! :Brow: :3gears:

[MR.BUICK]

Lookin' great Rob! Nice work! :TU: :bglasses:

[Smartin]

You're using the DH1608, right? If you're not, then I'd think again about putting another coat on the timing cover. Dissimilar paints don't like each other.:Dou:

[GoldBoattail455]

Yup, DH1608. If I paint it would be the pump, not the cover.

Thanks Cody. :)

[Smartin]

Cool...looking forward to seeing it come together!

[GoldBoattail455]

Anyone know how to take off the crankshaft gear? :Do No:

[D BERRY]

Believe it or not they usually they just slide off, mine did both times I took it off.

Dave B

[GoldBoattail455]

Cool, thanks Dave.

[GoldBoattail455]

Did a few little things today. Got the old crank gear off, removed old valve cover gaskets, cleaned all dirt/grime/gaskets off the front of the block, painted intake manifold bolts, ordered new pcv valve, egr valve, TSC solenoid etc, cleaned out heads as best as I could. Tomorrow I plan on puttin the chain and gears on, setting the crank and cam so the timing marks are aligned, put on the timing cover and button it up. From there its just fluids, hoses, tune-up parts, detailing and a rebuilt carb.

[GoldBoattail455]

Ordered a new EGR valve ($44), PCV Valve ($3), TCS solenoid ($30), and some supplies. Found out I can't use the neoprene front seal from TA and will go with the stock rope seal. :mad: The entire gasket set for the timing cover is wrong so I had them order one for a Buick 455 instead of the Pontiac or Oldsmobile they gave me. Second time the gave me the wrong 455 gaskets. Lets see, 1 day wasted and i have the same amount of f***ing time as if i actually went to school! :af: :af: :af: :blast: :blast: :blast:

[buick64203]

Why cant you use the neoprene seal?

[GoldBoattail455]

Because I either have to machine my timing cover or risk cracking the aluminum. It would be nice if I had know about this in advance, the directions stated no machining and the seal is much bigger than the opening. :spank:

Went BACK to the parts store and got the right timing cover gasket set for buick 400, 430, 455. When installing a rope seal should I soak it in oil first before fitting it? :Do No: Thanks :TU:

[buick64203]

hmmm...thats interesting. Never heard that you had to machine the timing cover. All the ones Ive installed just banged right in. This is the one that has the metal ring and kinda looks like a brake rotor grease seal right?

[GoldBoattail455]

Brought the number 1 cylinder up to TDC. Put the timing cover and harmonic balancer on to adjust perfectly to 0 degrees. Got it at 0, removed timing cover and balancer. Removed cam gear and chain, lined up cam gear with crank then put cam gear and chain back on, loctite both bolts and torqued to 22 ft. lbs. Test fitted the timing cover, and gaskets. Trimmed gaskets. Put gaskets down, put on timing cover and started with the longest bolts to the shortest. The 4 shortest bolts in the oil pan and very bottom of front cover got me confused so I put them in and will pick up next week. Did not torque timing cover bolts yet. It went ok, the only problem is the bolts (brand new ARP) got really tight to put in towards the end and I felt like they were going to snap. The timing cover has a chip in one of the water pump bolts. Right now im very displeased with how the whole thing went. Bad day. :mad: :(

[GoldBoattail455]

Im gone this entire weekend which kinda stinks but hopefully next week will go better.

Water pump buttoned up.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture112.jpg

Timing marks aligned
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture118.jpg

Chain and gears on
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture120.jpg

Cover on
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture123.jpg

[D BERRY]

Did anyone mention cleaning out the bolt holes with a tap, I always chase all bolt holes with a tap before reassembly, flat bottom taps for blind holes. Also are the ARP bolts the same length as the stock bolts? Did I miss something, why did you buy ARP bolts any???

Dave Berry :confused:

[GoldBoattail455]

No mention of a tap. I bought arp bolts through TA performance because nearly all the old ones had no threads left, they were rusted.

[buick64203]

Rust gets packed in the threads of the timing cover bolts. It only looks like the threads are gone. Especially the long ones. If you were to wire wheel the bolts, they would look good as new. Tapping the bolt holes is a very good idea. Putting some anti sieze on the threads is also wise. Why dont I see any sealer on that timing cover gasket? :puzzled: I usually spray them down with hi-tack on both sides

[GoldBoattail455]

I was told no sealer and no rtv was needed.

[Smartin]

Who told you that? (Doesn't seem to make much sense) Did you install it already? or is the picture a mockup?

[GoldBoattail455]

Everyone told me no sealer is needed. The cover is on and bolted in with most of the bolts, not torqued and no loctite was used so it won't be hard to remove them if nessecary. The smaller bolts confused me because of the number I took out vs. what the service manual says vs. what new bolts i got. Im not sure if I have enough bolts or not, pretty sure I dont.

[R_DAVY]

Hey Rob
you just need sealer on the bolts that go into the water jacket. I have taps if you need them.

[GoldBoattail455]

Davy, I'll need those taps too. Thanks. :)

[R_DAVY]

Just give me a call when your ready.

[GoldBoattail455]

Thanks a ton Davy! Bob came over today and helped me get some of the timing cover issues solved. I problem was the threads may have been just slightly different and that the bolts from TA were wrong. Wow talk about bad luck, almost everything I got from TA was to long. :error: Glad its fixed now and that I didn't have to remove the timing cover. Thanks again Bob, especially for putting up with the less than perfect conditions in my garage. I can see the finish line! :grin:

[R_DAVY]

No problem Rob thanks for the kind words. Now get your but in gear and get that boat on the road :spank:

[GoldBoattail455]

Got some time in today. After waking up at 11, (I planned to wake up earlier :grin: ) I walked over to NAPA and got some hi temp black paint for all the black parts of the engine. I then got a few parts out of the pile and trunk that needed to be painted. Got the cam pulleys, big and small out and painted, finnally finished stripping all the old paint and oil off of the passenger side valve cover and painted that too. Dug up the coil from the pile of parts and after cleaning away TONS of oil, to my amazement its the original coil with 150K on it. Woohoo! :grin: Repainted that black and left the holder for it bare metal for now as it should be. Cleaned the fuel line and removed all the oil from it, then put the new fuel pump and original line on. Painted a few small parts on the intake for the carb. Not going to rebuild the original carb yet, going to take the rebuilt carb off the parts car and put that on. Still need to paint the crank pulley and knock a weight out of the harmonic balancer without damaging the new paint. Im thinking of clearcoating some parts, like my valve covers because they don't look as shiny as other ones of here? :Do No: Cleaned and organized the garage a bit, now I can find my tools. Also removed a few parts off the parts car for people. I felt like I made some progress today, and it looks like it in the garage for once. :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture129.jpg
Not quite done yet.
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture128.jpg

[Smartin]

The DH 1608 paint is not a real high gloss. I found that a clearcoat helped a lot on the valvecovers.

Looks good, Rob! Keep it rollin'!

[EEE]

How much slack was there in the old timing chain, in comparison to the new one? In that 73 Electra I found at the yard, it felt like there was a lot. Like it was almost hanging a bit at the bottom. you could move 2/3 of an inch side to side on the middle.

[GoldBoattail455]

The old was never bolted up when I got it so I never knew how good/bad it was. Although I have my theories that it was replaced very recently before it the bolts came loose and because it had just been replaced the owner ditched rather than fixing something twice. I never did check the new one for slack, I forgot. :Dou: But if I remember it was pretty tight. I just hope those bolts hold and everything goes right.

[GoldBoattail455]

Finally got a break in the weather and the high was 41*F. :bglasses: Nothing great but better than the past few weeks.

Installed the new ported vacuum switch, heater control valve, thermostat w/ gasket and housing, choke control and put on the rebuilt carb. Im very glad I took a second look at the carb on the parts car because it was in fact rebuilt. So I saved $299 today. :grin: I know its a good carb because I've driven the car it was on and it looks clean like Frank's (austingta) carb. I would have made more progress today like hooking up and routing all new hoses but didnt have a ride. I still need to hook up the throttle (but have to figure out how to remove it from the bracket first), paint all the brackets for the power steering and alternator, clean the heads some more, clean the wiring harness, and install a few more things. I test fitted the valve covers too just to see how nice the engine would look and it looked so sweet! I can't wait! :grin: No pics for you guys though. :moonu: :moonu:

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the new heater hoses, clamps and heater control valve assembled at work today, and finished up the paint on the valve covers. The high-temp clear coat is on the valve covers and it helps the shine tremendously! Its incredible how shiny they are now. Now for the rest of the engine parts. :bglasses:

[GoldBoattail455]

Alternator bracket upper and lower, power steering bracket, original coil, cam pulleys and crank pulley. :bglasses: :grin:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture141.jpg

[Smartin]

Nice!! It was bitter cold today....no real chance to work in the garage. What happened to our 50 degree days??

[GoldBoattail455]

Thanks! :) Yea, bitter cold is right, and its supposed to get worse. Not sure what happened to our 50-degree days but I know its 65 degrees at work and I painted and got paid doing it. :Brow:

[GoldBoattail455]

Hopefully this week or next week I will venture back into the engine bay. Im pulling the timing cover again to replace the new rope seal with a new neoprene seal, replace the pan gasket as it was misaligned when I first put it on so the bolts did not line up right and I didnt seal the main timing cover gasket that mates it with the block. Also I'll use a better thread sealer on the bolts that go into the heads. Im not mad about this at all, just preventing further headaches. I will also be dropping the pan to inspect the bottom end, get anything dirt that might have fallen down, and most of all the oil pickup tube. That will take some planning though. :bglasses: The only bad part is dropping $175 for the new full stainless brake lines, but I have to look at it as an investment in the future. :beer

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the cover back off yesterday, took about 20 minutes. Sent it to the local auto parts store and they managed to install the new neoprene seal easily. But I have one question, my harmonic blancer has small ridges in it that normally with a rope seal would not matter but now it with the neoprene seal those ridges will tear it up. My questions is if I need to get rid of those ridges in the harmonic balancer, is this what other people needed to do? :Do No: Thanks

[unclelar]

Rob,
you should be able to get a sleeve for the balancer.
they make them specifically for that reason.

[buick64203]

The sleeves for the balancer are more of a repair sleeve. Its meant to repair a balancer that has a groove cut in it from the seal. Usually on high mileage cars. Ive only had to use it once on a V-6 Regal.

The hatch marks on the balancer are not going to affect your neoprene seal at all. my engine has been together for 10 years and Ive never had any problems.

[buick64203]

As far as the timing cover gasket. Take some Permatex spray hi-tack and coat both sides of the gasket. If you want to get crazy, you can put a very very small bead around each water port on the block. But Ive always had success with just the hi-tack. Next time, if the oil pan gasket isnt ripped leave it alone. Just run a coating of black silicone on the old gasket and zip it up.

And dont forget the oil slinger!!!!

[GoldBoattail455]

Alright, I'll use the harmonic balancer with the neoprene seal. I hope your right. Adam gave me some permatex spray hi-tack so I'll use that on the new gasket, and maybe some rtv around the two big water ports. The oil pan gasket slipped down when I put the cover on so I made new holes in it just to get the bolts though. But it looks like it still would have sealed on all ends. Oil slinger is already on.

Im weary of the cam bolts, I put plenty of loctite on them and torqued them to 22ft lbs but the cam gear starts to move once I get to that torque level. Im also worried because Im using a pointer style torque wrench. I checked the slack in the chain and it didnt move much on the passenger side but the driver side moved about 1/4. :Do No:

Also, the guy who installed the neoprene seal for me, didnt have to machine anything or modify the cover in any way. He didnt crack it either.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the timing cover assembly back on. No problems. Used rtv on the cover, block, oil pan gasket and hi-tack on the timing cover gasket both sides. I think im covered. :laugh: Maybe overboard but would I really want to pull it all back apart. Also a little fyi, TA's timing cover bolt kit is crap. They give you some of the bolt, and only a few of them work. The oil pan bolts would require me to cut new threads in the cover not to mention using a wrench to get them in because of tight clearances to the centerlink. Off to the parts store! The last pic is a preview of what's to come. :Brow: :grin: :bglasses: :beer :TU: :3gears:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture146.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture148.jpg

[EEE]

Nice and shhhhhhhhhhhhhhiny. . :TU:

[Billy]

Got the timing cover assembly back on. No problems. Used rtv on the cover, block, oil pan gasket and hi-tack on the timing cover gasket both sides. I think im covered. :laugh: Maybe overboard but would I really want to pull it all back apart. Also a little fyi, TA's timing cover bolt kit is crap. They give you some of the bolt, and only a few of them work. The oil pan bolts would require me to cut new threads in the cover not to mention using a wrench to get them in because of tight clearances to the centerlink. Off to the parts store! The last pic is a preview of what's to come. :Brow: :grin: :bglasses: :beer :TU: :3gears:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture146.jpg
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b199/Electra455/Picture148.jpg


Hey rob, Take a hack saw and cut about two feet back from the rear bumper........ :laugh: :laugh:

You got too much over hang there...... Hell the rear tire in the picture is squatting hard from all that over hung weight...... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Billy.

[GoldBoattail455]

Called it in for the night. Working on her since 8am this morning. Im currently hung up on the distributor cap, the screws will not go down so I can lock the cap on the distributor. I got one of them to do it but the other won't. Yet if I remove the cap I can turn the screws and make them spring down. Also which plug wires go where and in what order in the distributor cap?

[Smartin]

The #1 post on the cap is the one at the passenger side of the points adjustment door. After that, follow the firing order clockwise around the distributor cap. The firing order is spelled out on top of the intake manifold. 18246573 maybe? I can't remember.

I'm trying to find a picture that will suit what I'm describing..

[buick64203]

1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 Most GM cars including Buick. I think the only one thats different is Cadillac

[Smartin]

Jeez :Dou: not even close on my guess...maybe I should memorize that number.

[GoldBoattail455]

Thanks for the Clarification Adam and Jason.

But back to the distributor cap, the one side won't go down. Any trick? I'm so close I can hear it! :laugh: I just need to sort the distributor out. Also, I have the engine at 4* before TDC according to the balancer. I should drop the distributor down with the rotor pointing the the number one plug wire? Number one cylinder is on driver's side? Does it matter if the pcv valve is hooked up to the carb or not? Thanks :TU:

[Smartin]

You want to line it up with the #1 post on the dist cap. Just line up the balancer at 0* and you can make corrections when you get the car running. It could throw your distributor off a tooth if you try to time it without getting it to 0 first.

Hook the pcv valve up before you run it.

[GoldBoattail455]

Ok.

But the pcv valve will not fit into the grommet, both are new. Which end of the pcv valve goes in the engine, the smaller side? :Do No:

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Rob check your pms .... :)

[Smartin]

The PCV valve is a tight fit in the intake grommet. Lube it up with a little motor oil and pop it in. I'm pretty sure the fat side goes into the intake.

[D BERRY]

Jeez :Dou: not even close on my guess...maybe I should memorize that number.


In the old days there used to be a burbon called 1843 which made the first four numbers easy to remember. All you needed to memorize then was sixty five, retirement age and 72 the year of my car. Associate man! :Brow: As for firing order I think the Fords are different but since they number the cylinders different its hard to tell.

Dave B

[buick64203]

Dont get me started on Fords...same engine three different firing orders! :Dou:

[GoldBoattail455]

I'm off to crank her over, crank over the wonderful 455! :grin: :3gears: :bglasses: :Brow: :TU:

[RATT7]

Great pictures, thanks for the tips. I have a feeling I will be doing the same on my 1970 Electra this June.

[GoldBoattail455]

She cranks over. Sounds like the engine is cranking too fast. Fixed two leaks, one at the thermostat and one at the fuel line where it meets the carb. It sounds like it's about to catch but only 1 cylinder might catch. I have no clue where to go from here. All I know is im tired of pushin that car in and out of the garage. Now I have to go to work.

[EEE]

Fuel, spark, timing? Spark plugs new/old? How's timing? With the vacumm advance closed: should be around 4 degrees. Check the voltage at the distributor, with the resitance wire on I guess it's around 9 volts? How are the points? If they look bad, file them a bit. Same with the contacts inside the distributor cap and rotor. I guess you have fuel since you saw it leaking there. Is the carb squirting when you pull on the throttle? Just stick your nose down it and take a look while you pull the linkage.

[GoldBoattail455]

Everything is new. I'm pretty sure its the points but have zero training in how to adjust them. Timing is at 0* to start off with but will be adjusted to 4* after its running. There is fuel squirting from the carb, but its not the best fuel....old. If it stays nice tomorrow I will have it towed to work so my boss and I can sort out and adjust everything in the engine. :)

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Rob , Those Chicagoland members may help ya ...... :Smarty: If I was close I'd be over lil buddie . :rant:

Someone close by stop over and help my friend will ya ..... :pp


Remember when you worked on your first car guys & gals ? :Do No:

Yep , it was a feeling that made you the Buick nut you are today huh ... :laugh:

Well , Rob if I can be of phone help you know the #'s bud .



Good Luck and :Smarty: ask questions !!!


:pp :TU:


















/

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

Almost there but ......... :Dou:


Come on Chicago gang . This 16 year old wants to get his Buick running .

Anyone out there give the little guy a hand ?

Thanx in advance ! :pp :TU: :3gears:

[GoldBoattail455]

Don't worry Bruce, she's comin' to work with me for the weekend. Im getting her towed there as we speak. A little work today and a 10 hour shift saturday should help. :TU:

[rex362]

Robby....whats your situation exactly...timing and points..??

I can come out buts its gonna have to be late night action..after 9pm..

let me know,maybe I can bring a few local goons with me .. :grin:

[jeff bullock]

Robby....whats your situation exactly...timing and points..??

I can come out buts its gonna have to be late night action..after 9pm..

let me know,maybe I can bring a few local goons with me .. :grin:Yeah but you can bring some food for the late night wrench fest Rexxy!!! :laugh:

[GoldBoattail455]

No need Rex, maybe another day soon. :) I got her to work this morning and got her running with a little help from my boss. She starts right up! I need a clip to hold the carb stat coil lever on the linkage. Hooked up the vacuum lines better but still need to plug that and hook up the pcv system better. For it having old gas, not sure how old it runs real smoooooooooooooth! :Brow: No weird noises, knocks, ticks etc. I need to tighten the valve cover gaskets as they leak a little bit, not sure why. I've already tightened them down a bit already. Went back and tightened all the clamps because the hoses expanded. I'll do an oil change to it tomorrow possibly. Flsuh the cooling system in a week or so.

My only problem is it won't go in gear. Its low on fluid, I put a quart in but its still low. I know its leaking slowly but not sure where I'll have to take a look. It goes in reverse but barely, very slow. I know I need a grommet on the shift linkage because the towing company that hauled it here from Philadelphia unhooked it because he had no keys yet. The linkage is hooked up but not tight. I hope I don't have to drop the trans. But I have a rebuilt one ready if need be. Any ideas? :Do No: Thanks :TU:

[R_DAVY]

Bruce I PM'd him my phone # all he has to do is call I am only about twenty minuts from his house. :Do No:

[GoldBoattail455]

Bob,
If you want you can help me tune the engine and carb. Its still at 0*, not 4*. Among other little things I need to do that I have no clue how to do. Im not sure when I'll be free though, im working this weekend. BTW, how do you get the briefcase open? :Do No: :laugh:

[rex362]

good thing ya got it going....

[Smartin]

That's great news, Rob! Sometimes if the transmission has leaked most of its fluid out, then it will take a little running time to get all the fluid back where it needs to be. You'll find yourself continually adding fluid, even when you think you've topped it off. 5 minutes later, you're adding another quart.

[kwanderi]

Ahh, the story ends, happily though just like it should.

Reason being, I'm thinking of the same project on my 455, so I've been following this thread like a senior citizen to a free buffet.

I'll be sure to save this one, good narrative, pictures, help from experts and all.

[68 LeSabre 4dr]

I just got in from work and the garage and went here FIRST ! :Smarty: Short & Sweet ....... Thanx Bob & everyone for helping my friend . It hurts me to be so far away ....

But that car will run .................... :rant: :Smarty: :3gears:

Call me Saturday lil buddie ! :laugh: :TU:

[MR.BUICK]

Hey Rob,

That's great to hear that you got 'er running! :Smarty: I have been following the thread to and have been waiting for this moment! :TU: Keep us updated on the progress! :bglasses:

Best Regards,

[D BERRY]

That's great news, Rob! Sometimes if the transmission has leaked most of its fluid out, then it will take a little running time to get all the fluid back where it needs to be. You'll find yourself continually adding fluid, even when you think you've topped it off. 5 minutes later, you're adding another quart.


Yeah but be sure you don't overfill it, just take your time. If you overfill it the trans fluid will get air in it and the trans will slip. You might want to put a conditioner in it with the trans fluid, KW TransX or I'm sure Seafoam makes a good conditioner, don't try and save money here because you'd save more not buying any at all. You certainly do seem to have lots of patience, considering how long this thread has been going. Hey Adam, isn't the swapmeet at Waterloo tomorrow?

Dave B

[Smartin]

I didn't even think about it, Dave. Work usually eats up most of my Saturday time in the spring though, so I don't pay much attention to the Spring Saturday events. Today is the big classic car auction in St. Charles, MO! There hasn't been an event like this in 20 years here.

[GoldBoattail455]

Got the Electra out today, turned out to be a nice day. Changed the oil and filter, it was pretty filthy already as expected. Tightened up more bolts, and clamps. Cleaned up the underside so I know if there are any new leaks and if so where they are coming from. Added 3 1/2 quarts of ATF to the transmission, works like a dream! Yeah baby! :TU: My car runs and drives and stops. Speaking of stops, Im going to pull all the wheels this week and inspect the brakes. At the least replace the brake fluid and one small line. :bglasses:

[Billy]

Good deal rob.

Now you can work out all the other bugs and be driving that beast down the road and test out those rear tires.... Good luck :3gears:



Billy.

[GoldBoattail455]

You know it. :Brow: :bglasses: :3gears:

[mail906]

Great work.

How about posting some photos of the final engine compartment after its now all together and running.

What you went through here is the first major project I did on my first car - a 1966 GTO.

I stumbled across this thread tonight and was captivated by it. It brought back great memories.

Kudos to all the members here for helping out. W.

[MartinNr5]

Great thread -- and great work on your engine Rob. :)

Keep it up and as mentioned before: pictures! :grin: