455 into 75-79 skylark

[buickjim]

has anyone here done this , good ,bad etc, heater -ac box clearance issues,,, headaches, advice ??

tell me your story !!!

thanks

Jim

[462CID]

If you take a '70-'76 455 and swap it into a '77-'79 Buick, there may be some legal headaches concerning emission controls, and proper year engines (need a newer engine than the car's model year, technically, in some places.) Around here, they wouldn't know even how to find your engine code #, probably wouldn't care, and the car's too old to need emissions testing by law anyway, but check your local laws. This summer, the inspector was actually looking at the "emissions" sticker under the hood of my '70. After walking onto the shop floor (they didn't like that much) and asking him what he thought he was doing, he said "checking your emissions"....then I informed him of state law and invited him to try and locate my engine code. Then I closed the hood and asked him to finish the inspection, please. This same guy had to be convinced that yes, my seatbelts are supposed to work that way, and no, shoulder belts were not required in a convertible back then.

I guess my point is, you'll eventually find some dolt who THINKS he knows old cars who will cause you an inspection headache, so be prepared.

[buickjim]

hey, thanks,
so far i'm lucky to live in a state that is not preoccupied with making misery of owners of old cars that are so few in number , as to be a non issue in the real big scheme of things.

that being said, if it comes to that issue with the car sometime in the future, it could live on the strip...but for now, i just want to build something that can run , have a big block sound, and excite the crowd once and a while :)

thanks
Jim

[buickdav]

Jim,

i met a guy in Texas through Phil G. on here, that has a lark' like your talking with a stg. 2 in it. as i recall he was dumping almost 400 hp of NOS to it and having an absolute blast eating the local chevy boys up with it. he flat out told me he WONT race without it !maybe Phil will see this and help some out with some more info......:Do No:

it can be done and has been. but thats all the info i have for , sorry..............


later..............................

[buickjim]

that is exactly what i had in mind... :) :)

and those new 'pop can heads' are sure what we'll convince ourselves we ''need'' :)

but hey, its more fun than golf, isn't it ?

Jim

[blueskylark350]

hi every one i have an amazingly rock solid 78 skylark for sale v6 auto 2 door trunk car if any one is intereste email me at sherman1977@aol.com i am asking $200 for it



thanks
justin

[blueskylark350]

oh ya im also the owner of a 77 skylark that has a 350 its currently in hibernation due to winter but it will see road time again with only 77k original miles

[TXGS]

Hey dave, saw your post. the car is a 77 skylark. The engine is a stage 2 462 and sprays in the area of 225hp NOS. The engine is tight in the engine compartment. With stage two headers the upper control arm and foward bold had to be notched. The stearing shaft going to the gear box also was notched due to the stage two headers. A standard 455 with headers will fit with minimal modifications. The modifications I have spoke about only exsist on the Stage 2 application. So Last but not Least The 455 will fit in a 77 skylark.

Good luck!

[my-78]

Phil

What did you use for motor mounts? do you have any pics?

Thanks
Paul

[TXGS]

This Vehicle happens to be my friends. The motor mounts should be standard GS big block mounts. then you will also need the frame pads sold either by TA or Poston. I will see if I can get a pic of the car and motor installed. Dave if your on here give me a call when you get a chance. I have PM'ed you my number.

[buickdav]

Boy i was off on the NOS "hit",

anyways, just for that i will come over (like we planned) and we will take a look at the car a little closer. Phil i will catch you on later tonight or i will give you a ring.

Everyone else : is there anything in particular that you would like me to look at as far as the swap goes ? be more than happy to help you out if i can with the info. and to be honest, this is to be a NOS info gathering trip for me,,,:Brow: . gotta stay informed,especially if we get a new block that will handle a good "hit". where is that bottle off the nova ????????? anyways.

I'll watch for special requests on info.


later.............................

[my-78]

I would like to know what exactly was used for motor and frame pads. what trans was used, and anything we should be aware of.

Bowtie Overdrives makes a trans mount for the 200/4r and the 700/r4 that fits the stock location

Thanks
Paul

[TXGS]

Paul the mounts are stock off the shelf napa motor mounts for a GS. The frame pads are from poston for a 455. He runs a 400 with a 4500 stall. Anymore questions? I can take pics for you on turkey day as we are going to meet up in the afternoon. Dave All I have to say to you my friend is we made an error on compression on my motor can you say 12.1 the heads are 58cc. talk to you all later.

[buickjim]

Phil,,
this information is great ! sure will make doing the motor swap easier for the first part anyway....the its all the other 'little stuff' like headers, steering box, etc, to finsih it up...

sure does help to belong to this board and have such experienced guys who are willing to help us newbies create our 'dream'.

Jim

[TXGS]

Jim, On the stage1 motor that was previously in this same car there were no clearence issues. But not sure of AC. I will take a pic of it so you can get an idea. The problem was with installation of the stage2 headers. So If you want to put a stock/stage1 you should have very minimal problems. Let me know if there is something spacific you want to know I will take a pic if I can get to it. and ask him about more detailed questions.

Dave the bottle is in the back staying nice a warm under it's little blankky

[buickjim]

Phil,

if its possible, I'd like to make the ac work, since this is not an all out racer, but more of the desire to have a cruiseer tha can roast some ricers and have comfort doing it . :).. the sort of sleeper look, you know - v6 emblems, etc....

do you know if the ta sp1 will need a cowl hood to clear ? guess the cowl hood would kill the v6 emblems, :)


maybe some used ported iron heads to get me by the short term until the desire and budget catch up... LOL

is your friend using a th 350, 400, 700r or what ??

any suggestions regarding tq, trans, gears, traction control would be welcome.... its always cheaper to copy the success of others and not duplicate the unsuccessful efforts and waste time and money.

I'm thinking 3.73's if i don't use a od 700r or 4l80. what do you or anyone else think ? 850 holley / demon ?

is the single plane intake the way to go, since the bufords have so much torque anyway ? and the x bodies are a little lighter to start with.

give me some opinions and options...
thanks

Jim

[my-78]

Thanks. Phil

This information should make things go a little easier. I plan to use stock manifolds, so clearence is not an issue. any photos would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Paul

[TXGS]

I am gonna have to take a look, but the SP1 will cause some mods to the hood.

The transmission is a turbo 400 with a 4500 stall. You probably don't need that much.:grin:

He runs a 342 or 323 can't remember. but he has higher gearing due to nitrous. I would say 342-373 gear set would nice for this application.

If your looking for hood clearence you might try a dual plane edelbrock to see if you can keep it under the hood.

As of right now he is running traction bars but was working toward a later bar setup.

Air conditioning might be a problem I will get a pic of the engine compartment. I am not sure if the car came originally with air or not so I will let you know for sure tommorrow or friday.

[buickjim]

Phil,
any pics and info would be really great..

maybe my desire for ac would be served by vintage air...they seem to do things without a huge air box in the motor area, and have some really nice clean installs for the 'rod' guys...
i'll have to check that out...sometime..

the only reason for the hood issue would be the sleeper look..ive mentioned before that i think Larry Hodge has a really cool looking 75 (?) buick skylark and if somebody didn't know how great that thing runs, well , lets just say they would be in for a big surprise.

sleeper looks is cool..and the looks on the faces when they lose is priceless !!


thanks
Jim

[TXGS]

Jim,

I spoke with my buddy here and he said it will be a tight fit for AC. He also state that the break booster is kinda close also. As for droping in a stage 1. no problems he said you could even mount the block and have enough room to slide the headers in and bolt them right on. He said you might be able to get the SP1 under the hood but it would be a trial fit and would defenetly need a drop base aircleaner. He said for you application you might lean toward the dual plan just for clearence. I will post a few pics tommorrow. His car was an original V6 car also.

Later!

[buickjim]

thanks for the help :)

I think this project will be easier since we guys have gotten some advice from the 'pioneers ' on this swap...

still looking forward to some pics tho...

another thread made the 2004r sound like the trans to have...cake and eat it too, so to speak...

thanks

Jim

[cacmanjr]

Great Info, Guys. I am planning this swap for my 76. Question about the Poston frame pads....what year are they for..........64-67 or 68-72? Also, if the brake booster is that close to the tall valve covers, how do you go about converting to manual brakes? Is the rear suspension with just traction bars adequate? I'm considering CalTracs or the new Competition Engineering Slide-A-Link bars as a ladder bar set up looks too expensive right now. The new aluminum stage 1 heads ought to ease the problem of trying to install stage 2 headers!

You guys on this list give us all something to be thankful for!! Happy Thanksgiving to all!

[TXGS]

The frame pads are for the 70-72. The engine will fit but it sets very close to the brake booster. It will fuction ok when used. As for the manual brakes. I guess it would be just getting the correct master cylinder rod . The Traction bars are probably not adequate for the stage2 motor now in the car. Even when the car had the stage1+ motor in, traction was limited. But these were on an old set of ET streets. We were going to take it to the track to do some tuning on the suspension. To see how the car launched. We will be doing this soon but as of right now all I can say is It is trial and error. The Cal tracks bar will defenitly help but it is pretty much a race only piece from my understanding. If It is the same as the wolfcraft piece. Let me know what you would like to see I am going to take some photos of the car tommorrow. So I will Try and post them that evening

[buickjim]

Phil,
if you can get some pics, that would be really really great. for my education, pics of the left and right near the firewall, front engine to frame detail, header clearance, just anything you want to take pics of would be great..

thankfully,

Jim

[buickdav]

buickjim said:Phil,
just anything you want to take pics of would be great..

thankfully,

Jim


Jim,

you gotta be careful there man. I am not real sure we want Phil runnin around all "crazy" just poppin' off pictures,lol. anyways....

we'll get you some pix of the install and all that, no sweat. and i would think between all of us we "should" be able to decide where the "hard spots" are. we'll fix you up.

see you in a few Phil,,


later..................................

[TXGS]

some of you are looking at daves location and mine all i got to say is dave is a serious buick racer. Or he is at his outlaws in texas. and for that picture comment, I will see you shortly and we will get down to basics for you dave. give me a call when you leave. I need to call my buddy and let him know we are enroute.

later ya'll

[GSThunder]

Dave, you guys have got the wheels in my head turning if you know what i mean....:Brow:
I look forward to seeing pics.

[buickdav]

HOLY WOW what a car,,,,,,,,

we spent the better part of the afternoon(and part of the evening,are you in trouble Phil?) with Karry and all i can say is what a way to do T-giving. got a nice fill at lunch,(missed the nap though:ball: ), hung out for a few minutes then bailed into the car for a short drive to meet Phil before the adventure began. finally get to parking lot to meet up with Karry and up a rumblin' comes this "street car"(and i use that term as loosely as MG does in the description of his car). WOW !!!

on to the car as i know some of you are waiting for some answers.....so . first off STAGE 1 !!!!!! may i repeat STAGE 1. the car that Phil will post pix of is a Stg.2 car with the bigger headers 2 1/8" as i recall. anyways from what i was told, a-body street headers(like what we use on a stg 1) WORK in this with NO interference to the framework.to quote Karry,"put em' right in". ya know now that i think about it, i never asked which motor mount holes he was using,,,:mad: . anyways,,,, if you stg. 2 this car as per the example we looked at you do have some probs with the header on the left at both the upper a frame and the steering knuckle. "A" frame fixed with a Makita, steering fixed with a universal. if yall want i am sure that we can get you all the info you could possible need. anyways..... A/C ????? AIN'T NO WAY BOYS AND GIRLS !!! it aint happening. you think things are close in a regal ????? HA HA HA HA. and to the other side for some more "news"...... valve cover to booster clearence ????? about an 1/8". YUP THATS ALL !!! But,,,,solid motor mounts and thats fixed. other than the silly idea of gettin' the valve cover off for any reason, without removing the booster. and ,,,,as the hits just keep on a coming,,,,, the hood.... :error: ...Karry runs a adapter for the Dominator from a SP-1, and a plate for the "great blue equalizer". what this means is a 6" outlaw cowl induction hood scoop. NOT for looks but out of need !!!

so ,while its fresh in my mind yall, ask away. i have seen a VERY NICE example of this car done RIGHT(in my humble hick opinion). I am very impressed with the car and even more impressed with the owner, this being the second time i met him. I know Phil has a bunch of pix to post for yall so look for them soon(i think he said tommorrow). seems like alot more NOS powered Buicks are showing up out there. kinda makes a guy do a little thinking...:Smarty: ....it aint the 80's anymore,NOS is here to stay. we're just a block away from being able to spray one HARD.


later....................................

P.S. Al i will be in touch in a couple days,:TU:

[buickjim]

Dave,
from your report the sound of an awesome motored buick made the not haveing a nap after a big meal of turkey , an ok trade off <g>.

always a neat day to hear and see a fine crafted machine.

thanks to you and Phil on the update.

Jim

[cacmanjr]

DITTO Thanks a bunch guys. Can't wait for the pictures. Can't wait to start my own project. Hope to be up and running this spring. BTW Question 1. These guys must be using some serious traction control devices to harness that blue bottle. I've been told that the GSE cars are using CalTracs with basically stock suspensions. (Also my plan) What are they using?
Question 2. How do I change over to manual disk brakes to avoid the booster problem? Thanks again!

[blueskylark350]

on those power to manual brakes issues just remove the power master and all the lines an then just put the master cylender back on with new line less the power master i had a 77 skylark with manual brakes and the master cylender is the same os the power brakes other than the power master its all the same oh and in car craft there is a 78 olds omega with a olds 455 in it with no hood mods




justin
77 skylark 350

[blueskylark350]

i am also in search of a radiator support for one of these x-body skylarks i had a fenderbender with mine and thats the last part i need if anyone has oone i am willing to purchase it



thanks
justin
77 skylark 350

[cacmanjr]

Way to tease us Phil. That is a great looking car. That tall cowl induction scoop is a real blast. Looks like slapper bars for the rear?

Justin, thanks for the info. Does the master cylinder just bolt to the firewall in place of the booster? No mods to make it bolt up? Also does the push rod work? Do you have to move the push rod to a different hole on the pedal shaft like some others I have heard of? Shorten or lengthen it? Sorry for all the questions and good luck with finding a core support. I'll keep an eye out around here. Where are you located?

[blueskylark350]

as far as i know it takes the same 2 bolts ans the power master and im not sure of the pedal location everything looked the same but looks can be decieving i am located in s.e. mass near providence r.i.

[my-78]

Phil.

Thanks for the teasers, I love that color. that should hold us over for now. cant wait to see the motor.

blueskylark

any rad support from a 75-79 omega, phoenix, nova, or skylark will fit.

Paul

[buickdav]

MAN did those pix come out BAD !!!!!,

dont worry guys i am sure Phil can get some good ones taken of the engine soon. and really, those pix do the car NO justice.

i have been trying to remember info about the car for yall since i saw it. a few more things........the rear. 81 camaro 8.5" bolt in swap. yea those are slapper bars down there.

one of the things that impressed me about the whole deal. this car is run with a 230 h.p. hit of NOS right from the jump. meaning the gas pedal and the button are pushed at the same time. rear is a 3.31 (as i recall) and the motor never goes beyond 57/5800 rpm's. all this on street tires and through the 3" exhaust(getting bigger soon) now , from what i was told, a set of slicks have been bought that will put the car in the 10.0's on the bottle.granted this is with a stg.2 but my thinking is.....with the low 3 series gear and the RRR's never getting really that close to 6000, thats pretty impressive.and your not beatin' on it to run good numbers. and even a stg.1 would get some good results and with just a little work. but i was warned,,,,do your homework on the NOS if your gonna use it!!! ain't no need to go spittin' Buick out on the roadways .

Phil,,,,,,,,get these guys some pix man !!!!!!! they NEED to see em'.


AND....................Karry................i know your lurkin'...........:Brow: .......thanks for making my T-giving that much better:TU: and thanks again for the short cut, i knew exactly where i was at the 2nd light,lol.

OH yea.............who cares about the nap Jim. we had a blast. stood around and lied to each other for awhile in the garage, watched a old nats video for awhile, back to the garage for some more lyin', and finally leave outa pure fear of the wifes.which reminds me Phil, mine called and asked if i was ever coming back :grin: , did Donna get on ya when you got home ????


later.....................................

[TXGS]

Hey dave, My wife looked a little mad, I left at 1:15 and got back at 8ish. But it was all made up yesterday when she got me back by waking me at 4 and said time to go shopping "day after turkey day sales" Shopping sucks!

As For the car, The motor mount holes were drilled for motor positioning. Guys you will have to mock it up. The gear set is a 342.

And last but not least, Those pictures are pretty bad, But as for the lying I was not involed it was all dave:laugh:

Dave have a safe drive back to kansas, Watch out for all the nuts

not that you maybe one:Comp:

[buickjim]

Phil and Dave,
all I can say is WOW, love the color, the car is just an awesome thing,,,,but like the other guys, I feel like whoever it was in a fairy tale - tiny tim ?- that wanted ''just some more please'' :)

Beasts that live on the street like that fine example are so righteous....if not for the hood, wow , the ultimate sleeper...

can't wait for more...thanks for the extra work and effort on getting us the 'tease' , and hope you aren't in the ''dog'' house because of it...i tell mine she won't miss me if i'm home, so she shouldn't miss me if i'm gone ( just kidding honey ), but you guys know what i mean...

I would think the high rear end gears would help kill off some of the excess torque producing tire spin, right ?

justin, what issue of car craft ?

anyone who saw hotrod tv this week....great fun seeing that bad black gs kill off the other cars in the stock apprearing class..fun fun fun

Jim

[my-78]

Dave

My understanding on the camaro rearend, is that it is 1-2 inches wider than the skylarks. the mounting pads would have to be relocated for it to be a bolt in swap. the V6 cars had 7.5 rears, while the V8 cars recieved the 8.5 rears

I've talked to a fellow that has a stage 2 in his car. he said he was able to use two of the frame pad bolts :Do No: maybe with a mixmatch of mounts and pads it might work?

Paul

[TXGS]

I spoke with kerry and we are going to take some better pics of the car on sunday!

[GSThunder]

Are you saying all Apollo V-8 cars had 8.5" rears? That sure would simplify things, just have to swap in a posi carrier with some mid three gears.
Gotta be cheaper than trying to locate a 12-bolt,or a camaro rear.:TU:

[my-78]

Hi Al

The Apollo should have the 8.5 rear, thats not to say the odd 7.5 made its way into some V8 cars. a 12 bolt from a 67-69 camaro would also fit.

When I first bought my car, I was talking to a fellow who had put a 12 bolt from a chevelle in his skylark.

Paul

[TXGS]

the diff from the camaro had no modifications it is a direct bolt in.

[blueskylark350]

i am unsure of what issue car craft it is but i will find so i will keep you guys posted and i have a nova 10 bolt posi in mine




justin
77 skylark 350

[blueskylark350]

all the local yards that have these cars still are either rotted or bent worse than mine ans as for the pics i like everything but the scoop im not a big fan of them i think putting 2 gsx hood scoops in the stock hood would make it look meanbut thats only my opinion and im glad to see im not the only person interested in this style car



justin
77 skylark 350

[TXGS]

correction on the diff, The pirches will need to be relocated in toward the the carrier. so you will need to cut them and relocate them:Dou:

[TXGS]

ok enough of the teases they have been deleted and now on with the show! This ones for you kerry!

[TXGS]

another you say! This is the setup of the rear sump setup! I like this setup!:TU:

[TXGS]

ok another, This is the clearence between the booster and valve cover. pretty tight huh!

[TXGS]

and last but not least Miss stage2 herself!

[cacmanjr]

And what a show!! Thanks for all your work to get us neophytes pictures. Hope to have my stage 1 done by spring, and you guys have helped take much of the worry out of it. Here's to Going Fast With Class!

[buickjim]

second my appreciation for the pictures..your extra efforts are really appreciated...that's one awesome buick !

Jim

[TXGS]

you should here him get on it. If you guys have any questions feel free I will see what i can do to answer them. keep us updated on your projects.

[my-78]

Thanks Phil

That is one wicked lark. thanks for the great effort, in getting us some great shots.

Now for the pita question. do you think at a later date, you could snap off a pic of the motor mounts, and bottom pulley. for a clearence reference?

Thanks
Paul

[blueskylark350]

onother nise added touch for the 75-79 skylarks is a blacked out grille it gives it a better meaner look




justin
77 skylark 350

[my-78]

Works for me, but you should do the headlight trim ring also.

Paul

[blueskylark350]

i like it all chrome except the grille that should be flat black and the 5 mph bumper fillers should be body color pre 1977





justin
77 skylark 350

[my-78]

Forgot the pic

Paul

[cacmanjr]

OK guys. I've ordered my frame connectors and am getting ready to order the 12 point cage kit and caltracs. What are the rest of you doing?:Brow:

[buickjim]

engines on the stand and finishing it up...then to move the body in the shop and start stripping the front end off...

the fun starts :)

Jim

[cacmanjr]

Good to hear, Jim. Gonna collect a few more parts then get mine to the chassis shop and get started. Let me know how it is going.

[buickjim]

Carl,
chassis shop ? what are you having done ?
I'm thinking about doing the 8 pt cage from s and w and tying the subs together as my start.

after seeing how much torque one of jw's stage 1 motors put out, it would be a real frame (no frame=body) twister. and I'd like my doors to close with out gaps. :)

and also seeing how most of the power happens under 6k rpm,,,,well, gee, that's a good thing for a street motor.

maybe i'll get my web site up before this all happens and can post my pics and progress there...

let us know how your doin' too...

Jim:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[cacmanjr]

Hi Jim. The chassis shop will be installing the 10 or 12 point cage (haven't really decided yet) and the frame connectors and rear end assembly. I have a moser 12 bolt that has to be converted to leaf springs to use under the 76. I'm looking to get the car as stiff as possible because that will add up to consistency. What are you planning for a traction device? I'm thinking CalTrac bars.
I will continue to post here as the work gets done!

[cacmanjr]

OK bought a 76 455 to put in the 66 today so I can swap the motor out of the 66 into the 76. Next purchases are roll cage and caltracs!

[buickjim]

NICE,
did you get the entire car ? I missed one 3 wks ago that woudl have been the whole thing...pretty cheap..so I should have jumped on it, but I was caught short after buying a bunch of parts already that week.

are you going to take this new motor apart first ?

Jim

[70 gsconvt]

Would you guys stop posting stuff on this thread!!!!! I keep getting an itch to build one of these and it's driving me crazy.

I used to have a 75 Olds Omega with a Buick 350 from the factory. Pretty much the same car. Car ran like a raped ape. I loved it.

[cacmanjr]

No Jim, I didn't get the whole car. Just the motor. The 76 motor is going into the 66 car. It will just be cleaned up and have a new oil pump, timing chain and maybe bearings. The motor in the 66 is an AMP built street motor. That will be going into the 76 car. Frame connectors and drive shaft safety loop came today. Saving for the caltracs and roll cage. Anybody want to buy an olds 455??????
Phillip, gonna keep on posting til you get bitten by the bug!!

[70 gsconvt]

Thanks, my wife will be thrilled!!!!!

[buickjim]

Carl,
thats going to be a nice stiff ride when you get done...

with all my ongoing projects, i don't expect my lark to get on the strip this year...but i do hope to have the drive train and cage back together enough to at least test it out my late summer...

wow, all the stuff ive started =not good...need to finish some projects,

cal tracs are highly reguarded as quite the way to go.

[cacmanjr]

Hopefully it will be stiff enough to have repeatability. Seems to be the key to bracket racing. Good luck on getting your projects finished. I have my share of left overs to finish also, but making the race car is what allows the other car to become the "cruiser".
EVERYBODY says that Caltracs are the thing for a leaf spring car. There are a couple of Appolos out there running 10's on 10 inch tires with stock rear suspension and Caltracs.

Phillip. This is the secret..............Buy the parts and hide them in the house. Then when she catches you pulling them out, swear that you showed them to her months ago when you got them. Works every time. You should see all the stuff under the futon in the den!!

[70 gsconvt]

My wife works for the Treasury Dept. and has a mind like a steel trap......one that I keep getting caught in. I don't think she'll fall for the old "No honey, I've that for years. You remember when we got married and I moved all this stuff from my parents...."

[buickjim]

Carl,
what sort of horse is pulling those apollo's into the 10's ? Ive heard some 'lark's will run 10's them with only the 350, and that gives me hope for my 73...but I really want the bbb fun for the 78..

I think the caltracs will be in my future plans too


hey Phillip, there's room for more 'crazies' in this area...join in...tell the wife its cheaper than a mid life crisis , he he... at least that one worked for me... :)

Jim

[TXGS]

Bunch of crazy people!

[cacmanjr]

"Well I could be down at the bar chasing women"

"Well go ahead If that is what you want to do"

Phillip, My mind is like a steel trap also............all bent and rusty!
You just gotta be more convincing about already having the parts!

Jim, I used to like smaller, higher reving motors but found out that there just ain't no substitute for cubic inches!

No idea what kind of HP pulls the Appolos into the 10s'. I have never seen a 350 (that I know of) run 10s'.

Caltracs are THE way to go.

[buickjim]

Carl,
just think of the fuel economy we'll be saving by not having to run those little high rpm blocks so fast ( ha ha)....no substitute for torque to get things moving , eh ?

cars, more fun than a mid life crisis... :)

[70 gsconvt]

I ran one of these cars through my Desktop Dyno 2000. A 3400 lb. car, with a big block, th400 tranny with a 3500 stall converter, a 3.73 rear and 28 tall, 10 wide slicks.

This combo netted a 10.66 et at about 120 mph.

Horsepower comes out to around 600 needed to make it work. Not to hard with a 462 with 12 to 1 compression, an SP1 and 1000 thermoquad, headers, and some new stage 1 aluminum heads. Just get one of JW's $11,000 engines.

OK, who's gonna step up to the plate first??

[cacmanjr]

I couldn't agree more. Nothing beats a lot of torque but a lot more torque.

I think my cars are my mid life crisis. Just ask my wife......she knows everything anyway!!


Well Phil, my big block is 470 cubic inches with 9.6:1 compression with a b4b and an Edelbrock 850 qjet. 446 horsepower according to AMPs' dyno. I'm planning on 3.73s', 3500 stall and 26 inch slicks. I'm also hoping to get the race weight down to about 3500(with me in the car). High 11s' this season? I ran 12.77 last season at 4012 race weight with 2600 stall and 3.42s'.

2004 season......Aluminum heads, more cam, SP1 and 950 Holley or Demon.

I may not be first but I do have a plan.:bglasses:

[TXGS]

Guys I don't think you will be able to get a 28" tall tire in that wheel well. I will post the size that my friend runs.

[70 gsconvt]

OK, going from a 28" to a 26" slick will get you another .1 quicker.

[TXGS]

I wanna say he is running a 26.5' tall tire but can't remmember the width.

[TXGS]

here is the wheel well stuffed

[cacmanjr]

That is most assuredly a "stuffed" wheel well. How about tire size and rim dimensions? TIA

[buickdav]

"here i come to save the day...................................." (any of you other old timers remember the little guy that said that ?).


anyways..............as far as the tires go on this car, i cant tell you the street tire size but Kerry has a pair of brand spankin' new 28 x 9 M/T's sitting in his garage for this car. from the "looks" of the bulge of the tires on the rim i am guessin 8" rim max. and remember that the 28 x 9's only measure 27"s tall. thus giving the "fit" needed. i know that Kerry has waited for awhile to give slicks a shot and i can't imagine in any way he's just gonna go off and buy a set and not have them fit. who would ???? PAGING PHIL GREEN................. street tire size needed stat............

just to mix things up a bit....................does anyone know if fiberglass nova fenders, doors, and decklid would fit over to a lark' like this ???? go fast = go light , right ? a few glass pieces and maybe some lexan and i can't imagine being much over 3000. ooops then i gotta but my "well fed" carcass in the thing. right back to 3250...:af: .... man i need to go on a diet before this spring..................


later........................................

[TXGS]

Come to think about it I now remember that discussion on the 28X9 Slick and how the measure 27"tall. I will see what he runs for a street tire.

[70 gsconvt]

Don't forget, for every 100 pounds you shave off the car, you should go .1 quicker too. My guesses was with 3400 pounds.

[cacmanjr]

Looks like my 26 X 8.5 ET Drags might work if I can get them to hook.

I've been wondering the same thing about the fiberglass parts. I have been told that the fenders will work but you have to cut in the venti-ports if you want to keep them. No idea about the hood, doors and deck lid and lets add bumpers to the mix just for good measure.

If I can get to 3400 race weight (with my ah-hem slightly portly frame) I'll be very happy!

Good luck guys and lets keep this interest up.

Just about have the roll cage and Caltrac Bar money saved up.
Santa was good this year :grin:

[TXGS]

Ok here is some more info.

Street Tire Size 275-60-15

The Rearend in this car was out of a 78 Z28 Camaro. The rearend is wider than a 78 skylark or nova rear end. Using the original rearend (if 8.5) from the skylark or an application of the 8.5 type that is the same width will allow you a little more tire width under the car.

No fiberglass info to share.

[cacmanjr]

Phil, thanks for the information. I thought those rear meats looked awfully large. Any info on wheel width or offset?

[70 gsconvt]

Those 275/60R15 are 28" tall, tread is 8.8". Got those on my car with almost 1-1/2" to spare on each side.

[TXGS]

I will not be able to give you a good offset due to the fact that the rear is out of A Z28 and is wider than the stock differential.
The rear had it's mounting pirches moved for use with the skylark.
With the stock rear you will have more clearence because the axel is shorter. The owner has stated to me that he saw other similar bodied cars (IE. Nova's) Using 10" wide tires. I beleve if you spent the time and got the offset or backspacing you could make it work.

[cacmanjr]

Thanks Phil. My ET Drags are on 15 x 8's with 4.5 inch backspacing. I'm sure that they will work. Once I get it all put together, I will investigate going wider.

[cacmanjr]

Ok Guys. Ordered shifter, motor mounts and frame pads and cheap gauges. Converter, Caltracs, and Roll Cage left to go!:laugh:

[cacmanjr]

Shifter and Gauges arrived today. Ordered ring and pinion and rebuild kit for the stock 12 bolt yesterday. Coming along!:TU:

[blueskylark350]

hi guys

i had a 275/70r15 dunlop tire on the back that was mounted on a 84 iroc camaro rim on my 78 winter beater and that wasnt stuffed but it took up alot of room in the wheel well but it still had room b/c it had higher tension springs and shocks in it



justin
77 skylark 350
95 s-10 vortec

[TXGS]

the 275-60-15 on the car in the picture before fills the wheel wheels. the reason for this is the lenght of the rear end which is longer than a stock skylark rear end. this would cause the wheel to push further out of the wheel wheel. as stated before the car in the before mentioned pics uses a z28 rear end and the pirches were rewelded to make it fit.

[cacmanjr]

Got with a chassis shop today for installation of 12 point cage, caltracs and 12 bolt moser rearend. Should begin work in about 3 weeks. Hopefully ready for spring shake down runs!:beer

[70 gsconvt]

What does that cost to have a cage put in a car?

[cacmanjr]

I am having a 12 point installed. Cost is 1200 plus about 300 for swing out door bars. That is custom bent out of mild steel. Chrome moly is lighter but about 2 or 3 times the cost of mild steel.

[cacmanjr]

Ring and Pinion arrived today. Dropped off factory 12 bolt for install. UPS says that TA package will be delivered tomorrow. Oil pump, water pump, seals, gaskets, motor mounts, frame pads, and SP1. All (except SP1) for 76 455 going into Taboo.
Ordered Converter and Caltracs for Miniskirt. 12 point cage to be custom built around end of January. Still moving forward!:laugh:

[wormwood]

Hey guys just saw this thread. I put a 455 into a 75 skylark. If i can be any help feel free to ask. It's a prety easy swap. (hi Paul how's your 78 coming along?)

[cacmanjr]

Hey Dan. How goes it? I was looking at the crossmember in my 76 and is has many holes for mounts. Which holes did you use for your mounts?

[wormwood]

I assume you are talking about using a TH400 tranny. On mine i am using the last 2 holes on each side. and i THINK i am using the stoch x-member, although i cant really remember.

[cacmanjr]

Hi Dan. I was talking about the frame pads for the motor. Mine has about 7 or 8 different holes per side. I will be using a well built TH350 in my car. TIA for any info you can pass along.

[wormwood]

Putting the frame pads in was by far the hardest thing to do. I believe i used the 2 highest holes that lined up with the mounts. what i did was drop the motor down and see where about it would work. for me it was the 2 highest ones. then i had to drill a hole for the bottom bolt, that one will not line up naturally.then i drilled a hole in the side of the frame so i could get a nut on the other end of the bolt (may be over kill). sounds like alot of work, but everything else will be cake after this.:TU:

[cacmanjr]

Dan the frame pads I bought from TA have threads in the holes for bolts from the bottom. Hope that they work!

[wormwood]

I think i didnt explain myself correctly, sorry. my pads have the holes on the bottom, but they didnt line up to any holes on the actual frame.that is why i needed to drill into the frame.:Dou:

[cacmanjr]

I think that I understand what you mean, Dan. I bought the pads for a regal from TA and the holes in the pads have threads in them for a bolt that comes up from underside of the frame. I'll bolt them onto the mounts and bolt the mounts to the engine and lower it all in together. That should help me figure out which holes to use. Thanks!

[wormwood]

Oh yeah. you just reminded me. i drilled the hole in the frame, then used a piece of threaded rod to screw through the top of the mount then sliped a nut through a hole i drilled into the frame. Wallah. i wouldent trust just drilling a hole in the frame and using a bolt to thread the hole. with all that touque it will probably rip out sooner or later.:Smarty:

[cacmanjr]

Thanks, Dan. I have all the parts. Hope to be up and running and have test and tune done before the Norwalk event. We'll see!

[cacmanjr]

Update on my 76 project. Frame connectors are in. Rear suspension with Cal-Tracs is in. Moser 12 bolt is in. Fuel cell is in. Battery is relocated to trunk. Brakes are converted from power to manual. 12 point cage is going in as this is written. How are the rest of you guys coming on your projects?

[wormwood]

not as good as you, goodness sakes, someone has been a busy little bee this winter. Got any pictures??

[cacmanjr]

Sorry, Dan. The car is about 100 miles from here and I have forgotten to take the camera with me every time I go to visit it(read take more money). The chassis shop is moving right along with it. If the money doesn't run out I hope to have it up and running by the end of April.

[cacmanjr]

OK, this topic kind of died a while ago. Now my car is almost ready. Picked up the 470 from AM&P this week. 592 horsepower at 6000 rpms on 92 octane pump gas. I hope the have the car up and running within the next week! Anybody else working on their X bodies?

[buickjim]

cacman,
you have really 'turned 'em over' on getting your project this far along...wish i could say the same..some other demands on time and funding have put my skylark project onto next years agenda...looking forward to some camera features from you relating to the details..

keep it up !!!

Jim

[wormwood]

UGH, im never done working on my "X". right now im trying to get mine to stop almost as good as it accelerates!

[cacmanjr]

Hi, Dan. What mods are you making to the braking system to get it to stop better?

[wormwood]

Well, not any "mods" as such, just going with carbon metallic front pads, and replacing the rear drums, also installed a line-lock so im not heating up the rear brakes when doing a burn-out. im gonna go with braided lines and x-drilled roters, but dont have the funds yet.

[cacmanjr]

Sounds like a great plan, Dan. I went to a non power set up but kept the stock pieces so far. Upgrades are in the future.

[cacmanjr]

finally remembered to take the camera!

[cacmanjr]

another

[cacmanjr]

boy have I got a clean up job to do!

[wormwood]

looking good!! looks like this is gonna be one mean X body!

[buickjim]

very VERY nice there, carl
that baby is nestled in between those fenders like it 'belongs' there. heh heh....

have you 'lit it up ' yet ? I'll bet it will sound great...and move even better...

great pics, thanks...

Jim

[cacmanjr]

Jim. So far it's only been run on the dyno. I'm planning to fire it in the car around Friday and do shake down runs on Sunday. :grin:

[TXGS]

well I guess I am in the club just need to get a strong motor. I bought my 78 skylark for $150 still got the V6 but cruise it everywhere. What size wheels are you able to get under these cars.

[cacmanjr]

Well Phil, the X-bodies don't have the greatest wheel and tire clearances. I'm shooting for a 28 X 10 X 15 slick on a 8 inch Weld Draglite with 4.5 inch backspace. There are other discussions about tire sizes earlier in this thread. Hope this helps. Good luck with your 78!

[cacmanjr]

Fired that puppy this week end! Houston we have a race car now! Wouldn't ya know. Trans leak between the UltraBell and the trans case. Fixed that then temp gauge went out.....burned up because we forgot to put a ground strap on the engine and it used the gauge for the ground. This is hotrodding.:grin:

[TXGS]

sounds good carl:beer

[buickjim]

Carl,
must be the process of 'elimination' to go fast , eh ?
man, its always the little stuff to slow a guy down...

glad you are on the fast trak again...
Jim

[cacmanjr]

Yep............Next we get to go find all the week spots!!:grin:

[buickjim]

Carl,
I'm looking forward to the stories of the first 'full on' pass. :)

but , I'm also glad you do such a good job getting things tied down and doing all the details...I was noticeing your battery in the trunk pic...

unlike the young man across the street from a friend of mine...who didn't tie the battery down,,,and worse, its in the trunk next to the fuel cell...this last weekend he got the nova running and went to a long cruise...on the way home the engine seems to run badly, lights are flackey, etc.

opens trunk WHEN HE GETS HOME and finds the battery tipped against the fender and HOLES from where the bolts arced against the body...he's so VERY lucky it didn't ignite some fumes from fuel cell,,,( and glad he vented it with a tube out side the trunk, now we know why nhra mandates such things)...guess he got in a hurry and didn't finish the details when he got the new motor dropped in ...some details were lacking in that area too, it now seems...low oil pressure is causing him to pull the motor out again and do another tear down...

some opinions that he reused the old oil pump , after a major engine dropped valve incident, was not a wise thing to do...

ah, life's lessons about the hurridier I go, the behinder I get.

tc
Jim

[cacmanjr]

What a horror story. He was really lucky. The shop that built my car has paid great attention to detail and I am glad for it. Any one around South Haven Michigan that need a chassis/fab shop, let me know. These guys are some of the best and less expensive than most.

[cacmanjr]

11.31 at 115 mph with the carb not opening all the way. Ran straight and true and lifted the left front skinny about 4 inches on every pass!:TU:

[buickjim]

Carl,
pretty good time for the first pass and geting things sorted out ...a big rear sway bar or something else and you'll have both those skinnies hangin' :)

what rpm did you go thru the traps at ??

Jim

[cacmanjr]

Jim, thanks for the compliment. I think adjustment to the caltrac bars will even things up some. Don't know what the finish line rpms were.............too scared to look!:shock:

[TXGS]

Carl what rear gears are you running. Sounds like a fun car. My buddy here put down a 10.51 at 121mph (yup the numbers don't match) he got out of the gas at the starting line, Got back in it on the top end he let off do to an oil pan leak onto the headers about 15 ft out. There are a lot of potential in these cars and if set up right they will be big performers.

[wormwood]

congrats carl, nice to see the x's flying!!!

[cacmanjr]

Phil, running 3.42's with a 28 inch Mickey Thompson ET Drag. What is your buddys' combo?
Thanks, Dan been a long time coming,
I talked to my engine builder earlier today and he gave me some tips to get it into the 10's on pump gas!!:grin:

[TXGS]

If I remember correctly. it is a stage2 aluminum head, aluminum grp connecting rods about 13 to 1 compression, solid lifter cam can't remmember which one. 950 hp holley. 342 gear set.

[cacmanjr]

WOW must be at least 100 more hp than my stage 1!! Maybe when I grow up..............

[TXGS]

Carl, I post this info to let you all know that the car can be made to handle the task. Sounds like you have a nice enough vehicle expecially on pump gas. I plan to be there one of these days.

[cacmanjr]

'Preciate the post Phil. I'm sure the cars are up to the task. Mine came in at a little over 3400 pounds so I know it takes the horsepower to move them. I hope I can find some 'glass parts (hood and bumper) in the future. Good luck with your project and lemme know if I can offer up any info you may need.:Comp:

[cacmanjr]

MiniSkirt ran 11.16 at 119 mph this weekend. Closing in on the 10's on pump gas!

[TXGS]

race track pic. My buddy here put down a 10.51 at 121mph (yup the numbers don't match) he got out of the gas at the starting line, Got back in it on the top end he let off do to an oil pan leak onto the headers about 15 ft out. is now repaired and ready for a low 10sec run.

[cacmanjr]

Great burnout!! I ran 11.28, 11.15 and 11.17 before getting rained out last weekend.

[cacmanjr]

Got the carb to open all of the way this weekend.........11.08 at 120mph.........10's are getting closer!

[TXGS]

carl sounds good!

[cacmanjr]

11.143 @ 119+ was the best today in bad air at a different track. Took 3 jet changes to get there. BTW got to meet J. Weise, G Sweeny, Gary Paine and his son. All great BPG members.

[TXGS]

congrates carl!

[bigjon69420]

does anyone have any pic of the swap?? im planning on putting a 455 out of a 70 electra in my 77 omega. as far as the motor mounts i go the ones fron the electra. do i need to drill two new holes in engine cradel?? i have 800 total into this so far. i'm new to classic cars?? i'm on a tight budget-- anyone know where i can get cheap headers??? with the t400 tranny will i need to get a different driveshaft car has t350 in it now??
thanks in advance
jon

[bigjon69420]

any body know what i can hope my quater time will be with a stock 455 electra 455 in a omega with the t400 tranny??
jon

[TheSilverBuick]

does anyone have any pic of the swap?? im planning on putting a 455 out of a 70 electra in my 77 omega. as far as the motor mounts i go the ones fron the electra. do i need to drill two new holes in engine cradel?? i have 800 total into this so far. i'm new to classic cars?? i'm on a tight budget-- anyone know where i can get cheap headers??? with the t400 tranny will i need to get a different driveshaft car has t350 in it now??
thanks in advance
jon


This is an old thread, you should probably start your own. But here it goes for me:

The electra engine frame mounts might be too tall, I got a set for a '70 A-body, I had to oblong a hole or two, but all the holes were there.
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/23/l_cc822c2fbbb84777a1dd3adca9f65ff7.jpg

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/18/l_b12e5544d9d14e9a8aab9c600426ac6b.jpg

I used Cast Iron manifolds with no clearance issues and I now have T/A shorty headers on it with the only clearance issue being and had to tap a ~1/8th inch divot into the #7 header pipe because when the engine torqued up it'd touch the steering shaft joint. The divot is hardly visible, but it made a big difference. My car has the A/C box in place as well. All spark plugs are easier to get to than on the OE 231 v6.

Headers will almost never be cheap. I'm pretty sure you'll have to get the drive shaft made. The ends changed out at at minimum anyways going from a TH350 Yoke to a TH400 yoke. You may have to make or modify the transmission cross member, as a TH400 I don't believe ever came in an X-body. You may be able to find one from an f-body though.... I changed my trans to an aftermarket one, so I have no idea how close I am to the factory line up (though my Z-bar lines up pretty good with the stock frame bracket....).