Z-Bar Frame Bracket Question

[ts-gs]

I just purchased the bracket that bolts to the frame and supports the z-bar on its outside end. I got the bracket from Ground Up as I am in CT and could pick it up. It is the same part sold by OPGI and appears to be the same (from photo) sold by Year One. I am using Dave Kleiner's z-bar, etc.

When I put the bracket on the frame and line it up with the existing holes in the frame that are for the bracket, the flange for the z-bar stud is nowhere near being parallel to the end of the z-bar or the engine, for that matter. It's at an angle like it was bent wrong. Has anyone else experienced this? Is this bracket incorrect? I am doing a GS400.

[sparkplug]

Hello, is it maybe on backwards? Can you post a picture of what it looks like now? Did you ever remove the engine mounts? Randy

[ts-gs]

Thanks for the response. It is not on backwards. I can try to take a picture tomorrow, but I haven't tapped the mounting holes in the frame yet. I am just test fitting things looking for issues before I get too far down this road to turn around. I was concerned the header on that side might interfere with the z-bar so I am just testing how things fit. In order for the flange on the bracket to be parallel to the engine, I have to pivot the bracket on the upper hole in the frame until the inside edge of the bracket bisects the lower hole. Don't know if that makes sense, but I have to rotate it about 1/2". I am assuming the z-bar is to be approximately perpendicular to the centerline of the car and the bracket flange should then be perpendicular to the z-bar.

I did have the engine out over a year ago, but it went back in just as it came out. I'm sure that has nothing to do with this.

[sparkplug]

There is a Thread on here that one of the guys was doing a complete 4 speed change over on a 69 gs.. I will see if I can find it for you.. Randy.

[MPRY1]

When I did my conversion my Zbar was slightly off center to the frame mount as well. Maybe it's due to manufacturing tolerences? :Do No:

For what it's worth, I haven't had any problems with mine. :3gears:

[sparkplug]

The Forum is called operation 4 speed is underway.. He has some very good pictures in there maybe this will help.. Good Luck!!! Randy. I ttt the forum so it should be on the first or second page..

[ts-gs]

I have looked through Greg's posting and there are no pictures of this particular part of the job. If anyone has a picture of their bracket setup, I sure would appreciate seeing it. In the meantime, as I said, I will post a photo of mine tomorrow.

[ts-gs]

Ok, here are pictures of my problem. The first shows the bracket by itself. Notice the orientation relative to the inside edge of the frame which can be seen in the upper left. Seems to me the bent flange should be parallel or nearly so to this line.

The next two show how it relates to the z-bar. Again, nothing has been securely installed, just put in place to check fit at this point.

What do you think?

[sparkplug]

I think you are in the wrong holes aren't there holes in the side of the frame? Not on the outward side but on the inward side? And then turn it around.. I have only seen the ones on oldsmobiles and chevelles but they are all on the the inside of the frame.. Randy.

[ts-gs]

No, it is correct. Here is a picture from Greg's thread showing the exploded view. You will see the bracket mounted to the top side of the frame.

[sparkplug]

Yep your right!!! Sorry.. Haven't got into mine yet.. I think you may just need to put it in a vice and tweek it a bit... That's what I would do.. Randy..

[69gsconv4spd]

here is a shot of mine

[69gsconv4spd]

here is a shot of mine, perfect timing, I just removed the dust cover yesterday to get at the bolt.

[69gsconv4spd]

another, hope this helps

[ts-gs]

Thanks for the photos! By the way, from the small picture of the red body on the stand and the glimpse of the undercarriage, it looks like you're doing a nice job.

Are you using an aftermarket bracket or is yours original? The one I bought is glossy black. Yours doesn't appear to be that way. The pictures help, but I can't really see the angle of the bracket. If you look at the pictures I posted, it seems the bend on mine needs to be about another 30 degrees or so to be perpendicular to the z-bar. I'm at a loss as to what to do about it.

[69gsconv4spd]

Thanks fpr the compliment, I should really post some pictures. Someone might catch one of my mistakes and keep me from killing myself. My original bracket is probabnly where all the other stuff I misplaced is so I got the one you see from OPGI. For some reason it didn't make it to the powder coater so its the color it came with. Could the motor be off, maybe wrong holes in the mounts.

[ts-gs]

Pictures of your car would be great. Always nice to see what people are doing.

I don't see how the motor could be off. I did have it out, but put it back just as it came out. With the end of the z-bar located in the motor stud, it is pretty parallel to the firewall when it lines up with the notch in the bracket. It's just that the bracket is at such an angle to the bar, it can't be right. I'm really perplexed.

On another note, what kind of bolts hold that bracket in place? I figure them to be 5/16-? gauging from the size of the holes, but are they a standard bolt or are they supposed to be a self threading type? There doesn't appear to be much material there to run a tap through.

[69gsconv4spd]

OK heres the money shot

[ts-gs]

You're right. That about does it, huh. When I get home, I'll compare it to my bracket and see if I can see a difference. I really appreciate your time and effort you gave me on this. This bracket causes me concern because I hear so much on this forum (you included in your recent post) of problems with clutch linkage. Being the novice that I am, I need everything to be as correct as possible because I don't have the experience to easily figure out a solution if I have a problem.

[sparkplug]

Is it possible to put the motor mounts in backwards? In other wards putting the right on the left and the left on the right? I was just thinking that they might be offset.. I don't remember if this is possible..I know there is a couple different hole locations but I don't think they would have seperate ones for 4 speeds... That also wouldn't make any sence. Been a while but I'm pretty sure there on center..Randy.

[sparkplug]

Looks like to me the bracket on 69gs is different then yours.. I looks like yours is straighter.. I have one of these original ones.. I will find it and post in a minute.. Randy

[sparkplug]

Looks like to me the bracket on 69gs is different then yours.. I looks like yours is straighter.. I have one of these original ones.. I will find it and post in a minute.. Randy

It is definately your bracket as well as your holes!!! In the two holes it should be perpendicular to your motor..here is a picture of a buick bracket on an oldsmobile frame they are all the same... It lines up perfectly and is directly in line with the threaded hole in the block....it also has a slite bend down, right above the top hole.. Yours is definatly bent incorrectly..also your back hole is way off.. It looks like it was drilled wrong at the factory.. the bracket should follow the frame edge.. yours is off at atleast an inch.. Is there another hole by any chance??? Maybe the top one is the bottem?? Something is definately not correct.. I can give you exact dimentions on where your holes shold be if you need them...Randy :TU:

[ts-gs]

Randy- Thanks for those photos. The one from above is the most definitive yet. I need to get mine back out of the car and take a closer look at it and compare it to yours. I agree it isn't bent correctly. Yours starts the bend farther back, I think, which gives it a different angle when mounted. I'm not sure about the hole locations. I would think those to be correct, but I'll take a closer look at that also. If you could give me some sort of dimensions, that might help. In the meantime, dinner calls. I think we are finally getting to the bottom of this problem and I thank everyone who has responded. This site is the best!!

Tom

[sparkplug]

I put my bracket in line with yours and it seems your angle is at about 45 degrees when it should be at about 30 degrees.. I don't have a protractor here this is just a guess..I shur would like help if I had a problem.. Randy

[sparkplug]

here is a closer shot of the bracket.. line yours up with mine.. see what differences ther are.. you may be able to heat it up and bend it correctly.. or just get one from a different vender.. :TU:

[ts-gs]

Well, Randy, I think we found the problem. I put my bracket next to yours in your picture and look at the difference! I'd say that's my problem. Now I don't know what to do about the part. As near as I can tell, everyone sells the same part. Most places even use the same part number. I think they all get it from the same maker. I'm either going to have find an original or have one made, I guess. I can't believe this hasn't come up before. Thanks again for your help.

Tom

[sparkplug]

That's pretty Cool!!! I think you will find that everyone makes there own. It's a simple part to reproduce... Whom did you get the first one threw? Try opgi, year1 or the parts place? I would tell whomever you got it threw what your problem is and send them a picture.. You deserve and explanation and a refund..You can still take the piece you have, straighten it out and bend it correctly..I will look around in the books I have to get a correct one..ask gs conv. where he got his, he obviously got a good one.... I will keep an eye out for ya.. Randy

[ts-gs]

I got it from Ground Up. Although they use their own part number, on the package was the same part number OPGI uses which is from the vendor, I think. The one pictured on Year One looks to be the same although they use their own part number. I've seen it elsewhere with the same part number as OPGI. It seems there is just one supplier and everyone gets it from them.

I did email Ground Up with one of the earlier pictures I posted here and have heard nothing. Hope that is not indicative of their customer service.

Never mind. Just heard from Gound Up and they said I can return it.