Who has a 70 GS 455 4 speed car

[rjohns]

I just bought a 70 GS 455 4 speed car and was interested in comparing it's sloan docs to other 70 455 4 speed cars that are owned by others of this website
Anyone have a sloan documented or Wayne Roberts documented 70 GS 455 4 speed car?
Email me direct at rjohns@sprint.ca or post here.
Thanks Rich

[buickgsman]

I have sloan documentation for a 70 GS 455 4 speed car that I owned a few years back. It was the rustiest pile of Cr@p I've ever laid eyes on. The original owner told me it had something like 350K on it. I sold the car, but part of me wishes I still had it. What do you want to see?

Bob

[rjohns]

Thanks for responding Bob
What was the factory colour combo and options on that car?
Did it have a 3:42 open or Limited slip rear axle?
Let me know
Rich

[Kerry s.]

Hi Guys,

Rich....The convertible pictured in my avatar is a Sloan documented '70 GS455 4-speed convertible. What would you like to know? I have the paperwork Sloan (dated Aug 2001) sent me right here by the computer. Best $25.00 I had spent in a LONG time!:TU:

[SP4SPD]

Rich
I have Sloan documentation on my 70 GS455 4 speed car. I will try to find it and post it later.

[rjohns]

Kerry and Bob
My Buick Assembly Manual lists a 3:42 axle standard on all non stage 70-72 GS 455 3 and 4 speed cars and limited slip as optional or was it standard?
For the last 20 years, I always believed when one ordered a 70-72 GS 455 non stage car you automatically recieved a 3:42 posi rear axle.
Do your Sloan docs show G1 or G4 for Positive traction differential?
Also,I also always believed Buick only used close ratio M21 Muncie 4 speed trans but I am now feeling M20 wide ratio boxes were used on all 455 and stage 1 GS cars?
I am alo interested if your cars are plain bench seat or high option cars
thanks

[SP4SPD]

Rich
My car came with the (A3)M20 4 speed/3.42 open rear end OH code/(DC)AM radio and rear speaker/(C6)power steering/(U5)Instrument group/(OA)Door edge guards/ remote mirror/(V7) 14 in rally wheels/(L2)tinted windshield and (X2)Rallye steering wheel. Color was Desert gold/black vinyl top/(188) black bucket seat interior.
Hope that helps

[buick64203]

My 70 Stage 1 has a factory M-21. it also has "performance axle with positive traction" ie- 3.64 gears. Its a non A/C car. I believe anything over 3.42 got the close ratio trans

Be careful with the RPO codes. I think all 4 speeds even M21s carried the M20 RPO code. I questioned this when I obtained my reproduction window sticker from Mike Trom

[buick64203]

My 71 GS 455 came factory with a 3.08 posi

[704spd]

My 70 4 speed 455 is a notchback bench, 342, M20, A/C, PDisc, Manual Steering, 14" rallies. Burnished Saddle in/out with Dk. Brown vinyl top.

[rjohns]

Thanks evryone ,keep your Sloan detail coming.
So Non AC 70 GS stage 1 cars were the only cars factory equpped with M21 Close ratio trans?
All non stage 455 and AC stage 1 4 speed cars received M20 wide ratio Muncie?
This makes sense ,because in Pontiac GTO Land all GTO's and Firebirds ordered with standard 3:55 or Higher rear axle gears received M20 wide ratio muncies but if one order 3:90 or 4:33 gears Pontiac automatically gave you a M21 Close ratio muncie if you ordered a 4 speed.

[704spd]

Rich,

Sounds like a cool optioned 70. Was this car on ebay awhile back? I remember seeing a Silver/blue 70 and thinking how rare it must be.
The gear ratio was typically the driver, so unless a non-stage had an optional performance ratio gear, it would have been an M20.
Congrats and good luck with it. Post some pics when you get a chance.

Regards,

Eric

[70gsrick]

Mine was a 3 speed, standard black interior with Fire red exterior. 3.42 non posi no AC, no power brakes. It does have power steering. Documented by Sloan. :beer

[rjohns]

Eric
This car I just bought was sold new in Alburqueque New Mexico and was found in the Apache desert east of Phoenix Arizona.
Does your car have an open 3:42 axle?
Oddly my car does not have Rally suspension ( rear sway bar with boxed lower contol arms ) does anyone who have posted have H6 ( rally suspension)on their Sloan docs ?

[quickstage1]

My '70 GS 455 Convertible was documented by the Sloan Museum. It originally had a 3 speed manual, AM/FM, Rear Speaker, 8-Track, G78-14 Whitewalls and Chrome Wheels, G80 Posi, Softray Tinted Windshield, Notchback Bench Seat, Convenience Group, Instrument Group and Rim Blow Steering Wheel. Diplomat Blue with Pearl White interior and White Top. It had NO Power Steering or Brakes and NO a/c. Mine did not have the Rally Suspension either.

Ken

[704spd]

Rich,

Mine reflects as a posi 3:42.

Regards,

Eric

[buickgsman]

Hey Rich. My convertible was a Diplomat Blue, with a black bucket seat interior. Car was a 4 speed with consolette, power steering, sonomatic radio with rear speaker, positive traction differential(how it reads on the order sheet i have, does not give the axle ratio, but I think i remember counting it out to a 3:42), chrome plated wheels. Thats about it. Not too many options on the car. I wish I never sold it, but the car had a million miles on it and was actually bowed because the frame was so rotted. Ran great though!!!

It appears to have been manufactured 11-17-69. One thing that was weird that I do remember about the car was that the engine had been mis-stamped. It had the SR and then an F.. like the guy doing the stamping was cocked the night before and tried to stamp over the R, but all 3 letters were clear as day and in the same font, so I'm positive it was the original motor to the car. The Vin # was stamped in the block to confirm that. Pretty amazing the stuff you find when you look hard enough.

Bob

[rjohns]

I was reviewing an original 70 GSX sales brochure last night the one that incorrectly lists valve diameter for Stage 1 engine as the same diameter as non stage standard 455.
If you look at the description for the standard transmission for a 70 GSX it does not say M20 or M21 but does list gear ratio's for each gear and first gear is listed as 2:20 which is for a M21 close ratio muncie .
Therefore ,that means means even a non stage 4 speed GSX/GS with 3:42 standard gear recieved M21 close ratio trans? Maybe this is another typo goof by Buick Marketing!
I have not picked up my car yet to check but for those of you that have #'s matching Muncie's in your 4 speed GS cars please look on case to see stamps P0C19 A or B this decodes as P for Muncie,0 for 1970,C19 March 19 and finally A for wide ratio M20 or B for close ratio Muncie.This should be stamped on passenger side of main case vertically where tailstock housing attaches to main case.
Please check you 4 speed tran's to clarify which trans is correct?
thanks Rich

[tripleblackrag]

Rich, the 70 Buick Service manual shows the GS 455 with a close-ratio trans. Check out the triple black 4 speed car on ebay right now, what does that car remind you of??

[Marco]

I was reviewing an original 70 GSX sales brochure last night the one that incorrectly lists valve diameter for Stage 1 engine as the same diameter as non stage standard 455.
If you look at the description for the standard transmission for a 70 GSX it does not say M20 or M21 but does list gear ratio's for each gear and first gear is listed as 2:20 which is for a M21 close ratio muncie .
Therefore ,that means means even a non stage 4 speed GSX/GS with 3:42 standard gear recieved M21 close ratio trans? Maybe this is another typo goof by Buick Marketing!
I have not picked up my car yet to check but for those of you that have #'s matching Muncie's in your 4 speed GS cars please look on case to see stamps P0C19 A or B this decodes as P for Muncie,0 for 1970,C19 March 19 and finally A for wide ratio M20 or B for close ratio Muncie.This should be stamped on passenger side of main case vertically where tailstock housing attaches to main case.
Please check you 4 speed tran's to clarify which trans is correct?
thanks Rich

Hi Rich -

My understanding is that posi option was part of the GSX package, along with the stage1 package.

I also believe the GS455 4-speed non-stage1 cars came standard with a 3.42 open rear. All the Buick muncie 4-speeds I've decoded were M21s.

Just some things I've observed over the years :beer

Does this answer your question?

[Kerry s.]

Hi Guys,

Rich....My '70 GS455 convertible (4667) was a strangely (IMHO) optioned car. "J"-"J"-"5" (burnished saddle w/sandalwood top and "189" burnished saddle vinyl buckets. Back in 1989 I redid the entire car to be a triple-black car as when I bought it in 1988 it had a poor black paint-job with the original ripped sandalwood top spray-painted white and the original burnished saddle interior also spray-painted black ALL was rubbing off and looked terrible (but for $4000 I thought it was a good deal for me as I knew I would re-do it). It was poorly done! I liked the black though so I redid everything properly.

The options are:------------------------------------------UPC Code
B-3....4-speed Manual Floor Shift Transmission (M-21)......... M20
C-E....(C-1..Power Disk Brakes) and (C-6..Power Steering)... JL2 & N40
D-5....AM-FM Radio............................................. ......... U69
F-2....Oversize Whitewall Tires H78-14.............................. P30
G-4....Positive Traction Differential (mine is 3.42)................ G80
O-5....Remote Control outside Rear View Mirror................... D33
R-1....Power Windows........................................... ........ A31
U-5....Instrument Group (Tach and Gauges)....................... WB8
V-3....Wire Wheel Covers............................................ ... N95
X-2....Ralley Steering Wheel............................................ N31

Build Date was 11/25/1969

Zone/Dealer (12-252) was Giuffre Buick Inc., Springfield, IL (still there to this day!)

Invoice Amount was $3640.02

Hope this helps...:TU:

[70 gsconvt]

My car's a 4-speed. Oh wait, you probably mean manual trans. I got's me a 200-4R in mine. :laugh:

[rjohns]

Thanks Marco and Kerry
What is confusing is the Wholesale car order sheet list B3 as M20 under UPC code which would make one think M20 wide ratio trans.
I always thought Buick Big block cars received M21's but getting into this further has created confusion.
Thanks Marco, so you have decoded M21 4 speed trans's in regular GS 455 cars?

[Marco]

Thanks Marco and Kerry
What is confusing is the Wholesale car order sheet list B3 as M20 under UPC code which would make one think M20 wide ratio trans.
I always thought Buick Big block cars received M21's but getting into this further has created confusion.
Thanks Marco, so you have decoded M21 4 speed trans's in regular GS 455 cars?

Hi Rich -

I agree, it is a little confusing. The M20 does not represent a Muncie M20 transmission. M20 is Buick's UPC code for the 4-speed manual transmission, just as M38 is the UPC code for the turbo 350 and M40 is the UPC for the TH400 transmission.

Yes, I have seen Muncie 4-speeds in 'other than stage1 cars' decode to a M21 (last stamped character on the code is 'B'). Here (http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=74195) is a thread that has some members chiming in with their information.

I hope this clears things up a little for you :beer

[rjohns]

Marco
Do you or anyone else have the correct part #'s for GS BB 4 speed Hurst Shifter handle Bench seat and Console if different part #'s?
As well shifter body and linkage?
I went though 1970 Buick assembly manual last night and the diagram under 4 speed section does not show part #'s?
Please post info if you have it
thanks

[buick64203]

lever, transmission control-less knob 68-72 C.T. 4 speed #1385629
Shift unit, transmission control (complete) 70-72 #1234417

[flynbuick]

70 Assembly Manual 7-9.1 -- 4 speed assembly shifter = GM #1234417

70 Assembly Manual 7-8.1 -- 3 speed shifter assembly = GM # 1234416

[rjohns]

Thanks for posting Jason and Jim.
Jason is this the only part # for Hurst Shift handle?
Is it safe bet that the same handle was used for both Bench seat and Buckets /consolette cars?

[buick64203]

Yes, thats the number for just the chrome stick or in GM-ese "lever-less knob"
The number is for all 68-72 cars so I would assume its for all type seats as well. If it wasnt, Im sure there would be a separate number

[flynbuick]

I thiink since the parts books and the 70 assembly manual both agree that 3 and 4 speed levers are the same number that would end an issue in over 99.9% of the time. Since the books insofar as I see make no distinction between bucket and bench seat cars that would also be the end of this issue 99.9% of the time.


But until Wheelz' pics are investigated further and explained I would not close the book on this. We need the handle pulled from what we know is an original bench seat 68-72 car and the Hurst number read.

[flynbuick]

I thiink since the parts books and the 70 assembly manual both agree that 3 and 4 speed levers are the same number that would end an issue in over 99.9% of the time. Since the books insofar as I see make no distinction between bucket and bench seat cars that would also be the end of this issue 99.9% of the time.


But until Wheelz' pics are investigated further and explained I would not close the book on this. We need the handle pulled from what we know is an original bench seat 68-72 car and the Hurst number read.

[704spd]

Did Wheelz post the part numbers on the shifter assemblys he pictured? I didn't see it in the 3 speed thread. I'll have compare my two to see if they are different (bench car vs the X).

Tks,

Eric

[rjohns]

Wheelz mentioned that part #s were unreadable.
Jim I agree with your assessment.

[704spd]

Here are the part numbers off the two shifters I have-

1st shifter from my X- looks like the one Wheelz has labeled "Bench"
Front of shifter assy # 3138
Side of shifter assy facing away from trans, stamped vertically # 01002360

2nd shifter from my Bench seat 4spd 70 I have owned since 87- looks like the one in middle of Wheelz pic "slightly straighter"
Front of shifter assy# 3138
Side of shifter assy facing away from trans, stamped vertically # 1090241P

The handles are very similar. I would venture to say that once in the boot, especially in a console car, you would not notice that slight curve. I'll pull the handles this weekend to check what # is on the bottom.

Regards,

Eric

[buick64203]

Just to add something in the mix is the 73 handle that has a different number from the 68-72 style. Disregard the gaping holes in the floor.

http://members.aol.com/buick64203/73int2.jpg

[rjohns]

Thanks Eric
Looking forward to the #'s you find

[MikeM]

I thiink since the parts books and the 70 assembly manual both agree that 3 and 4 speed levers are the same number that would end an issue in over 99.9% of the time. Since the books insofar as I see make no distinction between bucket and bench seat cars that would also be the end of this issue 99.9% of the time.


But until Wheelz' pics are investigated further and explained I would not close the book on this. We need the handle pulled from what we know is an original bench seat 68-72 car and the Hurst number read.

Geez Jim I'm getting goose bumps. Maybe I can actually help with something. I've got one in the 68 bench seat GS and will be back in USA in late Feb. But if I have to "pull" it out that's a problem. You can't read the numbers without disassembly? My tool set is limited to flashlights and screwdrivers these days.

[71Stage1Conv4sp]

Jason,

Is that my Hurst "T" handle you have on that shifter. You know I only got my white ball knob back. :grin: :grin:

Len

[buick64203]

Ha! No, that T handle came off my 69 GS 400. The white ball is what was on the 71 when I bought it.

[71Stage1Conv4sp]

I used to keep both of them in the car. By the way, nice holes in the floor; looks all too familar. Glad that part is over. :beer

Len

[704spd]

Thanks to Jim for providing instruction on removing the handles from the assy. :TU:
Both handles are in fact numbered 5335 on the lower side of the butt. So I would say that although there is a slight variation in the shape of the handles, bench and bucket are in fact the same- At least on both of my 70's. Why the two slightly different shapes? Two different Hurst lines?