Knock/rattle at lowish rpm. 455 *teardown/rebuild pg5*

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by hunter7389, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I hope you are actually using a timing light to determine when the advance is all in. Just because the Crane instructions say two blue springs gets it all in by 3200 doesn't mean you don't have to check beyond that. The biggest mistake made is when one assumes the timing is all in, but there is more there. What distributor are you using? Part number?
     
  2. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    I am. and I have a timing tape on the balancer

    I just ran it up in the driveway:
    850 (idle): 10
    1000: 16
    1200: 18
    1400: 18
    1600: 20
    1800: 22
    2000: 22
    2200: 24
    2400: 26

    Its an oem distributor, 1112110, date code looks to be 1J27
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    That is a 1972 455 distributor. According to the specs, it should have no more than 14-18* maximum mechanical advance. If you are topping out at 2400 with 26*, that means there is 16* in the distributor.

    72IgnitionSpecs.jpg
     
  4. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    Good Info, thanks! I can try taking the initial down to 6* and see what that does, but I remember the idle not being as nice from when I initially set it up.
     
  5. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    What confuses me is that on the first post, you say the timing was 12/38 and 8/34. There is 16* in the distributor, not 26*. You are starting out at 10* initial in your post above, and ending up at 26* @ 2400 RPM. That means you are at 26* total. It shouldn't rattle at that timing.
     
  6. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    I had the vac advance disconnected on the latest #'s and test drives. It's a crane adjustable dialed back to about 8-10*. I just figured one less variable tracking down this noise.
     
  7. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Seeing as it is doing it without the vacuum advance canister connected, the problem is elsewhere. I find it strange that it rattles at 26* of timing. Is the engine running hot? You can try UR-5 plugs, they are cooler.
     
  8. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    Runs about 190-200 in stop and go around town, 180 thermostat. I could not find the UR5 in town (small town), but I could try the A.C. Delco equivalent
     
  9. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

  10. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    Set the initial way back to 4* btdc, to where the idle is rough. It's better, the rattle is a bit higher in the rpm and throttle range, and a bit quieter. Obviously not going to drive it around like this, but might be on the right path. I'll grab a set of those plugs. I greatly appreciate your time and help Larry!
     
  11. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    You're welcome. I'd try to get the temperature down to no more than 180* That will help as well. You can get the NGK plugs from www.rockauto.com. They are cheap.
     
  12. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    No change with the R43TS. I bought a 160* t-stat that I will try in the morning, on this trip though it was 170-180*f
     
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Very strange. I'm wondering if you are hearing something else. I mean, I know what detonation/ping sounds like, and I can recognize it immediately. It should not be pinging at 20* of timing, and the engine will be seriously down on power at full throttle.
     
  14. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    I have not been very agressive on the throttle for fear of hurting something. I know diagnosing via written words is near impossible, but it sounds like a can with rocks in it. At idle and quick revs in park it sounds great. I poked around with a long screwdriver as a stethoscope at idle, everything has a similar light sewing machine tick, aside from the alternator and bracket backing a lower grinding sound.

    My only other thing I can relate it to is a spun rod bearing on a 94 Trans Am, with the noise as you float or let off the gas, definitely not that noise on the buick.
     
  15. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    I think I'll disconnect the torque converter and give the flywheel another look. The bolts are snug, but maybe there is a crack under them. Running out of other ideas... All the engine and trans mounts are in good shape. Stock exhaust manifolds, no clearance issues
     
  16. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    Flywheel and TQ converter check out fine, and the harmonic balancer does as well. I fetched a borescope from work (A&P Helicopter mechanic) so I'll stick that in the cylinders and wherever else it fits and see what I see..
     
  17. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

  18. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    How good is the fuel in the tank?(sorry if this was discussed before, I didn't read the beginning of the thread)
     
  19. hunter7389

    hunter7389 Well-Known Member

    About 6 weeks, new tank with efi pump and lines, topped off today with 8 gallons of fresh chevron 93 octane and about 10oz of seafoam leftover from another project
     
  20. 8ad-f85

    8ad-f85 Well-Known Member

    Looking at the plugs and what they tell you would have more validity than suspecting the ignition system type.
    You might be able to see obvious signs of heat range issues as well as too much timing on the plug.
    A good read would be to search "4 seconds flat plug reading" (?) . Good pics too.

    I see now you have already addressed this but the plugs need to be visually inspected.

    Another issue with a recently rebuilt engine is that the valve seats might be ground with an interference angle leaving very little contact width, or inadequate contact making the face of the valve run hotter.
    I didn't catch it yet, but did the borescope show sharp edges in the combustion chamber?
    Both of these issues 'could' make it difficult to curve a distributor without det. problems.
    They could supercede a colder plug by being the initiation point of detonation.
    Loose flexplate or crank bolts would also cause some noise, but the plugs or scope should show up obvious det. signs.
     

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