Looking for suggestions and expert advice: Upgrading my 1970 455 engine to a modern 455 engine

Im actually at the age to have been around both and I gotta say I like efi better. Carb is fine for a show car or race car but I like something I can drive anywhere anytime. Thats not saying you cant a carb but weather changes elevation changes always seem to affect them more. So thats my main reason for liking efi. Im also always on the hunt for mpg and that seems to always improve with efi. I love taking a classic car and showing people that I can get as good of mpg make good power and drive it daily if I want. Just how I am.

 

I agree with you. The only car I own with a carb is my 70 GS.

All my daily drivers since 1986 are EFI. To be honest & fair, I have never had an EFI problem.
They are very reliable and like you said get good gas mileage,
BUY don't ask me to program one. Lol VET.

 

Thanks for the tip on Mr. Rob Ross.

When I was in the Navy Active Reserves, I worked at Annapolis repairing boats the cadets used to learn how to navigate for 3 years. It was fun. VET (Navy)

 

Roller cams are not cheap. They’re even hard to get easy $1600 for cam an roller lifters. I myself can’t justify that kind of money for a street motor, racing motor different story.

 

Wow, never priced one.
Agree, that is expensive.
Guess I'll scratch that off my Xmas list. VET

 

yeah i think if i spent that much if rather go with aluminum heads for not alot more.

 

That's a good point. I hear TA makes some very good Alum heads for Buicks. VET

 

There’s a long waiting line for TA se stage 1 heads. There’s no reason why you can’t make 450 hp with a good set of iron heads and a right hydraulic or solid lifter cam

 

Another good point you bring up. My iron heads have been Port Matched by Buick engine builder John Chamberlain.
You might have heard of him, he is on this forum and goes by Collector.
That said, my Buick does retain the stock iron intake that John port matched.
I've been thinking about going to the Edelbrock Performer Alum intake. It should give me around 5 more HP (not a big deal) but will save a lot of weight. I've already switched to an Aluminum Radiator, that's saving some weight off too.

At this stage Ian researching info as to how I cac reach the 450 HP level.
I don't remember if I told you the John C also bored the 455 to 462. It does have a nice Comp Cam hydraulic cam in it now.

It could be, i'am getting ahead of myself. My car has been in the shop for 2 years and supposed to be completed next week. With the detonation cleared up and high water temperature cured, and the addition of the MSD ignition system and new carb that's been turned, it just might be a good runner.
Two years ago, it was really hurting for power.
O' I forgot, previous owner installed a shift kit and it really works great between shifts.
I've never had one in any of my previous cars because I've always gone with 4-speeds.
This shift kit keeps the rpm's at shift points almost perfect, almost no drop in rpm's. Really is amazing for an automatic.

I'am still at the research gathering point.

I want to thank you for taking time to help me and give me advice. This is my first Buick muscle car. My former Chevys were much easier to figure how to make good HP, of course I don't have to worry much about CR because of the great leaded gas we had. Building unleaded cars is a lot more difficult. For one thing, i'am starting with an already mildly built 455. Unfortunately the previous owner installed some Kenne Belle high CR pistions somewhere 5 to 8 years ago, best we can guess. This is the cause of detonation issues plus he screwed up the points distributor. It's taking a long time to solve that major issue and $$$$.
Maybe this car will perform like I originally expected it too.
I'll see so very soon. Again, appreciate your help. VET

 

You’ve been without it 2 years, I’d enjoy the car, tearing it down for upgrades these days you may never get parts to assemble it again.

 

You and Brett have a good point. I never expected to have my Buick in the shop for 2 years.
This car was supposed to be a
Turn-Key driver. Take it home and enjoy it, well that didn't happen.
One thing after another needed repairing and replacement.

The more you guys give me advice, the more I really want to drive it and not screw around trying to get more HP out of it.
I guess I'll have to put off or just do without the power Adders.

I'll see how my mental state of mind goes.
I have to admit, I spent WAY more $$$$ I estimated.
Thank you gentlemen for the advise. I should know what ism going to do when Spring gets here. VET (Navy)

 

Don't take a running/driving car apart. I did almost 3 years ago and it took me 2 full years to get the machine work done so I could get the engine back together.

It started as a simple regasket but when we starting pulling things, it was going to need new front and rear seals. We pulled the engine and yanked the intake to find the cam and lifters shot so decided to have it freshened. Even with the crank checking out standard and the bores being standard, it took way too long to get the block decked, bores honed, cam bearings installed, freeze plugs, valve job and rod bolts installed. Balancing it only took 10 days.

 

I was thinking about that. As you have read, the previous did some power add-on's that caused several engine problems.
Like you, we didn't know until my mechanical found one part after another causing problems and required repairing and replacing. Like you, this added a lot of extra time I had not planned on and $$$ to.

The one major issue I did not want to do is remove the high compression pistons the previous owner had installed. That was going to be expensive. So, we did a compression check and found the results to be in excellent condition, that was a huge relief.
I then decided to do a leak-down test and that too came back with excellent results. This engine only has 3,600 miles since its last engine rebuild.

As you recommend, I should leave well enough alone. I'm sure as you have pointed out, if I go digging, I'll find something that I feel needs replacing, and engine work can be a time-consuming venture.

The one-time consuming issue I didn't count on. When I called to get my car into a Classic car shop, I had to wait in-line for 3 months just to
get in. A time delay like that never occurred to me.

Thank you for your advice, I will learn what others before me have learned the hard way. VET (Navy)

 

^^^^^This^^^^^
Upgrade your gears from the 2:93's and enjoy it.. The only issue is finding s 8.5 rear and seal up the 8.2 if its original.

Ask John to what exactly what parts are in this motor other than the oil mods and port matching.
You don't seem to know exactly what was done and how much compression ratio it has now?

 

When you get the car back, drive it, see if everything behaves as it should, if so, take it to the track, see how it runs, tweak it, tinker, try different adjustments, it may run better than you thought, or it may run as good as it can for where it’s at, point is, you might be satisfied

 

Mark, one of the good things about the Dakoda digital dash I bought is it has several performances features.

Performance Meters
·0- 60 MPH Timer
·1/4 mile time
·1/4 mile end speed (trap speed)
·High speed recall
·High RPM recall

Can't wait to tryout these features. Too bad it doesn't have 60-foot times, LOL. VET

 

Here's what I know about my Buick.
John rebuilt the 455 in 2012. He does a lot of engines so he can're remember every thing he did to mine. This is what he normally does.

(1) All cast iron parts, i.e., intake ( John did a port job).
(2) John took the heads and turned them into Stage 1 big value heads and installed the HD Value springs too.
(3) John installed a Comp cam, here are the specs
Comp Cam - specs in my 1970 Buick GS 455
Gross valve lift: Exh. Lift. .496”
Gross Valve lift: Int. Lift. .478”
Duration @ .050: Exh. Duration .231
Duration @ .050: Int. Duration .218
Lobe separation: 112 degrees
(4) The previous owner installed Kenne Belle high compression pistons that caused detonation issues. The shop was able to solve this issue with a lot of new ignition mods (MSD ignition, adjustable vacuum canister and engine timing). I didn't want to get into rebuilding the engineif I didn't have too.
Here is a pic of the piston that's in my engine. It's the one on the left side of the pic.


Here is the Spec document that Larry70GS sent me on the Kenne Belle pistons.



(5) John did have my engine bored .030 over. He did not deck the block in order to save the engine ID (SR).
(6) John does the engine oiling modification as standard practice.
(7) The Buick came with a tuned QJet 750, but it was damaged to the point it couldn't be saved.
The shop purchased another QJet but it turned out to be bad right out of the box.
The shop asked me if I would go with a Holley, and I said yes. I have experience with Holley's and have had very good performance with them.
The shop bought a 750 CFM 4150 Holley with mechanical secondaries and electric choke. I ran the car hard and found no problem with the Holley, NO bog or hesitation with the mechanical secondaries. Even from an idle I when WOT and it ran great. That said, I felt like there was some performance missing. Just happened that the MSD the shop installed died less than a month later. The head mechanic and shop owner replaced the MSD, as they were retuning the engine, the shop owner found a vacuum leak in the Holley. After removing the front fuel bowl, he found a casting defect that was causing the leak. Got another Holley under warranty.
That said, I have NOT driven the car with these repairs. I hope to find a little more performance.
I have been told by a huge number of forum members that I should have at least a 800 CFM or 850 CFM carb on the 455. That blew me away,
seems these 455's like BIG carbs, that I didn't know.

Now you know the whole story of what has been done to this engine. Hopefully, all the engine mods will wake-up this engine.
Some other repairs were done because I also had high water temperatures. Also found the crank damper damaged.
(1) Replaced damper and all belts.
(2) Replaced radiator with Griffin Alum 2 Core tubes.
(3) Replaced clutch-fan.
(4) Replaced thermostat with high volume model.
(5) Replaced water pump with a TA Performance high performance water pump.
(6) Replaced timing chain cover with a TA model that has a neoprene crank seal that can be replaced from the front without removing the timing chain cover. the original had a rope seal that was leaking oil.

So, you can see, I spent a lot of $$$$$'s. Now it's time to see some positive results.

I want to thank everyone for your help and advise you have provided to me. Thank you. VET (Navy)

 

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