Well, We may be out of business before we ever really got a chance to get in. We picked up the 69gs400 4 speed convertible from 30+ years of storage. I posted last week that upon removing the seats and carpet, that it needed a new floor. Well, today I started examining the boxed frame and it has some very bad spots that have disintegrated. We are at a crossroads now. The remainder of the body and interior are in used, good, OK, shape, the way my dad left it in 1985. Looking at how much the various parts, emblems, etc cost, I was pretty happy that I did not need to buy all that. Now I think it is beyond our capability both money wise and skill level. As I had stated in previous posts, this was intended to be a father/son project to get the late grandfather's car running again. We had planned on rebuilding the engine, replacing the top, doing the body work and painting. I had done those things as a young man. A great Buick forum member is giving me a very good shape floor pan for next to nothing. I was in the process of determining where to get it installed, But I think the frame situation is the deal breaker. We would love to hear some advice from you all on this situation, as we don't have any local folks we can talk to and work with. Much appreciated, Joe and Joey .
Post in the Wanted Section. Someone here may have a chassis. AND, Before you take out the floor pans or the body off the frame, make certain to weld steel bars across the upper inside of the door openings.
I put a shout out to a "Goat Whisperer" to see if he can offer any leads on a frame. Don't give up yet. Often in this "chase", you will find yourself in the weeds, but so many "have been there, done that", and can help you get clarity on what it will take to continue or if it is time to cut your losses. Some beautiful cars and fulfilled lives have resulted from pushing through the rust and the frustration.
Joe and Joey, I will provide a different perspective looking at glass half empty instead of half full.....which I don't like to do. You are not alone as this happens to so many. You already have an advantage because you are able to identify and accept reality and the first step to making a good decision is accepting the facts early on. Some cars are just too far gone and not worth pursuing even when sentimental factor is considered. The risk is too high financially and emotionally. Its just not the money, you want a project that gives yourselves a good chance of success and pleasure all through the process relative to the skill sets and experience you have. The satisfaction of completing a major project provides lifetime memories of accomplishment but can also haunt you for life like a failed marriage. A car this rusty is going to have many other challenges yet to be discovered. I say move on and find something in better shape to start with. No rust!
Folks, We really appreciate all the information, and hope you keep it coming. Right now we have essentially no money into the car. So, my thought was a 1969 GS 400 4 speed with white top and white buckets and not the original engine, would be worth putting 10 grand and a lot of sweat into to making it a nice driver. It now looks like another 5 grand. If my expectations are for a nice driver car - how much would you put into this model before you started chasing a money pit? All input is welcomed and appreciated. Joe and Joey
It's worth having a pro look at the car and give you an estimate to repair. If the car is still straight it may be possible to repair without killing you. You need a real welder -- not a hack
If you have the money to burn, remember, you will never get the years back. If it is a father and son, once in a lifetime thing and you can afford to press on, then press on. I have spent more than most people with reason and sanity will/would spend on a project with my current Skylark, but I am fighting the clock and have not been in the "scene" for 40 years. I spent the past 40 raising a family and chasing "the" American Family dream. And denied myself the whole time, yet was still accused of being selfish for working to provide the needs and the wants for others. Sometimes it's not about the money or how hard the venture, but that you do it, enjoy it for what it is and be content. Only you and your son and the "payoff" you get out of this are the important aspect. And if having "dad's/grandpa's" car in all of this adds to the lifelong satisfaction, then do it. At the far end of your life you will not regret trying, spending and failing, you will regret the not trying, doing or spending. And you never can buy more time. Hope that does not come across as depressing, it is intended just the opposite. If I had a time machine, I would go back and take myself out for pie...
I have a '71 GS vert project (I had posted on your other thread too) that was someone else's unfinished business and had pretty much decided, despite it being a rare car, that if the frame had holes I wasn't going to go there - The previous owner had already more or less ruined the car with their attempted resto. It's already an epic sheetmetal job & there won't be much left of the orig. car. In your case, it is a BB 4-sp., (mine is a 350/auto, albeit one of 600) you and your son are doing it together (potentially priceless - my kids have very little interest), and it was the boy's grandfather's car which again is hard to put a price on. Considering you're having someone do at least some of the work (floors and possibly paint?), you'll be hard pressed to do the car for $10-15k, but given the circumstances above that may not really mattter. In my case, being a 350 (I happen to like 350's and really like this car) and in yours (NOM stepchild) it's a losing proposition financially if you factor in the time, let alone the the $ in parts/labor, but in many ways it's not about the $. In your case even less so than mine. We happen to have a hobby that there is at least some potential to recoup some of the costs, unlike many others. In your case, your son would probably never sell the car anyway but might someday wish you hadn't given up on it depending how sentimental he was. I remember my grandfather's AMC Gremlin & VW beetle & my other grandfather's 4-door Impala & some of my parent's cars when I was young, but none were anything special as far as cars go so I had/have no desire to findbrestore them. But if they'd had what you have...
Great advice from all, thank you. We are still enjoying getting to the bottom of this, so in that sense, the project is paying off for now. Seems like we might be in a catch 22, and would like to know what you think. It would be great to inspect the frame very carefully to decide if we should continue. However, it seems we should take the body off to gain access to the frame. Being boxed, I think this is critical to getting a true assessment without the body blocking visual access. However, to remove the body on the convertible, it seems like we need the floor pan to be replaced first, to retain structural integrity, and to not lose alignment of the body panels. If I do that, I am back to putting too much time and money in before knowing if I should. I get the feeling bracing would not work reliably. Once the body is off, it better not lose its geometry, or we are cooked! Ideas, thoughts? Joe and Joey
Maybe if you get the car up on a lift somewhere, you can give it a full examination. If you have a local shop with a lift, they may rent it to you for enough time for an evaluation. TAKE PICS!!!
If you call these guys in Ohio that Jim Jones posted; https://columbus.craigslist.org/pts/6085845528.html And ask them, how much for a convertible frame that is powder coated ready to assemble is, you can go ahead and replace the floor on the other frame before you transfer it over, Doing it with an extra frame allows you to build the new frame to a rolling chassis before you swap over the car body. That's what I did with my convertible, got a Whirly Jig rotisserie and set it up with the rusted out frame even made spacers to raise the car up from the frame for better access, welded braces where the frame was weak and have the second frame to build up when I got sick of doing body work for a while. You don't have to get a rotisserie but it makes that kind of work SO MUCH easier than laying on your back. With a couple of floor jacks and some carefully placed 4x4s in an rectangle pattern bolted together under the body with the frame on jack stands would be a good way to space the body up for easier access to replace the floor. That free floor offered to you can be quartered so you only have to deal with one corner at a time or even halved from front to back if you think you could get it in that way. Its a bit of work, but doable if you're up to spending the time to do the work and you have the space to work on the car. I'm sure there are youtube videos as well you could watch for more detailed instructions as well. When cutting the free floor apart, make sure you don't cut the braces with the floor, drill the spot welds out and only cut through the actual floor sheet metal. This is if you think cutting the floor in quarter would be easier. If you cut the floor in a front to back 2 piece strategy try to cut in the center of a brace leaving it welded on one side and drill out the spot welds on the other side. Take pictures of all the stages of the repair to share them here if in you do decide to rescue the car. I hope you save this car, its up to you though. GL Derek
If you go to a shop that really knows frame welding they will put it on a lift and take you through the issues. I've been thru this step. It will cost $100 for an hour of someone's time but it was so worth it.It's not just what you see it's having someone next to you that nows what's easy to deal with and what's a killer. It might not be 100% accurate but it will be 95%. You can see more than you realize. If you missed something you could go back to it when the floor is being repaired.
This is the rotisserie after researching them the one that looked like the best one for the job; http://whirlyjig.com/ That was a long time ago though so there might be something better out there? You source the black pipe that connects the 2 ends, locally, makes shipping less costly that way. You end up with a very sturdy rotisserie that will help hold the shape of the car. With a convertible though you need to weld in a brace towards the top of the door opening to keep that area from buckling when it is spun upside down. Even with the top pipe kit I would still weld in some bracing towards the top of the door opening for a bit of extra insurance it doesn't move there. Once the car is balanced, sinning it can be done with one finger! There are lessor expensive ones out there, but I like the fact that this one was made in U.S.A. way back when I bought one. And it looked a whole lot sturdier than the others out there at that time. Not sure if in they still are made in U.S.A. though? But I think they still are. Let me know what you think and if you have anymore questions. Derek
Thanks everyone, again. I got underneath the car today, and realize the underneath is too far gone to build off of. Simply amazing what NY winters can do to a car, even after it was off the road since the mid 80s. I guess that salt just keeps working on the car slowly but surely. We still dont want to give up just yet. The body will need a new floor, and the remainder of the car needs what I used to consider normal NY rust in the fenders. Do you think we replace the floor that we can find a rolling convertible box frame to transfer to? I found a guy selling nice frames, but I think it would be better to get something that has suspension, etc. already. Or is that just plain crazy?
I agree with Smokey on getting it to a lift with lots of light for a full inspection. As someone that is currently working a 69 vert car I believe the costs you estimated are are going to be off quite a bit once you tear into this, even if building a driver. Take some pics and post here, lots of experience here to help. I would expect rust around the windshield and some in the a-pillars especially in the corners, this is all hid until you get the a-pillar trim, weatherstripping, molding and vinyl material off header. Lower front fender where it bolts to the cowl is another area that is most likely rusty. I would assume that if the frame is that bad the inner/out wheelhouses will probably need attention and possibly the trunk drops. These are not reproduced and will need to be found from a rust-free parts car. I would check the inside wells where the convertible cylinders are mounted. You already mentioned floors but I would assume trunk floor has some hidden spots as well once you get out the gas tank. Finding a complete suspension might not be a bad idea since most of the components lower control arms, upper control arms, springs, braces etc are most likely badly pitted if the frame is that bad. If you are building a driver then a blast/paint might be good enough either way they will need attention. I would make a list of everything you want to replace/needs replaced along with paint/body work costs, engine rebuild costs, chrome plating costs, interior costs, tire/rim costs etc. and add the costs before you start add 20-30% for the stuff you did not think of to get an idea of what you will be into the car for. I have a spreadsheet that I started when I brought my car home and I had kept track of everything I purchased including supplies for the car and I can tell you it adds up fast but the car is worth saving if you have the time and money. Feel free to PM me with any questions
I located a 1969 Chevelle convertible rolling frame in supposedly very good shape for $1500. Question is how much of the undercarriage will work on a 1969 Buick GS? Can anybody offer a definitive answer? I might try this, as it will be my only big investment, and the kid and I are having some fun trying to figure things out. If we cant pull it off, I am not out that much.
Keep your eyes peeled for a frame.. I sold a rot/ rust free one for $500 several years ago to be used on an Oldsmobile. I am not 100% sure on the chevelle frame being the same... ???
