I suggested using the cam makers lifters so there's no finger pointing when 1 or the other goes bad. Crower knows what material/hardness works with their cam and TA know what works with their cam. That said lifters are all built to a "spec" and should be interchangeable. I would convert to the 1970 style oiling as it's easier to get parts. There's 10 guys on this forum who would send you a set of 1970 style rockers and shafts for not much more than shipping cost.
Hi all, thanks for the replies. This might have all taken a turn to a completely different way and I might just order everything of TA. The reason for trying to buy most of it from summit, and therefore all this trying to match crower cams with lifters, etc, was to use my friend shop as he orders from summit, but seeing as he's being a dick at the moment, I might do it all myself, having to order, pay shipping and import tax, which in that case TA is probably the best option to get all the parts correct for this engine, and they know Buicks, according to what you all said before. but there you go, you find who your friends are when you need help. I'm really sorry, feel like i've been wasting everyones time. in a rigth bad mood at the moment, just got back from workshop and 8 lifters don't want to come out. Will have to wait till i get the engine out and knock them out from the underside. kind of losing it with all of this at the moment. Need some sleep now, tomorrow I'll try make a list of all the parts I need using TA website and then shoot them an email to ask how much for all of it with shipping and see how it goes. If I remember right this was the cam? - http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_212-350 and then ask them for everything to match this cam - lifters, pushrods, valve springs, retainers and seals. plus all the other bits, gasket set, valley pan, timing chain, oil regulator, oil booster plate and rebuild kit. left the truck like this as was about to start breaking things.
Take a Dremel with a small mounted stone, push lifter down enough so you can rotate it while grinding the mushroomed edge off with the Dremel. They will come right out without pounding them from the underside. Don't create additional scoring / damage. Cam may need to be removed to have the most room for the Dremel treatment. Take a deep breath, you'll get it done.
He's NOT doing a total rebuild so he wouldn't be able to get the dremel debris out, other than that, it would be a good way to do it.
I wouldn't consider anything a waste. You're learning some very valuable things here regardless of which bumpy cast iron rod you put into it, and checking everything is always best no matter which path is taken. All too often this is the typical mindset of a rebuilder though, and that is: well, while I'm in it, might as well go with something other than stock! I mean, who rebuilds an engine all stock anyway, right? Other than old men who just want it to turn over and push their classic down the road. Truth is, these 'stock' cams aren't 'stock' at all. They've been re-engineered to be better than the originals, though they're considered the 'OEM replica' type cam. I'm not trying to talk you into our out of anything, I simply wish to inform you of the options and the pros and cons associated with them. Use the Crower level 2 cam, and be ready to deal with close to 8:1 DCR. The level 3 will give you about 7.5:1 The Cs647 will give you slightly north of 7:1 This is with your stock '69 pistons and likely (actual) SCR. Which type of fuel are you planning to run in it? With DCRs being the same, the cs647 compares to these cams very well; however--with nothing else changed, using the aftermarket cams increase DCR by making the IVC point earlier. This is the majority of the 'performance gain' people see when swapping cams of this calibre. There is more to this story, though. Yes, more power, but also to consider is the fuel to be used. This engine will be built and run for years to come, so getting an idea of the type of fuel you wish to use in it on a regular basis is an important aspect to consider. Alternatively, you could use the Crower level 2 cam and retard it 4* for a better safety margin against detonation, but will require degree'ing it in, of course, which you were planning on anyway. Don't give up. It can get frustrating, especially for you who isn't in the USA and has to deal with extra limitations/expenses. No, you don't need Crower specific lifters for use with a Crower cam. Lifters are probably sourced from somewhere else anyway. The reason we were saying it's a good idea to get parts from the same manufacturer is because if something goes wrong, then the manufacturer can't blame it on a parts mismatch, which in this case wouldn't be the issue anyway, but you know how they try to weasel their way out of things (or can). Anyway, you said warranty isn't an issue for you anyway due to the shipping costs, so any set of hydraulic flat tappet will work. Just make sure the lengths are correct.
He's got more cam lobe & lifter debris inside now. Maybe with cam removed, 1/2 of a cardboard gift wrap tube lengthwise to catch most debris.
You're not wasting anyone's time. We do this because we enjoy it. Take your time and relax. We're here for ya buddy! Get TA's latest rendition of their "RV" cam and use that then. Give us the specs and we'll sort out the DCR and install point. OR use the 112 cam, or whatever. Custom isn't much more than off-shelf from them. If you trust me, I'll put together some specs for TA to grind into a cam for you, or you can use their recommendation. There's options. EDIT: I just noticed you listed the TA 212-350 cam. Truthfully, this would be a fun cam for your truck also. Here's my reasoning: that Buick 350 with factory '69 pistons in it is going to have some nice compression for use with this 212 cam, and the IVC point is close to the cs647 cam so fuel won't be an issue (70* vs 71*). The big Holley 2 barrel will give it a very nice mid-range power band, and would tame it down enough on the top end while helping it out on the lower end. You'll get a nice lope too, which is what you wanted to begin with if I remember correctly? The 212 cam is in the middle ground on performance, not too high, not too low, and is very versatile. The 2 barrel and exhaust manifolds will keep it tame enough for your truck's needs. You're a Harley guy, so like to hear that nice rumble at an idle. My brother's a Harley guy too.
Check out the end goal when the light at the end of the tunnel seems far away: when this engine is all together and running and tuned good, it's going to perform so well you'll be amazed. That truck won't know how to handle all the torque lol
Hi all. thanks for the kind words.... they were needed. I'm a bit more calm this morning, and ready to tackle this nightmare again. So TA replied to my email when I questioned lifters with 5/16 cups and pushrods with 3/8 balls and lifters with oiling holes.. their answer was: - All lifters now have oiling holes, but it doesn't make a difference because if using solid pushrods it will block it - Lifters with 5/16 cups (oiling hole) will work with 3/8 ball ends pushrods. The only thing they didn't clarify was if their lifters are 3/8 or 5/16 cups. On this last note, I did take a photo yesterday of a 3/8 ball end pushrod and a 5/16 ball end hollow pushrod against my rocker arm, and doesnt seem much of a difference. 5/16 ball hollow pushrod on the left, 3/8 ball solid pushrod on the right Anyway, this morning I have compiled an email to TA asking for advice on parts and to get and full cost to the UK.. see what they say. It might be the case I don't need certain parts to go with the cam, I don't know.. I'll see what they say. Thanks Gary for your advice on the posts above, I think I'll go with that TA cam, the 212. As you put it - will be a fun cam for the truck, that sounds good to me! Engine Gasket Kit Valley Pan Timing Gear Cam – TA212-350 Valve springs to work with the cam Spring retainers Valve seals Hydraulic lifters to go with the cam Pushrods to go with the cam and lifters Hardned cam bearing – TA1559S Oil pressure regulator – TA1502 Oil pump rebuild kit – TA1507 Booster plate – TA1510 I still hope my friend will stop being a dick and actually help me out with that big summit parts list with the Crower level 2, etc... as that would be cheaper than me doing it myself and I wouldn't feel like I've been wasting my time and all of yours. we shall see. If he comes round then I might revert back to the summit parts list and use TA lifters, pushrods,cam bearing and oil pump parts as that was only 48 dollars postage. Oh and Gary, yes I do like that rumble at idle, I have 3 harleys, all Shovelheads, 1968, 1976 and 1979. - My plan is to hopefully get a 1950s Panhead at some point. The 1976 is the one I ride everywhere, take it to France, Belgium and all over the UK. I have built it from standard into a an old school chop, I make everything, tabs, adaptor plates, brackets, sissy bar, handlebars... the whole lot. here's a photo of my 76 next to one of my friends Galaxy, outside our workshop.
yes I probably do from trying to remove the lifters. Once the engine is out I'll turn it upside down, take the oil pan out and try clean as much and as best as I can. I have patience for little fiddly jobs like that, well, depending on the day and my mood. hahaha
Very nice! It must be awesome to ride that bike around and take it into mainland Europe. Ever been to Germany? The sights you must have seen with the wind in your hair. Now that's freedom! TA may say the stock springs are ok, but those are old tired springs and should be replaced. Might as well get the "Stage 1" springs TA offers in that case. You won't have to machine your heads with those, providing you don't use the dampers, which should be ok. TA will verify this. If the 212 sounds like something you want, stick with this plan. TA makes Buick parts exclusively, and we should support them. Crower doesn't make a cam similar to the 212. The level 3 is smaller, and the level 4 is too big when compared to the 212. Many people have used the 212 with much success, and in a wide range of engine combinations and applications.
Sweet shovel! I can appreciate a good chop being a triumph dude myself. Looks like something Max Schaaf would build..
Hi all, sorry not much updates. Not had time to get the engine out yet and inspect oil pump, etc...and no reply from TA yet regarding how much and advice on my parts list from them. I will update as soon as something new happens. thanks for the words on the shovel. Gary, nah never been to Germany, well not on the bike anyway, been there but flown over to Nuremberg.
The area between your cylinders That thin strip of deck- it looks like head gaskets were not sealing cylinders. Any discoloration or darkening indicates failure
A couple more things- use e rotella gold15w40.0il diesel withthe compound necessary for older hydraulicflat tappet engines.that's only way to keep from wiping out ca m. If you take engine out leave it on floor and get a Chevy 350. The tough part will be finding 1 that will Cleanup at. 030
I broke in my '76 350 with no oil pressure (thought I had a bad gauge, forgot oil galley plugs, fixed them) and used that grey moly paste instead of cam lube. Engine lasted 5600 miles until it ate the front cam bearing and chewed up the bearings. Cam looked new. Motor never used a drop of oil, made it three oil changes (after break in 10W30 comp cams oil) before breaking. I've never gotten why everyone is so deathly afraid of having a flat tappet go flat. If it does, you screwed something up.
Just make sure you have a good break in oil (you can order that on summit!), lube the **** out of the cam and lifters, and have good oil pressure. I got lucky, but it proves you don't need oil as thick as cold syrup and all these additives. On subsequent oil changes I ran whatever 10w30 I could find, mostly oreilly brand. I was a broke teenager man.
It was late may of last year. Crappy audio/video courtesy of the stupidest smartphone I've ever owned. I put the video on youtube in December. Engine crapped out in early February of this year on my way to school.
