I'm interested in build recipes for the 215 and mighty 300. I read the sticky for the 300 build and am curious if anyone would share their build recipe? I would like to build a 215 with a 300 crank. And I would like to build a 300 with a 340 or 350 crank. So, please share your build recipes. And please share your machine shop locations especially if they are knowledgeable in the 215 and 300. Thanks ya'll
The 300 with the 350 crank can use the 300 rods and just needs pistons with a shorter compression height. Derek will probably be along shortly to suggest pistons/rods. Pay attention to the compression height, chamber volume, squish, and dish volume. TA Rover heads with that short block would make quite a motor. If you invest enough for forged pistons and decent rods you can get a lot of reliable power out of it. Sonic check the block, keep the bearing clearances tight and do the recommended oiling mods. Jim
Just seen this thread because of the changeover, anyway I wrote a few things for a sbb 300 build in your other thread that you might like. What's the budget for your sbb 300 stroker build that you want to stay around and how do you want it to run? That would make it easier to help plot out a build recipe for you. Derek
Budget would be pretty low at the moment, but given a few tax returns somewhere between $1,500 qne $2,500. Would be primarily street use with a possible run down the dray way a time or two. Automatic transmission. Chevy Luv or possibly a MG, Triumph, Sunbeam or Alpha... Something small and light. Thanks you guys, appreciate all of the information. Ken
Well to do just a nascar take out rod with a 350 crank stroker engine the short block would be around $2,000 plus or minus about $400 but probably more likely plus maybe even more. Because of sourcing the 350 crank and stroking even more and having the mains ground down from 3.00" to 2.75" or to 2.500" whichever you decide, would be a quite pricey crank. Stroking the 300 crank and building a 321 would be a lot more budget friendly even more so if the crank's mains can get away with just polishing? You could use the longer take out rods like the 6.450" ones I can post a link for and a set of AutoTec pistons would make a VERY strong low end ready for some RPM!! With as light as a vehicle as you're using, you don't need all that torque from doing a "budget" 300 stroker. The budget stroker would use the stock 300 rods with olds 307 pistons, or sbb 350 rods with 4 cylinder Ford pistons and just the extra for mains being ground down.(crank would probably cost as much as having the 300 crank stroked) Both of these options aren't what I would really call a "performance" build, more of a decent low end torque truck engine with limited RPM.(even though the engine is going into a small truck I don't think you want to use it as a truck?) For your vehicle and budget I would go with the nascar take out rods and stroking the 300 crank(still a sbb 300 stroker, just not as much more cubes gained). The sbb 300 for a smaller CID engine is a torquey little engine, and extra 21 cubes would be a sweet little runner in a light vehicle like your project. With the nascar take out rods you can't make enough power with any variation of the sbb 300 or stroker to break those rods unless of coarse with tons of boost, but seriously I think the crank or block would break first. The 321 would need a custom or customizable piston like the 4032 forged sbb 350 AutoTec pistons. If plans ARE to add tons of boost in the future then 2618 forged alloy custom pistons would be a better choice. The AutoTec pistons are sold as a piston and ring kit so pick a bore size that has good performance rings for that size because its the same price if its a bore diameter with only crappy rings available. The 321 will have the lightest rotating assembly and will rev super fast. It is still a small enough CID to possibly adapt a Rover intake like the Hufftaker(nor sure if I'm spelling this right) and be able to feed the engine? The TA Rover heads would be a great add on with this build for possibly next year if you wanted to add more power? Feel free to ask any questions, or PM me your phone number with a good time to call and we can discuss this further in length. Derek
Please post the link for the NASCAR take out rods and the AutoTec pistons, I'd like to take a look. Thanks.
Here's the set to use if you want to stroke the 300 crank; http://www.ebay.com/itm/181969787105?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Here is a real nice example of what's out there for a set of nascar take out rods if in you decide you want to max out the cubes with a stroked sbb 350 crank; http://www.ebay.com/itm/151798405083?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Of coarse there are others sets of rods available for either style of stroker if these 2 sets get sold or you don't like them. We don't know how long nascar will be using rods that can be made to work in our small block Buick engines so for anyone reading this keep that in mind because to buy a set of these rods new is over a $2,000 hit! The AutoTec pistons are sold as a pistons and ring kit; http://www.buyracingparts.com/pisto...totec-forged-350-buick-dished-piston-kit.html There is a flat top version as well if in you want to get crazy with compression and run race gas. They're listed as sbb 350 pistons but seeing how you can custom order these they will work great for a sbb 300 as well. Don't let the price scare you off using these pistons because you can actually save $$ from machining costs that would be needed with cheaper pistons to make them able to run half way decent. Also being able to use the lessor expensive head gaskets and be able to re-use your pushrods. And not having to excessively mill your heads to get your desired compression ratio because you saved a couple bucks on pistons and a few other things we'll discuss later. I hope this helped you see some of the possibilities of what can be done with a sbb 300 stroker. Derek
Okay, the SBB sounds like the place to start. I've got to get the block checked out and sonic tested. To stroke the 300 crank, what needs to be done?
Well, to stroke the 300 crank you take it to your local crankshaft shop and have them offset grind the rod journals .140" from 2.00" to 1.850" and from a 3.400" stroke to a 3.540" stroke to fit your new to you nascar take out rods with bearings in them. The rods will need to be slightly narrowed to .845", the sbb size. Both sets of rods that I linked are .900" wide but not all nascar take out rods are the same thickness so keep an eye on that. You want the .900" wide ones to machine down to .845" because the Buick rods are offset and when you take the extra .055" off of the non-chamfered side they'll be ready to install very close to the factory offset. The factory offset pushes the rod's centerline closer to the shared rod on the crank's journal. I tried calling about 20 minutes ago and there was no answer, you should have my number on your caller ID if you want to call me back before 11:00 pm EST. Derek
Derek, good talking to you last night. I'll get my keister down to the local machine shop and find out about grinding the crank. Like we discussed, I know they can work the block just not sure about the crank. I'll keep you posted.
Just thinking, I know, I know, it's a dangerous thing! But if you can stroke a 300 crank and gain some cubes, can you stroke a 215 crank? Is there any benefit?
You sure can, you just need to figure out a good piston and rod combination to do it with. There are some shorter nascar take out rods for sale that are 6.00" that might work for that? Either get a custom piston or try to find an off the shelf piston that might work. Not sure how many more cubes .140" of more stroke will give a 215 and if that would be worth paying the premium to have the crank ground? Lets do the math; R squared X PI X number of cylinders X stroke = 226.28 with a standard bore and a 2.940" stroke. So basically around an extra 11 cubes for the extra stroke There are even shorter rods that might do the job better @ 5.900" and give you more stroke, like a Mitsubishi rod with a 1.771" for an extra .220" extra stroke!! That would yield a stroke of 3.02" and with a .060" over bore you can make your 215 a 240.48 CID!(that's if in you can overbore that much?) That's 25.48 more CID over the factory 215 CID. Here is a set of rods that might work for example; http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRS5900MA3D...ash=item2eff589749:g:SmYAAOSwOddYx2fH&vxp=mtr You'll need to buy 2 sets though because those are for a 4 cylinder, and they will need to be narrowed on the big end and possibly the small end as well depending on what pistons you find to work with them. Not sure if the AutoTec pistons can be made with that small of a diameter but it wouldn't hurt to ask if an extra 25 cubes over 215 would be worth it to you with the more expensive parts? A stroked 300 crank in the 215 would be even better and would yield an 281.887 so an 282 CID sbb from a 215 if it can be bored .060" over? Basically 67 more cubes than factory. The one I like the best would be a sbb 350 crank in a 215, but it would probably would be a good idea to destroke it so it will fit with a 6.00" or the listed Mitsubishi rod because of the 215's short deck height. Using the 4.6 Rover block would be even better because of its 3.700" bore, .200" bigger than the 215 to get even more cubes. There may even be an off the shelf sbc 305 piston that can be made to work going this route? With a sbc standard bore 305 with its 3,736" bore size for the 4.6L Rover block and a 3.63" stroke using the Mitsubishi rods you could make an 318.346 CID all aluminum engine. Even if you can get this one together, I'm not sure how long it would last though or how durable it would be doing this? I have heard guys talk about a Rover stroker with just a 300 crank not holding together from the power it makes, the destroked sbb 350 crank would probably make it fail even faster? Derek
That goes with the 215 blocks as well with extra cubes as well I believe. More info about what these little engines can handle on the MBG websites, perhaps Jim Blackwood can shed some light on this? Derek
This sounds like the Buick I need to build for my project. Focusing on getting the car on the road by the end of the year. 59 Opel (see avatar) 4 link rear, strut front end. I call it a zip code car that'll get about a half dozen trips to the 1/8th mile drag strip. Currently needs floors, cage, plumbing and wiring installed but right now weighs in at 1900 lbs. Currently has a stock mild cam 350 in it but been wanting to build a 300 I have laying around. Might have to start gathering parts for one of these builds.
Do it! Parts are few but they're out there. Just something about those SBB. Your Opel should be a screamer!
Okay fella's, does Kenne Bell still make Buick cams? I looked on the web site and all I found was superchargers.... Not that it's a bad thing! The first 215 will be mostly stock with the exception of 300 heads (stock) and intake manifold. I'd like to find a decent street cam with lots of attitude. We may wind up going 0.030 over depending on the condition of the cylinders.
I've been messing with these little engines for about 35 years now, and nobody has to listen but I'll make some suggestions. First, the 300 block is 80 lbs heavier than the 215 block, which isn't a lot. For that 80 lbs you get more room for a crank, much stronger threads, cylinder liner-to-block integrity, and 9/16" taller decks. Plus 135 cu. inches (1.5L) right off the bat and another 50 waiting on a 350 crank. I'll take that trade. The bellhousing is also about $300 cheaper. If you really want to build a 215 based engine you can start with the 4.6L Rover. It is a pretty good engine, has a larger bore, but they do have some issues with cracking behind the cylinder liners and with liner slippage. There is a definite limit to how far out you can take the bores. We had a guy go all the way to 4" once, I think that engine made it part way through the first dyno run and we've never heard another word about it. I wouldn't take that chance. I do not know what would be required to fit the 350 crank into the 215 block. I've heard there are some clearance issues but can't confirm them. Seems like there are some differences in the 215 and 300/340 pans though so you'd want to look at that first. I do believe you might be able to fit the rods and pistons in below the deck with the right choice of parts, though a slipper style piston would be a necessity to clear the crank, and you might be into the oil ring land with the piston pin. Finding the right length rod would be crucial. The aluminum blocks are not as durable or rigid as cast iron, that much should be obvious from the weight difference. (The 215 block weighs only 60lbs, an LS aluminum block weighs about the same as the 300 iron block.) So if you want to build for maximum performance the 300 is a much better choice. The 215 has weak threads and stud pull-out is a concern. The Rover blocks appear to be denser (and weigh as much as 30lbs more) but have liner issues. They have a color dot in the lifter valley for grading from the foundry, some are best avoided. I think you want to look for the pink dot but you'd best confirm that. Jim
Huh?!? What? Did you say something, Jim?!? I actually agree with you, the 300 block is a much better platform to build. And I intend to build one. Right now, for affordability, I have a lot more 215 parts in the garage and can probably scrape together a nice little somewhat stock 215 for the initial Luv motor. Like you mentioned, the bell housing is going to be rather expensive unless there is a way to mate a stock bellhousing to a BW T5. The 300 block will need to be sleeved in one cylinder. So, I'm hunting another 300 block and crank. And I'd like to find another set of 64 Aluminum heads. I've read where the Rover block is susceptible to cracking, like the old ford Flathead blocks. And I've read where they tend to come apart. So, it's doesn't seem that either the 215 or Rover block are much better, one or the other. What about the Oldsmobile 215 block? They are a little thicker than the Buick I've read. That's the first I've heard of a foundry dot signifying a grade from the foundry. Interesting! ken
Found this on the land Rover Forum site. "There is a book "how to power tune a rover v8" that explains how in 97' LR started grading there blocks. Best quality were marked as red blocks and send for 4.6 builds, blue the lowest quality was used for 4.0."
