455 100hp Gain?

Discussion in 'Race 400/430/455' started by BigBlockSkylark, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. GS Kubisch

    GS Kubisch THE "CUT-UP" BUICK

    The investment in a roller cam is NOT a practical "Upgrade" to a stock engine.

    A roller cam is part of a "package" in a new engine combination.
     
  2. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    With 1900$ do you think I could get a roller cam? or is the hydraulic flat cam a better choice?
     
  3. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    So what do you suggest? A hydraulic flat cam?
     
  4. TheSilverBuick

    TheSilverBuick In the Middle of No Where

    All depends on the lift. He may need new valve springs regardless of roller or flat tappet cam anyways. I still say, roller cam+accessories, shorty headers, valve springs and gaskets, will be under $1900. I'm answering the question for 100HP for $1900. Another possible route would be to sink the money into 10:1 compression pistons (with valve relief's), boring, balancing, etc and a reasonably large flat tappet cam, but that could very well take all the dollars and still be leaving exhaust manifolds on the car, but at least exhaust manifolds are easy to swap out later in the car. Get some prices from a local machine shop to do a cost analysis. There is more than one avenue on options.

    I like driving my cars, I can't disagree with the others on possibly starting with the rear and some good gears and converter. Optimizing the drivetrain to make the most of the HP the engine is making is a good thing to do. Heck I'm running 4.56 gears behind a straight six and the thing feels like a rocketship (it ain't though..), and a 200-4r to keep it highway friendly.

    Personally, I'd go, 3.42 gears, TH400, and a 212 flat tappet cam for a total drivetrain package to start with until you are ready (have money for) for some pistons, compression and a good sized cam and maybe some aluminum heads in the mix.

    If you are going to college or need to live a bit frugally for a few years, I'd use a TH700-r4 or TH200-4r transmission behind it (big'ish $$$ up front), and gear the car with 3.23-3.42 gears, with the 212 or smaller cam and knock down 20+mpg's and be able to do burnouts for miles.
     
  5. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    First of all thanks so much on the response, alot of info and I'm taking notes. I'll probably head over to TA performance, there's one a mile away at the airpark. I have a t400 trans and a ford rear end with 3.50 and track lock posi. I do realize there are many ways to work at this for a quicker car, I honestly just don't know which way to go. I'm just focusing on this next year on what to do for it. Ill check around my resources on what to get. So far people are saying NO to the roller cam but I have no clue on whether to get one or not.
     
  6. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD"

    I say save your money and get a set of aluminum heads with entry level porting. TA says their aluminum heads are good for 50+HP on a 10:1 engine with no other changes. With ported aluminum heads and 230* of intake duration, you make an easy 500 HP, probably more. I know you are 17 and that money is burning a hole in your pocket. Save your money until you can do it right. When JW tested my engine, he ran it with 3 cams. My roller was worth about 30 HP, but my heads flow 334/250@.600 lift. Heads are the foundation for everything you do to the engine. You can use a smaller cam with good heads, and get more power and better street ability. I remember what it was like to be 17. Take my advice. Slow down and read up on this site.

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-Specs-and-testing-(Larry-s-motor)&highlight=

    http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.p...-s-motor)-Complete-and-Dyno-tested&highlight=
     
  7. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    Yeah I would agree to start with a rear gear swap first knowing what trans he wanted to end up with. If he decides to go with a 700R4 then a 3.08 rear gear is plenty if that is what is in the car already, will need posi for whatever upgrade he decides though so the rear to front is the best way to go.

    HP isn't the only thing that gets the car moving, better gearing will give a seat of the pants improvement more than engine upgrades will. People seem to always want to upgrade the engine thinking that it would be the best bang for the buck, but is not always the case unless the gearing is already optimized.

    And I would agree that a roller cam is a great way to go if he insists on starting backwards by upgrading the good running engine first that probably has 10 to 50 more HP in it with tuning.

    Derek
     
  8. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    A 200R would work very well with a 3.50 gear!

    Fist gear multiplication with the th400 would be 2.48(th400 first gear) X 3.50(rear gear) = 8.68:1 with a 1 to 1 final drive ratio of 3.50:1.

    With a 200R4 would be 2.74 X 3.50 = 9.59:1 with a .67 to 1 final drive ratio of 2.345:1 which would improve off the line performance and cruise mpg.

    But if you plan on keeping the th400 then put the $$ away and save for a complete build and just tune what you have for now. Increasing HP with a stock block without the oil mods it needs for more HP is asking for problems IMO. GL

    Derek
     
  9. ronbz455

    ronbz455 Big Butz Racing

    I don't have a roller cam just hydraulic. I ran 10's with the 66 with a KB 107 cam. Don't waste your money on a roller. This block has .020 deck forged 70 compression Sealed Power pistons, small valve reliefs, filed to fit rings, 70 Electra heads converted to Stage one valves, some porting, match ported, bronze guides, roller rockers, B4B intake when in the 66 with a Fred Catlin 800 QJet. 3.73 12 bolt, KB 2" headers, 8 Inch ATI convertor about 4000 stall. too tight, T400, best time 10.75 but usually 10.80's 3400 lbs. Oh and Stinger ignition which has it's own automatic retard module that let's you set the timing at 3000 RPMs higher than normal. I set mine from 38-42 total timing at 3000 RPMs. That 9" rear will slow you down around 2 tenths. P.S. that block in the 66 had -.005 deck.
     
  10. 70Cat

    70Cat Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't worry too much about the hp number, all it gives you is bragging rights on a dyno sheet. Go for the best bang for the buck early on to maximize what you have. You have good rear gearing already if you have 3.50 gears in there, so don't touch it for now until the rest is built and you need to fine tune it.

    What I would do is put in a 2500-3000ish stall converter, a set of shorty headers and a 212 or slightly bigger cam. With a good tune up, you might only see 40-50hp but the convertor will feel like another 50 off the line. Once that's done you'll need to save up for headwork as that will be your next big choke point. Before you buy a convertor, check to see what's in there, most people forget about upgrading the torque converter.
     
  11. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Good Idea. Ill probably save most of the money up, but alot of people are saying to change the rear first. So maybe I'll do rear first then power later in life. Thanks for the advice!
     
  12. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Would 3.73 gears be better or no, because I'm thinking of changing the rear end.
     
  13. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Yeah people are saying no to the roller, since my engine is completely stock. Ill probably get some new headers as a tiny upgrade and maybe the converter. Maybe Ill touch the rear end up abit too. Thanks for all the advice!
     
  14. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Honestly yeah Ill probably save up the money. but alot of people are telling me to change the rear end.
     
  15. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD"

    Nope, 3.50 gears are fine. Buicks are torque motors, they don't need deep gears, especially on the street. I have 3.73 gears, but I run a 28" tire. That makes the 3.73 gears more like 3.55.
     
  16. 65skylark300

    65skylark300 Silver Level contributor

    If you plan on keeping the turbo 400 I personally wouldn't bother with the gears. If you plan on driving down the highway much I would keep the gears you have. I personally would look into saving a few hundred more dollars up and get a built 200-4r or 700r4transmission. You will feel like you picked up some more power and will be able to go on long highway drives and save some gas money. Also what size tires are you using/want to use?
     
  17. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA


    People were saying that before you told us what gear you have, 3.50:1 is good. One of the O/D transmissions would wake up what you have now with the extra gearing.

    You have to be careful when adding HP to a stock 455 without upgrading the block with the needed oil mods for more than stock HP. I have heard of guys that have spun bearings on a stock 455 without the oil mods that all was done was a good tune on the engine drove hard and boom spun bearings because the oiling couldn't keep up.GL


    Derek
     
  18. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Ill be extra careful or save up. Best thing to probably do is ask TA Performance and see what they say. But thanks so much for the advice I appreciate it!
     
  19. BigBlockSkylark

    BigBlockSkylark Active Member

    Awesome Ill definitely keep the 3.50:1 then! Thanks!
     
  20. Ken Mild

    Ken Mild King of 18 Year Resto's

    Believe in Buick torque. I run consistent high 12's with 3.08 gears, non posi and 2+ second 60 foot times. Stock intake, headers and well ported cast iron heads. For me, low 12's is easily attainable. I even have the stock converter.
     

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