455 running too warm

I’ve had great results with Water Wetter and straight water. Dropped the temps on my duallie under 200 and helped every aspect of how it runs.

 

Wow, good to know! Thank you!

 

Sounds like a crutch. Like knurling valve guides or pistons..

 

Whatever works. GM made those trucks to run at 220° and they go into full fuel mode and make no power. I can contend with it running that way or do what I do and pick up almost 2 mpg at 19K # hauling the race trailer.
If I could knurl my pistons and guides and it helped like that, I’d do it.

 

Oh, man it’s actually funny that you mention knurling pistons though. I did recently buy a piston knurler for some of the class legal stuff where the piston is on its last legal bore size and the guy wants a few more races out of it.
Also, we knurl the brand new 4032 Autotec pistons for the demo derby engines. They run longer and better with no water. The oil retention is the key. Derby stuff is real competitive. Guys will regularly spend $7000+ on an engine. Even more down south with the prize money up to $50K on the big deals. Crazy... who'da thunk.

 

Ron, what year truck?

 

Finally, changed to a 180 thermostat, drilled 2 tiny holes in it as well. Car runs 180 under 65mph, heats up about 10* after driving hard, then comes right back down to 180, in town,highway,etc.. Doesn't matter. 70-80mph cruising runs around 185. I'll chalk it up to the old one wasn't fully opening.

Thanks for the replies and tips everyone.

 

Well, now that it got hotter outside, right back to square one. Running the same as before.

Here are a couple pictures of the radiator and shroud. The fans are maradyne m122k-f fans. With the 180 stat and fans running, it’s idling at 200f. Driving under 65 is pretty much the same.

That makes me wonder if I have both a fan and water pump problem both? They work, but are at their limits. Also, it looks like I have an underdrive water pump pulley. Over 6” across. I think the one I’d want is 5-5/8”(right?). I still haven’t messed with timing, but I don’t think it’s retarded enough to be causing this much of an issue, just a guess though. The fin area of the rad at the top measures roughly 23.5” wide as well.

So, easy first step is pulley. Now should this help with idle temperature as well. Then find typhoon wind capable fans, car also has a 105 amp alternator so I think I can run a couple biguns. I don’t like screwing around, plus a 185 fan switch vs the 195 in now. I want it running cool and comfy.

Thanks fellas

 

Well finally got the timing set. It was 14* at idle and 28* at 3000rpms when I started checking. 3000 is where it stops advancing. Anyway, I raised the timing to 34*. Made no difference in temps but the car sure runs better. So what would be my next step? Smaller water pump pulley, TA water pump, liquid nitrogen coolant?

I also found out something not good either. The car has dual fans and are hooked to a single solenoid controller with a max 30A rating and 30A breaker. I found this out when my fans didn't kick on and the temps got to 230* when I pulled in the driveway. Shut it off and put a couple box fans on top to cool it back down. So on top off all this too warm mess, I need something to run both fans that is rated for the load. The fans are maradyne m122k, 18 amp draw each. Can I get a couple probe type adjustable kits and just use the one probe to control both sets of relays?

 

The vacuum advance does work, adds 12*. Would a stock shroud even fit my radiator? I thought the early 60's rads have both ports on the passenger side, does this even matter? Mine has the outlet on the passenger side.

On the flip side, derale has a 12" fan that can pull 2000cfm, that means nothing to me but it shows it runs around 23-24 amps which tells me faster stronger motors and more aggressive blade pitch, would a pair of those help at idle? Also, I've noticed other shrouds have rubber flaps in the large areas where there's not a fan, how about adding those for cruising?

On the water pump, mine has a 6.5" pulley, should I try and go down to the 5 something inch to spin it faster? Or bite the bullet and get a TA water pump? I have read over and over that running warm while cruising is a water flow issue, but I can't help but wonder if the thin shroud is causing turbulence that won't leave making dead spots the fans don't remove until I come to a stop? Factory shrouds are so deep that they funnel air through ever inch of the radiator, a 1" thick flat shroud doesn't do much funneling.

I do think the timing has helped some because I replaced the relay on the fans, they work again, and went out and drove like a teenager ( taking off hard, very spirited in the curves, hard downshifting), on a deserted road of course, I noticed the temp only hit 210 and slowly but surely would work back down to 200-205. That's just reinforcing that what I have is working, it's just at its limits.

I want the foundation solid for the fun stuff to come.

 

2000 cfm is not enough air flow. You need 4-5000. If you are tied to electric fans, 2004 GTO is a very good fan (dual fans) otherwise I would just run a factory mechanical fan and factory shroud. Unfortunately I don't know a good mechanical fan combo that fits your car.

 

The fan I mentioned says 2000cfm, I'd have 2 of them. Modern cars run electric, but most are all aluminum, super efficient,etc.. But, they somehow cool zr1 corvettes,hellcats, and the like that make way more power than my car does in very cramped spaces, apples to oranges comparison, but I hope you get my point.

I'd be about the same money wise for either, the fans are $140ish each, the only mechanical fan shroud I found was $200 on eBay, plus a fan and spacer if needed. And it would be a crap shoot as to whether the shroud would actually fit at all. But, if I got the stouter electrics and they do nothing either, I'm in the same boat.

I could try a mechanical fan with no shroud just for giggles and see what happens, not very expensive and real easy to undo, I know it's far from ideal, but how many millions of cars ran around like this? I'm sure some very nasty big block A bodies ran like this for years.

All the questions are me trying to learn as well, not arguing. Just wanted to get that out there.

 

Check for re-circulation of air. With the engine idling, hood closed, fans on, blow smoke towards the radiator and see if it comes back out somewhere. I watched a buddy do this once, big puff of smoke into the radiator and it came right out along the underside of the hood.

 

I've read that there is no ansi standard for measuring cfm output with electric fans. So 2000 cfm from one company to another means two different things. Permacool is famous for this. They list their fans way high.

 

I'd use a Late model Mustang GT 5.0 fan, from a salvage yard, or an older Taurus fan.

Probably the best electric fan is the older Lincoln MK8 fan...they are a two speed, which at low speed flows around 3500 cfm, and on high 5000cfm! They're big and pull a lot of amperage though. The fan's shroud is 18.5 x 22", and is 6" deep with the motor protrusion. These guys sell a decent relay & wiring kit to support them. http://www.fanconversion.com/Mark_8_fan.html

Here's a good thread about them. http://forums.tccoa.com/6-general-tech/136722-ultimate-mark-viii-fan-thread.html

The best setup is always a properly working clutch fan with shroud, however with a much thicker radiator, you may not have sufficient clearance for one.

 

I've been reading about the mk8 fan, I have a 105a alternator, but have read the surge current spikes over 100a just to start it, I think this is 0 to full speed, not 0 to slow speed.


I know I could run a regular flex fan, but a clutch fan might be too tight.