My 64 Skylark 300 to 350 Engine Swap Hi Buick Fans I am starting a swap out of the lil 300 in my 64 ragtop to a sbb 350. I plan to post pics and provide updates of my progress for others, if contemplating the same transplant. I'm a somewhat new member on this fine site. Have been compiling as much information from other threads prior to starting this work. Please bear with me, as it's been 20+ years since I've done any major car work. I used to have a 70 Cutlass Supreme SX that I restored by myself (motor, interior, engine & paint)...ok I had some help with the beer drinking....lol :beers2:. I entered it in numerous car shows back then and won a few trophies...so I'm pretty familiar with alot of GM technology...althought dated I must say.... Firstly, I bought the used 350-4, an extra set of heads, a used (but in excellent condition) Comp #268H cam & lifters, TA adj pushrods & a used TA intake all from board members so far to get me started. Thanks to Marc D, Mark S & Chris O for the good deals on parts purchased to date....:TU: Although my intention was not to do a low buck swap...it's looking that way as most major items purchased are used but so far in good shape. I'm also sure there is another thread of this engine swap (or similar)....but I'm in the mood to share my progress :Comp: and I like this board as most people sure seem like my kinda people! Feel free to offer any advice along the way and I'll probably ask for a bunch as I have found alot of very knowledgable people on this site. Ok here goes... First, I want to determine exactly what 350 I have so I know what I'm starting with...I have done a thread search for engine identification but have found them confusing....so here I go asking for help already!uzzled: LH exh manifold casting# 1243457 RH exh manifold casting# 1286336 intake# 1249169-3 (wont be using but would like to know if it is original to this motor) Dist# 11984 9K23 (this last # sequence may not mean anything) Block casting# 124748 (with an "X" off to the side) Deck stamping numbers# (between cylinder 1 & 3) 421 Heads casting# (that came with the motor) 1243452 Alternate heads# (look better than the ones above) 1242556 (these also have a "73" cast above the 1 or 8 cylinder, the other set have no numerals) Any help in identifying these numbers will be greatly appreciated! For those that help....if your ever up in Western Canada...I'll glady take you up north to my cabin for a great weekend of fishing...drinking..etc etc...:Brow: So far today I assembled my new hoist, engine stand & pretty much have the engine torn down...pics attached. Tomorrow I'll finish the tear down to see what the bearings look like... When I pulled the heads, I see oil on top of the pistons on each cylinder..ohh ohhh...may have to punch it .030"...but there is very little & I mean very little ridge at the top of the cylinder bores...so I dont think I need to bore it out....put will get a inside micrometer and check it. I have found a great deal on a older set of TA 10.25:1 .030" over pistons c/w rods...never used...for $300.00 USD. They are on the way (just in case)....so me thinks I'll get the block done and use them...nothing like more compression! The oil may have been squirted in the cylinders by the guy I bought it from prior to shipping...havnt checked with him yet....hell with it....I'm gunna get it punched! lolol Geez I'm rambling on...Thanks in advance with help on the casting numbers! Mark (aka Sparkdog) P.S. Is it just me or are there alot of members here with first name of Mark!
Re: My 64 Skylark 300 to 350 Swap Engine tear down complete... No sludge inside....doesnt look all that bad. Rod bearings look pretty good. When I pulled the crank....doooh....crank bearing on cap #1 is toast and so is the bearing on cap#4. Hmmmm....why would only these two surfaces be shot??? The other main bearings & crank journals look fine...just normal wear. Any master engine builders care to offer any ideas as to why?? Bent crank? Does this need to be line bored? Maybe some foreign matter got in and caused the damage....I o No:dunno Anyways, off to the machine shop for boring etc etc... Sparkdog
I think your block number is actually 1241748 which is a 72-80 block with the later style oiling system (which is better than the 68-71), re-check the intake number as 1249168 is a 75 engine but can not find 1249169, The X code onthe deck should be with another letter code which tells us the model year and compression the engine was built for. This really is not of much concern anyway since you are rebuilding but it is nice to know. 1243457 is a 71-74 ex. manifold but comon to find them on later engies as well. Looks like the engine was a 74 based onthe block and head numbers. You are in luck with your combo since you can run any 68-80 heads on your 350 whereas the 68-mid 72 engines need the early heads. More info down here about the details of the head castings (the second set of heads are 73 heads BTW): http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=122404&highlight=heads
Next........HELP Either I'm stoopid or .....dang it! alzheimers...lol I cant find a thread on rod & main bearing clearances for the 350. Can find the info for the 455's.... Any body help with a thread link Thanks in advance Mark PS that didn take long to ask for help....
Hey Sean! Thanks...:beer but is that a typo on the rod clearances? seems like alot of variation...? New update....looks like the used 350 I bought is cracked...ou: Do these bores look infected...lol..cracked to anybody out there??? I gave it a quick hone for clarity.... Is it possible these bores were or have been cracked for quite awhile? The member I bought it from, swears there was no evidence of this issue. Wouldnt water have shown up in the oil at some point between changes...Any experts have an opinion?? It'll help with the negotiations...lol I do have most other parts blasted, degreased, 2 coats hi temp primer, 2 coats hi temp "universal" red, 2 coats hi temp clear. All paint is "Plasti-Kote" brand if anyone is interested. And yes, some of you eagle eyes, will notice that the oil pan looks like crap. It does! It had alot of corrosion on it...me thinks the engine sat in some standing water for some of it's life. Time for a rum n coke... Mark
Yeah fixed it... I would stay to the loose side of these specs. Clearances by the book are as follows,main bearings .0004"-.0015",rod bearings .0005"-.0026",end play is .003"-.009".
don't look like cracks to me... looks like scoring on the cylinder walls.. bore and hone will take them out
Been busy...block being machined....almost ready for the swap. Need some advice....thanks in advance.. Should I swap the ST300 for a TH350? I want the switch pitch...great for cruising and racing...lol Can you get TH350 with a switch pitch converter? I already have a underdash switch so I can switch manually. Have left the original trans control switch in place for the kickdown. I want a simple swap (like the 300 to 350). Only major issue will be my 2 speed column shifter indicator lense. Guess I could take it out and make a new "PRND2L"...no big deal. Any member on this board a vendor?? Mark
The PRND21 is the only thing that did not go smooth on my swap. I have the SBB 350 with TH350. The combo is great, I just have to pay attention and make sure I'm in drive. Let me know what you figure out on the PRNDL
no switch pitch possible on a th350. the th350 is nice because of the extra low first gear compared to a st300 and they are stronger than a st300. I feel the same way you do about the switch pitch feature. it's hard to have a "regular " transmission after having a S.P
Mark, there was a BRF code 200r4 trans for sale cheap in Calgary, if you want to go with an OD. What gearing are you going to run? I would ditch the ST300. Use a THM350 if gearing is under 3.42, and use an OD if over 3.42. I couldn't be happier with my OD, now that I have the thing dialed in. I rev at 2100-2300 at hiway speeds with the 3.90 gears! Good job so far! Brian
Hey Brian Thx for the tip...but I hate to sound like an idiot...as I said in prev post...been a while since I've "done" a car. So Im only familiar with "old" tech...which to me is '60's n 70's GM technology....lol I dont know what the heck the BRF code is (other than it's a tranny code....probably a desireable one too?) ..let alone a 200r4 trans.uzzled: I havent scrapped the 1/2" thick original dealer installed undercoating off the diff to get the gear ratio...but am sure it's a 3.08 or lower...a real dog peg leg...but is great on the hwy...I do 60mph and rev exactly 2 grand with 70R14 tires. I'm sure interested in the 3.90's @ 21 to 23G:TU: May I be so bold to ask?...Can you enlighten me as what's involved?? I'd be forever in your debt...lol Mark
One cool thing about the modern 200r4 trans is that it has an electronic lockup converter so similar to the switch pitch you can launch the car at a higher rpm then lock up the converter once at speed. The difference is that there is only one stall speed BUT you can lock it up on the highway and have no slipping or extra heat in the trans. The BRF is a version of the 200R4 trans that is stronger and came in the Turbo Regals, also has better shift points vs a regular unit. The 200 r4 is within a 1/4 of the same length as the st-300 and th350, it also shares the same driveshaft spline count, ect which makes it an easy swap. Do a search on here and you will find lots of 200r4 swaps... here is a start: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=109774&highlight=200r4+swap
Do a search in the trans forum for "200r4" and it will keep you busy for hours. The 200r4 is an overdrive trans with a .67 OD ratio and they were used behind Buick 3.8 engines including the Grand National (BRF code for '87). It has the dual pattern bellhousing so it is a direct bolt up to a Buick small block. It is also the same length as an ST-300 and THM-350. It is a pretty easy swap. I did mine by myself with only a floor jack and 4 jack stands. There are some little details to look after, such as torque converter lock up and TV cable linkage, but there are kits for this. I would bet a Loonie that you have a 2.78 rear gear now, same as what I started with. If you keep that gear, a turbo 350 would be the easiest and cheapest. I wanted a performance gear ratio and decided on the overdrive. Good luck! Brian
Hey Sean & Brian Thx for the tips, info & advice!:TU: Im gunna keep the ST300 for now....tranny next year project. Time for an update.... All machine work done...block repainted & all parts ready to go....just itching to be assembled. So much for my low buck idea of a swap....wasnt expecting as much machine work...expected some, seeing as block was used...spent $2500 ou: I dont mind...least I know the motor will be good to go. And, the guy who runs the local machine shop (Precise Engines) is a great guy....he said...."wow looky here...an ole Buick 350!...havent done one of these for along time....hey Mark, no problems will make 'er nice n tight. I remember these dont like the chevby clearances". I said...well Im at the right place then! What do you guys think or what are the going rates for various machining operations where your located?uzzled: Here's what was done....invoice was itemized so it's easy to compare... degrease & magaflux..$118 bore & hone cylinders .040"..8 @ 29.95..$240 install TA cam bearings..$74 align main bores to set clearance..$48 degrease & inspect crank..$20 grind crank rods & mains .010" ..$190 resize connect rods..8 @ $26.25..$210 install old rods on new pistons..8 @ $16.75..$134 blueprint & balance complete rotating ass'y..$420.00 Then I spent another $1000 for more parts...lolol....10:1 .040" pistons, rings, .010" main bearings and a flexplate too...mine was cracked:rant: My weekends planned....off to the garage....."swoosh"... tight lines & good fishing Mark PS dont buy used pistons from guys that live near the ocean...look at what the salt air did to the 20+year old UNUSED TA 10.25:1 pistons:eek2:
Sunday morning update...(no golf this morning...it's raining....damn) Spent 6 hours yesterday (after golf...lol) assembling the 350. Didnt get it all done...but hey...been awhile since I've done one...so pretty good advancement non the less. Another 4 to 6 hours today and she'll me all assembled. Start pulling the 300 in the 'Lark on monday...so I hope to have the engine bay detailed be ready next weekend for the transplant. I think I got carried away with the red. What do you guys think?? Red or silver water pump???? Some how the chrome valve covers dont cut it....Maybe a set of TA cast alum covers would look better...I'm so friggin over budget now....why not! And a set of machined pullies would finish it off just right. If I remember correctly....isnt there a member or (vendor) here that makes them?? uzzled: Im sure I read another thread on these.....can anybody help me with the correct thread??? I'll post some more pics when it's all assembled....off to brunch with the family.... Drive for show n putt for dough Mark
