67 Riviera Drum Brakes: No Pedal, Straight to Floor

Discussion in 'The whoa and the sway.' started by johnriv67, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Hey everyone I have power brakes and I've just replaced all rubber hoses and the master cylinder(doesnt rule the master out from being broken too) and now I have absolutely no pedal. Any ideas as to why? I had strong front brakes before and no rears, now I have none at all. I have pedal when the car is off, but not very strong.

    Thanks everybody, you're the best
     
  2. john.schaefer77

    john.schaefer77 Well-Known Member

    I know you probably bench bled the master and then bled the entire system, but it sounds like air. I power bled mine with my Motive bleeder, after my wife "helped" me bleed the brakes. I told.her thanks for helping after she left I re-bled it. Make sure who is helping you knows what to do. It can be a pain if not!
     
  3. gsx455-4ever

    gsx455-4ever Gold Level Contributor

    Was master Cylinder bench bleed ? Was there fluid from all wheel cylinders when they were bleed. ?????
     
  4. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Yes I bench bled it weeks ago. All wheel cylinders had fluid, but much less from driverside rear, I think that one is on its last legs. However, when replacing the rear hoses, the rear bowl of the master cylinder lost all fluid. I would have thought I would lose only rear brakes, not the front too.
     
  5. buick64203

    buick64203 Just plum crazy Staff Member

    What master did you use? The A1 Cardone? Did you save your original?
     
  6. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Saved my original. It's a Bendix, stock
     
  7. buick64203

    buick64203 Just plum crazy Staff Member

    Just make sure the receiver cup in the back of the new master isn't deeper than the original one you took off. If it is, the piston in the booster will travel a lot before it hits the back of the master causing the pedal to be very low, almost to the floor. Been there, done that with a new master on my Riv. Took me 2 quarts of brake fluid and a couple hours to figure it out. I thought I was losing my mind.

    Check all your steel lines. makes sure there are no wet spots on the lines. The steel line going back to the rear of the car likes to rot out . Check each wheel cylinder by peeling back the rubber dust boots. Check for wetness. Wet/ leaking brake parts will attract dirt. so if you see a dirty wheel cylinder, its likely leaking. I also push each side of the wheel cylinder in to make sure its not frozen.
     
  8. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    I have the correct master, its only several weeks old, I'm sure of that, and the depth matches the old one.
    Also how do you even get to the wheel cylinder? That part has stumped me. I know it sounds foolish, but all I have is a floor jack and I'd like to do it right the first time.
     
  9. buick64203

    buick64203 Just plum crazy Staff Member

    You have to take the drums off. You can sneak them out sometimes without removing the shoes. Might be a good time to inspect/ clean and repack the front wheel bearings and replace the grease seals.
     
  10. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    I'm going to go read the service manual on how to remove drums. Its still over my head. Calipers are simple, but this is new for me
     
  11. buick64203

    buick64203 Just plum crazy Staff Member

    Rears are easy, they just pull right off. Fronts are a little more involved. Take the dust cap off. Under the dust cap is a castle nut and a cotter pin. Remove the cotter pin, then unscrew the nut. Remove the washer, then jiggle the drum a little and the front bearing will usually pop out enough to grab it. Take all the parts and stick them in the dust cap (keeps them clean and out of the way). Now just pull the drum off. The rear bearing and grease seal will still be in the drum though. Which is fine if you don't need to service the bearing

    Now, here's a trick to remove the rear bearing and grease seal together- Once the washer and front bearing are removed and before you pull the drum, take the castle nut and screw it back on the spindle. Them take the drum and yank- the castle nut will snag the rear bearing and seal. So when you pull the drum off, the bearing and seal will be hanging on the spindle.

    I usually take a plastic tub and fill it with a little mineral spirits. Put al the bearings in there and scrub them with a parts cleaning brush. Once clean, hit them with a little compressed air. Then re-pack
     
    johnriv67 likes this.
  12. telriv

    telriv Well-Known Member

    Where do you live in Ct???
     
  13. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Simsbury, about 2 minutes from the high school. Norwalk is quite near actually compared to some members
     
  14. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Rehoned and rebuilt driverside rear wheel cylinder, was puking fluid. Bled it and car now stops great. Thanks guys!

    EDIT: and hell I learned a lot doing it
     
    john.schaefer77 and Harlockssx like this.
  15. lemmy-67

    lemmy-67 Gold Level Contributor

    Glad you fixed it. My same rear wheel cylinder had leaky cups, too.
     
  16. johnriv67

    johnriv67 Well-Known Member

    Swear I wish I wrote down how I bled it.
     

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