72 SunCoupe 350 engine rebuild

I hear ya with the price. Is your cam a roller, what specs? Did TA recommend grooved cam bearings?

 

Ended up getting the TA 212 cam after numerous recommendations of people on various sites. Specs on page 60 of the TA catalog. Hydraulic lifter. And yes I got the grooved bearings also because of numerous recommendations from others. Also will be doing the oil mods on block and cover to increase the size of the passages

 

Todd, not to add another stone to your load, but you might want to insure that the heater core wasn't damaged during the big freeze. Maybe there was enough entrapped anti freeze in it to protect the core.

 

When I found the leak I ran the car for about 20 minutes so I'm guessing it wasn't leaking since I didn't see any water coming from it or inside the car. I'm going to cleanup and paint engine compartment while motors out and I can pressure test the heater core while I'm at it. Thanks for the reminder though

 

Parts list keeps getting longer. Found temp sending unit broken so it may not have even been working. So I'll get a new one and install with a "T' so I can also add the new gauges. Same for oil pressure. That way I keep the idiot lights. Rear trans seal is leaking too. And one U-joint (front one) appears to have slop. Does someone make new wiring harnesses for motor area? This one is greasy, grimy and has no wrap around it. Mostly bare wires. Other than than things are progressing.

 

Can someone tell me or show me how to remove the downshift cable? I removed the cable bolt but I only see a hook type wire and loop. Only a wire that goes into the trans...

 

You have to pull the wire out farther . It should be able to slide off the hook from trans which is just bent to have a spot to keep cable locked in place. Pull cable out and pull up on hook from inside trans.

 

Two big ole boxes of parts showed up from TA Performance yesterday. Even a few parts I didn't order. I'll have to call them today. Now if I can get the machine shop to cooperate alittle.

 

Finally got the engine/trans pulled today. Got trans disconnected and put away. And engine on stand. Started taking off intake and exhaust mans. Unfortunately I broke off two of the exhaust bolts. One with enough stud left to be able to grab it and one flush with the block. I have sprayed them down with Kroil penetrating spray in hopes they both come out easy. Also looks like the original valve cover gaskets as well. Very brittle and had leaked before from the look so it and all the silicone on them. Definitely the reason for all the oil all over the block and everything else.
Can someone point me to some threads regarding the rocker assemblies and or how to determne if they need changing or not. I purchased new Stage 1 springs, lifters and the TA 212 cam. But did not get the rocker arms, tubes, etc. Are there some type of rubber or plastic grommets I should be changing? Engine looks clean, rockers look clean, no sludge, no buildup. So it looks like it was fairly well taken care of.
Purchased a parts washer(a year or more ago) to help clean up some parts. What type of cleaner goes in them? Its a sink type with pump and brush.

 

Get two sets of the plastic rocker buttons from TA, or 16+extras from the parts store/rock auto. There are only 16 per bag from TA, so some more gives you room for some error. Put them in boiling water to soften them up, and warm up the shafts as well. Just use some pliers and break off the old buttons, being careful to not mar the shaft or break a rocker. I used a 12" 3/8 extension and a hammer to drive the buttons in. If you have the aluminum rockers, check for wear and tear, cracks, etc. They are marked left and right (relative to the valves themselves, not passenger/driver. LR LR LR L R, etc). If you have the stamped steel rockers, same thing, but they aren't marked. I think the steel ones are offset, so I'd test fit them on a naked unbuttoned shaft to check. I think you can buy those gallon or two buckets of industrial cleaner/degreaser for parts washers at most auto parts stores, if not larger hardware stores.

 

I’m letting the machine shop build up the engine to long block. I just need to ensure I have all the parts needed for them. Shafts and rockets look good to me. No plug gage or blockages I see. Stock rockers and assemblies

 

Hopefully you are choosing the pistons to be used or they will stuff in the cheapest set they can and you could end up with a 7:1 compression turd!

 

Very much appreciate all the assistance with my engine. Currently considering sealed power 340 P Pistons 10 to 1 Decking block and heads

 

Yeah, so here's where you're at buying the 340P pistons;

$378.99 for the 340P pistons
$150 to mill the deck of the block
$39.99 for rings
$100 to mill heads
$50 extra($90 total instead of the $40 set of Fel-pro) $$ for the steel shim head gaskets to try to get to 10:1 with your 10:1 pistons without having to get charged extra for milling more than .030" off of the deck.
$115 for custom length pushrods

For a grand total of $783.98

The $699.00 for the AutoTec piston and ring kit doesn't sound so bad now, does it? That's $84 more to try to make an inferior piston set get close to what it is rated for.

With only .030" taken off the deck and using the more expensive steel shim head gaskets, those pistons will probably still be under 10:1? If you have to take more than .030" off of the deck to hit the number you want, to get the compression you want then there is an additional charge of around another $100.

The deck and head surface would have to be REALLY bad for a Fel-Pro blue head gasket to NOT seal. Would have to be a block or heads that sat outside for about a year in a climate with rain for it to be that bad to have to be milled. Or overheated SO hot that the heads got warped, and that's REALLY hot to do that, about 300* F for about 20 miles when both of the gaskets blow at the same time.

You have to ask yourself, "do I want to give my $$ to the machine shop or do I want to spend my $$ on better pistons and rings"?

If you still don't understand, the AutoTec pistons can be ordered with the compression distance you need to get to a zero deck(I like .005" in the hole myself) the dish volume you need to get to the compression ratio you want. Basically a custom piston with an off the shelf price. That's what makes these so great, you can spend less on your build and get better results!

You also get with the AutoTec pistons is better thinner more modern rings. They run the thin rings on the new factory stuff so don't even think longevity will be effected with thinner rings, if anything you'll get better longevity with the thinner rings.

Going from the 5/64" rings(.078") to 1/16" rings(.062") will be .016" thinner per ring which is x2 per piston so .016" x 16 = .256" of less drag for every single RPM. So when your engine is idling @ even say 650 RPM, that is 166.4"(13.86') of less drag from the rings! Adds up quick and unleashes some free HP as well.

This is the last time I will try to explain this, GL.

 

Engine parts warehouse.
Sealed power pistons 340p30, clevite FB, clevite mb, ring set $278

Let me get cost for the block and head decking from the builder that way I have set cost.

Auto tech pistons work with my rods? My crank does not need turning. STD bearing sizes rods and mains

With the lighter pistons then I’d have to balance motor adding that cost

What compression ratio should I be shooting for??? I’m not building a track car. I’m building a regular driver. Guess I’m still confused with all this stuff

 

See above

 

If I went with the Autotec pistons what exactly would I need to do to make a short block.

What compression ratio should I be shooting for??? I’m not building a track car. I’m building a regular driver. Guess I’m still confused with all this stuff!!! Please remember this is hard to comprehend(a lot of variables) for someone rebuilding their first engine. Where as you guys have been doing this for many years. Sure wish I were closer to one of you guys....I'd take a road trip

Autotec pistons $699 No decking...How do I determine zero deck to even know which pistons to order?
Rings....come with Autotec's
Felpro composite gasket pn#? Price?
Stock rods?
Used Nascar rods? $100+ as pictured above... Will pins fit autotecs pistons? New pins? Resize rods to fit my crank? Resize cost? I know they won't just fit without modifications
Crank grind? None currently needed. Only polishing
Which rod bearings?
Which main bearings?

TA-212 Cam.................Already have
TA Stage 1 springs.......Already have And retainers
TA hyd lifters...............Already have
TA Dual Cam bearing..Already have
TA Oil pump................Already have booster plate and shim kit
5/8 oil pickup..............Already have
TA 3 position timing...Already have Double roller
Gasket kit....................Already have
Intake pan...................Already have
Freeze plugs................Already have
Timing cover seal........Already have
Neoprene rear seal.....Already have

Still have stock rocker assemblies and pushrods....Still need to order the new nylon buttons

Thanks everyone for the guidance. Sometimes(a lot of times) it take me longer to catch on. Especially since I'm new to all this rebuild stuff and trying to figure out how to do all this.

Todd

 

I didn't pull the piston price out of my, but I got the piston price from Summit;

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-340p30/recommendedparts/make/buick?prefilter=1

AutoTecs work with factory rods if that's what you want to use and with the factory stroke if that is what you want to run.

You should shoot for a compression ratio for the grade of gas you want to run.

You can still run 10:1 if you wanted to run 87 octane BUT you would need a pretty big duration cam with lots of overlap to bleed off some of that static compression to run 87 octane. On the other hand if the cam is to small with 10:1 static then you will need premium, possibly race gas.

I think you were interested in the TA 212 IIRC, you would need to run the dynamic calculator with that cam to figure out what gas you'll need with that cam if you want to be at 10:1, you might want to back it off to 9.5:1? I haven't ran the dynamic calculator with that cam but I know its not very big.

Maybe Larry the Wizard can post his link to that dynamic compression article with calculator at the end?

Engine shop isn't going to measure anything if you give them the pistons and cam to use, they are probably figuring you are doing the math because you're supplying the parts is my guess? Ask them what the exact compression ratio will end up at with those pistons after they mill the decks? Then ask what the dynamic compression will be with the cam you ordered?

IIRC you will need to run premium(91) with a dynamic between 7.5:1 to 8:1
IIRC midgrade(89) w/dynamic between 7 to 7.5
And so on, don't quote me on these numbers, they are from my CRS memory but I think they are somewhat close.

 

You should have it rebalanced anyway, so that cost should be considered a wash. Actually a bit more because having the factory rods balanced is separate from rotating assembly balancing and the factory rods aren't that great from the factory so that is a good idea to have done as well.

As for the crank and rod question, see post #59.

So you're committed to a cam, you need to know what the dynamic compression ratio will need to be to run the grade of gas you want to use.

It can be a bit overwhelming the first build learning the difference between static and dynamic compression, but once it clicks you'll be like man that wasn't as bad as I thought it was!

Static compression is what you get when you measure the space that is left over when the piston is at top dead center.

Dynamic compression is measured from the intake valve degree closing point of the cam, with dictates how much air fuel will be compressed.(basically)