Such as R12a. They claim to be a direct replacement for R12, with no compatibility problems. Thoughts?
Put Duracool in the 67 Sportwagon during the winter detailing effort. All the O rings needed to be replaced and the new green ones are required for Duracool. The end result is you can freeze your buns off so I bought more to use in another car.
I am sorry but that is not correct. No O-rings must be replaced. Only if yours are in bad condition. That goes if you are using R134a also. The replacement of O-rings is a scam brought on by A/C shops and parts companies to make more $$$.:beer
No it's not. It's cheap insurance, especially for a shop. Think about it. If you do an AC repair on a 10+ year old car and a week later the refrigerant leaks out due to a failed o-ring, who is the customer going to blame. Rubber orings in an AC system are like any other rubber part, they get old and unreliable. When speaking of conversion from R12, the newest original o-rings are 14 years old. Replacing them is just good repair practice. If you were rebuilding a motor or trans, would you reuse the old rubber seals? As for the green HBNR orings, they were developed to meet the EPA leakage standards when R12 was phased out. R134a is completely compatible with the old style black BNR, the new green orings just seal better. They are the next step in oring technology.
Well, what I meant was I do not see the point in taking apart good connections just to replace o-rings. I have reused REALLY old o-rings in my system and have never had a problem. Now if I had new O-rings on hand of course I would replace them, but breaking sealed connections seems silly to me.
First of all,don't waste your time charging a leak machine. Spend some time finding the leak before you decide to charge it up again. The green o ring thing is a bunch of bull but you should really go through the system to be sure your not leaking(why did your a/c run out?) I've tried a product called "Red Tec" and it works fine and is compatible with all a/c refrigerants. Also make sure to add oil to the system or you'll burn out the compressor!!
First of all,don't waste your time charging a leak machine. Spend some time finding the leak before you decide to charge it up again. The green o ring thing is a bunch of bull but you should really go through the system to be sure your not leaking(why did your a/c run out?) I've tried a product called "Red Tec" and it works fine and is compatible with all a/c refridgerants. Also make sure to add oil to the system or you'll burn out the compressor!! Sorry for the spelling,was in a hurry!!
I'm leery of R12 replacements that are combinations of various chemicals (propane, isobutane, etc). Problem is that some of the molecules are smaller than others, and will leak out at a different rate, leaving you with god-knows-what inside your a/c system. I looked into R12, R12 replacements, and R134a conversions a couple of years ago, and decided that the most cost-effective thing to do was convert to R134a. I adjusted the POA valve accordingly, and my a/c works every bit as well as it did with R12. I've got a parallel-flow condenser around here to swap in some day, and it'll work even better. Way easier to simply convert to R134a, especially with our old cars and their POA valves - which in spite of what GM says, CAN be adjusted to work very well with R134a. If you still want more cooling, upgrade your condenser to a modern parallel-flow small-tube type, they're generally 30% more efficient. Then you can get your system serviced anywhere you go. www.ackits.com has a really good discussion forum, a good selection of parts, and competitive prices.
Aah, a man after my own heart. Here, buy a beer on me..:dollar:. Matter of fact, here, have another...:dollar: The ACKITS (Arizona Mobile Air) forum, www.autoacforum.com is the best place for a DIYer to learn how to repair MVAC systems on the Internet, IMHO. Many of the fellows there are AC Professionals who know just what works and what doesn't. I've been a "member" of that forum for ~7 years and still rarely post. Even now my posts would only be ...Yep!...or,I agree!... or,Really??, I didn't know that.... I was a dealership Tech for 23 years, but have learned volumes about MVAC from that forum since leaving "the business" in 2003. I'm a Computer Geek these days, but I also have a very lucerative, part time MVAC business at home during the AC season here in Ohio. Why use the R-12 "alternative" blends and HCs when you have 2 similar, approved, viable, available, affordable (now) refrigerants that will work within a given system with little or no modification? I do have to give a nod to HC refrigerants. I won't/can't use them because I thnk they are unnecessary /and face stiff fines if I do use them, but they can work. And they work very well, so I'm told. Nailheadina67, of this forum, is the fellow to ask about HC refrigerants (Duracool, Red Tech, R12a, etc). He has used Duracool with much success and is a big proponent. He and I don't agree on refrigerants, but we agree on most other things. He's a straight up dude that knows his stuff, so who am I to argue? (I really want to check out his Riv some day too!)
Actually, the "redesign" of the O-rings was brought about by the Government (EPA). Along with phasing out R12, MVAC systems were required to be "tighter", with less ambient leakage. This led to the development of HBNR "green" orings and barrier hose (among many other things MVAC related).They do seal much better than BNR orings, so they are just the "next evolution" in O-ring technology. (There were never "incompatability" issues with R134a and the old BNR orings. This is just a very common misconception believed as truth in those confusing times) When the "Big Change" from R12-R134 came about, it was thought that the smaller R134a molecule would leak out faster than the R12 molecule through microscopic leaks and porosity of the hoses.(ambient leakage). It was all unproven territory at the time. While "green" orings and barrier hoses DO lead to a much tighter system , R134a is completely compatible with "old" systems (BNR orings and non-barrier hoses). The additional ambient leakage has now proven to be much less than originally thought. Almost a non-issue. There was NEVER a chemical compatability concern. The newer designs were required by the government for OEM R134a systems, but were never "required" for retrofitted R12 systems. At the time, green o-ring replacement was recommended for retrofits, along with barrier hose due to the fear of high "ambient leakage". Again, 14-15 years later, this has proven to be almost a non-issue. Today, the main reason to replace all of the O-rings (and hoses) in a converted R12 system is because of age!. The very newest R12 MVAC system is now 14-15 years old!! If you're repairing an R-12 system, why would you not at least replace $3 worth of O-rings??? GEEZE... Most of the vehicles discussed here are more than 30 years old.(1978) Do you trust 30+ year old radiator hoses, heater hoses, rubber fuel lines, rubber brake lines, engine gaskets, tires...?? Why on earth would you trust 30+ year old AC o-rings and hoses to do the job reliably?o No:
I'm gonna jump in with a question, I've heard that getting a used compressor is preferable to a rebuilt- get a new one if you can swing the $$$ ?Can someone answer, and also - if you were rebuilding an AC setup for one of our oldies ( its complete, just no cold air ) what would you replace in what order to get a good B@ll chillin breeze goin? Thanks! Robert1
Phil Leinbach wrote a very good comprehensive article a couple of years ago (July, 05). I think the secret is the "Variable Orifice Tube". I have read and used it (through my AC guy) each of 4 times to convert from R-12 to and have no complaints. :beers2: :TU: :beers2: Use your better judgement about "O" rings. Here is a link to Phils article: http://www.buickperformance.com/ac.htm "Stay Cool" LOL :laugh: :laugh: (Sorry, I just couldn't help myself) Jeff in SW FLA
I'll give my $.02 on this. A used A-6 will often be just fine with a shaft seal replacement, but I wouldn't touch a used R-4 with a 10 foot pole. I would prefer a "quality" reman A-6 compressor over used, and again, wouldn't trust a reman R-4 on any system with my name on the repair. (Used A-6s are often better than the "chain" parts store remans.) A new A-6 is nice if you can afford it, and a new R-4 is a must. JMHO. To get b@ll chillin results, you have to start with a system that was capable of that when new. There were some that just weren't all that great even then. For repairing an old system for best results: POA system w/A6: -Receiver/dryer (replace) -Expansion valve (replace) -All o-rings or connection seals (replace) -Fan clutch (replace with OEM or Heyden) -Test and adjust the POA -Flush the entire system -Verify or add a coolant shutoff to the heater plumbing -R-12 refrigerant CCOT system w/R4: -Compressor (replace) -Accumulator (replace) -Orifice tube (replace. Ford Blue tube if R134a) -All o-rings or connection seals (replace) -Fan clutch (replace with OEM or Heyden) -Replace cycling switch (adjust for R134a if used) -Flush the entire system -Verify or add a coolant shutoff to the heater plumbing -R12 refrigerant On either system, clean the evaporator and consider resealing all of the air doors in the "suitcase". On either system, consider having the hoses rebuilt for longevity. On either system if using R134a, consider a parallel flow condenser. That's what I'd do to get the best end result.
