I was hesitant to add on to an old thread that I have so I started a new one. Well I'm back to square one with my 65, back to engine research. As some heard how to desperation for thinking I was getting a good deal I bought a big black Cadillac 472 ended up being junk, I guess I should have never tried to put A non Buick engine inside of a Buick. I've started past threats where I've asked if I should put a 455 or 350 where many have said the 455 is "tight fit" but can anybody tell me tight where, where does this engine precent its problems in fitting in. What needed to be cut or removed? So I ended up with the list of engines I would want inside the 65 Skylark, because in the end I just want to go fast, I want to do Buick proud. So this is a list of the engines I am considering. Nailhead 401, 425. Big block 400, 430, 455. Can someone please inform me about deck height, how high is too high. Are all 401 nailhead built the same, for example is the 401 in a 65 GS the same as the 401 inside Buicks big cars when it comes down to pully and accessory placement, and oil pan. (This is an update it has nothing to do with Buick but In the time since I last posted I purchase myself Packard 55 Clipper 2 door hardtop 350 bucks.)
401s are pretty much the same, except oil pan/sump position. You need rear sump. I put a 401 in my 1964 and the 65 is nearly identical. You will nee the proper 65-66 Skylark/GS exhaust manifolds, the three part (each side) frame plates/engine plates and motor mounts. You may need to relocate the battery from the passenger side to the driver's side as the starter is on the driver's side on the nailhead. Radiator may be an issue, but that is something you can deal with later, just put that number in a column of "stuff I might have to spend money on" so you get a good ball park on the total cost. The 401 is a heavy chunk. I think they were made from heavy nickel meteorites and the nailheads weigh in at about 675 lbs, so the nose will be heavy and the under-steer noticeable. You said fast, so think brakes. Stock are really asking for white knuckles at red lights. You also may need to modify the engine and front harnesses. The nailhead is narrow, similar to the 300 V-8, so it fits well in the bay. A BBB and the 350 is wider so that starts impact things like the brake booster, especially if you go bigger and tandem master cylinder. You might have some clearencing with the steering shaft and box with the BBB/350, and manifolds to other components. Others who have done this will be able to add somethings. If you are a determined type, you can do it. Car people have stuffed some wild things in some tight places, and on some occasions, even engines in cars. It's a mixed bag trade-off from the "old days" of lots of guys doing stuff like this that you knew, and junk yards where you could get parts, and also measure, look at, and even carry a part from one to another to see if it was close and worth the effort, parts stores and machine shops that were good source of parts and information, to what we have now at our fingertips on the internet. (I'd give up the internet and all the LOLcats to go back to the old ways and availability...) Other things like shift linkage and driveshaft length and u-joint cap sizes will be a concern. If you go with a manual transmission, you have the GS specific multiple part Z-bar, the frame mount that is different than any other as well as the bell housing, required. I went with a hydraulic clutch to eliminate the whole Z-Bar bit, because I was missing a couple of pieces, and it was the simpler remedy. If you are not hung up on the period correct or specifics, then it is a good alternative. A non-nailhead manual would be an easier track. HTH as a start.
I don't know if you were aware of this, it in you neck of the woods.... http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/1965-buick-special-w-500-cad-6500.326054/
The sbb 350 would be the most economical and probably the easiest to find an engine to find a "runner". The 400/430/455 platform would be the most powerful with the potential to be the most expensive because of all the aftermarket parts available for it. The Nailhead platform would be the coolest, but most expensive to source the '65/'66 GS only unobtainium parts required to do the swap. I vote for a sbb 300 with a stroked sbb 350 crank with a set of eBay nascar take out rods so you have no less than 370 cubes from the 300, topped off with a set of ported TA Rover heads with a custom intake and a solid roller cam! While that is on the engine stand just throw the cheapest engine available probably a sbb 350 to drive it around while the "good" engine is being built. GL
I put a sbb 350 and th350 in my 64 last summer. Pretty much bolts in. Used the brackets and accessories from the 300. Transmission cross member fits, drive shaft fits. 350 is about 1-1/2 to 2" wider, but cleared everything. I used iron stock exhaust manifolds and 2-1/2" exhaust kit and down pipes from T/A Performance. Engine is heavier, and brought the front end down about 3/4", and that was even with fairly new front coil springs. You might plan on using heavier GS springs. I had to source 65 motor mounts and stands, but you should have that already. 64 and 65 are pretty close to the same. Radiator on 64 is downflow, and 65 is crossflow from what I understand, so not sure how that will play out.
Does the 300 like to rev high? When you compare it to a big block, what advantages does it have. Has anyone ever turbo'd or added no2. What would be the most expensive thing on a the 300 build. Or any possible ballpark hp/torque #'s. Is you day job an Engine builder because you seem to come up with recipes pretty fast? Thanks Mark for trying to save me a $ Heck no! I already got an LS type engine in my 01 silverado 5.3,. I want a carb and a distributor. I had a sbb350 and sold it a couple months ago. I was gonna put it in a 63 olds f85, same body style as a 63 skylark but I sold the olds and the motor. So hence square1. I remember you told me in another post about your 350 combo. Looks attractive to me at this point. I got alot of deciding to do still. Thanks everyone
Emotionally I'd go for the 401 or 425 because it can be installed with all factory parts and you will have a somewhat stock car when you are done. The downside is that some of these parts (think exhaust manifolds) are hard to find, and you will pay pretty much whatever the owner of them wants. I have said before that any engine that you can't hear run should be considered to be a core. Rebuilding a Nailhead is not something that should be taken lightly. Just because the shop can do a SBC or Ford doesn't qualify it to do a Nail. As a practical matter I think that I would install a 350 Buick, Olds, or (ugh) Chevy. Parts are available, and you will have a much lower bill when you are done. My interpretation of your original post is that you would like to have a big block between the rails; that's gonna cost ya.
I put a 330 olds in my 1964 Special, and built it to W-31. Had a 4 speed, 3.08 posi and ran like a scalded dog. Was a blast to drive. It was late 70s and I got the f-85 and a 70 Cutlass (both 4 door beaters) for $175 and paid $25 for the 4 speed. At the time, I could not find or afford a buick 350 or BBB, and the Olds was available. I knew the Olds was a strong base to start with and enough "speed tricks" and parts in the day to build it and save money. Everyone had a Chevy (GM crowd), and I wanted to do something different and all the folks telling me what I could not do and why sort of hit my "watch me" genes. It runs strong in my family. It was amazingly simple to pull off, and the engine fell in place and everything BOP'd like it was designed to do that. Compared to that, putting this nailhead and t-10 in my 64 Skylark (300/ST300) has been night and day. But, damn it feels good to push "hard" uphill. (When it's done...) Good luck on whatever route you take.
Hi, Any Buick would be my vote, all depends on end goal, sleeper, drag car, pro tooring, old school hot rod, I personally have a 401 in mine, lots of special parts as mentioned, my original plan was a 430. Figure out how you want to use the carand budget to work with, even a 300 4v stick is a good all around combo, pretty quick, good mpg, never going to be a rocket ship but nice, I have a 4 door with that combo. Regards,
Dear Nailhead Ronnie and V-8 Buick fans of fast and fun, You've gotten the key information about the options you have in order to stick with a Buick engine. Basically you need to decide how much effort you want to put into this project. By far the simplest engines to use are the small blocks. However, they are obviously limited in the power and torque they can produce. You need to decide if that would satisfy you or not. I think these engines are under-rated and with the new speed parts that are becoming available, the 350 is a very interesting engine to work with. However, new speed parts cost money. You need to ponder how much money you want to put into this project. The nailhead big-blocks and later Buick big-blocks require more work to install. However, the old saying applies: "There is no replacement for displacement." I think you need to think carefully about how much money you want to spend. I don't know how much effort you put into the Cadillac engine you got, but it appears to me that you were trying to pinch your pennies too much. I think you'll be much happier with a working 350 than a big-block that never worked reasonably because you didn't spend the money to make that happen. Time for you to do some soul searching and make up your own mind! Cheers, Edouard
