O.K., I don’t know which one of you is Gary but I thank ALL of you for the help! Buicksstage1 was correct, don’t overthink it. I was getting all uptight since I spent so much money (to me) on the car and it has so many issues. I collected my thoughts after reading everyone’s input and went out and pulled the thermostat all together to check for flow. Seemed as good a place as any to start troubleshooting. When I did, I left the radiator substantially empty from the fluid drainage to check it. I started her up then went to immediately start replacing fluid… slowly. The first thing I looked for was to see just how strong the flow was. It’s hard to describe so I took a pic and even a video of it. (Now if I can only figure out how to post it.) Still not thinking completely straight, I thought it odd that the now stronger streams coming out of the tubes were splayed in so many directions. Then I looked more closely (not that one needed to) and noticed the copious amounts of corrosion on each and every tube and surface! Viola! Radiator is grossly corroded and restricted! I started to notice a whitish film on the surface of the fluid inside the neck after a while. I’ve never seen this before, I’m guessing that that would be the corrosion braking up/dissolving with the stronger flow? Anyway, it was holding at 160 degrees so I let her idle for a while. When it didn’t start creeping up, I tried taking her up the block for a short run to see if she’d start overheating again. (Radiator cap was replaced after I filled the system all the way again and had replaced everything that I had removed.) I didn’t even get out of the driveway and it was up to 210 degrees. I pulled right back in and ordered a Champion Cooling model MC161 four-core aluminum radiator from Jeg’s with a guaranteed two-day delivery. So… With any luck, she’ll be one step closer to roadworthy on Thursday. I didn’t pull the shroud because I would have had to pull the fan/clutch/belts to get it off and I hope I found the problem already. (I worked midnights last night and am really dragging right about now.) The crank pulley is about 6 ¼” and the water pump pulley is about 5 ¾”. I think that would be good since it’s overdriven rather than underdriven? I’ll post again Thursday after I’ve put in the new radiator or if anything else comes up. Please feel free to burst my bubble if any of you see a flaw/flaws in my logic and again, THANKS TO ALL for helping out!
If the radiator is 4 core and aluminum, call and cancel the order. Aluminum radiators should only be 1 or 2 rows at maximum. They use bigger tubes to cool better. A 4 core aluminum radiator uses small tubes and would be inferior to the same radiator made in brass/copper. You want an aluminum radiator with 1 inch tubes minimum, 1 1/4" is better, 2 rows maximum.
http://www.jegs.com/i/Champion-Cooling-Systems/166/MC161/10002/-1 4 rows of 5/8" tubes. Waste of money. That is a copy of a brass/copper radiator. Brass/copper actually transfers heat better than aluminum, so the brass/copper radiator would actually be superior to this one. The biggest reason for using aluminum in radiators (besides weight reduction) is so you can use bigger tubes. Brass/copper is soft, so tube size can't be bigger than 5/8". Aluminum being stiffer can support tube sizes up to 1 1/2". More tube to fin contact, better cooling.
Hmmm... Here's the manufacturer's page: http://shop.championcooling.com/Per...968-1969-1970-1971-1972-Buick-Skylark-SKU-161 and here's Jeg's page: http://www.jegs.com/i/Champion-Cooling-Systems/166/MC161/10002/-1 It got good reviews and, one way or another, it's on the way... Considering what you said, I'll post here after it's in to give you an opinion.
Here's the next quandary: Considering a CW rotation of the distributor, (correct?) my present firing order is 1-4-5-7-2-3-8-6!?! Standing in front of the car, the plug wire going to No.1 is slightly to the right of the 12 o'clock position. I was checking the timing, as suggested, off the No.1 wire close to the plug and couldn't find the timing mark ANYWHERE so I checked the distributor. Judging by the cutout of the damper, I think it's close to 180 degrees off. HELP! I thought the car had a slight miss but the heating problem took precedence. WTF?!? Could this have been causing the heating problem and now how do I change the order? If I change the order, where do I start? Line up timing mark, line up No.1 plug wire then continue? I really don't want to start REALLY pulling things apart to find TDC-compression... Help! QUICKLY!!!
Proper fire order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. It does not matter where on the cap #1 is, as long as the firing order is followed CW around the cap, and the engine is statically timed to fire #1 on the compression stroke. The engine would not run 180* out. From the factory #1 is just CW of the point adjustment window on the cap. It is in the same area on the GM HEI cap. Seems strange that your engine would run with that firing order. Are you sure about the cylinder numbers? Driver's side front to back is 1, 3, 5, 7 and passenger side is 2, 4, 6, 8.
Top order is the correct one, I believe. The second row, I shifted the numbers, same order, to start with the 3rd cylinder. The third row is the actual firing order in the car now. Would it even start with only four correct sparks? It almost looks like a simple mistake of swapping 4-6 and 1-3. But if so, just switch them back or start renumbering with No.1 where it is. Remember, the timing mark on the damper is not showing up with the timing light.
1st and second lines are the same firing order. The engine fires on that order continuously. I have no idea how your engine could run with that 3rd firing order. #1 is driver's side front cylinder, right?
Latest and greatest- rewired distributor and got lucky. Timing is now set to 8-9 degrees with advance removed and plugged. upon plugging in vacuum advance, timing goes to 15 or so degrees I'd guess. The damper mark is way beyond the tab. Still idling rough though...
QUOTE="LARRY70GS, post: 2672247, member: 165"]1st and second lines are the same firing order.[/QUOTE] Yup, that's what I meant when I said that I shifted the numbers. I was looking for a pattern. I have no idea how it was running either. I'm hoping that once I get the new radiator in (and hopefully it'll be O.K.), that will solve my overheating problems. I'm terrible at the formatting but here are some pics of the shroud, pulleys water jacket inside the intake and inside the neck of the radiator.
Do your home work on Cowl hoods, you are partly correct. There is 2 high pressure spots, grill and windshield but our hoods are to close to the windshield to get that effect, look at cowl hoods and the gap. There is several test out there to support how fast you have to go to move air down that wide gap. Many say a factory hood on a chevelle don't start to work until 100mph, the camaro works better has it has a larger gap between the cowl and the windshield. I am not sure about the 100mph deal on the chevelle but I have seen testing on the base on the windshield.
Sounds like a plan... Larry, thanks for going back and forth with me this afternoon. I appreciate it.
Latest update: I put the new radiator in and put the thermostat back in at the same time. It fit almost perfectly. I just have to build up the top cushion blocks. There's about a 1/2" of clearance between the radiator and the cushions. Radiator is contained but can bounce up and down. After idling for about 15-20 minutes it stayed nice and cool (160-170). I watched the flow and it barely dribbled out of the tubes until I rev'ed up the engine. Even then the flow wasn't nearly as strong as what was coming out it the pics I posted yesterday with the old, corroded radiator and no thermostat. After idling, I sat in it, put it in reverse so there was a load on it but didn't move the car. Within 30 seconds it was up to 210. I put it in Park and it's down to 160-170 again. I went through this cycle a few times. Then, I pulled the thermostat again. The flow was still pitiful until I rev'ed it up. Then it had a decent flow. I took it up the road not even a 1/4 of a mile and the temp stayed at around 190. I'm afraid to take it any further 'cause I don't want to break down away from the house with it but more importantly, I don't want to overheat the engine. I'm thinking that there should be more flow than a dribble at idle. Also, the thermostat was opening. It was still open when I removed it. O.K. guys, back to you for comments/ideas...
I find it really unusual that the temperature climbs 40-50* in 30 seconds. If you aren't seeing good flow, I'd suspect the water pump. Maybe the impeller is corroded or the timing cover where the pump attaches is gouged. I'd still like to see compression test results. I'm wondering whether you have a head gasket problem allowing combustion gases into the cooling system. There is a test for that. It's called a block tester.
I was gonna take a video of it 'cause it surprised me too but it's been that quick the whole time. I've never seen an engine heat up so fast. Looks like I'm gonna replace the pump next. I hope I'm not throwing good money after bad... I don't have a compression tester otherwise I would have done it. I've never done one before... Never needed to. As for the video you posted, I don't have any gases bubbling through the overflow. Is there another way to use the block tester? And what do you think of just replacing the pump with a stock one. I really don't feel like spending $150-$200 and have no improvement.
You can rent a compression tester. The block tester is made to fit into the radiator opening. See the instructions, http://www.blocktester.com/instructions.htm https://mobiledistributorsupply.com/27145-block-tester-oem.html?gclid=CMbWzbnQotMCFYKLswodgdEBLw I would take the pump off first and see if it is damaged, then go from there.
Larry, I got the Block Tester today. I'll test it over the weekend or next week. Thanks for telling me about it. Today's update: I started with local driving from a cold start. She was fine with that, 160 max. I then went into local traffic with stop lights. After 3 or 4 stop lights, she was creeping up to the dangerous range again. She was around 210 when I got to my destination and I shut her down. When I came back to her, the gauge was still way up around 250+. As soon as I started her it went to 100-110. I got into stop and go traffic and she began creeping up again, just approaching 230 when traffic cleared. On the open highway at about 55 mph she was fine but every time I lifted off the gas pedal for any measurable time she'd begin creeping back up, 180-190 or so. After about 15 miles, I shut her down. She cooled down and the ride back was fine. At an indicated 75 mph she was nice and cool, sometimes even on the 100 pin of the gauge. When I came to a stop light on the highway, she crept up to 190 again. As soon as I started moving she went down. I got off the highway and into local traffic to go home, about a mile. By the time I was turning into the driveway, she was up to 230 and I shut her down. All of this is with a timing setting of 8-9 degrees with the vacuum disconnected like BuicksStage1 said. Water pump is on the way and should be in on Tuesday. To whomever reads this whether you respond or not, have a good weekend and a happy Easter!
