What's the deal? I've read so much about this stuff and still have no clue what to get. I've used bondo many times but I hear there are much better products now. I have some very minor things to do where some kind of filler will be needed. Screw holes and rust repair imperfections etc. What is the best stuff? What is glazing compound used for? Thanks guys.:3gears:
Glazing compound is used for very small imperfections. I am not expert but have heard Rage body filler products are very good. Check an Eastwood catalog or local body supply store. Not Auto zone which will sell the cheap garbage.
some of the better compounds I've used are Kittyhair, polyester putty and all-metal. Kittyhair is like a fiberglas resin compund that spreads and sands like bondo, but it's very strong, because it's fiberglas. All-metal is what I use for patch panel blends. It's an aluminum putty that it hard as metal, but is sandable. Polyester putty it a light glaze, and it used for finishing touches. Bondo brand is garbage. Go to a real auto body products store and spend a little more on quality repair materials. You'll pay more up front, but it'll be worth it in the long run to not have to re-do your repair. -Josh
Nick - If you're doing any filler over a panel that has been welded, do NOT put Bondo directly over it. It will bubble up rather quickly. Something about a reaction with the Bondo & the weld. Use something like MarGlass, DuraGlass, etc. It has a fiberglass type base and is much more durable....plus it's compatible with the welded parts too. Another thing to keep in mind.....how the filler is applied. I've seen guys just slap a bunch of it on and barely smooth things over. Later they're getting out graters and knocking off all the high spots, before they even get to use the DA sander. IMO, that's the 'make work program'. The smoother you can lay out the filler, the less sanding you'll have to do. Not to mention, the less filler you waste. Think of it kind of like doing the joints on drywall.....nice smooth even passes. As for glazing compound......that's old school. My brother uses a product called Icing. Looks like you're spreading pink icing. It goes on real nice and doesn't shrink back like glaze.
Maybe this will also help you: >"Glazing compound"--as referred to in the post immediately before this one (ie "avoid it")--he is referring to the old, lacquer-based one part (ie no catalyst is used) style glazing putty. This is/was used to fill fine scratches, pits, etc..basically stuff that was missed or needed to be slightly smoothed over prior to painting. The reason you should avoid this stuff is that, like lacquer paint, it has a lot of solvent in it (vs solids) and as the solvent evaporates the glazing putty, like lacquer, shrinks. >"The New Version Glazing Putty"---Not really new but I'll refer to it as such. This is the stuff like Icing, Dolphin Glaze (see--there's that word again!! --glaze), Evercoat Finishing Putties, etc. THESE USE A CATALYST, just like "bondo". These are just fine to use and won't shrink like the stuff I discussed above. These products are just like Rage, etc (the "regular" bondo type products) except I think they use a finer filler material (ie a finer talc I think vs regular bondos). So, they are supposed to be "smoother" after sanding and sand out to a finer finish. Be AWARE--these finer bodied Finishing Putties tend to catalyze FASTER than the regular bondo's will (again, I am using the word "bondo" to refer to all the stuff like Evercoat Rage, etc). So, don't go mixing up a massive amount and think you will have a bunch of time to spread it. Also....don't use less catalyst thinking this will give you more time to work with it. You want the stuff to catalyze and catalyze completely so use whatever amount they call for and just use it in smaller applications. If you are filling small pits, screw holes, etc this stuff should work just fine for you. If you can get to the backside of any hole you are filling it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get some sort of paint over the backside of the putty repair to really "seal it off". However, if you are filling screw holes and sanding both sides down in an effort the make the putty repair as thin as the surrounding sheetmetal I would rather weld those holes up. Sheetmetal is pretty thin and this stuff, in that thickness, isn't going to have a bunch of strength.
My friend's uncle loved Duraglass. You had to work it down quick because it hardened so well, but he liked how solid the repair was.
GO to a local autobody parts supplier and ask them what the shops are using . We use RAge Extreme in the shop about $25 a gallon . Like soda pop theres at least 20 different manufactures of Bondo or plastic filler .They may seam similair but have different sanding charteristics and some clog sandpaper faster than others .Glaze is basically a fine easier flowing type of bondo used to fill in rough jobs that wernt properly sanded . If your doing a quality job you will avoid it and be able to get a nice finish with a high build primer surfacer .
So, something like this should do the trick? HTML: https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/p-10285-12718.aspx
BTW...just thought I'd add that it was a leak that started this quest about 4 years ago, I am going to have a leak proof 65 now if it kills me..lol
Yes---that would do the trick...that is their regular "bondo", not their finer, "glazing or finishing putty". Possibly you could get it in quart cans to save a few $$. What you should do is after you have finished sanding this filler, get an air gun or air blower and go over the surface of the filler. You may find some pinholes that you didn't see when you were sanding (they fill up with the bondo dust so you can't see them). If you have any pinholes this is a good place to use some of Evercoat's finer glaziing bondo. To fill the pinholes you need to wipe over them with what is called a "tight wipe"...more pressure and you are leaving, at most, a very thin skim coat of the new filler over the already-in-place filler. You aren't trying to create any thickness or build....you are trying to force it DOWN INTO the pinholes.
I don't agree with much of anything here. 1. there are going to be a million shops that go out of business when they have to fix cars that have Rage Gold or an equivalent applied directly over a ground down mig stitch weld. Any production shop does this. I wouldn't use Bondo brand stuff on my wheelbarrow. FLUX CORE MAYBE? Never used that. 2. If you get your metal reasonably straight it shouldn't be difficult to apply the filler. If you don't/can't get it that straight then slap that crap on there good and thick. Put it in a cast they say. Throw away the cheese grater though, wait until the filler is ALMOST hard and go at it with a long board and some 40 grit paper. If it is too soft it will peel. Yes filler is expensive but time is money as well. If you do this right you will A: see where the filler wants to feather B: SAVE large amounts of time C: be able to DA this with some 80 grit and apply one nice coat of Metal Glaze-Dolphin-Icing or whatever brand good stuff you choose. DA the filler surface and especially the areas that it feathers into bare metal. I prefer to spend the majority of my time on the metal work. I can generally finish a repair faster than your average CAVE AND PAVE guy because by doing the metal work properly you aren't continuously filling low spots and hitting new high spots over and over. The modern quality fillers are amazing. I especially like that you can apply many of these finer finishing products over OE paints. This is nice because there are tons of paint prep druggies that haven't the foggiest notion on how to properly feather out the original paint job in prep for primer. My biggest pet peeve is seeing an edge in a finished paint jobou:
I agree with this except that if I do have a repair that I feel is finished in regular filler and I blow it off and find pinholes I will just block it out some more with 80 grit until I undercut the edges. Then I apply a nice skim coat of Evercoat Metal Glaze..(I think that is the name...could be a brain fart) and block this out for just a second with 80 just to level it and then finish it with at least 150. I just like to have one continuous patch of filler ready for primer. I always screw up and cut through to the first filler if I do it like Patton says. He is totally correct in that technique IMO but I just suck at it doing it that way. I always seem to cut through and find MORE pinholes!!! If you mix the finer stuff properly you rarely get pinholes in it. I like to be able to wave my arm over a painted panel and not see any distortion in the reflection. Getting tougher with these paint monkeys that like to take a DA with an interference pad on it to my bodywork!!!!!!
Very interesting. I'm going home today, and I'll take clear pictures of the ares I'm talking about. I also still need advice on brands of filler and metal glaze. Thanks all..
That brings to mind another trick I learned! For a large area on a flat panel, a wide 8 to 14 inch spackling knife can lay down a more even layer of filler than the typical 4" wide plastic applicator. Even the metal ones can flex a little to accommodate slight panel curvature. This works great on a hood, roof, or the flatter 1/4 panels. Of course, it would be useless on a car like a VW Beetle! As for application, I like to let the initial layer firm up, then use a cheese grater to get the contour close. Follow that with a very thin layer to fill the grooves from grating. Let harden, then sand with a long board. :TU:
Exactly what is it you didn't agree with? My brother has been a bodyman/painter since '87, so it's not like I pulled that stuff out of a barrel.
Ok, before you guys all start fighting over my thread, let me be real specific as to what it is exactly I'm looking to do. On the roof of my 65, I had molding running all around the edge and down around the back window. I had removed it and I am not putting it back. I'm going with a clean top. 1: I like the look better 2: I worry about leaks and rust down the road What's left over from the molding are two things. Several little steel nipples where mounting clips were and also several small screw holes from mounting brackets. There is also some light surface rust sneaking through. My plans is to strip the paint off the roof, down to the metal, grind or chisel off the nipples and fill the holes. The roof itself is very straight, I won't be using filler all over the place, just in the holes and grind marks where the nipples were depending on what the surface rust looks like underneath. I may be able to just sand it clean, if there is some rust pitting then I will need some filler or glaze for here also. I want to buy the best stuff for the job, if it's 35 dollars for a gallon of Rage Evercoat, and that's the best, than so be it. Should I also buy glazing compound as a top layer for pin holes? Or will alot of sanding and elbow grease do it? And thanks for all the input, I'm just really glad I have my 65 back and we all have something to talk about. :beer
"On the roof of my 65, I had molding running all around the edge and down around the back window. I had removed it and I am not putting it back. I'm going with a clean top. 1: I like the look better 2: I worry about leaks and rust down the road" I had a vinyl roof on my 67 and I took off the steel nipples as well, and filled the holes. I like the clean look and smooth sail panels. Since it was a temporary repair, because I'm just running around in black primer, we just filled the holes with putty. "My plans is to strip the paint off the roof, down to the metal, grind or chisel off the nipples and fill the holes. The roof itself is very straight, I won't be using filler all over the place, just in the holes and grind marks where the nipples were depending on what the surface rust looks like underneath. I may be able to just sand it clean, if there is some rust pitting then I will need some filler or glaze for here also." For the holes, the best thing for filling them is a welder. If you can spot weld them closed, that would be the best repair. If they are large holes, I've heard of 2 different methods of welding them. #1. Tape a piece of copper or aluminum to the backside of the hole, and then fill the hole with spot welds. Then remove the copper or aluminum. Steel doesn't stick to either of these metals, and keeps the back of the repair flat. Just make sure to treat the bare metal weld on the backside to prevent rust through later down the road. #2, do the same thing with a steel washer, if you aren't as concerned what the back side looks like. Again, treat the bare welds on the back. I don't care if you just spray paint them to keep them from rusting. "I want to buy the best stuff for the job, if it's 35 dollars for a gallon of Rage Evercoat, and that's the best, than so be it." I recommend All-metal if you don't have a welder. Fill the holes with it, then sand smooth. But everyone has their preferences. "Should I also buy glazing compound as a top layer for pin holes? Or will alot of sanding and elbow grease do it?" Minor pinholes should be fine if you use a heavy coat of primer. Lay on a few coats of primer, then block sand to see what work you have left to do. When you think everything it straight, wet sand the area to make everything as smooth as possible. -Josh
I think you should be able to get away with the finer-grained "glazing" stuff that we discussed above...and you can buy it in much smaller containers. I would definitely go with this on any grinding marks leftover from removing those trim mounting studs. Those were just spot welded on so............. DO NOT USE A CHISEL TO REMOVE THEM...you may just pull off more of the underlying metal than you really need to. Slowly grind them down...AND THEN you might be able to file off the last remaining part with a hand file and end up with NO NEED for filler in those spots. With an air driven die grinder, drill, etc you may gring a little too far....so why not go with some "low impact" tools (hand file) to finish them off and possibly save yourself....priming, filling, sanding, repriming, blocking, etc.....in all those spots (and there are probably a few). Don't create work where it may not be needed. Like mentioned above....some primer may be plenty sufficient to fill any small areas also. A little block sanding of those areas will tell you if you have completely leveled those spots. Screw holes......as you probably already know welding them up would be best but it sounds like the interior is in the car so that's out of the question. As I mentioned....a little dab of paint on the backside of wherever you fill those holes wouldn't hurt and......... >If the backside of the screw holes is accessible make sure and clean the underside of the sheetmetal around the holes so no rust will make its way up into the hole and outer metal. Again...clean and coat underside areas around holes if possible. The Rage Gold is fine stuff and you also won't go wrong with it....it just may be way more than you will ever need volume-wise. Finally, if you are using some good primer then consider PRIMING THE CLEAN BARE SHEETMETAL FIRST and then doing the plastic work over that. Another layer of insurance. What type primer are you planning on using on the bare metal? EDIT: If there's any rust left in any pits it will likely come back up at some point.
