moleary, no im not certain, my battery is in the trunk, but im running 0 gage welding cable to the starter and to ground. I also have 2 ground straps on the motor to the frame. slimfromnz: my heads were ported by Gessler, I don't think I have super thin walls or cracks, but I have no oil in my water, or water in my oil. Schurkey: my plug wires on #6 & #8 are sketchy, one of them came loose once and fell on the header pipe and fried a bit, so I wrapped it in vinyl tape, maybe spark is jumping between these 2?
Are you using copper for the entire ground path, or only short sections with the steel frame or body as the major part of the ground? Pretty much everyone who posts about starter problems and has the battery in the trunk is using the frame or the body as the ground path. Steel conductivity sucks. It's even worse on Unibody-type construction where the electrical path is restricted by the number of spot-welds in the body. Anything is possible. It's less likely than between #5 and #7, which are consecutive in the firing order, and next to each other on the engine--so lots of folks route the plug wires next to each other 'cause it looks pretty. You're best off to replace the burned boot(s), or the burned wire(s) anyway.
I would suggest to check your ring gear run out with a dial indicator. I have found a few O.E. M. and aftermarket to be over .050 out of round. When the engine is stock it will still work but add more compression and performance it can be a issue.
I have Kenne-Bell-recommended Rhodes lifters in my 12:1 c.r. GS400 because I am running a Window Rattler cam. Obviously, the lifters clatter on startup and at idle, because they are made to. My engine has always been really hard to re-start while it's still hot (sometimes the starter just lacks the cranking ability so I have to coast down a hill and pop the clutch with the trans in 4th gear to start it), and has always had a lot of pinging unless I used really high octane gas. It will also diesel forever after the ignition is turned off, unless I put the trans into gear and drop the clutch to kill it. I never thought about the possibility of the bleeding lifters breaking my starter--it's a stocker and has survived so far.
Ideally, yes. Same gauge as the positive side. Some folks claim they get by OK with the steel frame (or worse, a unibody) as part of the ground conductor. Until I see a voltage drop test while cranking, on THEIR VEHICLE, I don't believe it.
If you think about it, your battery was grounded to the block by design. If you don’t have it there now, I would bet you a box of beer that a cranking voltage drop test at the starter would reveal you are experiencing it, and runnning your ground back to the block from the trunk battery will solve your issues. It did mine! Use same size wire as positive. Cheers!
o.k yes, I am using 2/0 welding cable to go from battery (in trunk) to the starter, and with the same type of cable I am going from the battery up to a transmission to engine bolt. I also have 2 short ground cables going from the engine to the frame, I was asking if those need to be copper. markO I should do a voltage check during cranking? if so what should the parameters be?
I wouldnt want to see much under 10.6 at the stater.......not at the battery like most. its possable to have proper voltage there and low at the starter........I would put neg on battery and positive on starter big terminal.........then do it on the positive battery terminal and difference is voltage drop on the entire starter circuit from start to finish. just disable the ignition and you can crank for 7 or 8 seconds and get a good read from initial application and once motor gets rolling
Of course. You should also have ground cables to the body, as well as having them to the frame. Both the body and the frame should be grounded to the engine, which is then grounded to the negative terminal of the battery. Just like this illustration, except with the battery in the trunk, you'll need a long jumper wire for one of the meter leads, 'cause your leads are not likely to reach from the trunk to the starter. Any 18-gauge or larger wire is fine.
I would have run good hydraulic lifters. Not Rhoads since you have 12-1 compression. Also do not lock out timing. Keep a quick curve with a good amount of initial timing. Sounds like your throttle plates are open to far letting it run on after you shut it off.
For good cranking voltage run a wire from starter w a diode facing ignition. And it will meet with wire for 12v+ to ignition box. So you will have full voltage cranking and running. That is how I-run my cars. Anyone running leece Neville starters?
why do you say not to lock the firinging out????? to much initial makes it hard to start.....locked out with with box with start retard works very nicely. mine has been that way for many years, never had an issue. I have built probably a dozen street car setups through our shop. chevy, ford, olds, pontiac and used the same box and a locked out distributor. all have liked it. even had one 502 making about 600hp, had a nice roller cam but stil had just enough vacuum to run power brakes. he didnt want an msd box so we used a pertronix, did all we could to help it, but the idle would sometimes be good, sometimes not. after we put the locked out dizzy and box in. he no longer has to cover the gas at idle in gear with a/c on, in fact we were actually able to turn the idle down a little since it's so stable he also says he notices cooler temps in the summer around town. says he wishes he would had done it from the start one way some ppl run locked out with no box is use a switch to control power to the ignition, the kill power and get the motor cranking over the turn the power on. but to me once the power is applied the starter still fights full timing. with a 6520 box the starter only see 10-15ish timing in the motor......same as a normal swinging dizzy. the box will then apply full timing after the motor has popped off. you get the benefit of cranking at normal timing and having locked timing for better idle with a bigger cam
If you have EFI and want it to control timing, you lock out the mechanical timing in the distributor. I locked out mine years ago. Use it with the MSD Digital 6 and it's 20* crank retard. Runs at 34*, cranks at 14*. Works great, idles at 750 in gear, and runs nice and cool.
I forgot he efi, even more of reason to lock it out. same box I'm referring to. the msd 6520. mad now had 6al with start retard in the marine line up too I think
I see there are 2different cars here I read about. A 12-1rhoadslifter set up. Myself, I have a 13 to 1 car and use light springs in distributor. So far so good 6 years. Just a simple method. And for the efi car. Efi timing definitely controlled thru a locked distributor. If it controls that segment. Been reading how new throttle efi kits are used lately. W or without timing control. Lot of great info posted in this thread. It’s great to learn so much here. Thanks for all the ideas.
local starter shop rebuilt my old starter, got the starter back in, need to make sure the gears are meshing ok. since its a manual transmission, im having a hard time pulling out the starter gear, there is just no room, after I figure something out, i will do these voltage checks. ok shurkey, will do that moleary, I will.
Post a wiring diagram. If this is what I think it is, it's only part of the circuit, you've omitted the critical part, and the diode is only needed on starter solenoids that DON'T have an "R" terminal. I didn't know that Leece-Neville made starters to fit GM gasoline V-8 vehicles. Amazon shows some alternators, though.
