I might have to build a small block car in the near future. I'll be following Sean and others builds. Exciting times in the Buick community for sure! Cliff
Since its has to be machined having 2 size chamber options cnc machined would be a great choice . For the lower compression guys to get a bump along with airflow.
Yes, and I am hoping that they casted the heads so that they can be machined like the stage 2 heads as well with a sbc header bolt pattern option for finding headers fast that would fit very easily with very little or even no mods using the Chevy sister car application would be very cool! That would help to be able to install a sbb in other vehicles that never came with a sbb 350, like say a Chevy PU truck or perhaps an S-10 instead of doing the typical heavy sbc conversion because the aluminum headed and intake sbb 350 will weigh around 100 lbs less than a similarly equipped sbc engine. :Brow: A stage 2 version sbb head should help exhaust flow like the BBB counterpart does. That would be very helpful for the higher performance builds. I have written this years earlier, just hope that TA read what I wrote and are planning to be able to machine a stage 2 version from the same casting? ray: Derek
No, they will post pictures soon... Last time I posted information from TA there were people saying they wanted to hear to hear it from TA so we can be patient...
Derek, Sorry to say none of what you are hoping for will be possible. SBC headers would never fit because the angle and location of the exhaust ports is so different than the 350 Buick. The Stage 2 option is a little more possible but not out of the same casting. I would have to make another top side to the tooling. If I remember correctly, I might have made the water jacket able to work if we ever decided to go that direction. As for now, just want to finish what we started.
Very exciting news! I also would like to thank you for making another part for the Buick 350; but more importantly, a part that will no doubt be instrumental in putting the Buick 350 on the map for real. Arguably THE most important piece ever created for the Buick 350 is right here folks. I would be very interested in discovering the flow numbers on the runners at varying lifts when this information becomes available. I hope to be useful in helping others 'math out' powerful combinations using these heads, your dual plane and single plane intakes, and custom roller cams capable of taking full advantage of the flow potential these heads surely have. Dare I say that I foresee some more header options available for the Buick 350 after these heads are well established? A nice set of shorties with a wide range of applications seems to be on the horizon. Gary
Mike, by all means finish what you have there first. It is good to know that you "might have made the water jacket able to work if we ever decided to go that direction." "Might have", nudge nudge wink wink! :TU: Very cool that these are finally almost a reality! Thanks. The sbc header idea is for a stage 2 style exhaust port. With the angle corrected when shorting the exhaust runner while machining the heads to be a stage 2 it should be very possible. But if you don't, and if a stage 2 head is made I'm sure I can fab a set of adapters to make that happen for myself anyway, was just trying to be lazy(LOL). Shortening the exhaust exit will help bring the exhaust inboard closer to a sbc width, the only possible problem is the height of the exit and the straight in distance to the heads of the sbc header because they could get to close to the block before they could be bolted on? Also would need to know how high the exhaust ports are on a sbc vs. a sbb from a fixed point like the top of the frame rail or the bottom of the floor pan. The sbc and sbb exhaust ports are almost identical with basically the only differences being the angle, shape of port and bolt pattern being the differences. If a sbb sits lower in a frame than a sbc that puts the exhaust port fairly close to the same exit point that would be great and make it VERY easy to install a sbb ANYWHERE that a sbc was or can be installed into that has headers already available. Just sayin. Anyway, for future exploration possibly? Derek
I am sure there will be some shorty header options popping up once the heads are released and if well designed they will be perfect for most swaps.... Or just buy the turbo manifolds and have some real fun.... 8:1, alum heads, and turbos, will be more than most cars can handle...
Shorty headers would be a joke at the power level potential of the new heads if TA brings the goods. :Brow: Contrary to your belief, boosting isn't always the answer either. As for "most cars", they don't play in the sand box most of the builds I do play in, at Silver Lake Sand Dunes. Not many people want the hassle and extra cost of adding boost, well not for another 2 years or so anyway that a customer of mine is contemplating at that time, he possibly may want something that will make 1,000 HP reliably so perhaps a bit of boost then? A lot of the builds that I have been involved in lately are the spin to win type for the dunes. Don't need much low end torque there, to much and the tires just dig the vehicle in an instant hole! Mismatching the torque converter helps slow tire speed from a dead stop as well and on the plus side it gives better upper end where the RPM spends most of the time.(between 4,500 to 7,500! :eek2 Being able to use pump gas is a plus as well so the compression is usually set around 10.5:1 to 11.5:1 to be able to run on premium. Anyway, long tube headers are preferred when spinning more than 5,000 RPM, you know the RPM that most of the Buick crowd thinks is the RPM limit for a sbb 350. The old saying that "there is no replacement for displacement" is wrong. There are 2 replacements for displacement and that is boost and or RPM. A 358 cid nascar engines make around 850 HP N/A spinning the snot out that tiny displacement to get there, spin to win, you can't win if you don't play!! To be able to spin, an engine needs large diameter long tube headers available for the platform said engine will go into or the expense of making them may cause the owner of said vehicle to want to go with a different engine platform. If I was TA I wouldn't waste my time trying to make a few sets of sbb stage 2 headers(if they ever decide to make the stage 2 heads) for a couple of cars for those heads that would have to be priced much higher because of the limited purchasers for those. So instead of trying to make a couple sets of headers so people might want to spend their $$ on the stage 2 heads, tap into the VAST aftermarket already available headers so people don't have to hesitate to buy the heads. I would also start selling frame pad conversions to be able to easily transplant sbb 350 into other platforms that never came with one so I could sell more stage2 heads without having to worry about the headers. And yes, headers because not everyone wants to mess with boost. Derek
I have to disagree here Derek. Shorties have shown to have their place (especially with clearance issues), and can in some instances (even at higher RPMs) outperform full length headers in terms of powerband width. It's all about the tuning. These heads will have more applications than just all-out racing, though this is certainly where the intent is aimed. This means that shorties will have their place as well as more full length header options. This is not to say that shorties will always outperform full length headers or vice-versa. It depends on the application. What DOES matter is a wider variety of applications, and shorties will facilitate this. Static displacement can be offset by encouraging (scavenging, higher RPMs, increased VE, etc.) or forcing (turbos, superchargers, etc.) more air/fuel into the engine than would otherwise be permitted within a typical naturally aspirated environment. It's all about moving more air. The Buick 350 isn't 'limited' by anything other than its ability to move this air (not to mention how it moves it), so without extreme porting on iron heads or the upcoming aluminum heads, it does have a typical RPM limit as to where it performs best at. This is why the heads are a game changer so to speak. I'm just as excited as anyone to see these heads come into existence. So many people have been waiting so long for this dream to come true, and I love seeing this engine finally getting the attention and respect it deserves, whether it's a blueprinted stock engine all the way up to max effort racing. And yes (to use your logic) shorties, because not everyone wants a 10,000 RPM engine. But hey if they do, then get the biggest, longest, fattest tubes you can stuff under the hood and between/around the frame rails. You could even have a set of oval pipe primaries and collectors for better fitment. Gary
Most sbb 350 people only spin to 5,000 RPM! :eek2: LOL Anyway I was writing about IF and or when TA ever decided to make a stage 2 style sbb 350 head and the opportunity to design the exhaust exit to fit an already established aftermarket header to help them sell those heads easier and much more quantities. Derek
Hooray! If the roller rockers fit, then the architecture (I.E. location of valves, spring height, etc.) must be close enough to stock so existing TA products will cross over just fine. This is good news for me, I've had a set of coated stainless valves collecting dust for a while.
There will probably be bad news for you, but good news for anyone wanting to buy the new heads; From reading and remembering details from these head threads if I recall correctly I think I remember TA saying they want to use 11/32" valves like they have in their aluminum Rover heads which I believe are sbc to keep cost down and help with flow vs. using the bigger factory size 3/8" valves. But only TA knows exactly which size valves they will be using, but I doubt they will use the old outdated factory Buick design, we'll see? Who knows though maybe for a bit extra $$ they will offer them to fit the old style crappy valves? Derek
