***Buick 350 Alum Heads Update***

Discussion in 'Small Block Tech' started by sean Buick 76, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Yeah, good question for the peeps ready for heads, should they spend $$ to have factory castings ported and call it done, or are these close to being ready for sale?

    Sorry to say that the longer the delay, the more sales are being lost. If the delay was only weeks that wouldn't matter so much, BUT the delay has been years now and people need to know if it will be more years, months or will it be weeks?

    More weeks are waitable, not so much if in its going to be months or years for the ones ready now. A good porter can get the factory heads to flow enough to support 500 + HP with the right build so for a street/strip car most people will be happy with that and call it done if they spend the $$ on the port work that will only take weeks.
     
    Mart likes this.
  2. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs

    They should have had this done 10 years ago when I was 50 years old and there were more racers out there. I can't even get to the track everything else is taking up my time now.

    Those heads should have been done the moment the both 455 heads were made. In 2005 I would have bought them in a heartbeat.

    I think the gasoline prices have slowed a lot of people down race gas is 9.00$ a gal now and premium is at 3.50$.
    About 100.00$ to fill the car up with 5 gal of race gas and 15 gal of premium. How many time a month can you do this.

    In 2005 race gas was 3.50-4.00$ a gal and premium was 2.50 a gal.

    The race shop where I got my engine built he lost one of his longtime employees and now that owner has to do everything himself and he is over 60 also how long is he going to keep this up. He is having most people finish up the building process it takes too much of his time to do this.

    The support for the 350 is just not there from the parts perspective. Once Sonny Seal had that crash about 10 years ago now that 350 support died

    Our boy up both talked for 10 years and did nothing either. bought parts and showed pictures OH Boy.

    Just my 2c
     
    Harlockssx and Mart like this.
  3. Mark Demko

    Mark Demko Well-Known Member

    When I called to order my headers, I asked Tim about the heads, he said more than likely after the first of the year.
    Tim was saying the programs and such take time (you machinists know all the technicals) to write and execute then maybe change, plus everything else going on at TA that they're doing.
    Im running my irons for now, not the best combo for 11 to 1 comp. but I wanna drive my GS at least once before the snow flies:mad:
    I get what Guy is saying about non of us getting any younger, and costs going up.
    Were like a moving target, by the time the heads are ready, TA's target (us guys) are going to be farther down the line, they may miss us:(
    I don't want TA to get discourgaged, Im still going to buy a set when they're ready, I hope others do too:D
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
    Mart likes this.
  4. PGSS

    PGSS Gold Level Contributor

    Plus I would add a year or two with the initial learning and teething pains after they are finally released, unless that's why TA is taking so long to avoid most of the possible issues..
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  5. 72gs4spd

    72gs4spd Well-Known Member

    As long as my 350 stays together I'll wait, but I won't put a deposit on anything that could possibly take another year. If it was $100.00 it wouldn't matter but I have better use for $1400.00 right now and I think it's safe to say some people feel the same. Don't take me wrong way, I appreciate what TA has done for us and I do buy parts from them. I also want to see what else might become available once the heads do get into the hands of the right people.
     
    MrSony and 70skylark350 like this.
  6. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Well if they're having problems writing the program, hiring a machinist and so on and so on causing delays, why don't they just farm that part out to a shop that will write the program and machine the first sets of heads for them? They can have them sign a non-discl0sure agreement if they are afraid of "company secrets" getting exposed.

    Then they'll have a ready to run program they can import into their CNC mill, and all they'll need is a part loader after the first one passes QC.

    I know there are a whole bunch of shops in SE Michigan as well as shops spread out in the rest of the state that could do that for them and I'm sure there are a bunch more shops in other states as well that can do the same.
     
  7. Fox's Den

    Fox's Den 355Xrs

    I am with you guys and I probably will get them too even though the age is starting to catch up and I hope the reason is that TA wants to get them right the first time out. Plus I can't stop this I like to race and the track gets your blood cooking, go there and see what I mean.

    Sit there like John Force and wait for those yellow lights to drop, That is excitement baby.

    Signing a agreement may not mean much based on how people will still talk and maybe TA does not want to let any secrets get out on this, I don't blame them, they spent all that time and effort to put out the 455 head then Edelbrock finally comes out with their head and at a cheaper cost. Talk about a final stab at TA.

    I just wish this would take a bigger approach on getting this done.

    I guarantee that the head will make that Tarantula on top of the engine smoke to 7 grand.

    Ain't no sense in building a half a$$ street motor with this set up.

    That TA 510 cam I used to have in there will make that system Sizzle.
    You guys did not hear my engine when that cam was in there it sounded like a race 455 and was still loping at 2500 rpm.

    It had no problem spinning to 6400 rpm either and that was with the DP intake.

    Build accordingly and get the damn engine ready NOW for what is going to kick your a.......
     
  8. Dano

    Dano Platinum Level Contributor

    I heard from a friend today (you know who I'm talking about Derrick) that is ready to go and wants aluminum heads, but said ported cast iron will work for his HP goal if need be and he'll go that route rather than wait too long.

    Being in business and developing new products myself and having my customers or potential customers say the same things being said here, I do understand T/A's predicament. It's very frustrating - There's only so much time/resources avail. and it's so easy to have the best intentions and at the end of the day, this or that has to get pushed off until tomorrow then next thing you know, a week, a month, a year has gone by.

    I hope they're ready soon.
     
    Mark Demko likes this.
  9. Extended Power

    Extended Power Well-Known Member

    I'm happy we decided to stay with the stock heads for now.
    Haydn has been able to drive his car almost two summers. (Engine finished late last summer)
    It's the whole, "You can use it now, or wait" scenario.
    He has been able to cruise it, race it, dyno it, and show it. All things he would not be able to do, if we waited for the heads to be produced.
    Like mentioned before by others, my son is enjoying his car now...and this summer is pretty much done. We would not pull an engine apart now for a set of heads, just to park it for the winter.
    So maybe this is the way TA is looking at it. "Well, we missed this years Hot selling time period, so we may as well wait till late winter to finish them now."
    Too bad TA can't stop production of whatever is taking away from finishing these heads....there are just so many other options now that work very good...Buick or not...they are still available, and the longer they put these heads off, the more it hurts their sales.
     
    Harlockssx likes this.
  10. Swagon

    Swagon Well-Known Member

    Any updates on the heads? Mike said they were starting on the machining but that was a month ago.
     
  11. Dano

    Dano Platinum Level Contributor

    What kind of times is it running? Had thought about your build recently abd was wondering how it was running.
     
  12. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    I have a question for Mike.
    Actually it's a twofer. What's the chamber volume (yeah I could look back and find that one), what is the maximum chamber volume possible without hurting reliablity, and can TA mill the pocket for increased chamber volumes?

    (Note, the Rover heads have a chamber that is much too small for a 300 or 340. I'd really like the questions to apply to that head as well.)

    Jim
     
  13. TA Perf

    TA Perf Member

    We will be posting some pictures soon. Machine two more heads and I am working on just that, chamber volume. Currently as of yesterday they were at 54.5cc. Question for someone. What is an average chamber cc of a stock 350 head. I'm thinking it's 58cc, but it has been awhile.
    I'm hoping to get some out of box flow numbers today or tomorrow.
    The Rover chamber can be opened up without issue. Chamber is thick.
     
    MrSony likes this.
  14. gscalifornia

    gscalifornia Small blocks rule!!

    58cc is what i remember as well. I think the later 70s were 56cc.
     
    Taulbee2277 likes this.
  15. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    64cc would be nice so people could use flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs @ zero deck to get around 10:1 compression seeing how they will have a quench pad now. If it is even possible to get that many CCs without hurting flow?

    People wanting to use "stock" style pistons or the ones already there that are "stock" style, probably around 50cc would be good to get the squeeze up a bit without having to have excessive milling done.
     
  16. Swagon

    Swagon Well-Known Member

    Would it be possibly when you order the heads to have them milled to desired CC? pretty sure my heads are at 52/53cc right now. Or a couple of different CC's to choose from would be cool like 300ssb said
     
  17. Jim Blackwood

    Jim Blackwood Well-Known Member

    Thanks Mike, that does help.

    My +.050" 340 (350cid) came out at 10.6:1 with a 52cc chamber and a 22cc dish. (alloy 300 heads) To use a zero deck flat top would take a 74cc chamber, somewhat on the large size. Do you think that is possible without losing the quench pad? Lower compression would take even more (for forced induction). That's why I was asking about the limits.

    I think that head with about 75cc chambers would be pretty ideal for N/A builds if you could make them available with more than one chamber volume. Of course 52-58cc would also be good and would work as a direct replacement for stock. Pretty good chance I'll buy a set next year some time but I need to decide whether to put them on the 340 or the stroker 300 (also about 350 cid). I'd really like to build the 300 with flat tops, but I do understand if that is asking too much..
    Jim
     
  18. Julian

    Julian Well-Known Member

  19. TA Perf

    TA Perf Member

    Well, interesting. I have been working on getting the heads down from 66cc. I was wanting 55cc because the would bolt on some compression and with the aluminum head it can handle it. The idea of 66cc with a flat top is interesting but it will make it hard to get 12:1. It would be around 10.25:1 with 66cc. A 55cc chamber would be around 11.7:1. 52 cc would be around 12.2:1. a 55cc chamber with -15cc dish = around 10.2:1.
    I can leave more material on the deck as delivered and the customers can cut them. Also along with working on dropping the cc I'm trying to get the tip height up to 2.000" from 1.927". Was shooting for 2.040" but I think will end up between 2.000" and 2.025". This will allow for more choices of valve springs and cam sizes. Valve length I'm working with is 5.160. Stock 350 is 5.000. Stock 455 valves are 5.150. Yes, we should be able to install stock size 455 valves in these 350 heads. 2.0 int & 1.625 exh. The exhaust port flows very good with a 1.550" but were limited on what's available. Lots of 1.600 valves out there. Been working with 1.940 intakes so far. There is .090" between the valves with 1.940 and 1.60. This would allow a 2.050" intake and leave about .035" between the valves.
    1.940 - 1.550 = .115 1.940 - 1.600 = .090
    2.000 - 1.550 = .085 2.000 - 1.600 = .060 2.000 - 1.625 = .047
    2.020 - 1.550 = .075 2.020 - 1.600 = .050
    2.050 - 1.550 = .060 2.050 - 1.600 = .035
    2.080 -1.550 = .045 2.080 - 1.600 = .020
    2.100 - 1.550 = .035
    I have not tried a 2.100 valve in the head or to see if it would clear the bore yet. I'm thinking around 2.00" to 2.020" would be a upgrade to 1.940" intake valve size overall.
    I'm excited. I will try and get some picture posted asap.
     
    Julian, sriley531, MrSony and 4 others like this.
  20. 300sbb_overkill

    300sbb_overkill WWG1WGA. MAGA

    Sounds like you just want to do one size chambers? That would be ok if there is enough to mill off to get the smaller chambers, not sure how happy the guy that wants the smaller chambers will be though having to have their brand new heads milled?

    Here's what would be good about the bigger chambers, around 10:1 with flat tops with good quench, OR someone that wants to run a bunch of boost can get a piston with a D-shaped dish to take advantage of the quench pad and dome pistons can be made to get the compression up for the guys that want more without excessive milling.

    Right now with the small factory chambers(around 54 to 58cc) its hard to get the compression down with a piston at zero deck without a HUGE 30 + cc full dish for around 8.5 to 9.0:1!(for a boost engine) There is NO way to do a 30 + cc D-shaped inverted dome type dish with the smaller chambers but can with the bigger ones.

    So are you saying the valves are around 1.875" center to center distance? That's around .125" farther apart than the factory valve spacing. And if the valves are moved over more on the ex side to minimize intake shrouding and pushed to the centerline of the bore, those heads sound like they may hit a home run!

    BUT will the sbb 350 TA roller rockers still work with the new heads? Or was it a necessary evil to have to use different rockers to get them to flow?

    So what's the new valve angle?
     

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