Certified Stock "Qualifying Numbers"

ok , i guess not to the full letter of NHRA spec , bob k . 6pk super bee , nhra spec 906 head cc , 79.5 cc , certified at 81cc

jim s superbee ,head spec nhra 79.5 cc , certified at 80cc ...

did you miss the part where its PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE that 906 heads pulled off chrysler assembled engines were 90cc as the norm ?

 

jim , its more than a half point if you compare to as assembled by the factory stock engines , i have to guess that 10ccs out of a combustion chamber is going to chnage your compression more than a 1/2 point ?

i completely understand the whats going on here , and i am impressed at how fast many of the cars go .

what i question is how anyone can keep a straight face calling SOME OF THESE engines that certify''s using NHRA ALLOWED SPEC , FACTORY STOCK :Smarty:

 

I would of though that you would of complained about the .070 over bore before the cc chambers. If yo don't like the name........what would you call it? o No: Everything on it should have a part number from the manufacturer. The cams are suppose to be stock not NHRA stocker! Lets not forget that the cars are pushing 40 year for some and 50 years for others.

Jim

 

jim i don't know what to call it and for the uniformed the term factory stock works fine . i don't have personal knowledge of all chrysler built engines so i can't say how many are getting a boost for whatever reason NHRA chose .

oh , i did notice bob k. overbore , but i figure i'd get beat up over that also , so i didn't bother bringing it up ... its NOT a MAXED OUT race engine :error:

i do have an NHRA CHEATER cam (2 actually i might toss one in the dart before the new bullet goes in ?) , unfortunatly its the 1970 lift spec so i can't even ATTEMPT to sneak it thru a certify process :Brow: not that i would even attempt to have my junk certified , i don't own an enclosed trailer and have no desire to tow that far with the engine opened up , or to take it apart once i got there .

i have nothing to prove ... other than i can be an ass , and i proved that very well already :Brow: , i don't have to drive across the country to do that ...

 

tim , its only cheating if you get caught ... :Brow:

someone mentioned bore scoping the underside , thats beautiful , i can see it now , dan and crew under the car trying to look thru the drain plug to see if the wrist pins are the std wall thickness and if that is really a cast crank where a forged crank should reside o No:

i'm building it as we speak/type , the pistons will be here tomorrow , the rods should be done by the end of next week and in my hot little hands . its wonderful when theres a 20 gram difference between a set of rods , and they all came out of the same untouched engine :rant:

hopefully the valves will clear my NHRA ALLOWED DECK HEIGHT and NHRA 79.5 CC heads ou: might get me into the 13's

 

and i had to bring this back up , i was just doing as asked uzzled:

 

John,

You asked for it ... I didn't ......

You can go ahead and bring your gasket matched stuff to the race ...... And you will be WOWWED by the non-gasket matched BS that is running circles around you ..... crappy 383/440 drivers side manifolds in an A-Body or not ..... keep crying .... and they will keep coming ....... :Brow:

BlackGold: Do you need a roommate yet ??? Headers and gasket matching would be big fun in your little realm of fun ......... :grin:

 

John,

Build a simple stock motor, and have fun. I ain't that hard. .......

Don't worry about every one else .... Build it to have fun for you .......

Folks like BlackMold will build their 455 Olds motors to run slower than stock .... That will always be the case. Build your 383 with the proper deck height, proper everything else, and you will be a hit .... Believe me ......

 

casey , all i did was ask a simple question , is gasket matching allowed ? and yes the answer did surprise me . i just wanted to be sure before i attempted to straighten out the core shift and knock out the casting boogers of the only untouched manifold i have , i'm sure the manifold i had gessler port wouldn't pass the sniff test :error: .

all i did was break the sharp edge off the port openings caused by the machining process , oddly the manifold seems to fit better now on the engine it came off of .

i'm not as stupid as the questions sound or my crying may make me sound .

i'm still trying to find where i said i was building a world beater , if that was even remotely in the back of my mind a DART with a 383 wouldn't be even on the short list of cars to do it with , possibly not even a MOPAR .

it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know what is stock and what is STOCK ou:

 

An edge break is ok......but as you know an edge break is not a gasket match....which is not ok.

 

Sorry John. Didn't intend to call or insinuate you were an idiot. It's just over the years, there has been all kinds of speculation as to what "is really going on" with the quicker cars. The reality is, thru the Certification process, it has been proven time and time again that simple attention to detail is a HUGE portion of what makes one car quick, while another languishes. I'd love to see your GTS at a Pure Stock event. I'm sure you'd love it, and get hooked. :beer :TU:

 

i guess that all depends on how big and edge i want to BREAK :Brow:

 

Man, I try to sit back, watch, and enjoy the show, and the next thing I know I'm being equated to some slimey substance growing in Casey's shower. :shock: Can ya feel the love?

For the record:

1/ I didn't build my engine. I didn't even put the headers on it. Blame it all on the previous owner.

2/ I'd love to have a roommate. But she's got to have better legs than I presume John RR does. :Brow:

I understand where John is coming from. When I do get off my butt and build my engine, it will not only have headers but will be ported, gasket matched, etc. as well. I'd love to have a Puuuuuure Stock car like you Certified (crazy?) guys, but as long as I have only one car, I'll keep it the way *I* want it, not the way some rulebook says it has to be. If I build a Pure Stock car, it'll be the 3rd or 4th horse in the stable. Don't get me wrong, I love coming out to watch you guys. And I really respect you -- at least the ones who aren't cheating. :beer

 

John, I go back to what Casey, Brian and Jim have said. It really is not in bore or compression. It is in the setup. If you look back at my Challenger T/A that cert'd this last fall, I am well under Mother Mopars listing for my compression. If I recall correctly Dan measured me at 10.19 to 1. Far below the advertised 10.5 to 1. Yet I went 4+ tenths of a second faster than any small block Mopar before. Additionally, the cars motor was finished on Sunday, in car on Monday, left WI for MI on Monday cert'd on Tues. Test drove after it was cert'd for the first time. No tuning or other before hand. We put on the track for the first time on Friday. We never did get it fully correct, not to mention our stock replacement torque converter was flashing at 1800 rpm instead of its supposed 2400ish rpm one should be at. So we have lots left to get.

My motor if you look at Casey's post on it barely is changed at all. We have NHRA stock replacement piston's (read ultra heavy) that are .030 over. That is it. No thin head gasket, nothing. The .030 was mandated by the fact the car is 35 years old. There just is no getting around that issue. How many NOS blocks are out there that do not need a bore anyhow? And how many people can afford one?

Yet with out the car remotely dialed we went ok. With the last minute rush we did not hit our goal but now know our original goal was not low enough once it is fully sorted.

Also, look at my compression post on page whatever of this huge post. You get very little from it. You are better going with a basic .85 hp to 1.1 hp per cube scenario to see what gain you get from a well sceinced motor. Dan and I (together or apart) have dyno'd many pure stock motors and they have all fallen in that range. As a 383 was not a highly tweaked motor from the factory use the lower end of the spectrum you will likely be in that range.

Your motor at .9 hp per cube should be around 344.7 hp with a +.030 over bore you would be around 349.2 and with a +.060 bore you have 353.7 hp. This 9 hp is not making any car a rocket ship. That converts on our heavy stockers to a best improvement of at most 1 tenth.

Let's not get all worked up over such small nuances. Bob's bee is the best becuase he is the original owner and has been doing this on Woodward and the track since day one. No one out drives him. Plus he many times does not have the highest rear wheel hp done by Dan's slide rule at any given race for six pack cars.

Again the cheaters usually are not the fastest guys out there. They spend their time cheating to cover up for bad setup or poor driving. The fast guys are good at setup and driving hence they do not need to cheat.

Except Casey who always thinks I cheat :moonu: ! But that is just bad driving and setup on my part. :laugh:

Mark

 

It's all in fun ...... :beer :TU:

 

I agree Casey. I am smiling.

Bet you never thought this could be a contraversial thread. It sure has been the most fun to read in a long time.

John bring your runner setup nicely and we will all help you get dialed in to the track and driving these stockers. We really are one very nice family, a bit disfunctional but welcoming. People are very nice in sharing 90% of what it takes to go as fast as your combo allows. The last 10%, well no one wants to lose.

Do not worry about what you run or who runs faster. The fun is improving your combo year over year till you are satisfied with how quick your car goes. It really brings a nice feeling when you know you are maxed out. And if that means 100 out of 120 cars qualified faster who cares? You still are running the guy who qualified closest to you. It is about the fun, this is not the NSCA or NHRA. We are here to enjoy old cars. Not spend 50 grand to get 2 extra tenths of a second.

Mark

 

Well said Mark ! :TU:

You're still a cheater tho .....

 

I did it mmyyyyyyyy wwaayyyyyyy

I'm glad not everyone thinks that way......if everyone did we would not have sanctioned drag racing, circle track, off road or ANY type of organized motorsports people like to watch and participate in.

Hey, I think it's great you do the car the way you want and it doesn't bother me you want to hang onto your headers, however, even for bracket racing there is a rulebook. :TU:

 

Famous quotes:

"Why can't we all just get along?" Rodney King

"But I didn't inhale" Bill Clinton

"In the spirit of the rules" Casey Marks

"We'll have best of 3 shootouts" FAST committee

"If the glove don't fit, you gotta acquit" Johnny Cochran

"Burp, belch, what bridge?" Teddy Kennedy

"Giant sucking sound" Ross Perot (or was this also Bill Clinton?)

"Headers Suck" Brian Stefina

" Coon ass" Rob Clary

"I don't recall" Hillary Clinton

"What trim rings?" Tim Clary

"P & G'd" Jeff Sawruk

" long pants?" Dave Heilala

"P & G?".. former Buick Pure Stockers (and a few Mopars)

and now.......

"I won't build my car to fit anybody's rules" Black Gold

"I did it mmyyyyyyyy wwaayyyyyyy" Brian

Welcome to the club of famous quotes, Brians :bglasses: