Cooling systems and operating temps

Stupid cooling systems.

Tried each of these one at a time and failed:

-Increased drive pulley size, decreased water pump pulley size.
-160* high flow thermostat + water wetter.
-Added baffles, air dams and plugged up everything around the rad.
-Removed Vacuum advance

...it's still building heat at 210* water temp and 220* Oil temp running at about 50 MPH (80kph)

Next up, delete the electric fans and if that fails I'm throwing out the triple pass radiator.

The only good news is that it does a darn nice burnout...:3gears:

 

...maybe I missed something.... anyone see the problem?

 

Some success... it cools at speed now. Water temp holds at 160-180, oil temps hold at 220-225.

IChanged to a mechanical fan - no joy, but another backyard guy suggested I look for air bubbles - the only thing that makes sense. Reburped the car by jacking it up tot he point that the rear bumper was nearly on the ground and then "blurp"... "glug". ran fine at speed after that.

However... the idle temps climb steadily, shut down at 230 water, 220 oil. Even with the mech fan on there - no clutch. The should never seals as well with a mech fan, hoping that's all it is. I've gotten hold of twin merc fans that pull 25 amps (old fan pulled 5 amps) and it seems to have more air than the mech. Going to try an even smaller water pump pulley and these fans next.

 

Im not sure but i havent seen it posted what the set up of your motor this may be a determining factor. How much compression? What kind of gas you running? Did you try drilling a 2 or 3 small holes in thermostat so to allow small flow at all times? Compression could be a possible determining factor i have a 11:1 motor that is real touchy wit gas it will only run cool on quality grade 93. What octane fuel ers you running? Have you tried switching fuels? Also from that pic you posted that fan may not put out enough cfm4 you motor. How old is the radiator? Did you try flushing the radiator? Heres a simple yet overlookd prob do you have a good temp guage? sum guages go bad also where are you reading temp from out of the head front or back of intake all the spots may read diff. It sounds like your finding isues just thought these might be sum more for you think on.

 

...all good ideas, keep em coming...

Compression is 10.25-1 at 4300' altitude. ...engine ran at 180* on the dyno.

Hmmm, I have not checked the fuel but it's running on 93 octane with no pinging

Thermostat is a Mr Gasket 160 high flow with a single bypass hole.

There are 2 temp gauges (oil and water) both calibrated using a thermocouple.

The fan was definitely too small for this engine. I replaced it with a mechanical (1/3 out of shroud) this weekend just to be safe. Now that it is cooling at speed (found a stubborn air bubble) I can focus on the idle. Event he mechanical could not do the trick. Upping to 2800 CFM twin fans this weekend if all goes to plan...

 

Strong twin electrics generally due better than clutch fans at idle. Timeing often seems to be a factor with cooling problems. I did not have much luck with water wetter but on an older semi clogged up system RMI-25 worked wonders. I have been useing it on all my stuff for 5 years. A truely clean to the metal system transfers a lot more heat and makes your system as efficient as it can be. They have an excellent informative site.

 

I tested the fan thermostat I put in my car. it came on @ 185*,and went down to 170* worked flawlessly

 

...another week, another test.

I tried a set of twin electrics from a 94 mercury that pulled more than the lousy mechanical fan and had a nicer shroud.

Good news - temps finally hold at idle
Bad news - they hold at 225* Water, 240 oil* :af:

...onto the transmission cooler upgrade.

Maybe I should just carry a bucket of water around with me?

 

heck, 14k would talk Me out of My car

 

Sweet! Couple conditions though so that it matches the Wagon. I'll need you to drive it to Inuvik and Rio Gallergos. Also, weld on a Wagon tail end and arrange for me to live in the car while attending a university for a couple months. I'll also need to test drive the car across Canada at least a dozen times.

...let me know and I'll get a check cut :TU:

I honestly think it would be easier to crush the stupid thing and make it a coffee table. :blast:

your setup is not far off of mine though....are you running an external trans cooler? Which AL rad... 26" or 28"?

 

where do you have your fans get power from,
i suggest off alternater post with a relay to turn them on
maybe your not getting enuff electricity to them
alum radiators help.is your radiator old? it might be plugged
check your hoses when hot to see if they are collapsing .
is your andtifreeze a premix or are you adding water, you might have to much
ratio of antifreeze .
what size over bore on pistons? if 50 or 60 over it could be a problem

 

another problem could be carb to small or not tuned right. Forget all that it was tuned on a dyno stuff real world is that a car doesnt have tha air to move around and a dyno isnt ran for a hour or two

 

...nuther weekend, nuther failure.

Just tried it with the hood off. No difference in building temps or final shutdown temp.

Good suggestions guys...

Fan power is alternator fed with a 50A keyed power relay fan controller.
Fans are drawing 24-28A (factory rating)
Rad is a brand new 4 core 26" triple pass unit.
Hoses inspected visually at speed with a mirror. All fine. Reved to 4k in the shop, all fine.
60% water with 1 bottle of water wetter.
38 overbore.

...carb is an 800CFM quadrajet jetted way rich. I suppose it is possible that the carb or aircleaner are acting as a restriction...but that would cause it to run rich, not lean.

How rich does it need to be before it runs hot?

I think the radiator is now the top suspect. Although its brand new it's the only thing I cannot rule out...

Running out of ideas....wow this is starting to get depressing...

 

Hi Clint.

What stayed the same with this rebuild as the last one? I remember a while back you had some rod bearings that looked like they had been over heated. I'm just wondering if any problem you have now is somehow related to your problem last year? I'm grasping at straws here.

I agree, try the rad next.

Could your gauge or sender be inaccurate?

I wish I could help more buddy.

Ramin

 

Ramin (and everyone) the advice here helps a ton! Thanks!

You know, I am racking my brain over that exact issue "did i somehow cause all this mess with the installation". I've fried 2 engines in the last 2 years, and I'm the only common thread. The first engine came from a poor shop, the machining was analyzed by 2 separate shops and proved to be crap. The second engine was a stock 1970 I bought dirt cheap that had a rod knock on day 1.

...but maybe I am causing this somehow... :idea2:

The same

-Transmission. Switch Pitch 400...but it does have a new torque converter.
-Headers & exhaust - 2.5" mandrel all the way with x pipe
-Engine bay, rad support, and front cowling are all the same.
-Same distrib, but the builder recurved it
-Gauges... oil and water temp gauges
-Carb - increased the jets, otherwise the same.

Changed this time

-Engine, reputable builder, dynod, rechecked bearings, and dynod again.
-Water pump gasket was bad, had to change it before install. Flows fine...
-Rad - new 4 core triple pass unit.
-1/2" fuel lines
-Added a fuel pressure regulator + return line
-New rear end
-Increased fan capacity.

OK... so here's what's on the table for install troubles:

1. Fuel flow is buggered somehow (see pics). I built this system and tested it out, but could I be restricting flow somehow? I ruled it out before because if I close the choke at cold idle the sucker runs worse (a sure sign of running rich).

2. Vacuum leak someplace. Ruled this out by not hearing any whistling and I've been over the intake 3 or 4 times now.

3. Distributor. Timing set by the builder, but maybe I screwed up somehow? OK I know to take the vac advance off the intake port but I went from the carb anyways. The vac advance is working (it runs like crap at idle with it unplugged) and I tested it at speed with the vac advance off. No joy. Firing order is 18436572

4. Something I don't know or have not though of yet.

...pics of the whole install are attached, let play "what's wrong with this picture!" :laugh:

 

Use two vice grips to (1) pull the heater core out of the system to force all the coolant through the rad and (2) check the bypass the same way. Maybe the rad is restrictive enough that it's bypassing a lot of coolant back into the suction side of the water pump.

 

And check the timing yourself.

 

Ramin...good guess man! That got about 20 degrees. She held temperature steady at 200 water and 220 oil.

...that's the good news...

...the bad news is that I heard noise. Pulled the oil.... anyone want to buy a few litres of metallic colored oil?

 

That stinks man. What kind of noise (besides bad)?

 

Hi!
I'm using a 31x19 aluminum "Howe" rad ,and a oil cooler from a nascar team. Its pretty big! Those guys are great part sources they use stuff once and get rid of it! I never have gone over 185 and it takes about 20 minutes to get the oil temp up to 180 mind you my system uses 12 quarts! I modified the oil pan for more volume.( 8 quarts) Someone at the stock car track was nice enough to throw a rod at the front of a chev canton oil pan so I cut off the sump and grafted it to the buick pan. I figure I'll change the oil once a year whether it needs it or not!
I wonder if your problem is the electric fans? I'm using a 19" flexilite fan and the stock 307 shroud.
hope that helps?
Brad