ethanol gas

If you look at the Octane Supreme it says a 16 "point" increase for 1 gallon with 18 oz of that stuff. If it was the same as the Torco, it would be 15 "points" with only 6.4 oz for 1 gallon.(but the chart above clearly shows 15 octane numbers with the 6.4 oz for 1 gallon)

I would think that the "Octane Supreme" has a higher profit margin selling it as being the "same" as the Torco octane booster.

I don't know about anyone else but I would double check any information from a guy that refers to himself as "Wild Bill". LOL

Maybe ask "Wild Bill" for actual Torco, and not the stuff that is supposed to be the "same" as Torco. I think that ad for the Octane Supreme is using trickery by moving the decimal point behind the number and still calling them points instead of in front where it actually belongs. So I would say that 18 oz of that stuff only raises 1 gallon of gas's octane 1.6 or 93 to 94.6 octane.

And as for "feeling" the difference, unless the engine was vibrating from pinging and after the "booster" is mixed in the vibrating stops, the engine shouldn't feel any faster or slower. There is no more power in fuel with more octane than in fuel with less octane.

 

its made by the same company but its not the same, torco has no lead at all. when i used 91 octane non ethanol with supreme to get to 93 octane, it made way more power then ethanol 93. and how do account for the test Larry posted about a decrease of engine knock, surely adding .2 points for the test would not help knock one bit. call Bill and talk with him, he dos not not talk in circles and will give you straight answers.

 

I looked at the Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for both additives and they have entirely different ingredients. Lead additive is the main ingredient in Octane Supreme and MMT is one of the main ingredient in Torco. That makes it hard to compare their effectiveness although the rates you add them at are similar if it both were actual octane numbers. I also looked at the pail in the garage (next to the spoiled pail in the garage) and there was no mention of Kemco Co. anywhere: only Torco Industries. It is hard to say with so many watered down boosters out there. I just know what works for me and what modern era tuners recommend. There is also some documented support for Torco on some of the turbo and SC forums, but none of those people, including me, would do a back to back with a lead additive because of the damage it would do to O2 sensors and cats. I think we need to see some testing with an older car that runs well on leaded 100 and then see if there is a performance decrease or knock difference with octane supreme added at a 100 octane level. I have not seen them, but I have been concentrating on things that work in unleaded applications.

Cheryl

 

Sorry Joe, I'm just going by the misleading ad where they are using "points" of octane trying to make people believe they are numbers. I have no experience with the product so I can't say for sure if they are using misleading tactics or they are just as confused as most people are about octane booster marketing?

How did you measure it making more power? Dyno, QM track? Anyway 93 with ethanol in it if the air fuel ratio isn't adjusted for the ethanol in the fuel it isn't going to make as much power as pure gas will, even gas @ a lesser octane rating because the ethanol lowers the mixed fuel's BTU rating.

Octane is only for detonation resistance, 87 octane pure gas has the same BTUs as 110 octane pure gas race fuel does maybe even slightly more because it isn't diluted with the additives to raise the octane.(unless those additives have the same BTU ratings as gas? not sure)

The only time fuel with more octane will make more power is when the timing can be optimized keeping an engine with higher compression(or higher cylinder pressures) out of detonation.

 

^ don't forget more boost as well as timing with more octane.

 

Right, but Joe's car is N/A so didn't see the need to mention forced air.(didn't want to say boost so as not to be confused for octane boost or booster)

 

^ then I would suggest you not talk in absolutes!

Cheryl

 

There I fixed it for you, Sheldon!

Besides, adding boost basically raises compression.

 

First problem with "Ethanol in gasoline" is that people think there is this stuff called "gasoline".

Gasoline is like cookies. There's a thousand different recipes, and they don't all use the same ingredients. Each involves blending hydrocarbons together to make something that will burn, and then they add a heap of additives such as detergents, anti-vaporizing compounds, and octane-rating enhancers. The only reason consumers get a somewhat-standard product is because they're making so much of it.

So then you take "gasoline" which can be mixed-together from whatever odds 'n' ends the refinery has floating in their tank(s) at that time, and you put some Ethanol in it. And the Ethanol gets all the blame for every evil thing that ever happens after that. Nobody stops to think that the refinery has been playing games with the "gasoline" part of the equation, or with the "additive" part.

I've used ethanol-fortified gasoline since about 1980 or '81. I've used it in Rochester 2- and 4-barrel carbs, Holley 2- and 4-barrel carbs, Mikuni 1 and 3-barrel carbs, Keihin 1 barrel carbs, Small-engine carbs on lawn-mowers, snow-blowers, chain saws, weed-whackers and leaf-blowers. I've used engine driven fuel pumps, electric fuel pumps, and gravity-feed systems. I've run TBI and port fuel injection.

The small engines especially had hardening of the fuel hoses. I blame the fuel hoses not the ethanol. All the small-diameter fuel hose is "made in China" from the finest recycled dreck available.
All the anti-slosh foam in the gas tank of my generator rotted, and migrated to the carb. I blame the shitheads at Tecumsah for putting foam in the tank--not the ethanol.
I had significant water in the fuel tanks of the boat. I blame the marina where I bought the last "fill-up" before having problems--not the ethanol. I think their underground tanks--which would be lower than the water table, because-duh-the pumps are 2 feet above the water level of the lake--leaked.
Every year, I ruin an accelerator-pump diaphragm in the center carb of my Holley 3X2 system. I blame varnish on the accelerator pump anti-pullover weight for blocking the passage after sitting for six or eight months over the winter. Apparently I'm not smart enough to spray some solvent down the accelerator-pump passage to dissolve the varnish before starting the engine for the first time each spring. When I whack the throttle open to set the choke, the gasoline can't spray out the shooters, so the diaphragm rips instead.

Coming up on forty years of E-10, and I've got nothing I can definitively blame on the ethanol. Yet, other folks, with gasoline supplied by other refineries, have nothing but problems with "Ethanol". I think their gasoline supply has industrial waste mixed-in, and the Ethanol is getting the blame that the gasoline mix should be getting.



Ethanol in gasoline (E-10) is fine fuel. (E-15--E-85 is just silly.) E-10 is terrible environmental policy, food/farm policy, economic policy. It's a damned Intrusive Government boondoggle. It's policy because our Congress has been bribed by Big Agriculture and Big EnvironMENTALists. Government should quit subsidizing the infliction of Ethanol in the fuel supply, and they should quit mandating it's inclusion at all. Ethanol in fuel should be consumer-driven not jammed down our throats by boneheads "on the take". Consumers need to understand that "ethanol" is NOT a renewable resource, that for all intents and purposes it's just another fossil fuel because of the enormous amount of oil, natural gas, and coal needed to heat the fermentation vats, to transport the corn, and to fertilize the corn crop. So all the emissions "benefits" of cars burning ethanol-fortified fuel are offset by the emissions of the processing facility that makes the stuff. It's insane, but that's Government.

And we haven't even begun to discuss the tailpipe emissions of alcohol-burning vehicles because NOBODY including the friggin' EPA cares enough to research the matter. If word got out about formaldehyde in the exhaust, Big Ag stands to lose billions.

 

I often have to chuckle at the various tech posts in which consumers are brainwashed into believing the best of anything, including OUR interests are what's offered.
Pretty much any post exploring the various myths and fallacies escalates the topics well beyond tech or science to political and corporate motives.
Excellent info Schurkey.

 

Thanks for that Schurkey, it seems like it's the usual story, just follow the money and all will become obvious; obfuscate the trail so that they all remain oblivious.

 

I've used 89 octane ethanol in my 1966 electra since I've had it. It's been doing fine. Sometimes I'll run 93 octane with 5 gallons or so of 110 octane race fuel. (That nailhead sure does like that! I can be going 85 down the highway, floor the pedal and the car STILL puts me back in the seat!) BuT do you think I need to run ethanol free? Also the rubber fuel lines that come from my gas tank are starting to drip a little. It's probably the ethanol.....

 

How old are the rubber hoses?

If fuel is dripping out, air is being pulled in.

 

Most likely the original hoses. The car only has 43000 miles. It has 38850 when I got it in october 2017

 

If you have access to ethanol-free, I would recommend it! I think that is another reason why the inside of my original tank was so clean.

 

I have access to it but 87 costs the same as 89 does at the regular gas station. My car doesn't like 87. It'll kick over when you turn the key off.

 

The hoses on older cars were not designed for ethanol. Replacing them with hoses that are is a must.

 

I know this is an old thread, but I won't run ethanol in any old pre-1980s cars. My wife put ethanol in her 69 Camaro. She did this after we went through the entire car, and restoring almost everything. It caused rust in the fuel system. I had to rebuild the carburetor again and change the gas tank. Not pretty. I had premium, non ethanol gas in my 55, and after sitting for years, the gas wasn't the best, but the tank and carb are clean.