I had given my photo's and info to Arvid, the editor of MCR for use in the articles of my car and the Denny Manner Stage1, Stage2 article. And in return Arvid gave me some neat photo's and a couple old mags with Buicks in them. Anyway, I know this picture is on v8 somewheres, but I don't think in this quality...it came from Denny. So I thought I would share it here. For those that don't know this was referred as car #4085.
I am sure this is discussed and answered somewhere ... but I assume this car #4085 Stage 2 prototype/engineering mule was indeed a production GSX included in the count of '70 GSX's even though it was built for Buick Engineering. Is this correct?
That is a really good question. I would love to find the answer to that one. Did you notice the skylark style hood. Mark
This car was a test mule for Buick engineering and may not have been a production GSX. Buick engineering grabbed a few early production White Stage 1's and did all kinds of things to them. Two examples are Brad's prototype & John Chamberlains "Custom white interior" Show car. Duane PS. Where is the front spoiler?
Hmmm . . . Skylark hood, no spoiler, and completely blacked out center of the hood. Not so sure it rolled off the line as an X.
That hood from #4085 got transfer onto the Jones and Benisek red stage2 car. The date on the letter (april 1st of all dates!) on what to do with this car (and includes things about the Reynolds car) correlates with the production run of the GSX's. So who knows? I guess Denny may know? Duane, Do you think this car would have been an early "white" build car then in spring they engineered it to the stg2 GSX? BTW, my "white" car was not to many numbers off the two other ones...I think you said it looked like it could of been built around the same days.
The date I have of the "Inter-Departmental Memorandum" is dated April 1st. this was given to me from Denny.
That's because that's a Stage2 hood, not a gsx hood. This car was made as a prototype for the production run of a factory GS Stage2. There full intent was to produce 50 or more Stage2 cars.
Well, this #4085 starting a white Stage 1 car keeps it in line with another piece of Buick history ... the Flint Flyer, as I think it, too, was built as a white Stage 1 and then had the GSX equipment and paint added later. This is great Buick GS history. Also, I thought I read in a recent magazine article involving Dennis Manner and the Stage 1 & 2 development program that there was an original intended package of parts proposed for a possible production Stage 2. Was the "Stage 2" hood scoop part of this intended package?
Yes, I have that letter also. Denny mailed that to me a long time ago. In fact some of the pictures used and the copies of those letters came from me to help with that article. And in return they gave me some pictures...the one I shared here is from that deal.
Ken, Denny was also involved with the Nailhead dual quad project and "D" (large exhaust port) cylinder head for the 401 and 425's. It would be interesting if we could find out the history of these projects as well. This would be the beginning of the GS history. Please note the prototype exhaust manifolds of the "D" heads. The right side manifolds are similar to that of the production 455 engine. From the beginning, Buick engineers worked on improvement in exhaust flow. Thank you, Marty "D" heads "D" exhaust manifolds (2 versions) "X" code factory Buick aluminum (high rise) 2X4 intake manifold
"Duane, Do you think this car would have been an early "white" build car then in spring they engineered it to the stg2 GSX?" Guy, That is quite possible. I know from talking to Denny that engineering "bought" a few of these early cars and did all kinds of things to them. These were used to test all types of engine changes, and were kept around to use as cars to "ferry" people around. With the advent of the late production GSX, they called them "after sales" due to their introduction after the production year started, the car may have been sent to the paint shop for the spoiler/stripes. Why not put the baddest paint scheme on the baddest engine combination, sure seems like a no-brainer to me, especially with a bunch of "young" engineers being around.:laugh: The same thing happened with Brad's car over in design, it was used to develop different parts/ painting schemes. We know of at least one other "GSX iteration" before it was turned into the GSX "Show Car". Duane
In 1970 the Buick factory Stage 2 car in Guys photo was shipped from Flint to the GM training center in Burbank, California. Bill Trevor was the Buick instructor there and Dave Benisek and I had the privilege of drag strip testing the car at the Lions Dragstrip in Long Beach. The car was equipped with the Stage 2 engine, M21 four-speed, Kustom headers and a 4.78 posi rear end. We bolted a set of 9" M&H slicks on the car and as Dave recalls the best times were in the mid 11.80's at 117mph on a cool night. We drove the car to the track from Burbank several times, a distance of about 20 city miles and I remember that the rear end gave up during one quarter mile pass. We were fortunate that Bill Trevor had a spare on hand at the training center and a quick trip was arranged to retrieve it. We changed the rear end assembly in the staging lanes at Lions and were back in business for the night! Those were the days my friends, I wish I had some photos for you. Doug Jones
Wow! Very cool story Doug. Since the hood of that car ended up on your then red car. Is that where the rest of the Stage2 parts came from for your car? Arvid and I were speculating just this but never came up with an answer.
Guy, The only part of the car that we obtained from it was the hood. There was the special ring that supported the foam to seal the air cleaner to the hood, it snapped into the stock air cleaner base. I think it may have had an Olds part number tag on it. Trevor ordered a new set of Kustom headers for us as well as a new set of Stage 2 heads and titanium valves from engineering. He did not think much of the heads as they were not going to be a "factory" installed item because of the tubular header requirement and they easily destroyed spark plug wires from heat. Or possibly because they were not his idea, we will never know. I remember him telling the Capsel Brothers who were smart Buick mechanics that he would show them how to make the Stage 1 heads perform just as well. I remember they ported a set and the results were impressive at the track but after we put the Stage 2 heads on our car there was no keeping up with us. Doug
Wow, again good stuff Doug. Great history right here! Arvid, the gentleman that wrote the article on my car for MCR may do another one on your old car. And he's the type that really wants to get the histories correct. So I know he would love to have this info. And yes, I have a GM sticker still on my ring (its original non restored) but can't see any numbers anymore. Still trying to find out what gm car it came from. Again, thanks for the history lesson, this really means a lot! Guy
