I have heard that they are somewhat better untouched. But the way I look at it, once you grind on anything, everything changes. I understand the rules behind the part numbers and all that. But with all the work that is put into these cars to make them perform the way they do, I see no purpose in them. I just sold my ported 72' heads to fund a set of aluminums for the racecar. But I have my 67' and all the parts except the block(broke,not by me,lol)thus my question. I looked for a while for a real 67' 400" block and got sick of trying. Especially when I have a pile of about 15 bare 455" blocks sitting here to choose from. I am not interested in a numbers type of car. I want to try and do what the F.A.S.T. guys do on their tires. It can't be easy at all(!!!) and I like that type of stuff. The challenge to make it work. I'll have to think about this. Just wish there were some events closer to the midwest.
Hey Joel........ exactly when did this rule change take place?????? I begged,pleaded,sniveled about wanting to do the same thing as Dave Burn's is asking. 3 years ago I asked F.A.S.T. rule's if I could run a 455 block with my 400 head's in my 67 GS400, and the answer was NO,NO,NO! My argument at the time was that not allowing a 455 block for an increase in cubic inches was unfair to the guy's running a make(Buick) in comparison to the owner's of other make's(chevy&mopar) who have readily available and somewhat affordable stroker cranks. At the time of my question being answered NO , I decided to sell the car and move on. I tried to come and play ball with the F.A.S.T. crew o No: I'm glad to see you guy's changed your mind's on this ruling, it may just open a door to a whole new crowd, but I really wish this would have been changed a few years ago :ball: Nice to see F.A.S.T. developing easier to live with(simpler)rule's. Keep up the good work :TU: But now that you got my attention, and the wheel's are turning :Brow: What are the Big Block owner's going to do when someone show's up with a 400+ cubic inch small chevy and start's spankin' all the Big Block's :eek2:
As far as looking the same, I don't think a 283 or early 327 car could run a 350 or 400 block. Because the 283's and early 327's had a large road draft tube casting provision so they don't look the same as a 350/400. "This is only an opinion and not representative of the F.A.S.T. rules commitee" :laugh:
I dunno about FAST, but in Pure Stocks the block just has to be factory and only pump the right amount of cubes. Dan told us we could take any old 454 block, throw a 427 crank in it, top it with the right set of heads, intake, carb, and exhaust, and have a certifiable 427 for Paul's Impala.
From the F.A.S.T. Rules ...Engine: Must be factory correct*. Original OEM blocks only, or OEM replacement blocks if they duplicate the correct* vintage block in design, material, appearance, size and performance ..... That tells me ..... NO 350/400's in a 283/early 327 campaigned car. A road draft tube casting is different in DESIGN and APPEARANCE, per the above F.A.S.T. rules. :Smarty:
Casey, the oil fill tube can be faked by using the correct intake, I have seen plenty of those intakes on newer motors...... but the rear vent tube would be awful hard to fake.................. :Brow: whose flat top motor is that ?? :Brow:
I really want a definative answer if I can run a 4dr in the series. Getting a 289/302 block shouldn't be a problem though getting Mercury C5GE 289 heads are going to be a pain, then again the casting numbers are on the underside of the head under the exhaust ports and you have to take them off to see them. Could I run C5ZE Mustang 289 heads or could I run the C4GE or C6ZE heads. Basically to decode the castings 'C' is the casting decade, # is the year, 'G' and 'Z' are the model designators ('G' is a Comet head, 'Z' is a Mustang head), and the 'E' just means its an engine component. How much of that do I have to match to the original heads? Thanks,
Well crap, this seires sucks anyway....... no just kidding. Who's incharge of making the rules for this because I want to ask them. Also does anyone know enough to clarify the issue about heads? Thanks,
Head #'s You need to run the correct casting numbers on the heads,intake and exhaust manifolds. Carb also. My car came with a HOLLEY 850,list #4296.That's what I had to go out and find. Along with the 198 intake,074 heads.HOpe this helps.
The current FAST rules and Race Format went into effect right around January of 03, so the first race that was affected was The US 131 race in May 03. Along with the rules about the block and heads, you also need to read the tech proceedure in the race format so you know what will be teched. From the tech procedure section of the race format: Blocks will be checked for correct appearance. Casting #s of the manifolds and heads will be checked to the extent possible with out any disassembly. A valve cover bolt or similar bolt may be removed to check for correct head material. Head casting # s may be checked via valve cover removal at any time during the event, at the discretion of the tech officials. Any car that runs 11.70 or quicker any time during the event will be subject to a mandatory casting # check of the heads via valve cover removal if the casting # is under the valve cover There is also a definition of "correct" in the rules. NOTE: Throughout this rules document, all references to correct* acknowledge that it is proper for the year, make, model and horsepower claimed, for both the car and engine claimed. The car year, make, model, body style and engine combination must all have been produced and available to the general public in the year claimed, in an actual car. So we are telling you what will be checked. The heads and manifolds are a big deal, don't start with the wrong ones. But as you can see, there is some wiggle room on the block. If it's supposed to be a 400, and it looks likes a 400, and you say it's a 400, and the correct manifolds and heads are on it, we are not checking the block casting # to see if it might be a 455. Unless we suspect that it is a big bore, or raised cam, or some spray welded aluminum race block or some other way out thing. AS far as road draft tubebosses and stuff, no one from FAST is going to write you a cheaters manual on how to fool the tech guy. You are on your own there. :Brow:
I don't see how this is consistent, when -- at least for Oldsmobiles -- the block casting numbers (and letter) are staring you right in the face as soon as you pop the hood. There's no way an F block (455) can "appear like" a G block (small-bore 400) even if every external dimension is the same. So is it legal or not? I don't see any way around this for the Rules Committee other than to get very explicit with their language or else come up with an "Acceptable Substitution List" for the blocks.
Brian You might want to ask this exact question over on the Year One website.You may get a quicker answer to your question.
:laugh: :laugh: Uh ...... yea ....... Just DON'T include the words ..... "ZL-1" or " '64 Hemi" in any of your verbage. If you do, you will have entered a crime scene that you may never be able to get out of .... uzzled:
wow... I never thought I'd get this much discussion out of a simple question. Thanks for the link over to the YO FAST board so I can ask there. L-88, I saw that on there.... wow, never would have thought that it was going to be that bad, I can see the Hemi issue but I'm with you on the ZL-1, its as factory as any of the ZL-1 Camaros. Right now I'm busy trying to see if I can use an 89 Roller HO 302 block under some vintage heads. I have a feeling that somethings different on the surface though.
Good point, Brian, Thanks. It is one that we are currently working on clarifying. We are going over the rules and the Race Format with a fine tooth comb, plus we have polled the racers. Any problem areas that have been identified will be re-worded and clarified to make the intent as clear as we can. :Smarty: But regarding the Olds having the number right on the front, we still don't check it. o No:
It kinda comes down to: if the numbers are wrong or look wrong, change them and if the block is somehow shaped differently, change it. But it's not said explicitly. I think some folks don't want to invest the time and money unless it is black and white as to what is "factory appearing" lest they be bounced. And the scrutiny gets more intense the quicker you go.
